Exploring Washington State with John Tillison: Discovering the National Park System
This episode features a visit with John Tillison, also known as Park Ranger John.
John grew up in a military family, and moving to Washington state as a kid, he quickly fell in love with the state. He describes himself as the kid that was always outdoors. John spent time in Boy Scouts, achieving Eagle (and yes, our producer Todd agrees that Citizenship in the Community merit badge was a pain). The monthly camping trips with the Scouts introduced him to the many parks and wilderness areas of the state.
First day at work for the Washington State Parks? 101 degrees cleaning up garbage after a raccoon attack.
Here’s what I cover with John Tillison in this episode:
1. Exploring the Secret World of Park Rangers: A Day in the Life
2. Uncovering the History Behind National Parks and Affiliated Sites
3. Surviving Rattlesnake Bites and Other Outdoor Dangers
John has a wonderful website with tons of information about parks and special sites around Washington. Check it out at https://www.parkrangerjohn.com.
Park Ranger John Tillison Episode Transcript
Scott Cowan [00:00:04]:
Hello, friends, and welcome to the Exploring Washington State podcast. My name is Scott Cowan, and I am the host of the show. Each episode, I have a conversation with an interesting guest who is living in or from Washington State. These are casual conversations with real and interesting people. I think you’re gonna like the show. So let’s jump right in with today’s guest. So my guest today is John Tillison or otherwise known as Park Ranger John. John is in the Spokane area. and his website talks all about National Parks, National Sites. John, I have a blister from scrolling. through your site today. I was doing some research, and I have a blister. I’m gonna send you the bill for the Band Aid. That’s kind of how how much data you have on your site. So first off, amazing. And second of all, welcome. What I wanted to have you on for initially was to talk about our our national parks in Washington state because we’re all about Washington here. But before we go there, I’d I’d kinda like you to tell the audience a little bit of your backstory. But then it also if you if you would, because I learned something on your site today. There’s a whole lot more national parks and national, sites than I was aware of. So I’d love to know kind of the backstory of the National Park System and how that all came about. To Of course. To the best of your telling.
John Tillison [00:01:33]:
Well, first a little bit about me and my story is, you know, I had military family, so I, you know, my mom mom’s had a family from, Washington and Fairchilder horse based, you know, air force. And, so, I lived part of my life in Florida, Alabama when I was young, and then, came into Washington State, and I just fell in love with the area, you know, to love the outdoors. And, you know, I was Boy Scout going up, Eagles Scout going to him, all that stuff. I was I was a kid. I was always outdoors. You know?
Scott Cowan [00:02:03]:
Let me interrupt you. Let me interrupt you. What was the hardest badge for you to get?
John Tillison [00:02:08]:
it was something like citizenship in the community or something like that. And it was it was like a whole bunch of questions, and it took a lot time to get it done. No. I was
Scott Cowan [00:02:21]:
I was never involved in that, but the guy who’s my producer, he was an eagle scout, and then a good friend of mine, her son, was an eagle scout, and I’ve always been impressed with the amount of effort that it takes — Yes. — and commitment.
John Tillison [00:02:37]:
Yeah. And it is. But you know what? You know, at the same time, that’s where I’ve got my love without doors, partially, because, I mean, we had camping trips once a month. And, I mean, you know, and then, you know, summer camp and everything else. I mean, that was always course, and that’s just that was my thing. And, and then I, you know, I got a regular job, which was crazy, and, you know, I worked for so many years. I didn’t realize I never put 2+2 together about, hey. I could work outdoors, really. It’s a When that stumbled upon me, I went to college, and then I was all in. And, I went to Spooky Community College. I got my degree there. Went down w two. and, continue with education error. they ended up going to Park Ranger Academy up in Mount Vernon, at Scatter Valley College. K.
Scott Cowan [00:03:24]:
And then you
John Tillison [00:03:24]:
got a well known reputation program there. There’s only, I think, 1 or 2 of those in the entire US. Park Rangers for the National Academy for Park Rangers. a lot of the National Park Rangers aimed at from when they get a permanent job, they all end up going to Flexi, just like all federal law enforcement agencies do. and that’s a pretty intense program to go through. I mean, they go through the same thing. It’s like the FBI and everybody else does.
Scott Cowan [00:03:45]:
Wow.
John Tillison [00:03:46]:
Okay. So it’s it’s pretty intense. So, anyway, I got on and, I got applied and got on to Washington State Parks. And, Yeah. I was excited. I spent my my 1st day in Washington State Parks. It was May
Scott Cowan [00:04:00]:
1 1994,
John Tillison [00:04:02]:
and I could still remember that day, like his I was so excited the first day of the work, and I worked at a place called Sun Lake State Park. And, that first day, it was a 101 degrees outside. And I’d spend 8 hours cleaning garbage out of some Juniper trees where the raccoons have got into. So That was a good fun day at 1st day of work, but it determined way.
Scott Cowan [00:04:27]:
I was gonna say that would be memorable. Oh my gosh. Okay.
John Tillison [00:04:30]:
So I worked at, Sun Lake State Park, Lake Easton, up on Snoqualmie Pass, and the winter recreation
Scott Cowan [00:04:37]:
John Tillison [00:04:37]:
Mhmm.
Scott Cowan [00:04:37]:
John Tillison [00:04:38]:
the parks up there. went back to sunlight for another small step, then I worked in the, like, the blues area. So I worked in, The Columbia Plateau Trail is one of river corridors, and, then, it included police balls in step 2 before going to Riverside. and Mount Spokey and finish up a career. So I’ve now installed over the place.
Scott Cowan [00:05:01]:
Hey, you did.
John Tillison [00:05:01]:
And I’ve spent over 20 years in state parks. K. So Yeah. Yeah.
Scott Cowan [00:05:09]:
So as you transition to other state parks into into what you’re doing nowadays, I kind of almost seems like kind of like a natural progression going from the the the day to day being park ranger and the duties. You mentioned off off before recording the just the different at the Riverside the different type of duties you had versus saying in Lake Easton or somewhere else. Right? So
John Tillison [00:05:33]:
Right. Right.
Scott Cowan [00:05:33]:
So so you transitioned away from park ranger duties into talking about parks to honestly, it seems like a brilliant transition to me.
John Tillison [00:05:42]:
Well, it wasn’t a brilliant tran well, it turned out to be brilliant.
Scott Cowan [00:05:46]:
Okay.
John Tillison [00:05:46]:
At the time, it seemed like the end of the world to me.
Scott Cowan [00:05:49]:
Okay.
John Tillison [00:05:49]:
And and and the reason why I say it seemed like the end of the world is, when, in 2 1000 5th I think it’s December 2015 when he’s doing a regular training as law enforcement officers is doing defensive tactics. Well, I ended up getting my knee blown out. And it was bad enough that it was occurring. He entered. Mhmm. I mean, I got a permanent disability from it and everything. And, you know, you you know, when when you find a job that you really love and you’re passionate about, it’s pretty devastating.
Scott Cowan [00:06:21]:
Right. Yeah. The
John Tillison [00:06:22]:
my wife is the one brought up because she was she had already been blogging. She was, why don’t you start a blog and talk about it? And I was like, I feel like I still got a story to tell. Mhmm. And that’s how it started.
Scott Cowan [00:06:33]:
k.
John Tillison [00:06:34]:
And, that’s how it’s just led into this program.
Scott Cowan [00:06:37]:
Alright. Be before we move off of your career, I gotta ask you a couple of questions. Just out of doing to being a park ranger for all those years, you’ve gotta have a couple of stories that are too good to be true or unbelievable. Whatever. However you wanna say it. I mean, your first day was picking up trash from due to raccoons. share share a couple stories with us of a day in the life, if you will.
John Tillison [00:07:01]:
A day in the life. You know, there was no typical one day. I mean, one day you’re doing maintenance and, maybe cutting trees to doing road repair. I mean, we were like the road department, the sewer department, the water department, the building department, Yeah. We we don’t at all. We done the law enforcement. We done regular maintenance. I mean, and then we managed employees on top of it. So it was I mean, you know, you you were a jack of all trades in a way with the specialized skills too. So it was kinda crazy. but I loved it. Storage. Oh my gosh. I I could talk to your ear off.
Scott Cowan [00:07:39]:
I’m sure.
John Tillison [00:07:41]:
You know, and showing the stuff that I’ve done now, what I did in the past. I mean, I’m sure it would have got me trouble later, but I remember when I first ran out of the, I wasn’t even in Academy. I still a direct guy. You know, I got hired, you know, to clean the bathrooms and stuff, and I was working the late shift. I, you know, I couldn’t get anybody on the phone, and it was during a burn ban.
Scott Cowan [00:08:03]:
Mhmm.
John Tillison [00:08:04]:
And it was high fire danger, and I had a bunch of really, really intoxicated individuals. It was what does drink beer and have a big bonfire? And they wouldn’t listen to me. They wouldn’t listen to me. I couldn’t get no help. So I, just went ahead and went back to the fire pump or to it up to my work truck and started at, this about midnight, 1 o’clock in the morning. And, I just drove right up to the site. They didn’t see them because they were all just tubing all around a good time. And I put about 200 PSI of water on your campfire, Well, let’s just say when I when I got done, they were standing in a puddle, and I just seen the whites that are high is in her teeth because everything else is covered in soot from all the the smoke that it’s settled. And, and I didn’t have to say anything else, Davis. Okay. We without Lauren or welcome, Kenneth. they realized that they packed their stuff up and they went to bed. Oh my god.
Scott Cowan [00:09:07]:
So I have to I have to ask, What did your what did your boss say the next day?
John Tillison [00:09:13]:
Oh, I I didn’t tell anybody about that. Okay. You know, that’s some of the things that you just wouldn’t believe. You, you know, in people, again, they don’t pay attention. I always got asked all the time because I worked in the state country.
Scott Cowan [00:09:29]:
Okay.
John Tillison [00:09:30]:
How many people got bit by route states? That was a real common. Okay.
Scott Cowan [00:09:34]:
Was it? Is it?
John Tillison [00:09:35]:
I wanna let new four people in my career that got bit by upset. Okay. 3 of them were picking up and playing with them. so much more of my stories don’t pick up the play rattlesnakes. And the other guy was and talked to Keegan too, and he’s running through the desert at night with flip flops on the shorts and no flashlight. And, well, he ran across 1 and, you know, it made him do.
Scott Cowan [00:09:58]:
Well, I should almost I can almost feel sorry for that guy because that’s just just, you know, I’ll be politically incorrect and to say he was being stupid. Yeah. But the people picking them up and playing what?
John Tillison [00:10:11]:
So let me, you know, rattlesnakes are not, they’re not aggressive. You know, they’re they don’t wanna mess humans, and I’ve never seen that. And, in fact, they wanna just get away from us.
Scott Cowan [00:10:22]:
Right.
John Tillison [00:10:22]:
And, so, You know, like I said, I’ve seen hundreds of snakes in my life, and I’ve never seen a rattlesnake aggressive once in my life unless it’s cornered or something.
Scott Cowan [00:10:32]:
Mhmm.
John Tillison [00:10:33]:
And, And every person I’ve known has got bit. It was doing stupid things. Just just use a little common sense, and you’ll get out of here is what I’ve always said.
Scott Cowan [00:10:45]:
playing playing with rattlesnakes. Okay.
John Tillison [00:10:47]:
Now when they’re poisonous, you know, you shouldn’t try playing with them.
Scott Cowan [00:10:50]:
So — I guess the question I have. So four people, you you’re aware of four people kind of on in in your work related. were they all okay, or were they able to get treatment and be okay? Or — From all the
John Tillison [00:11:06]:
ones that I Yeah.
Scott Cowan [00:11:07]:
Okay.
John Tillison [00:11:07]:
I mean, rattlesnake bikes is very survival nowadays. I mean, it really is. You know, I mean, the main thing is to go ahead and get treatment. You know, you’re gonna have a bad few days you know.
Scott Cowan [00:11:17]:
Mhmm. Well, I mean, you can only blame yourself if you’re the one playing with this with the snake. Oh my gosh. Okay.
John Tillison [00:11:23]:
Exactly.
Scott Cowan [00:11:25]:
So When you started when you started your your site, call me blog, that I don’t know if that’s the right word anymore, but, you know, I’ll call it a site. you started your site, what what would what are the initial what’d you start with?
