Rocks, Ridges, and Radical Shifts: CWU’s Nick Zentner on the Geologic Wonders of Washington

What do Missoula floods, lava flows, and ancient Mexican granite have in common? According to CWU’s Nick Zentner—everything.

In this fascinating conversation, Professor Nick Zentner of Central Washington University breaks down Washington’s geology in a way that’s anything but boring. From hiking Saddle Rock in Wenatchee to uncovering the mystery of how Mount Stuart’s granite traveled 2,000 miles from Baja, Zentner weaves science, storytelling, and humor into a truly unforgettable episode.

We explore how Ice Age floods shaped the landscape, what lies beneath places like Drumheller Channels and Dry Falls, and why geology is much more than memorizing rock types—it’s a window into time, movement, and mystery.

Whether you’re a geology nerd or just curious about the land beneath your feet, this episode is a must-listen.

Nick Zentner Episode Transcript

Scott Cowan [00:00:18]:

Welcome to the Exploring Washington State podcast. Here’s your host, Scott Cowan. hey, everybody. This is Scott with exploring Washington State. And today, my guest is Professor Nick Zentner at Central Washington University. And, Nick, why don’t you introduce yourself? You’ll do better than I will. Well, thanks, Scott. It’s a pleasure to be with you.

Nick Zentner [00:00:40]:

I met you what was it? 2 minutes ago.

Scott Cowan [00:00:43]:

And — It’s been a long time.

Nick Zentner [00:00:47]:

I teach geology here at the college in Ellensburg. I understand you went to the school for a while. Yes. Yes. I did. Before I was here, I I arrived in in 1992, and I’ve I’m I’m kind of the old man of the department now, and I’m I’m chugging along with with my teaching, but I’ve been doing more and more public outreach type things. Kinda most of it just for myself. but it’s kind of gotten hardwired into my job description as well. So I’m I’m teaching, and I’m also doing a variety of things for the public, and it’s a it’s a real pleasant thing.

Scott Cowan [00:01:24]:

So what got you started doing the the public outreach, if you will? What What was the inspiration there? It’s a good question

Nick Zentner [00:01:31]:

because it’s not a common thing in my world, my academic world. You know, there’s very set rules when you work at a university, especially if you have a PhD, which I do not. I stopped at master’s degree because I kinda saw where the PhD world would be heading for me, which was a rather kind of confined and rigid world, and I I just had a natural interest in communicating this amazing geology stuff to a broad audience. I felt like that was just missing. Even early on when I was a student, I just thought, well, this is I’m sure people would love to hear about this. and especially before the Internet or programs like yours or websites like you’re running, it was just there was no effort put in, very little effort to put into communicating what science is. So that was always in the back of my mind, and then one thing led to another and and and here we are.

Scott Cowan [00:02:31]:

So I’ve because we met 2 minutes ago or now it’s 4 minutes ago. we’ve doubled our time together. Feels like a woman. It’s — I yeah. So last night, I I happened to probably near the end of your livestream pop on, and you were at Saddle Rock in Wenatchee, up walking around. And I live right by there, and yet I’ve not climbed to where you are yet. So here you are. You’re you’re out. You’re doing a livestream while hiking, which I applaud you for because the paramedics would be pulling me off off the mountain side because I I need to get more. But what okay. Living center of the state. it’s pretty easy to get to anywhere in our state from Ellensburg. Correct. And so that’s to me kind of an interesting point about the Wenatchee in Ellensburg area is that, you know, really we’re 3 hours away from just about anything from the ocean, Mount Rainier, to to the the plains. And I’m looking at your saddle times. There’s a sail times article that was done in 17, and you’re sitting in front of elephant mountain lava flow. east of East of Ellensburg, where is that? Just help me with that. Where is that at? One of my favorite places. It’s a it’s called the Drumheller Channels.

Nick Zentner [00:03:45]:

So the nearest little town is Othello. So south of Moses Lake, kinda northwest of Othello, and it’s it’s It’s otherwise known as the Columbia wildlife refuge, but it’s it’s it’s protected land and it is a very important place. Geologically, it’s where a guy named Jay Harland Brett’s a 100 years ago was out walking around on foot and was finding all this amazing evidence for a tremendous flood during the ice age, and he started publishing his papers in the night 18 twenties, and he was an academic. He worked at the University of Chicago. He had all this amazing field evidence. And for most of his life, nobody believed him that there was a nice age flood and Drumheller Channels that place with those crazy rock columns and these potholes. And if people know o’Sullivan dam or they go out to Mar Don and they’re It’s just it’s just to the south of there. It’s one of my favorite places, and it’s one of many, many very unique places. As you say, not very far away from us here in Central Washington.