John Tillison [00:11:44]:
You know, when I decided, I wanted to do this. Like I said, I, you know, I kinda felt like I still had a story to tell. I felt like that, My job was quickly transitioning from when I had first started to do doing less more of what I’d call Yogi Bear stuff. Mhmm. The stuff I really enjoyed. I enjoyed interpretation. I really love meeting people and ballet, and it really started turning a lot more specialized in the law enforcement.
Scott Cowan [00:12:08]:
Mhmm.
John Tillison [00:12:08]:
And, I found myself doing that all the time. And, so I really missed the part of connecting with public. I, you know, I really enjoyed that. And, in my experience working parts for 20 years, what I’ve seen and what people were asking me day after day today or what they wanted, what they need and stuff, I would go to look. When I go to go camping or recreating myself, you know, I couldn’t find the information easily.
Scott Cowan [00:12:37]:
Mhmm.
John Tillison [00:12:37]:
You know, I mean, if you’re like a total part geek like myself, you know, you don’t mind going through the website and digging digging through 20 different tabs and trying to find the answer and stuff like that. I mean, yeah, this all part of the fun of the game to me, but, you know, But for somebody just wants to know, can they take their pet on this trail? Or, you know, well, is there WiFi right here in your campsite? Some of those things are next impossible to find out. And then if you call the campground, the odds on, you’re probably not gonna get ahold of somebody. and and it’s a big mystery. And it’s, you know, and we’re in the world today, just like me, I have my own website where I do things remotely. You know, if you have business, I mean, there’s a lot of people now that, you know, they have to stay connected. And, and that’s important. I mean, they might get away for a few hours, but they can’t go away multiple Thanks. So, I mean, that’s a that’s a very important thing for them to know.
Scott Cowan [00:13:31]:
Right. I also noticed in some of them, you have electric charging stations listed.
John Tillison [00:13:36]:
Yes.
Scott Cowan [00:13:36]:
You know? I mean,
John Tillison [00:13:37]:
yeah, I I I don’t know where you’re at. I think you’re in the Washington state. So you know that we’re, you know, our state’s pretty progressive, and, I mean, I’m seeing Tesla’s pop up everywhere now, you know, and, you know, electric vehicles are a big push for the forward future. Right. And,
Scott Cowan [00:13:53]:
Well, when they actually — —
John Tillison [00:13:54]:
become more and more important. Yeah.
Scott Cowan [00:13:56]:
So in in I live in Wenatchee, and and I was talking to a guy, Friday. our our link. It’s called link transit, the buses here. So the big buses, not the not the vans, not the airport shuttle style stuff with the big buses. They’re all electric now. and I’m Cowan, and he he’s a mechanic he’s working on. So I was how do they charge? And they were saying there’s a there’s a bus stop downtown. And when actually they actually have induction plates, that the bus just parks over and charges kinda like you’re like you’re charging your cell phone by setting yeah. And I was like Oh, wow. I was like, this is amazing to me. Anyway, you know, when actually’s going all in now, there’s some of the long routes that are going from, like, say, from when actually up to Chelan, that’s still diesel. And but the new buses that they’re getting have enough range and capacity that they’re gonna be able to do this, you know, ninety mile round trip, a hundred mile round trip multiple times in a day, with an electric bus.
John Tillison [00:14:54]:
That’s amazing.
Scott Cowan [00:14:55]:
But both deduction charging at the at the waiting stations. I’m like, I would have never known. Wow. But it’s genius. It is kinda it’s kinda cool. And you’re right. You see you see more and more of these electric vehicles. They’re not just Tesla’s I’m seeing a lot of Ford Mustang’s now the electric Mustang. and then Ford’s got their pickup truck. I think they stopped making right now for technical reasons, but the the point is the future looks like it’s gonna more of us are gonna be driving electric vehicles. and more of us are gonna take those electric vehicles to some of these these parks. And so —
John Tillison [00:15:29]:
Well, a lot of people send me emails, ask me questions. that’s one of the biggest questions I’m getting asked right now is about electric vehicles.
Scott Cowan [00:15:35]:
Really? Okay. Yeah. Totally off off. I would not have thought to ask this question, but you said I warned you. This is how it would go. How many emails are you getting a day from from from your audience?
John Tillison [00:15:45]:
It it really depends. Like, you know, I just come out in the wintertime, so it wasn’t quite as bad.
Scott Cowan [00:15:50]:
Mhmm.
John Tillison [00:15:50]:
But all of a sudden right now, that was her cat. We
Scott Cowan [00:15:58]:
shouldn’t laugh, but okay.
John Tillison [00:16:00]:
We have a cat when he feels like he’s being ignored. He’ll drop stuff. Oh my god.
Scott Cowan [00:16:04]:
We have a our dog our dog does that too. So and he’s a £120. So yeah.
John Tillison [00:16:09]:
So now everybody’s starting to jumping right back in. there’s certain planted trips. Mhmm.
Scott Cowan [00:16:14]:
And
John Tillison [00:16:14]:
that’s very important, I mean, especially if you’re wanting to lodging in the dash departure, you know, campsite, you know, you really need to be jumping on it and get the, you know, and even now, you know, some of the big national ports you got to, days reservations. I mean, because they’ve just got so popular is they couldn’t handle the capacity anymore.
Scott Cowan [00:16:32]:
Right.
John Tillison [00:16:32]:
So they went to, like, a lottery system or, you know, or, you know, a government system. So now people are starting to look, and I’m probably getting gee between my comments on social media and things probably 20 to 50 questions a day some days.
Scott Cowan [00:16:50]:
Wow. Okay. Good.
John Tillison [00:16:52]:
It’s Now I’ve got quite a few questions.
Scott Cowan [00:16:54]:
Alright. Alright. So from a let’s let’s go back to the the question I wanted you to answer at the beginning, which we got away from, but let’s talk about the National Park System. What when did the National Park System begin? And I guess the question that so here here’s these just you know, I could have done the research. It was more fun to just ask the questions. Be lazy. So when did the National Park System begin?
John Tillison [00:17:20]:
It began in just over a 100 years ago.
Scott Cowan [00:17:22]:
Okay.
John Tillison [00:17:23]:
And at first, designated national park was Yellowstone.
Scott Cowan [00:17:26]:
Okay. That was my — But
John Tillison [00:17:27]:
there’s actually a little bit of a backstory because yosemite was actually set back as a park. in the late 1800s before, Yellowstone was developed. So you can really say that yep, Yosemite was the first part really set aside.
Scott Cowan [00:17:46]:
Mhmm. Okay.
John Tillison [00:17:47]:
but it it was the first. And and they had their big 100 year celebration here, just a couple years ago.
Scott Cowan [00:17:54]:
Okay.
John Tillison [00:17:54]:
In the National Parks. And it had right around COVID time too, which was crazy. So, you know, all of a sudden, you have everybody that’s wanting to go out to parks. you know, social distance because that was the same thing we could do. Right?
Scott Cowan [00:18:04]:
Right.
John Tillison [00:18:05]:
And and then you have the 100 year anniversary for parks, and it’s just really exploded. on the scene. And, you know, and the other question I remember you asking, I I forgot about this because I got talking, is you asked about the number of parks I Yes. And you thought it was probably the 63 national parks. That’s what a lot of people think. 1st and, So what you got is you got the designated national parks. Mhmm. But you also have, like, national historic sites, national monuments, national historic places. National Lake Shores, National Sea Shores, military parks, there and what that comes down to, really is this kind of like a land use classification. k. It is how the parts gonna manage that area. Like, Cowan of them is, like, Lake Mead and, Lake Roosevelt. Both they were built with the dams. So they’re they’re their own separate, designation. but they they were put together because of the DM, like Lake Rosevelt in Washington up in, you know, Eastern Washington in Northern Cowan. And the lake was actually created after, Grant Cooley was built.
Scott Cowan [00:19:20]:
Mhmm.
John Tillison [00:19:21]:
and it created this huge lake behind it. It’s called Lake Roosevelt. Yep. He was a president that done the the signing for the, getting, Grant Cooley
Scott Cowan [00:19:31]:
— Right.
John Tillison [00:19:32]:
Roosevelt. Yeah. He he’s
Scott Cowan [00:19:33]:
got a lake out of it.
John Tillison [00:19:34]:
Yeah. He’s got a lake out of it. He got a name to lake out That’s it.
Scott Cowan [00:19:37]:
Right.
John Tillison [00:19:38]:
but, that’s how that would that’s so they manage that. It’s a little bit different. national seashores. you know, you’re looking at different things. You get a lot of beach access. You know, you got quite a few of them. It’s got forts and stuff like that. you know, so they’re managed a little bit different fishing, sand beach activities. the national parks are designed to protect the resource. And one of the biggest questions I always get to ask is about one part. the 1 or 2 parks that people always ask about, they, like, I didn’t really think it should be a national park. And, one of them is Mesquite National Park in Florida
Scott Cowan [00:20:14]:
John Tillison [00:20:15]:
k.
Scott Cowan [00:20:15]:
John Tillison [00:20:15]:
which protects over 90 percent water in biscayne Bay, and it actually protects lots of sea life. Amazing park. Which you actually understand what the park is and get explore
Scott Cowan [00:20:26]:
it. Mhmm.
John Tillison [00:20:27]:
Phenomenal part. One of my favorite parts in the system, actually, I really dig the place.
Scott Cowan [00:20:32]:
Okay.
John Tillison [00:20:32]:
And then the other one is a hot springs in, Arkansas. And that was set aside for the heat that was known as healing waters. Right. And even even back in the hay day, you know, even you had your criminals and stuff that would come in and, you know, go sit in the hot baths and the soaking bass is supposed to be healing water in it. but everybody just got along because he was just looking for the healing waters and bass and stuff.
Scott Cowan [00:20:57]:
Going back into, like, the 19 in the teens and the, you know, 19 10, 1920 era, the hot springs were, a lot of Major League Baseball teams would send their players there in in spring training, and they would they would sit in the hot springs is is is a way of getting their bodies back together for baseball season. Absolutely.
John Tillison [00:21:19]:
Yeah. Yes. I mean, these were really popular places. And I mean, it wasn’t cheap to go to them. I mean, it it was like a luxury thing to do.
Scott Cowan [00:21:25]:
Mhmm.
John Tillison [00:21:26]:
You know, some people, they would be, like, medically prescribed to go, you know, sit in the hot tubs and not, you know, and try to recuperate stuff. but that’s what it’s protection for. It’s protection of water. And even today, you can go to Hot Springs National Park, and they even have spigots where you can go in and jug some water and get water. I mean, that’s that’s their that’s their thing as they protect the water’s resource. K. So there’s always something there The parts are there for a reason. They’re protecting something.
Scott Cowan [00:21:55]:
So I was as I was looking through here, so where where this question for me came up, was you talk about the Whitman in near Wallawala, it Whitman historical site.
John Tillison [00:22:07]:
Yes. So
Scott Cowan [00:22:10]:
Now is that man so the Whitman historical site, is that managed at the federal level then?
John Tillison [00:22:15]:
It’s all under the National Park System. It’s just that that land was classified as a historical site. Okay. So it was like a national monument. So it’ll be like, like, a building or a statue or something that commemorates something.
Scott Cowan [00:22:28]:
Right.
John Tillison [00:22:29]:
So and then you’ve got some that are like national historical part, and it that’s a bigger step up because they have multiple buildings or multiple things. So, like, Martin Luther King Junior is a great example. It’s a national historical part because it’s got their business centers got the, the Ebanese or church right there. You got, you know, Martin Luther King’s birthplace home and, you know, the the fire department right there where he used to play on the backup and stuff like that. Okay. You know, and he’s got they got the pawns and stuff like that. So that they have multiple things going on. But like a historical site, you go to the some of the sites, some of the old ports in the Midwest that were you know, when people are moving out west or afraid of Native Americans, they’re they’re just like a cafeteria or something, you know, and that’ll be about it.
Scott Cowan [00:23:18]:
Yeah. There’s one my wife’s family stays at in Nebraska. Wanna say by Oh, gosh. She went last summer, and I can’t remember it, but it’s a it’s a they say in the barracks. They’re the they turn the barracks into accommodations.
John Tillison [00:23:35]:
Right. Okay.
Scott Cowan [00:23:35]:
I wanna say Smith. But, I mean —
John Tillison [00:23:37]:
Fort Smith, maybe?
Scott Cowan [00:23:39]:
I I think that’s it. It’s — That
John Tillison [00:23:40]:
sounds good. Yeah.
Scott Cowan [00:23:41]:
Could be. It’s it’s a very generic name, if you will, you know, for Smith or Jones. I’m, yeah, I’m not sure, but, okay. So so if we add all of these together, What what what what number are we at these days?
John Tillison [00:23:55]:
The last I knew, I think, is 424 now. 424 National Park Sites. Okay. Now there’s some also what they call affiliated sites where, you know, the National Parks will put some funding into it, maybe put a, like, a interpretive ranger to help interpret the site. but there are a few of those not too many of them.
Scott Cowan [00:24:14]:
Okay.
John Tillison [00:24:15]:
But, actually, what Parks managed at 424, you know, and the best way I like to describe it I think that the national parks is like the history of art of America.
Scott Cowan [00:24:24]:
Mhmm.
John Tillison [00:24:24]:
I mean, like, the National Battlefields, it’s gonna be like Shiloh National Military Park. but Kansas, you know, all the big, like, civil war battlefields, stuff like that. Yeah. Okay.
Scott Cowan [00:24:38]:
Do you and I saw your crystal ball sitting right there. So this should be easy for you just to to access your crystal ball and look in the future. Oh, yeah. — this number growing?
John Tillison [00:24:48]:
Oh, yeah. I do.
Scott Cowan [00:24:49]:
Okay.
John Tillison [00:24:50]:
Yeah. I mean, you know, history continues in America. I mean, I mean, the civil rights start continuing to develop and, you know, women’s rights. and gay rights are stonewall National Monument Cowan in New York. Mhmm. And that was, like, kinda like the birth rate of, you know, right there where the rates for, lgbtq, you know, start it was right there.
Scott Cowan [00:25:14]:
So is I went to why this would be 15 years ago. the the the in Oklahoma City, the the — Oh,
John Tillison [00:25:28]:
the bombing. Yes.
Scott Cowan [00:25:29]:
The bombing. Is that a national Parr is that what I
John Tillison [00:25:32]:
think that’s actually an affiliate site.
Scott Cowan [00:25:34]:
Okay. So have you been there?
John Tillison [00:25:36]:
Yes.
Scott Cowan [00:25:37]:
That I I was I took my kids and they were little little kids. at that time. And, we’re driving. They were living in Cincinnati at the time I was driving him home. And, that I I don’t know what I expected. It wasn’t what I expected. It was extremely it was very moving. It was it was very, emotionally Church. Very well done, I thought. Okay. So Let’s let’s let’s shift gears here and let’s talk about Washington State has 3 national parks.
John Tillison [00:26:15]:
rip. Okay.
Scott Cowan [00:26:17]:
I was a little nervous on that one. Just gonna wait. Wait. He’s gonna crack me. So — Yeah. You’re great. We’ve got Mount Reiner.
John Tillison [00:26:24]:
Yes, sir.
Scott Cowan [00:26:25]:
We’ve got the Olympic National Park. Uh-huh. And then we have — — North Cascades. Right? But that one’s so I never think of that one. Okay? So that’s kind of the the odd man out in my brain. So let’s start there.
John Tillison [00:26:44]:
Okay.
Scott Cowan [00:26:46]:
because that’s a isn’t that an extremely large area.
John Tillison [00:26:51]:
It’s a huge area. It’s also north, you know, in the cascade, very north coming all the way to Canada. Right? So you’re talking to north end. Access can be pretty limited.
Scott Cowan [00:27:02]:
Mhmm.
John Tillison [00:27:03]:
So I think that’s part of it. And even the main highway there, you know, highway 20, is closed seasonally because of snow. So, you know, I think that doesn’t get as much attention because of that part Right. But anybody’s ever been there. I mean, it’s absolutely breathtaking. Right. tons of hiking trails in it. there’s a few campgrounds, And, there’s no real lodges. And, you know, that that’s a draw for some people, some of the lodges, especially out with us.
Scott Cowan [00:27:32]:
Right.
John Tillison [00:27:34]:
But, let
Scott Cowan [00:27:35]:
me ask you this question. —
John Tillison [00:27:36]:
through some fun towns. Like, you know, you come in and you come up through Winthrop, you know, and that area, it Cowan been Winthrop. And then, you know, you come back down and Yep. You know? Well, let
Scott Cowan [00:27:45]:
me ask you this question. If somebody was assigned to be a park ranger there, what do they do When it’s a is it is it technically closed during we’ll call it winter? So is it a seasonal job? Do they get moved somewhere else? Do you know?
John Tillison [00:28:02]:
you know, there is some seasonal jobs. There is some permanent jobs as well. I mean, there’s still people that come up and record, win and record in that area.
Scott Cowan [00:28:09]:
Okay.
John Tillison [00:28:10]:
you know, so you do have someone in Recreation. but there’s always stuff to do. I mean, you do need management there. You do need, I mean, the logistics of planning maintenance and stuff like that for the summer hiring for summer staff. I mean, it all takes planning and maintenance and logistics. so you do need a certain amount of permanent staff.
Scott Cowan [00:28:32]:
So so even though it’s not I’ll say, you you you know, I’m not completely correct when I say it’s closed for the the season, but it’s not.
John Tillison [00:28:40]:
You know, the funny thing is a lot of what we don’t see behind the scenes.
Scott Cowan [00:28:43]:
Mhmm.
John Tillison [00:28:43]:
Like, the wintertime was a great time for me to get training. It was time for me. You know, in certain things you had to have, like, I had to have a pesticide applicator license because we spray our road shelters and stuff like that as part of maintaining the park in the area.
Scott Cowan [00:28:56]:
Right.
John Tillison [00:28:57]:
But you have to have a license and you have to go through so many hours of training every year. So, you know, this is a great time to get that training in instead of busy season because, you know, I need to get the pesticide out and then be available summertime as
Scott Cowan [00:29:09]:
John Tillison [00:29:09]:
Right. our law enforcement training were required by law to maintain so many hours of law enforcement training.
Scott Cowan [00:29:15]:
Okay. So you
John Tillison [00:29:16]:
try to get as much as you can during those. the the non busy season. Right. You know? So, I mean, there’s all these little intricate details, and there’s always something that comes up that we need to do. I mean
Scott Cowan [00:29:28]:
John Tillison [00:29:28]:
Right.
Scott Cowan [00:29:30]:
So with with the North Cascades, in your opinion, what what are people overlooking up there? What’s what’s amazing that might be overlooked?
John Tillison [00:29:41]:
Man, the lakes, as you come in through that scenic drive up through there — Mhmm.
Scott Cowan [00:29:44]:
John Tillison [00:29:44]:
I gotta tell you that drive between width and back over to the coast. That is one of the most scenic drives in the National Park system if you ask me.
Scott Cowan [00:29:53]:
Okay.
John Tillison [00:29:53]:
Absolutely breathtaking. You got views of Ross Lake and couple of the lakes up there. You know, I mean, the colors of the water and the water falls just I mean, going for even a short hike up there, that this is Northwest Washington. I mean, this is some of the finest you know, the outdoors that we can expect when people think of the northwest
Scott Cowan [00:30:14]:
— Mhmm. —
John Tillison [00:30:14]:
here you have it. This is like the epitome of the northwest if you ask me. It’s just absolutely breathtaking.
Scott Cowan [00:30:22]:
So do you know when that was made into a national park?
John Tillison [00:30:26]:
That one, I don’t know. Okay. I’d have to look it up. I I know it’s later than the other ones.
Scott Cowan [00:30:32]:
Okay. So it it is of the of the 3. It’s the newest one in the system, man.
John Tillison [00:30:37]:
No. And it’s in 1968, I think it was.
Scott Cowan [00:30:41]:
- Okay. Yeah.
John Tillison [00:30:42]:
And then, it it also consists of, like, the Chelan management area in that. So, I mean, you’ve got that Stahican area that is on the backings, about Lake Chelan. People riding the boat down back there. You can stay nights there. You can go backpacking hiking all through that area. I mean, it it it’s a large area, and but it’s mostly remote. And it’s up to you how much you wanna explore, really.
Scott Cowan [00:31:07]:
So from a park ranger job then, if you were if you were assigned up there, being so remote. I mean, People do stupid things when there’s not a lot of access. In other words, you know, There’s been there’s been stories up in the North Central Washington of, you know, finding suitcases full of methamphetamine that have been dropped out of airplanes, things like that. You know, so you’ve got you’ve got all this rugged terrain that’s very rural and not not easily accessible. As a park ranger, you are you do some of your duties going out there and and kind of checking around?
John Tillison [00:31:47]:
Well, that’s part of it. You know, we were always doing patrols. I mean, I would say 99% of all people go parkers to me.
Scott Cowan [00:31:55]:
Mhmm. Right. Oh, yeah. It’s a it’s a
John Tillison [00:31:56]:
small bit. But but, you know, then again, as as I always told my It’s always the reason they put it caught on my head, you know, because there’s always that 1%, you know, the chance. drugs, I mean, You know, it wasn’t all too long ago that before, you know, we legalized marijuana state of what in Washington
Scott Cowan [00:32:16]:
Mhmm.
John Tillison [00:32:17]:
You know, I mean, we had a lot of marijuana come down for Kent. I mean, everybody always know the good stuff was a BC Bud. I mean, that’s what we always heard about. Right? Right. And and You know, and we had a lake that started in Canada and to in the North Cascades and in the United States,
Scott Cowan [00:32:34]:
Right.
John Tillison [00:32:34]:
So that would be one easy access when we’re trying to get through, and people would even try to hide through and stuff. You know, and it you know, they would try to find every way possible. You know? I mean, I even remember the state parks. I mean, it was, I think, the section passed, they had a boat that had suspicion and caught with a lot of drugs on it coming from Canada.
Scott Cowan [00:32:54]:
Yeah. Well, even back in the prohibition days, you know, Canada was providing alcohol to to the state of Washington with there was a a a large boat ship, if you will, more it off of Vancouver Island and the little boats would come up, fill it up with cases of whiskey and scoop back down. There’s a there’s a lot of interesting stories about, you know, about Canada.
John Tillison [00:33:20]:
You know, you talk about prohibition. I think one of the fun most fun stories, and I I told you I got a story. Right?
Scott Cowan [00:33:26]:
Yeah.
John Tillison [00:33:27]:
So when you go to collection department. You know, they they were known for their lodges. And those lodges were actually what part of what created, the national park because you had the railroad came through.
Scott Cowan [00:33:38]:
Mhmm.
John Tillison [00:33:38]:
And when the railroad came through, they was looking for more than just, you know, loads for, for money. They started looking to pass your traffic. They’re the ones that actually built some of the big lodges in Glacier. So, like, the big trees lodge and the mini glacier lodge, the Spirit Shelley Those were all created by the railroad for tourists.
Scott Cowan [00:33:56]:
Okay.
John Tillison [00:33:57]:
So now the fun part about that is is we hit prohibition. The railroad’s got their next big idea. And, you know, the lodge is just up in Canada, Waterton Lakes, the one at Frater, just above.
Scott Cowan [00:34:09]:
Uh-huh.
John Tillison [00:34:11]:
That was built by the US railroad for tourism. And you know what kind of tourism that was. Right?
Scott Cowan [00:34:17]:
Mhmm.
John Tillison [00:34:18]:
somebody Cowan go for the weekend till the great outdoors and get their fill of their favorite beverage while they’re at it in Canada, you know, for you and back home.
Scott Cowan [00:34:31]:
Well, you, you know, say what you want about Americans, but we are industrious.
John Tillison [00:34:35]:
Yes. We
Scott Cowan [00:34:36]:
You are creative, but we are industrious. Alright. So then so the North Cascades, so what I I didn’t realize is just the sheer number of acres that this this this park covers, and it’s pretty pretty amazing I agree with you. 100%, you know, that drive is a wonderful drive. And, everybody should if you haven’t done the North Cascades loop, you should try it. And I think it’s a it’s a it’s a it’s a signature drive in our state.