Scott Cowan [00:04:50]:

Right. I mean, it’s it’s it’s pretty fascinating. I drive so I know very little about this topic. So but I I wanna ask you. So I drive out to Coulee Dam. Okay. And so I go out Banks Lake, what what would you call that? What what is that right there? Is it Anyway, it looks very strange to me. It does not look like it belongs to the state’s topography at all. It it looks I almost feel like know, it’s a what what what happened there and help me out because I’m stumbling over my words. But This is perfect. That area You are a natural geologist

Nick Zentner [00:05:30]:

right here, Scott. because all it takes is a certain eye to go, well, this place looks weird. I wonder what happened here, and that’s just the beginning. And then If you take some geology classes or now you’re able to watch livestreams or geology videos or read papers on your own, You can kinda teach yourself. Yeah. The drive from basically Coulee City up to Coulee Dam. You’re going up through the upper Grand Coulee and that valley is also famous because of its shape. The the floor is perfectly flat, the walls are perfectly vertical. And for a long time, geologist would visit that place and go, what in the hell happened here? I don’t understand. This is not like the Wenatchee River Valley. This is not like the Columbia River Gorge down by Portland. This is not like someplace over by Spokane. And, again, it’s an ice age flood story that dry falls. I know you maybe stop and use the restroom to dry falls or buy yourself an ice cream cone or whatever. I don’t know what your route is to go from Wenatchee up to Coolly Damma. What is your route? You stop the direct calls? Typically

Scott Cowan [00:06:44]:

no. I’ve never been to direct calls. So when I go typically, I go up When actually you go to Waterville — Oh, okay. — was a highway highway 2? Is it yeah. So I go Highway 2 to Coulee City, and then I just follow it along up to Coulee Dam Electric City. Well, while dry falls is about a mile south

Nick Zentner [00:07:03]:

of Coulee City. So if you just hang a right down state route 17, basically hang a right from that area and and start heading towards Salt Lake. You’ll there’s a pull out there, and it’s a for many people, especially going north south. That’s an obvious place to stop. It’s called Dry Falls State Park. And Dry Falls is where there used to be a huge waterfall. as the name implies. And so a huge a series of water Missoula floods came down through the upper Grand Coulee where Banks Lake is today. That used to be a dry valley. There were orchards there back a 100 years ago, etcetera. But back you know, 15000, 16000 years ago. There was amazing amounts of ice age floodwater coming down. And the whole the whole point is those are two places. Now drama heller channels and now the banks like kind of grand coulee where you have a very specific geology story that is awe inspiring and and captures people of his imagination, and that’s just the tip of the iceberg. No pun intended. So we can go, you know, your canyon, there’s a story there. Saddle Rock, we’re hiking last night above Wenatchee. There’s specific story there. Mount Stewart, rock that came from Mexico. I mean,

Scott Cowan [00:08:21]:

it’s — What? Wait. Mount Stewart, came from Mexico. Flip’s that one in there. You’re No. You’re gonna you’re gonna please share please share. Yeah. How do we get back to Mexico? I don’t understand. — tune me out yet. That’s good.

Nick Zentner [00:08:36]:

Okay. Okay. You’re a good you’re a good host. Yeah. I mean, the some of these stories are almost impossible to absorb at first first. Listen. There was a geology professor at Western over in Bellingham in the late 19 sixties, and he started banging around on the granite of Mount Stewart in the Stuart Range and the Enchantments.

Scott Cowan [00:09:04]:

Are you familiar where I’m talking now? I am from I am familiar with the Enchantments, yes.

Nick Zentner [00:09:10]:

So his name was Murrow Beck, and Murrow started sampling that granite in studying the alignment of the magnetic minerals that are in the granite. So the granite of Mount Stewart and the rest of the Stuart range is ninety three million years old. And so that means that it used to be molten magma underground, and it cooled slowly and to form this granite. But the magical thing is You can study a granite, Paleomagnetically, make these measurements with this this this magnetite mineral. and determine the ancient latitude on the earth where that granite actually cooled, went from liquid to solid. And so you go, okay. Well, I’m sure his answer must have been, you know, 47 Degrees North Latitude like we are now. Well, it turns out it was 23 Degrees North Latitude, which is present day Baja, Mexico. And so he started publishing papers saying, look. This granite now in the enchantments, actually formed in Mexico and then was moved gradually by San Andreas felt like earthquakes, almost two thousand miles to come up here in freaking Chelan County. And everybody said the guy was nuts. And here we are, 40, 50 years later, 40 years, I guess, approaching 40. No. It was his first paper was in 1970. So, yeah, 50 years ago. This year’s gonna — — now there’s a whole bunch of evidence, not just that paleomagnetic evidence to confirm that, in fact, the true that there are many locations in Western Washington, in particular. Swakane Biotite Gneiss. Just north of Wenatchee, that that Was it Birch Mountain? You go up kinda in that subdivision just north. I’m trying struggling with Easy Street. Easy Street. Yes. Easy Street. North Easy Street, and that’s that prominent peak north of Wenatchee, that is stuff that was way down south and will got moved. I mean, it’s so you get you can get people pretty easily into this theology world that If those that took a geology class long ago, you know, it’s a science class, and here’s here’s what the definition of an and to cite love. You know, it’s all this kind of names and you’re like learning a foreign language, and there’s not a whole lot of captivating stuff, but I I and many of others have kind of fallen into this visual story type approach which is based in science, but it can it can grab a whole bunch of people, not just kind of science nerds.

Scott Cowan [00:11:53]:

Okay. So if the stewards

Nick Zentner [00:11:56]:

Well, he’s processing. Now this is good. I can see it.

Scott Cowan [00:11:59]:

If the Stewart were formed in Baja. What we know is Baja. Right. And now they’re here. Wouldn’t that to me, wouldn’t that mean that all the rocks between there and the Stewart’s would have been pushed up as well? I mean — Yes. Mhmm.

Nick Zentner [00:12:19]:

Okay. So it’s not There’s only one isolated little patch of ground. So the the concept is called Baja b c. if you google baja b c, geology, you’ll find all sorts of papers and stuff. So most — Okay. — most of the land that was originally in Baja is now in BC, British Columbia. And we’re just, you know, the trailing edge of this of this block of material. But the trick And how many how many how many years ago Well, that’s that’s the whole thing. So you you have to be in a particular window of time for this story to work. And so — k. — you know, folks that kinda take the bait with this, now they’re going, oh, god. They’re looking at every oh, I see Bob. How do you see everywhere? How’s how’s fly fishing? I saw Bob. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. So it’s between 8560. Between 85 60000000 years ago is when this 2000 miles of movement happened, and you’re like it’s like, well, let me grab a napkin here. Let me let me pencil this out. Is this even possible?

Scott Cowan [00:13:28]:

you know, and you start — I’ve got my note not over here. You can’t really see me, but I’m I’m quietly trying to jog. No. Thanks.

Nick Zentner [00:13:35]:

Good. Yeah. You have to you have to scan your notes and send it to me. I’ll grade it for you.

Scott Cowan [00:13:41]:

Oh, great.

Nick Zentner [00:13:43]:

But the the idea is that We have known land shifting measurements on the San Andreas Fault in Cali each time there’s a big earthquake on a segment of the San Andreas fault, the west side of the fault shifts north, you know, 10, 15 feet compared to the other side. So if you’ve got 25,000,000 years worth of time and you and you do these little San Andreas Fault like earthquakes one at a time, you really can move cross that much, that far. Yeah. And so, yeah, that’s the so that’s So are we keeping track now? We got a couple Missoula floods things, which is like — So what’s a Missoula flood? What’s a Missoula flood? because I’m thinking Montana. As you should. So during the ice age, the glaciers were huge. There was an ice sheet covering all of Canada. That ice got down into Northern Washington, and it pondered a bunch of water in Western Montana. We call it Glacier Lake, Missoula. And so many of the valleys of Western Montana were under standing water, and there was an ice dam in Northern Idaho. if you know, SandPoint or Lake Ponder Ray, that’s kind of ground 0 for that. Okay. And then there finally enough water in Glacier Lake, Missoula, to break the ice dam, and there was a catastrophic draining of the water in my Tana, and that water came down the grand cooler. That water came through drumheller channels. and we know there were dozens of these floods that didn’t just happen once. Okay. So one of the Scott, one of the recipes here you’ve already gotten to be kind of into this, and that is you know some of these places. You’ve done that drive up to Cooley Dam. You’ve You I don’t know. Whatever. You know, you’re driving to the store or something else, and you see so these these places are landmarks that many of us know quite well. And so you’re already interested in the topic because I’m talking about these places you have maybe some personal history And then if you throw in a couple of these stories with some some new ways to think about it, it really grabs folks.