John Tillison [00:35:09]:
So that
Scott Cowan [00:35:09]:
John Tillison [00:35:09]:
And the other thing to do is actually is to get a pair of hiking boots on and go hiking, spend a few hours in the outdoors, and that you’ll you know, get that true experience of the outdoors and, you know, that’s that’s the cascades right there.
Scott Cowan [00:35:23]:
So I’ll ask you this question is we’re gonna transition to 1 of the other 2 I’m gonna guess that Rainier was the National Park before the Olympic was created.
John Tillison [00:35:34]:
Rainier was with the original 5 Cowan parks. So
Scott Cowan [00:35:37]:
let’s talk let’s let’s talk about the Olympics then. So — Okay. What’s going on? And what have you experienced up there?
John Tillison [00:35:45]:
Man, the Olympics is probably one of the most incredible parts in the system. He asked me. It’s incredible because, you know, when you talk about size again, This park is freaking massive. And when I say massive, the people that make the number one mistake is wanting to just spend a day to go to the park and leave. You’re not you I mean, you’re gonna do good to try that circle in a day.
Scott Cowan [00:36:12]:
Mhmm.
John Tillison [00:36:12]:
And and that’s not even getting out. Look at the things. Let’s just try. Driving. I mean, it’s it’s really that big. There there’s not much to do.
Scott Cowan [00:36:19]:
Mhmm.
John Tillison [00:36:20]:
I I’d like to tell people to break it up in, like, a few different sections.
Scott Cowan [00:36:23]:
k.
John Tillison [00:36:24]:
because you’ve got the rainforest section. You got the beach, and then you got the mountains. And, so you really got 3 big sections to explore. The beaches are incredible, The Lodge, like at Clay Lake Beach. Absolutely one of my favorite places to stay. Mhmm. you got the tree of life. I mean, you know, you got really beach. Yeah. I mean, anybody can and anybody from us from Washington, It’s one of the best secrets in the world is you know what? All of a sudden, it hits a 100 degrees, and everybody’s grumpy in Washington because everybody wants summer to hit, but when it hits 100 degrees, we all are are hot, visible, and grumpy.
Scott Cowan [00:37:04]:
You do know me.
John Tillison [00:37:06]:
Everybody, good old beach over there. It’ll be 20 degrees cooler. and you will just be so happy. Right. Enjoy the day in the beach.
Scott Cowan [00:37:16]:
It’s it’s it’s a beautiful area. Absolutely beautiful area.
John Tillison [00:37:18]:
And then you got the rain for you know, I got the whole rain forest and, you know, in that whole Lake Quinnell area there. Man, talk about just some beautiful, I mean, You got some incredible trails to it and spend the day. You got the, sold out falls, sold out hot springs, and I don’t know if you’ve ever been to a hot spring.
Scott Cowan [00:37:37]:
I have not.
John Tillison [00:37:38]:
There’s some load of cabins there. And, again, another incredible place to explore Yeah. And if you want pictures of that kind of stuff, go look at my blog and just find the thing and get a little search thing and you get his foot, so much hot springs in it.
Scott Cowan [00:37:53]:
Okay.
John Tillison [00:37:53]:
And I’ve got articles on it. I got photos of it. You know, I had experienced all this stuff, and it’s just over the last. I I love that area. I just, I mean, I could spend days out there. And, and then you got the upper mountains and, you know, they they get tons of snow in the summer and winter,
Scott Cowan [00:38:13]:
but, you
John Tillison [00:38:13]:
know, in, you know, in the summertime, incredible hiking trails, epic vistas, I mean, it’s just gores you set there and tons of wildlife. I mean, there’s so much to explore in the Olympics. You, I mean, you could you could easily spend a week there.
Scott Cowan [00:38:30]:
I’m on your sold, like, falls right now looking at it as as a my scrolling blisters. That was bad. Gonna send you —
John Tillison [00:38:37]:
You know, in the falls is one of the epic waterfalls in the state. It’s such an icon. Yeah. but the hot springs itself, I think, is just so much fun to you. I mean, anybody’s gonna ding you. I mean, if anybody likes to go sit hot baths and stuff like that, I mean, seriously. It and what I have, I’ve had people say, well, it doesn’t really lock in natural hot spring. So some people would get turned off by it.
Scott Cowan [00:39:01]:
Mhmm.
John Tillison [00:39:02]:
But what I always tell people is go out and go hiking and exploring for, like, 3 or 4 days and just wear yourself out. You know, just have a great time until you know, your feet are hurting, your legs are hurting, everything, and you’re tired, you need to Cowan, and then go sit in that hot water bin. It’s the best thing you ever had. You know, you’ll think that’s the best place you should stop.
Scott Cowan [00:39:22]:
Right. Now now I found your hot springs. Oh, wow. Yeah. I’ve never been there. So
John Tillison [00:39:27]:
This is really incredible. It’s a hidden gem, I think, to be honest. But it’s got some cute little cabins there that you can rent. The, I mean, I think the cabins are rather affordable. I mean, you know, I think they run a couple of 100 a night. It
Scott Cowan [00:39:41]:
— Mhmm. — you
John Tillison [00:39:42]:
know, in December, but, you know, I mean, What I’ve seen some of the National Park lodges go for in the summertime, especially Yellowstone, some of the big ones, I mean, some of them can run up into
Scott Cowan [00:39:52]:
500.
John Tillison [00:39:53]:
And I
Scott Cowan [00:39:55]:
Lodging is just one of those things that his like everything, but lodging has gotten to be just staggering. Yes. It just no no matter what. So the fact that I’m not blinking an eye at 200 is kind of Yeah.
John Tillison [00:40:12]:
Oh, you know, and part of it is you’re paying for location, you know, location, location, location.
Scott Cowan [00:40:18]:
Right.
John Tillison [00:40:19]:
Right. you know, and right here, you know, when you’re at the household, the sold up, hot hot springs, you’re right there right at the hot springs. You’re gonna walk right out of your cabin and shorts or your swimsuit and walk right across the parking lot in your right turn in the at the hot springs.
Scott Cowan [00:40:35]:
Right. No. I’ve never been there. This is beautiful.
John Tillison [00:40:38]:
And, like, the clay lock lodge
Scott Cowan [00:40:40]:
John Tillison [00:40:40]:
Mhmm. — for the price of them, I mean, you’re right on the beach. You know, you’re you’re right there in the water. I mean, you had incredible views. I mean, the the view to me is working, buddy.
Scott Cowan [00:40:53]:
I’m gonna come back. I have questions about your about your articles. So we’re gonna after we talk about Rainier, we’ll — Okay. — to I’d like to go there. So but let’s jump to Rainier because that is kind of, you know, one of Washington States, if not Washington State’s iconic signature. Absolutely. you know, I don’t know.
John Tillison [00:41:11]:
We’ll know whether the mountain’s out or what mountain’s not out. You know?
Scott Cowan [00:41:14]:
Exactly. Yeah. That, you know, that is true. So And that was one of the first national parks. Mhmm. Have you ever are you’ve talked about hiking. Have you ever climbed right
John Tillison [00:41:25]:
near? I have not.
Scott Cowan [00:41:27]:
So I
John Tillison [00:41:28]:
have — It’s one of the technical challenges. I mean, you know, for hikers, that’s a really good starting point if they’re gonna do one of the big hikes. It’s a really good technical challenge to You’re ready for him.
Scott Cowan [00:41:39]:
My, a a guy that’s been on the show a couple of times, is a a guy I know. He’s a musician and all this. And and I I knew him as a musician. So I first got to know him. And we were talking one day and he goes, oh, I love history and all this stuff. And I I love to be on on your show because me and my friend we recreated this hike of, Tolmay of Tomay, to Tomay peak. and they recreated Tamesh hike, basically, from Fortnosquale to where he went in his, like, 1855. Don’t quote me on it. But they so instead of taking horses, they use electric bikes, but they they recreate the whole thing. And I’m like, So what got you into this? And he goes, oh, I’ve, you know, I’ve climbed very near. And I said, oh, I yeah. Well, how many times do you Cowan very near? because I’ve submitted, I think, thirteen times now.
John Tillison [00:42:29]:
Well
Scott Cowan [00:42:30]:
And I’m looking at him. And I think of him as a musician, and, you know, I don’t necessarily think of musicians as as as, you know, climbers and outdoorsy people. And I’m just, like, thirteen times. Oh my gosh. So, you know, Rainier’s iconic. Yes. But before we talk about all the things that it’s really one on for, I’d like to ask you just the opposite. What’s underappreciated there What what what should somebody if somebody’s gonna go to Rainier and they can look up all the the well documented stuff. What do you got? What do you got to offer in the way of a tip for something that’s off off the beaten path, if you will.
John Tillison [00:43:09]:
Well, you know, most people come in to the 1 inch Trane Care in Longmire, you know, you know, coming from the West Coast
Scott Cowan [00:43:16]:
John Tillison [00:43:16]:
Mhmm.
Scott Cowan [00:43:16]:
John Tillison [00:43:17]:
coming across, you know, you got the, you know, the wood things. It’s about rainier. Right? Hey. You have to drive up. You hit bomb buyer, and you got, you know, the tip were out. I like what you want in the background, and I’m not talking about through a hot polish. I’m talking about through the back end by Tipsi Lay.
Scott Cowan [00:43:34]:
Okay.
John Tillison [00:43:35]:
So if you come in, kinda like, yac him on the north that north route of that way.
Scott Cowan [00:43:41]:
Uh-huh.
John Tillison [00:43:41]:
It is only open seasonally as well, you know, with snow and stuff.
Scott Cowan [00:43:45]:
Right.
John Tillison [00:43:45]:
But, you know, when you come into it, There’s a beautiful acre right off to left right before you get to the park. But then you come up, you’ve got this big wooden bridge that runs right across, and it says Mount Rainier. Well, that bridge right there, do you know what that is?
Scott Cowan [00:44:00]:
I do not.
John Tillison [00:44:02]:
It’s part of the PCT, the Pacific Crest Trail.
Scott Cowan [00:44:06]:
Oh. Okay.
John Tillison [00:44:09]:
Oh. So if you catch it the right time, you might actually see somebody walking across that. because that’s part of the Pacific Crest Trail. And part of that actually touch is Mount Rainier. And, you know, I’m talking about that. And then what’s one of the other most popular high there’s a wonderland trail that goes all the way around the mountain. Right. You know, which is a, you know, when they get permits and all that stuff too. It’s so popular. but, yeah, so you get to come over that It is just a beautiful twist turning, road. Some people know about it. Some people don’t but you’ll see it on the map. It’ll have Tipsu Lake on it, and I actually wrote just an article on Tipsu Lake on my blog.
Scott Cowan [00:44:48]:
Okay.
John Tillison [00:44:48]:
because it’s probably my favorite spot in all about rain here. So you come down here, and it depends on the time of the year. It could be covered in ice and snow. But when you catch it in the right time in the late summer, you it is filled with wildflowers all the way around the lake. and then you’ve got this lake. And if you’re to fall back into the lake, you’re surrounded by wildflowers. You’re looking at this lake. you know, the cold day, you’ve got the reflection of Mount Rainier on the lake looking at Mount Rainier.
Scott Cowan [00:45:17]:
Mhmm.
John Tillison [00:45:18]:
It’s one of the most that that’s one of the most photogenic places in the National Park all together right there. Absolutely stunning.
Scott Cowan [00:45:27]:
I made the mistake. not a mistake. And a a lack of planning on my part. How’s that? we were gonna go see some music being performed in orting. you know, on the other on the other side of the mountain. We so we we decided, hey, let’s let’s go down. Let’s go Cowan. Let’s let’s go down to yeah, come on. Go across. Let’s go the back way. This will be fun. What you haven’t told everybody yet is that at the right time of year, it is bumper to bumper traffic and people like pushing not I’m kidding, pushing each other out of the way for a photo opportunity. I mean, it is it’s insane how many people are there photographing that that that beautiful landscape. Yes. It’s it’s funny to me. But it took me like an hour longer than I anticipated because traffic was so bad. And I didn’t give it a shot, but it was absolutely beautiful. You you
John Tillison [00:46:25]:
know, and Rainier’s god is so well known now that, I mean, it is it’s hard to find one of those little bitty hidden gems now, because there’s just so many people. And we’re and I’m seeing that a lot in a lot of the big parts. What I used to think was out in the middle of nowhere. I mean, got my first trip to Arch’s was over 30 years ago.
Scott Cowan [00:46:44]:
Okay.
John Tillison [00:46:45]:
And I remember hitting a couple trails where I didn’t see, but maybe one or two people on the whole time.
Scott Cowan [00:46:51]:
Right.
John Tillison [00:46:51]:
and I don’t know if you’ve heard about arches. They now have an actual entry permit during the middle of the day where they limit to know people because There was literally more people trying to get in the park than they have parking spaces for. Wow. I mean, the am I people going to constantly have to have so many cars driving just to keep people going. but there was no place for them to go. And you look at, like, the delicate arts. They’re most famous arts there, you know, it’s on their license plate, you know. Right. and you look at a trail Cowan, and you’ll see the where the arch is, and it just looks like a ant hill. you know, it looks like a bunch of ants going up the hill because there’s so many people like it.
Scott Cowan [00:47:33]:
Yeah. Okay. So Rainier, though.
John Tillison [00:47:36]:
I mean, there’s so much to see and do
Scott Cowan [00:47:37]:
at this at this park. Year round, really. I mean, it’s —
John Tillison [00:47:47]:
It’s an amazing part in year round because, I mean, they have lots of winter irrigation as well.
Scott Cowan [00:47:52]:
Right. Yeah. No. It it really is. It really is a a beautiful park. Have you done the Wonderland Trail? Did you ever
John Tillison [00:48:00]:
mind about it?
Scott Cowan [00:48:01]:
Okay. you know,
John Tillison [00:48:02]:
and, you know, when I was arranged for all these years, I mean, it was kinda hard to get time off because that was our go time. Right?
Scott Cowan [00:48:07]:
And that was one
John Tillison [00:48:08]:
of the hard things is, you know, I had all these strings some of the places that I wanted to go to, but it was also my busy time at work.
Scott Cowan [00:48:15]:
Right. It
John Tillison [00:48:15]:
had never seemed to fail that I would get caught up in something I couldn’t get off or something. Right. Shut up.
Scott Cowan [00:48:22]:
So you’ve got a bunch of hikes listed here on this on this article. I’m I’m I’m not gonna run the videos because the my speakers will pick it up and and we don’t want I don’t wanna get feedback here. But You know, you’re talking about, you you you reference Crystal Mountain, which is not in the park, but it’s it’s great views of the mountain from from crystal.
John Tillison [00:48:46]:
Exactly.
Scott Cowan [00:48:48]:
great great place to go and see. They’re just you’ve done a great job.
John Tillison [00:48:56]:
So Thank you. You know, one of my favorite trails I’d like to talk about, Terry. is closed now. It’s got some damage, a couple of years ago in the storms, the flooding damage, but as it drove to the And I’m sure they’re working on that one to get it open because it was one of the busiest trails in the park, but you got the Silver Falls Trail. It’s beautiful. It’s not far from that. It’s easy. not too bad of a hike. You got incredible views of waterfalls. You know, the mount rainier is all about water But
Scott Cowan [00:49:25]:
— Mhmm. — I don’t
John Tillison [00:49:25]:
know if you know it, just have any warmth, but it’s crazy. Right?
Scott Cowan [00:49:28]:
I don’t know how many.
John Tillison [00:49:30]:
I don’t know how many. I know there’s a And but you got narada falls. You got all kinds of falls up there. It’s just, man, the hiking around them is just Second to none. And then you Cowan hate the round that some of the loop when you get up in paradise. You can do that loop up there, and I’m When you hit it in the summertime with the wild flowers
Scott Cowan [00:49:53]:
John Tillison [00:49:54]:
Mhmm. — I’ve done it. It’s just one of the most beautiful sites to mobile.
Scott Cowan [00:49:59]:
It is. It’s absolutely challenging. So I’m on I’m on your what article am I on? Do you washing to you’re you got an article in Washington National Parks. Cowan so here I am talking about exploring Washington State in I’m every every guest points out something that I don’t know about Washington’s sake because I don’t know that much. It’s just so it’s I always have to be the the guy who has to look Like, oh, you should know that, but I don’t. So you’ve got Evie’s landing — — Ford Vancouver? The co the conduct Gold Rush National Historical Park. Where’s that at?
John Tillison [00:50:40]:
Vista of Health Seattle. is it? Downer by the baseball field and football field down there. There’s a visitor center, and, that talks about the gold rush. Yeah. So now historical park, they do have also, like, in Scagway. They have a big part of that park there.
Scott Cowan [00:50:57]:
Okay.
John Tillison [00:50:57]:
you know, and that’s where people were coming in and catching the boat, heading up on the gold rush and heading up north to, you know, you know, how gold was. You know, I mean, I That’s the big settlement coming over. So it’s a big story to talk talk about. Okay.
Scott Cowan [00:51:11]:
We we mentioned Lake Roosevelt earlier.
John Tillison [00:51:13]:
Mhmm.
Scott Cowan [00:51:14]:
the Manhattan Project.
John Tillison [00:51:16]:
That’s one of my favorites to talk about, actually. It’s it’s very, very little, well, not much known about it, really. Mhmm. And is had more of an impact on everybody’s life than anybody can think about. You know what’s developed here. Right?
Scott Cowan [00:51:31]:
Mhmm.
John Tillison [00:51:32]:
the big thing. It went boom
Scott Cowan [00:51:34]:
— Mhmm. —
John Tillison [00:51:35]:
in Japan that even brought to you. Yeah. That that’s what was developed there. Yeah. And, I mean, so it has a pretty significant part of our history. And now today, you Cowan actually meet at the visitor center in Thanks, Richland. And, you catch a bus. It takes you to the actual place where the b reactor is, then you can actually seal, the reactors is pretty impressive. And you think about the technology then what they had, and you’re thinking about uranium and you’re thinking about You know, the big boom, you know, and they’re saying, man, that was all done with this. That’s impressive.
Scott Cowan [00:52:15]:
Well, yeah, the the I have a story about that, but the other story that I’ll share is the, when you think about the when we landed on the moon — Mhmm. — and, you know, My iPhone has more computational power than we had to get us on the moon. You know, I mean, it’s pretty it’s pretty amazing what what people create with out having an iPhone. I I have a friend who lives in the Tri Cities area, and we were there for a business event. He goes, hey. You wanna you wanna write out to Hanford? I’m like, no. I’m not sure. Yeah. He goes, I will we’ll stir up the guards. I’m like, What are you talking about? And he’s he’s he’s a good guy, but he’s got a, you know, he he’s he’s a rattle rouser. So we’ve got this white Chevy pickup truck. Nice nice truck. You know, more of a luxury vehicle than a truck. Right? And we’re driving out down this 3 or 4 lane road directly towards what I call Hanford. Big signs saying, you know, basically turn around, please. You don’t don’t you’re not welcome beyond this sign. And, he goes, nope. We’re gonna keep going. And then all of a sudden, we get all of a sudden, an unmarked Chevy Suburban pulls in right behind us. Evid, all of a sudden, one comes directly at us and stops us and they’re like, you guys hear, and they were very nice about it. It was just like, but yeah, that was like, they’re very protective of that. So to go out to see reactor b might be kind of a very a very cool thing. And you just you just don’t get to drive out there and go see it. No one’s gonna no one’s gonna let you mirror it. So then we’ve got mini DACA National Historic site. And that’s that’s on Bainbridge. Right? Yes. Okay. And that’s also
John Tillison [00:54:04]:
that’s all part of the Japanese internment units.
Scott Cowan [00:54:07]:
Right. And that just recently was a there’s something that just was recently going on about that. I think they just
John Tillison [00:54:15]:
made another one a site somewhere about to In Colorado, I believe it is. Yes.
Scott Cowan [00:54:21]:
And then we’ve got, you know — And
John Tillison [00:54:23]:
everybody knows about manzanar. That’s another one.
Scott Cowan [00:54:26]:
Mhmm.
John Tillison [00:54:26]:
And man’s not ours when, the one guy was in Star Trek or something. He grew up on that.
Scott Cowan [00:54:31]:
Oh, did he? Oh, I do know that.
John Tillison [00:54:34]:
So you, yeah, you grew up in one of those internic camps. So that’s why he’s always talking about that. what people don’t know about that. This is what’s important, I think, to for us to know about our own history is, you know, everybody talks about, you know, how important is our rights. I think all of our rates are very important because Japanese Americans were all through the West Coast 1 Pearl Harbor yet. Right?
Scott Cowan [00:54:57]:
Mhmm.
John Tillison [00:54:58]:
They were Americans. they did nothing wrong. They were just, you know, part of their harris was just being Japanese and when Pearl Harbor hit, what happened? They were just rounded up their house. They lost their houses, their businesses, and everything, and they were just putting these internment cans. Right. And when they were filing released, they were giving a one way bus ticket to the Midwest or something.
Scott Cowan [00:55:21]:
Mhmm. Yeah.
John Tillison [00:55:22]:
They lost your houses. They lost your businesses. Yeah. They were basically putting in quote, unquote, a GL, which wasn’t really considered a GL, but
Scott Cowan [00:55:30]:
John Tillison [00:55:31]:
Mhmm. — that’s how quickly our ranks can be taken away. and they did nothing legally wrong. And I think it’s something we have to learn as Americans. He said, this is the important of our National Park sites is we need to know that That’s how that’s how quickly our rights can be taken away if we let it.
Scott Cowan [00:55:48]:
you’re absolutely correct. I I I know somebody who’s, grandparents. lost a very large, farm and a florist business. Be you know? Yes. And, yeah. Then we have we have Rainier which we kind of touched on the NES Pierce National Historic Park. Where’s that at?
John Tillison [00:56:11]:
Oh, that’s salad. That’s night owl. I think, isn’t it? A portion of the Western is brewers.
Scott Cowan [00:56:17]:
We got
John Tillison [00:56:18]:
something I’m not really familiar with.
Scott Cowan [00:56:21]:
Well, e okay. So here’s here’s what you say right here.
John Tillison [00:56:24]:
Oh, it’s the tree, wasn’t it?
Scott Cowan [00:56:28]:
Well, You have it listed as a National Historical Parkins located in Idaho, Montana, Oregon, Washington. Okay. So Louis, in Idaho. Where’s where the center?
John Tillison [00:56:37]:
Lewiston’s a okay. Now no. It’s the one that’s freight out of Lewiston. Right. And they do have a couple sites as in Washington. It’s mostly focused in the Idaho
Scott Cowan [00:56:46]:
John Tillison [00:56:46]:
Okay. — area.
Scott Cowan [00:56:48]:
We got North Cascades and Olympics we talked about San Juan Island.
John Tillison [00:56:52]:
Oh, have you do you know about that part?
Scott Cowan [00:56:54]:
I do.
John Tillison [00:56:56]:
That’s a fun one. Talk about the pig war.
Scott Cowan [00:57:05]:
And then and then what we talked about just briefly was the Whitman mission, near Wallowal. Right. So those are currently what Washington State has in the National Parks system, if you will.
Scott Cowan [00:56:59]:
Mhmm.
John Tillison [00:56:59]:
And how we almost got in the war over a pig.
Scott Cowan [00:57:02]:
Over a pig.
John Tillison [00:57:03]:
Mhmm. Over a pig.
John Tillison [00:57:15]:
Yes. Okay. Yes. So one
Scott Cowan [00:57:18]:
of the things I’ve noticed on your website, and this is this is now gonna shift gears and talk about your site. How many articles do you have on this thing on your site? Between the
John Tillison [00:57:31]:
date or the National Park landing pages and articles probably somewhere around 800. It’s
Scott Cowan [00:57:38]:
a lot of work.
John Tillison [00:57:40]:
It is.
Scott Cowan [00:57:41]:
It’s a lot of work. So you got when I look at your menu, you’ve got US National Parks. You got cruise travel, state parks, and recipes. Yeah. Now if you look at me, I obviously look like I like food. So what how are you tying food into the into the park ranger thing? What’s how what’s the connection here?
John Tillison [00:58:02]:
Bill, I have a part of a long term plan that’s gonna get further involved
Scott Cowan [00:58:07]:
Okay.
John Tillison [00:58:08]:
But as, you know, as somebody that hasn’t quite dug in full time, I haven’t given up state service yet, but that’s I wanna start talking more camping outboard recipes and stuff.
Scott Cowan [00:58:24]:
Okay. I
John Tillison [00:58:25]:
do have a few of my favorite things, and I kinda like that as soon on air. you know, and I got a couple of drinks in there because, you know, after a good hike, you know, a good beer, I got beers inspired by the national parks because, you know, I don’t know if you’ve been around, but you’ll see a beer Got a theme. I mean, I’ve even got a picture of me drinking a rainier on that rainier. So I mean, you know, like, I like some of the themes of some of the beers and, and it’s spirits. Well, you know, and when I put that article up, there’s a lot of people Well, what about wines? I know there’s a lot of wines I started doing research, and I found some wines to put it up. But the but wines changed like crazy. That one’s really out of need.
Scott Cowan [00:59:04]:
Okay.
John Tillison [00:59:04]:
And but then I got people asking me about spirits because spirits are such a growing thing. Yep. And I found some spirits. Same thing and done that. Oh, yeah. So people really love that, and I put a few of my drinks, and I like, you know, mean, I like a good bourbon every now and then. So, I mean, you don’t tell that, but, you know, so it’s kind of a fun little site when When I get a little sidetracked of wanting to dig into a park for damn, I might might do something like that on air. It’s still my side. I can do my add my own favorite to
Scott Cowan [00:59:34]:
isn’t that isn’t that the best thing? It’s my site. I can do what I want. I like that. I like that about sites.
John Tillison [00:59:41]:
Yeah. And it may not be all about parts, but, you know, we’ve all had a good day after a good eye, and we wanna get you to celebrate and have a good time.
Scott Cowan [00:59:48]:
Well, there’s a there’s a a book out, beers at the bottom. It’s it’s Washington, Oregon, and British Columbia Heights based on where to go. You can go have a beer afterwards.
John Tillison [00:59:58]:
Nice.
Scott Cowan [00:59:59]:
Yeah. Brandon Brandon Frowlick, and it’s in its second edition now. It’s been so popular. Brandon Brandon used to be an editor here on on our on our site. And, he’s been a guest a couple of times because he’s written some other hiking books too. And I was just like, are you kidding me planning hikes about about beer. And he looked at me, like, I was just, like, well, doesn’t everybody? And I was, like,
John Tillison [01:00:19]:
I think, height 15 miles, at least there’s a beer reward.
Scott Cowan [01:00:24]:
You know, I I kind of went he got me there, you know? So ton of content. Mhmm. You haven’t been to all the parks yet.
John Tillison [01:00:37]:
I’ve been to 58 of the 63 national parks.
Scott Cowan [01:00:40]:
So what’s okay. So you got 5 to go. What are those 5?
John Tillison [01:00:44]:
The only one in the lower 48 is Isle Royal, EF, Michigan,
Scott Cowan [01:00:48]:
Okay.
John Tillison [01:00:48]:
And ask someone in on the lake there. You gotta go on a boat to get there.
Scott Cowan [01:00:52]:
Right.
John Tillison [01:00:54]:
let, American Samoa, which is in Samoa,
Scott Cowan [01:00:57]:
Oh, wow. Okay. So that’s gonna be a bit of a trick.
John Tillison [01:00:59]:
That is a trick. And then I haven’t been to Koyak, Lake Clark, Gates in the Arctic and cat or, Cobot Valley. Do you have any
Scott Cowan [01:01:11]:
John Tillison [01:01:11]:
every and and those are all the backcountry of Alaska. One’s This actually gonna require me to actually have to, get a foot plane or something to get to over something.
Scott Cowan [01:01:22]:
So do you have any plans in the works for, Just just this is video or this is audio. The video, the lights just went on there, and so the cameras were all like, Do you do you have any are you getting plans in the works to go to any of these?
John Tillison [01:01:43]:
Well, I don’t know if you get to everyone. Well,
Scott Cowan [01:01:45]:
yeah, I I anticipate you will, but do you have anything in the near future planned out?
John Tillison [01:01:49]:
I this year, I wanna get to Iowa up in Michigan.
Scott Cowan [01:01:53]:
Okay.
John Tillison [01:01:55]:
You know, the other one’s gonna be a feather than that kind of thing. You know what I mean? you know, and the thing about, like, get even getting up into Cobog Valley And Gates of Arlington Lake Clark. There’s there’s not really much for services. I mean, they don’t have visitor centers. They don’t have really trails that I mean, it’s just wilderness.
Scott Cowan [01:02:13]:
Okay.
John Tillison [01:02:14]:
So, you know, you can say you’ve been there, but, you know, you what you do won’t walker off a little bit in the forest. And, you know, you don’t have the same there’s not much I wanna be able to bring to my readers. Right now, and that’s what I’m really trying to focus on is bringing stuff to my readers right Cowan much as I can. And, So that’s not the direction I’m really aiming towards. Oh, Royal, yes. I mean, there’s a lodge there. there’s some other stuff, but maybe in the future when they start to get a little bit more developer, I really wanna get to a few more of the East Coast parks that I haven’t been to yet. Mhmm. And there’s some big sites there. I just haven’t been to yet. It’s just, you know, it’s just getting there and But there’s 424 of them. You know, there’s a lot to go to.
Scott Cowan [01:03:02]:
There’s a lot to go to.
John Tillison [01:03:03]:
We’ve been to approximately 300 of the sites.
Scott Cowan [01:03:06]:
Wow. Tommy.
John Tillison [01:03:07]:
We still got, like, 124 to go, so
Scott Cowan [01:03:13]:
Ow. Alright. So this is I’m I’m gonna I am I know I’m asking you an impossible question. I know it. It’s your favorite park.
John Tillison [01:03:23]:
Yeah. Depends on what you want.
Scott Cowan [01:03:26]:
Oh, we cop out answer. No. What’s your favorite part? What? I mean okay.
John Tillison [01:03:31]:
So for me, I mean
Scott Cowan [01:03:32]:
— Yeah.
John Tillison [01:03:33]:
Okay. For a good hike, it’s gonna be something different than going wildlife watching.
Scott Cowan [01:03:37]:
Alright. So, alright, what’s your favorite park for hiking?
John Tillison [01:03:40]:
hiking, I would say Zion.
Scott Cowan [01:03:42]:
Okay.
John Tillison [01:03:43]:
I’ve hiked almost every trail in that park.
Scott Cowan [01:03:45]:
k.
John Tillison [01:03:46]:
Absolutely. And that’s probably one of the parks that I actually fell in love with. the national parks. you know, I mean, gosh, I I don’t know how many nights I’ve camped there. Almost got lost once. Okay. And, oddly enough I had cell service at night, and I got ahold of my wife, and then I forgot to call her and tell her I’ll make it home. And And needless to say for about 5 years afterwards every Christmas. I got e g GPS units and stuff like that.
Scott Cowan [01:04:17]:
Do do you have a satellite phone now?
John Tillison [01:04:19]:
No. Right.
Scott Cowan [01:04:21]:
Alright. So how about for for looking at wildlife?
John Tillison [01:04:25]:
Man, that’s so hard. I know.
Scott Cowan [01:04:29]:
I and I know that these are neck I know there’s no wrong answers here. You know, I’m just, you know, just asking you your opinions.
John Tillison [01:04:37]:
You know, Yellowstone’s an epic one. Don’t give me
Scott Cowan [01:04:39]:
a rule. Mhmm.
John Tillison [01:04:40]:
Hey. You know, and I’ve I’ve seen wolves and Yellowstone. I mean, that’s just that’s the experience. You know, I mean, I’ve seen all the all the major gains or so. I mean, Yellowstone’s just amazing. Everybody knows that. I think one of the surprise ones that people don’t know, I think it’s not rain here. There’s tons of wildlife, it’s not rain here. I’ve seen black bears, foxes, you name it. I’ve seen it there. I love Mount Rainier for wildlife. And then there’s Alaska. I mean, Alaska, geez. I could talk for days about wildlife in Alaska. I’ve done Klasier May and, you know, Most people experience Closure Bay by cruise ship, but you can actually stay in the lot. There’s a an actual lodge in the in Glacier Bay. And, those built in 76. It was part of the or 60 Tillison 66 project, and now it’s a 50 year anniversary for National Parks. So they wanted to build everything up for the they put a lodge in in Glacier Bay. Mhmm. They’re in the bay there, Bartlett Cove, When we stayed there, we had humpback whales breaching it in the cove there sitting there eating dinner at the lodge. Wow.
Scott Cowan [01:05:49]:
I’ll
John Tillison [01:05:50]:
talk about just incredible. You know? I mean, we went hike the trail up along along the ocean here, and you’ve seen otters playing in the water and stuff. And then took a boat tour right out of there up into Glacier Bay, and it was a much smaller boat than a cruise ship. So we really got in. so much more wildlife than you see on a cruise ship. It was hands down one of my favorite trips, and the key night of yours was the same way. Same thing with the, you know, getting up into the few words and stuff. We’ve seen tons of wildlife there.
Scott Cowan [01:06:25]:
This is the this is the dreaded negative question.
John Tillison [01:06:28]:
Okay.
Scott Cowan [01:06:29]:
Once again, your opinion. What’s the most overrated park?
John Tillison [01:06:36]:
Man,
Scott Cowan [01:06:37]:
In your opinion, That’s like asking, you know, which which one of your kids is your least favorite. I know. But, you know, no.
John Tillison [01:06:45]:
No. I I think the hardest one for me is And I think it’s because I just don’t like the classification of it.
Scott Cowan [01:06:52]:
Okay.
John Tillison [01:06:53]:
It’s gateway arch. Alright. it it is a really cool one. Don’t get me wrong. You know, you got You got the arts itself. You know, the westward expansion. That’s what it’s all about.
Scott Cowan [01:07:03]:
Mhmm.
John Tillison [01:07:03]:
And you have the Trent Scott cases of court houses right across the way. then you got you got the river trade there. I mean, but you’re still right in the middle of a city. And some of the biggest questions I get I get this all done. You know, you’re talking you’re right downtown. Right?
Scott Cowan [01:07:17]:
Right.
John Tillison [01:07:18]:
And most people’s going around the park. She’s like, I got a 5th wheel. We’re gonna come out here. You’re right downtown. You know, oh, well, maybe if you’re lucky, you
Scott Cowan [01:07:28]:
— Right. Yeah.
John Tillison [01:07:29]:
Mhmm. So things like that, they’ve got an phenomenal business center, but I don’t think it I don’t know if it’s a national park as much as it is. you know, a national historical part. Okay.
Scott Cowan [01:07:43]:
You
John Tillison [01:07:43]:
know, because there’s more about the history and stuff. It’s not you’re not putting on your hiking boots and going for a high you know, what most people think of a national.
Scott Cowan [01:07:51]:
Right. Oh, no. I think that’s a — And
John Tillison [01:07:53]:
I don’t know what the resource per se is being protected. Like I said, you know, when you go to hot springs, you got the water. mascain, you know, again, you know, the
Scott Cowan [01:08:01]:
water, you know, the the the
John Tillison [01:08:03]:
the bay there. Yeah. Mhmm. And I don’t know if that’s necessarily protecting. besides immigration. So I don’t I just think it’s more a misclassification. Okay. Fine.
Scott Cowan [01:08:17]:
So you live in Spokane. Mhmm. Let’s talk about Spokane for a little bit. Let me ask you. Let me let me look. I’m saying this ingest.
John Tillison [01:08:33]:
Well, I have family that’s here. That’s why I wanted to move there and do stuff. but, you know, as I’ve gotten older now, I’m looking at some other stuff to moving towards as I’m looking to retirement. you know, I think I’d like to pass in a snowblower for maybe some flip flops and some plum trees or something.
Scott Cowan [01:08:54]:
What? Don’t use your snowboard? Your wife’s nodding her head behind you. This is pretty funny.
John Tillison [01:08:59]:
She says, that’s not your head.
Scott Cowan [01:09:02]:
I’m totally with you on this, by the way. The you know,
John Tillison [01:09:04]:
I keep messing around long enough. You know, I mean, secure. I walked out of my driveway. You know, it looked normal, but, you know, the whole thing we get, like, freezing fog.
Scott Cowan [01:09:15]:
Uh-huh.
John Tillison [01:09:16]:
Yeah. When I landed down and cracked a rib
Scott Cowan [01:09:19]:
— Mhmm. —
John Tillison [01:09:20]:
I was like, yeah. Maybe I should think about this.
Scott Cowan [01:09:25]:
So so it’s it’s we moved to what actually in 2017. Right? And — Uh-huh. — and some of our friends lived here, or they they were living here. They don’t want to live here anymore. And they, you know, they they’re not we didn’t move here because of them, but we moved here because they were so enthusiastic about the area. And I was looking to get away from the traffic. of the Seattle Tacoma area and all of a sudden, the rain and the gray. Anyway, so we move over here and then a couple of years later, 3 years later, they go. Yep. We’re gonna sell. Why? We’re sick of the snow. And I’m like, really? I still kinda like it. Well, last year, 2022, I did not like we got we got almost 3 feet in one day here. And then it froze and stuck around. And I felt like Jack Nicholson and the Shining. I just couldn’t leave my house, and I was I was not happy.
John Tillison [01:10:15]:
And then
Scott Cowan [01:10:15]:
it then it snowed in, you know, and then it snowed in April. Right?
John Tillison [01:10:20]:
And, you
Scott Cowan [01:10:20]:
know, we got a foot of snow, like, on April 13th. My birthday is April 12th, and we my my wife threw a surprise birthday party for me, and it was snow in snow. I mean, I’m kinda with you. The whole snowblower thing. I’m yeah. Okay. But I had a lot
John Tillison [01:10:36]:
of fun with you know, and I worked at Snow Parks for years, I can tell you an awesome story to be a park ranger doing snowmobile patrols and stuff like that.
Scott Cowan [01:10:44]:
Right. Yeah.
John Tillison [01:10:44]:
Crosscut your skiing and social you step in. You know, when we get older as we age, you know, and you start crossing in the fifties, you know, and you’ve had load out knees and stuff, That cold weather is not as fun.
Scott Cowan [01:10:57]:
No. No. It’s not. No. I I I agree with you. —
John Tillison [01:11:00]:
start to hit that they understand.
Scott Cowan [01:11:03]:
I I I agree with you. But so I think what I told you on the phone was that, you know, growing up as a kid in Tacoma, we thought we thought we looked down on Spokane, which is just kind of funny that Tacoma would look down on anything. But, Exactly. So it just seems really it just seems really funny that Tacoma would look down on anything. But we look down on Spokane, but going there now, I think Spokane I think Spokane is a great town, great city. I don’t know. It doesn’t quite seem like a city to me in the sense like New York or Chicago or Seattle, but it’s not like Wenatchee.
John Tillison [01:11:43]:
No. Well, Spokane County. over 500,000. Yeah.
Scott Cowan [01:11:46]:
There’s just a lot of people. This is
John Tillison [01:11:48]:
a pretty good size. Right.
Scott Cowan [01:11:50]:
I you have a great coffee scene. There’s some great coffee there. where’d your go to coffee place? Yeah. You’re drinking out of it. By the way, he’s drinking out of a Mount Rainier coffee mug folks. So he’s he’s playing along with the theme of the show.
John Tillison [01:12:04]:
so I’m a true park ranger. Park rangers like your coffee. Right.
Scott Cowan [01:12:08]:
So where do you go for coffee in Spokane?
John Tillison [01:12:10]:
You know, my favorite little place, just up the road from you. Really Tom Sammer. I asked my kinda my little go to. It’s kinda a little cold up here. you know, I mean, I could go get to Starbucks. I mean, everybody knows that in Washington, but you know, I definitely I like the Thomas Hammers, a really good coffee. And there’s a lot of little small coffee shops and stuff now. I can’t even tell you all of them, but,
Scott Cowan [01:12:36]:
yeah, then when you go when you go for coffee, what do you get?
John Tillison [01:12:40]:
I like to strip like coffee.
Scott Cowan [01:12:42]:
as it should be.
John Tillison [01:12:43]:
And I I I just like a good light roast.
Scott Cowan [01:12:51]:
Really?
John Tillison [01:12:52]:
You know, like, real testimony is concentration caffeine. Right?
Scott Cowan [01:12:55]:
Yeah. I know, but I like I just like the dark I like my coffee so that I can stand a spoon up in it.
John Tillison [01:13:01]:
Yeah. I like to drink coffee all day long and get the caffeine out of it. Yeah. Alright. Well,
Scott Cowan [01:13:07]:
I can’t really you’re you’re a coffee drinker. We we can agree.
John Tillison [01:13:10]:
you know,
Scott Cowan [01:13:11]:
we should I
John Tillison [01:13:11]:
I love coffee. I’ve been in co I’m drinking coffee all we’re looking at Kopi Loo walk in Volley. You know, that’s the one where the little rodent needs it. Kinda go to their system and — Uh-huh. That’s really, really good, by the way.
Scott Cowan [01:13:26]:
I’ll take your word for it.
John Tillison [01:13:28]:
you know what? I I would drink it right now if I had some
Scott Cowan [01:13:30]:
— I I believe you. I and I would too, but it’s still kinda —
John Tillison [01:13:33]:
It’s truly amazing. Yeah. Yeah. you know, but I’ve had a Nick Heraguib is was Nick Heraguib had down to there. I even got Louis of Columbia. I got some Columbia coffee and
Scott Cowan [01:13:47]:
So you’ve you’ve got it closer to the source than by the time it gets shipped up here in Russia. Yeah. Well, I
John Tillison [01:13:53]:
was in the tourist here, and, you know, when I I I done a Panama Canal here. So, you know, we stopped in Columbia, you know, they had it all safe, you know, for even for Americans to go in. You know, it’s And, you know, I mean, there’s somebody with machine guys about every corner, you know, so they’re they’re gonna make sure that, you know, the 2 or some monies coming in.
Scott Cowan [01:14:09]:
Right?
John Tillison [01:14:11]:
but they also get you set, you know, like, $3 for a bag of coffee, like, well, it’s supposed to be, you know, good deal with it. I’ve got it brought it home. I grounded coffee up, and I used the rest of the beans as a decorative dish in the, thing for, like, you know, you know, how you Cowan put beans in, like, a thing and then put flowers. It was the worst Cowan I’ve ever bought my life or none.
Scott Cowan [01:14:35]:
My my wife went to Honduras. last year. I think it was 2022. And she brought me back some coffee from the little town that she was in. Love my wife. Love coffee. Yeah. It was terrible. I drink I would drink Folgers over it. It was — Oh. —
John Tillison [01:14:56]:
and I
Scott Cowan [01:14:57]:
know my wife’s gonna listen to this, and she’ll be, you know, she’ll be don’t be mad. It was the gesture. She brought me she brought me back with us. She brought me back scotch from France, though. So I mean, she’s, you know, I mean, she she could do no wrong. So Right. So where’s a great place in Spokane for lunch?
John Tillison [01:15:15]:
Oh, man. For sandwiches, there’s I love Cruces. Man, you can get they’ve got a couple sandwiches there. One’s called the godfather. Another one’s Italian style. Both of them You’re not gonna go wrong. You’re not gonna go hungry. So That’s the sandwich shop.
Scott Cowan [01:15:35]:
Now they sound similar to me, though. I mean, they’re both you know, I’m thinking so what what’s what what are they?
John Tillison [01:15:44]:
the godfather has turkey, a little bit of everything in it.
Scott Cowan [01:15:48]:
Right.
John Tillison [01:15:49]:
And then the god or the Italian style has got more pepperoni, slimy.
Scott Cowan [01:15:54]:
Okay.
John Tillison [01:15:55]:
the, you know, the more of that bread.
Scott Cowan [01:15:57]:
More of the meat.
John Tillison [01:15:58]:
Both of them are yeah. Both really good sandwiches.
Scott Cowan [01:16:01]:
okay.
John Tillison [01:16:02]:
You know, if I’m in a good mood for something Italian or, Irish Conley’s down in the valley is really good.
Scott Cowan [01:16:09]:
Really?
John Tillison [01:16:10]:
I like that. I’ve I’ve had good labs too down here and have a guinness and labs too. I have ours. So, you know,
Scott Cowan [01:16:16]:
I’m — Yeah. I know.
John Tillison [01:16:17]:
That’d be great. I love Germany’s. I love going to Doth’s Pinehouse
Scott Cowan [01:16:21]:
— Okay. —
John Tillison [01:16:22]:
up in the north side that, the guy there, I think he actually come from Bavarian, grain zones, sausages in house.
Scott Cowan [01:16:29]:
Uh-huh. Wow.
John Tillison [01:16:30]:
So, yeah, it’s a pretty good place. I really like that one too. Okay. And, and then, a new one that well, it’s new to here, but, you know, barbecue itself, it just came it came from trade cities. You might have might have heard of his pork I’m
Scott Cowan [01:16:44]:
I’m sorry. I was coughing, and I I even though I muted myself. I didn’t hear you.
John Tillison [01:16:49]:
I started in Tri Cities. I got 3 restaurants there. for Barbecue. It just moved to the north side as Spokane. It’s called Porter. Oh, they purchased
Scott Cowan [01:17:01]:
Spokane?
John Tillison [01:17:02]:
It got its place in Spokane now.
Scott Cowan [01:17:04]:
Oh. You
John Tillison [01:17:04]:
know what I’m talking about?
Scott Cowan [01:17:05]:
I do.
John Tillison [01:17:06]:
You know, I appreciate good barbecue, and that’s some good barbecue.
Scott Cowan [01:17:10]:
Porters is great. I didn’t know that they — Fantastic.
John Tillison [01:17:14]:
So they just don’t come on the north side up, almost up towards Target. Right here on the corner of Holland in, I guess, Tillison or whatever
Scott Cowan [01:17:22]:
in here. Okay.
John Tillison [01:17:24]:
So, yeah, they’re they’re that’s a good local establishment. Well, I I would consider Yeah.
Scott Cowan [01:17:30]:
That’s local. I mean, but it’s it’s good barbecue. My goal my goal when I travel is to always eat somewhere I can’t eat at home.
John Tillison [01:17:37]:
And so
Scott Cowan [01:17:38]:
living in Wenatchee, it’s really easy because, you know, we don’t have that many restaurants to choose from. So going to Spokane, it’s not hard The only the only exception I have is I will go to Starbucks because I always know their bathrooms are clean.
John Tillison [01:17:48]:
Oh, yeah.
Scott Cowan [01:17:49]:
Yeah. And and they become the modern gas station, if you will. in that sense to me, and their coffee’s fine. But, I always — They’re
John Tillison [01:17:55]:
regular coffee’s fine. I, you know, I I try to stick away from the sugary things, just like that. I’ve been by a lot of this.
Scott Cowan [01:18:03]:
What do you guys like to do for fun and recreation around Spokane?
John Tillison [01:18:07]:
Lumitter, I mean, you know, We do a lot of works. We travel a lot.
Scott Cowan [01:18:12]:
Mhmm.
John Tillison [01:18:12]:
And, you know, being especially since hitting the parks, you know, I I like to hit all the different parks, I I’ve been to a lot of them. I’ll go visit. You know, I mean, like I said, I worked at Riverside Knoxville.
Scott Cowan [01:18:24]:
Mhmm.
John Tillison [01:18:28]:
Lower. The big part is what we’re calling.
Scott Cowan [01:18:33]:
Well, that’s okay. But, you know, if you the thing about work is if you enjoy what you’re doing, it’s it’s it’s it’s enjoyable. It’s not a bad thing. Right?
John Tillison [01:18:42]:
I Well, the crazy thing is when I started this blog, I started 5 years ago, by the way, a little five and a half years ago.
Scott Cowan [01:18:48]:
Right.
John Tillison [01:18:49]:
And like I said, I felt like I had something to still tell.
Scott Cowan [01:18:52]:
Right.
John Tillison [01:18:52]:
And, you know, and put in my insight in the park ranger twist on it.
Scott Cowan [01:18:57]:
Mhmm.
John Tillison [01:18:57]:
And it’s given me a real excuse in a fire to go see all the parks. Yeah. And and I’ve kinda made that my mission. Like I said, I looked like 300 other national park sites now. So That’s been kind of my big thing. It’s really exploring the parks. And, so I haven’t spent as much time as I normally would.
Scott Cowan [01:19:18]:
Right. But
John Tillison [01:19:19]:
I feel like I’ve kind of explored a lot of spook in too, like I said.
Scott Cowan [01:19:23]:
Now in your in your in your bio on your site, you you mentioned you have a love of baseball.
John Tillison [01:19:30]:
So do you
Scott Cowan [01:19:31]:
go to Spokane games?
John Tillison [01:19:33]:
I do go to some of the Indian games. I grew up playing baseball, so that’s just kind of one of my the sport I enjoyed playing the most. Right. watching. I’ve been to the mariners, watched several mariners, came.
Scott Cowan [01:19:43]:
Mhmm.
John Tillison [01:19:44]:
You know? Yeah. I I love baseball.
Scott Cowan [01:19:47]:
Yeah. There’s a there’s, yeah, it’s a it’s a great it’s a great game. It’s a great sport. They’re supposed
John Tillison [01:19:52]:
to be booed in a quite a renovation on the stadium now too. So
Scott Cowan [01:19:56]:
— That’s what I heard. I did I did read something about that. Yes. I did read something that they were going to be doing that. And that’s that’s short season single a. Right?
John Tillison [01:20:05]:
think they went to long season single a now.
Scott Cowan [01:20:08]:
Okay. There’s they’re playing against the Tri City dust devils, if I remember correctly.
John Tillison [01:20:14]:
I think this last year, they moved to a a long season a, and maybe Tri Cities moved with them or something. I don’t know.
Scott Cowan [01:20:20]:
I think —
John Tillison [01:20:20]:
But you know how that always ebbs and flows the chain? at one time, we had AAA. You know? Right.
Scott Cowan [01:20:25]:
No. Absolutely. Yeah. You did.
John Tillison [01:20:28]:
that’s when Portland lost them, their baseball team.
Scott Cowan [01:20:31]:
Well, they have the Portland has the Portland pickles now. Yeah. Right. In the West Coast league, which is when he actually has a team in the West Coast league. And — Have you
John Tillison [01:20:40]:
seen that movie about the Portland average?
Scott Cowan [01:20:43]:
I have I’ve I’m aware of it. I have never seen it yet.
John Tillison [01:20:46]:
That is worthwhile That’s really
Scott Cowan [01:20:48]:
I have heard that. Yes. I’ve I’ve heard that. What that was yeah. A semi semi fictionalized true account, if you will, of of what they in they went through. So
John Tillison [01:20:57]:
Right. Okay.
Scott Cowan [01:20:59]:
Well, as we wrap this up, this is the these are my get out of jail free questions. Tillison this one’s very important. Cake or pie, and why?
John Tillison [01:21:13]:
Key Lion pie, particularly. K. Now, again, I grew up, you know, my dad’s side of the family’s down south. I grew up in Florida.
Scott Cowan [01:21:23]:
Right. And
John Tillison [01:21:23]:
that’s what I fell in love with key lime. And that’s always been my my thing.
Scott Cowan [01:21:28]:
That’s your thing.
John Tillison [01:21:29]:
Give me you give me a piece of key lime pie. Any cake in the world, I don’t take the key lime pie.
Scott Cowan [01:21:34]:
Wow.
John Tillison [01:21:34]:
That’s that’s my jam.
Scott Cowan [01:21:36]:
Wow. I think I think you’ve just set the record for fastest answer. It’s so funny. People get stumped on that one so much. It’s It’s like, I’ve asked them, you know, you know, water or air. Okay. Last last question really is what didn’t I ask you that I should have? What didn’t because this is a wide ranging conversation. What didn’t I ask you that we should be talk we should have talked about?
John Tillison [01:22:03]:
you know, I think the number one question I get asked, I get asked all the time. is how do I become a park ranger?
Scott Cowan [01:22:11]:
Oh, okay.
John Tillison [01:22:12]:
Yeah. That’s a good random question. There’s probably somebody possibly Tillison, kinda curious about that. And, you know, and it’s a little bit different path for everybody, but, you know, I I got a degree in natural resource management. And, and I, I also got a business minor because I, you know, I was foreseeing thinking, you know, eventually moving into management. You know, I wanted to have that information to you. And then, I went to law enforcement academy, and and there’s an actual parts academy in at Scratch Valley College, and that’s where I went to from my academy. How
Scott Cowan [01:22:49]:
long how long is that academy? How long does that take?
John Tillison [01:22:52]:
Now I’m not sure how many hours it is. I think it’s approximately about
Scott Cowan [01:22:56]:
7:58:100
John Tillison [01:22:57]:
hours, I think. Okay. So
Scott Cowan [01:22:59]:
John Tillison [01:22:59]:
yes. It’s from the up here on us, but, you know, it is a it’s a good but 3 months of your life is — Okay.
Scott Cowan [01:23:05]:
John Tillison [01:23:05]:
in towards doing it. And, it’s long and it’s fast and It’s a lot of work, but you get through it. You know? Yeah.
Scott Cowan [01:23:16]:
Okay.
John Tillison [01:23:17]:
And, but I done that. I started working as a seasonal employee as how I kinda got my foot in the door. Kinda got a reputation, which is always a good thing. You know?
Scott Cowan [01:23:27]:
Mhmm. I
John Tillison [01:23:27]:
mean, because, you know, when somebody knows who they are, it helps.
Scott Cowan [01:23:31]:
Right. Right. Well, and then if you’re putting out fires at, you know, 1 AM with a, you know, that’ll that’ll.
John Tillison [01:23:39]:
wake up and that you got to sleep at night. probably a good thing. Right? There you go.
Scott Cowan [01:23:44]:
But, you
John Tillison [01:23:45]:
know, you you’re in your right as knowing that you’re a hard worker, you, you know, you’re not a knucklehead. You know, you you can listen to direction. All like, yeah, you know, easy to get along with. I I tell people that all the time. What’s the most when everybody asked me, what’s the most important feature I always look for? Mhmm. I should always look for attitudes. I mean, I Cowan train skills. Right. I could teach can teach you the button to clean the bathroom, but you can’t teach somebody to have a great attitude when they come to work. And, you know, when you when you’re happy and you go to work year round of bunch of people that are fun to work with. Man, that makes all the difference. World, you can be going to Monday job, but when everybody’s fun to have the great time, it makes all difference. You know?
Scott Cowan [01:24:23]:
Absolutely.
John Tillison [01:24:24]:
And, so I always told people that as I get a chance to, you know, let them get to know who you are. and you got a much better chance to get the job that way. And Cowan you get some work experience on top of it? Okay. And, if if you don’t have work experience, Try the volunteer a little bit of time. You know, they’re always looking for volunteers and parks and,
Scott Cowan [01:24:45]:
you
John Tillison [01:24:45]:
know, anything you can do to help out. I mean, that’s that’s a good chance to get known and who you are.
Scott Cowan [01:24:51]:
I think that’s great
John Tillison [01:24:52]:
advice. Great advice for anybody trying to get in.
Scott Cowan [01:24:56]:
Okay. So if the audience wants to find you online, park rangerjohn.com, but what social what social media do you, do you use?
John Tillison [01:25:08]:
I’ve I’ve got a very active Facebook, PH, and I’ve got Facebook group too that’s a very active group. I kinda let people run that themselves and kinda they get this is their chance where they get to post their photos and go on in on different things and stuff. Mhmm. people love that. I mean, it’s, you know, because they love sharing their parks, going to the parks, just as much as I do. Right. And they’re self policing. I love it because every once in a while, somebody will try to put a polo collater or something like that. And, man, they’re quick to, like, then there’s a blog here. We’re reporting you, and they they they want them off just as quick as I do. Wow.
Scott Cowan [01:25:45]:
Okay.
John Tillison [01:25:46]:
Something’s pretty funny as I I don’t have any problems there because everybody loves parks. So it’s a great place to go if you like parts too. I also have a Twitter. I’m a I’m a little bit on Twitter, but I do a lot of Facebook. I’ve got some Instagram. I put, like, some pretty photos up on that one and, I got Pinterest account where I got a bunch of photos and leads to articles and stuff to you. And, I even started playing a little bit on TikTok just because it’s where a lot of people have gone. So I’ve got about a dozen videos up now. I mean, I’ll slowly add to it as I keep going, but You know?
Scott Cowan [01:26:22]:
Do you how do you like creating on TikTok?
John Tillison [01:26:26]:
I don’t mind it. It just takes time. and the quite a the hardest thing I have right now limiting me is time. And, what I’m finding out is I thought it would be pretty easy to keep up with parks because they’re pretty evergreen. You know, you know, parks are parked. They got trails. They got, you know, all this stuff, but, like, here lately, I getting inundated with questions about Yosemite because we got 15 feet of snow all of a sudden. You know, it looks like another 2 feet on the way, and everybody’s asking me how the summer’s gonna be and You know, all this stuff in the line. Well, we’ll have to see how this plays out. You know?
Scott Cowan [01:27:02]:
Right. Right. I don’t have it.
John Tillison [01:27:04]:
I don’t have a crystal ball for that one. Right.
Scott Cowan [01:27:06]:
And you gotta be careful because you’re not you’re you’re you’re a a fan of the parks. You’re not a a spokesperson for park. So you gotta you gotta you gotta, you know, add that disclaimer. Well, I don’t know if you have to, but you probably are adding a disclaimer saying the you know, this is my opinion. Yeah.
John Tillison [01:27:24]:
It’s my opinion. Correct. Right. Yeah.
Scott Cowan [01:27:26]:
Well, you
John Tillison [01:27:27]:
can just never tell.
Scott Cowan [01:27:28]:
Right. No. And then, Yeah. So people can find you on I’ll and we’ll put links in the show notes to to your social channels and all that to your website. anything else you wanna close with?
John Tillison [01:27:40]:
No. I mean, if you want anything about parks, come check it out. And, like I said, I’ve I’ve talked about a lot of parks now. So chance you want to find some information And, if you don’t find it there, send me a message.
Scott Cowan [01:27:54]:
Well, I like, I’ve I’ve kid you about the blister, but you there’s just there’s hundreds. There’s just hundreds.
John Tillison [01:28:01]:
Well, you know, and the funny thing is from what I started, what I started doing to what I’m doing now, I changed quite a bit. I’ve learned over the years because I was very yogi bear when I first started,
Scott Cowan [01:28:13]:
you know,
John Tillison [01:28:14]:
parts and flowers. No money. I need to get some people content too if, you know, what, you know, is not installed pretty trees and stuff like that on it. Maybe give them some really usable, tangible stuff. And when they come in, they feel prepared. So I’ve really kinda changed it around a little bit, but now I find myself having to go back and update articles when you got that many articles, that’s a lot of work to go back and go reupdate everything. Yep. And then you find out little things like they changed in the they had a new part I gotta change these things. It has the state landing pages, the the main landing page, you know, or, you know, something happens like Yosemite. It’s closed now like, Death Valley last year when they had the massive floods and they had to close entire park because of the flooding and, you know, trying to keep up with a little bit of that stuff too, you know.
Scott Cowan [01:29:03]:
Yeah. And they’re probably they’re probably not notifying you that, hey, we changed the hours of operation or, hey, we’re changing our price. You you you’ve you gotta be out there.
John Tillison [01:29:15]:
Absolutely.
Scott Cowan [01:29:16]:
Yeah. I just because I’m on your I’m on the article about the, the US National Park Pass, which You know?
John Tillison [01:29:22]:
Oh, no.
Scott Cowan [01:29:23]:
You know, okay. So I’m gonna put a link to that. — 3
John Tillison [01:29:27]:
days. And some days, it changes what days they have off and everything else. Yeah. Yeah. I’m gonna I’m
Scott Cowan [01:29:34]:
gonna link, I’m gonna put a link to the park pass on the on the page because that’s something people should we should have talked about it, but, Oh, is this?
John Tillison [01:29:43]:
Well, that Cowan always be another issue right there.
Scott Cowan [01:29:46]:
There we go. There we go. So John, thank you so much. Taking the time to sit down and and chat with me. And I hope your cat is okay.
John Tillison [01:29:55]:
Oh, I’m sure. He’s as on music. I don’t
Scott Cowan [01:30:01]:
know if you heard my dog was scratching at my door trying to get in. I had to text wife to say, hey, go get get the dog because I it’ll break through the door. Anyway, I will let you go. You have a great, evening, and I really appreciate being on.
John Tillison [01:30:17]:
You bet. Thanks a lot.