Scott Cowan [00:16:02]:

So I grew up in the Tacoma area. And so so as a kid in the sixties seventies, you know, because everything revolves around the west side of the state, you know, that the east side doesn’t exist. But we really just think of the cascades. You know, we just think of Baker, Rainier, St. Helens and all of that. And then and then St. Helens did her thing in 179 or 80 80. 19 8. And when I came over to college into Ellensburg, It looks very different in Ellensburg than it does in Western Washington. And then driving around in my, you know, The Ellensburg area has, you know, the Manastash and going down to Yakima through the to the Yakima Canyon and all of that. I didn’t get out much when I was in college because I was a college kid. Now driving, say, from from home in Wenatchee down to Tri Cities, that’s kind of an interesting thing. Sure. going back over across into Western Washington and looking, say, at and I’m drawing a blank as to what the mountain is and the Olympics not really a mountain. They call it a mountain, but it’s, I think, what, 8000 well, it’s 8000. What is it it just so to me, the topography of the state of Washington is is is radically different where wherever you go. And it’s it’s kind of a very interesting and very diverse place. Your your Disneyland reference is actually like, yeah, I can kinda see that. But I guess my my thought, my very layman’s thought was always that the somehow the Columbia River was the key to all of this. And and I don’t know. I mean, What do you mean to know about the Colombian? How it’s how it’s me entered across the state? And and what what is it done? And how does that impact anything or does it? There’s another story with another set of ideas. So

Nick Zentner [00:17:48]:

the Columbia as we understand it today has really no impact on Western Washington. But as far as Eastern Washington is concerned, yeah, the Columbia itself is truly older than much of the rich country that you stay. Oh, That’s backwards from the way most people would think of it. They think, oh, well, the ridge must have been there forever. And then, oh, the Columbia River’s like going right through the ridge. Well, I guess the river must have found a a weak spot in the ridge. Like, let me give you an example, like, Sentinel gap is just south advantage, and the Columbia River heads right for that ridge, south advantage, and it goes right through the freaking ridge. And you’re like, see, I wonder how you know, if you’re thinking like this, you think, well, I wonder what happened there. Well, we have great evidence to to prove that the Columbia River was there when the the whole Eastern Washington was practically flat and that those ridges weren’t there. So the river was there first, and then the ridge started growing, again, earthquakes to uplift that crust and make Saddle Mountains rise on both sides of of the Colombia. Or I could use I could use an example more close to your home. Same story with the No. That’s not true. The Yakima River Canyon, which you mentioned. Same idea is this crazy curving river the Yakima River Between Ellensburg and Yakima, and the Canyon Road therefore is this crazy looping. If you look on a a map, you know, that canyon is squirrely, but it’s cutting right across these ridges. So the river was there first, and then the ridges grew an opposite size.

Scott Cowan [00:19:39]:

You see, if you would have asked me that question, was the river there first or did or it was the river, you know, I would’ve I would’ve guarantee you, I would’ve lost that. I think most would. I think I probably would’ve before. You know, I started studying how

Nick Zentner [00:19:54]:

how you can kinda read the landscape, and that’s kinda what we do here. You know? I I remember one of my first geology field trips. I I’m from Wisconsin And so I I’m here on purpose. You know? This is this is a choice to be here because of all this great stuff. And I’m I’m Wisconsin was a great place to grow up. But I remember my first true field trip was with a glacial geology professor at the University of Wisconsin. We were all in this you know, kind of like an a and a motor coach kind of a thing. So he’s got the microphone up there in the front. You know? and we’re driving around Southern Wisconsin, and he’s talking the entire time. And he’s like, well, look over there. You got that hill. So the ice was there, and and here’s this ice age river that went through that. And he was talking about these places I’ve driven around my whole, you know, 1st 18 years of life. I’d never thought about it. And it it was like he had magical glasses on or something where he could see that there’s nothing. None of us could see anything. And I’m like, I’d like to learn how to do that. That guy is seeing a whole different world, and that’s that’s kinda what we’re talking about here. Now let me ask you a question, Scott. What’s the name of this podcast and the the the site that you are working so hard on.

Scott Cowan [00:21:13]:

Sure. The the podcast name is Exploring Washington State and the the website, believe it or not it’s called Explore Washington State. Now is this is this something that you started recently? The the podcast, absolutely. Yes, depending on when this this is released, it will be in the first 10 episodes. So, yes, very you’re very you’re very early in the evolution of this

Nick Zentner [00:21:40]:

podcast.

Scott Cowan [00:21:41]:

Yeah. Exactly. And the the site’s been going since 2017.

Nick Zentner [00:21:48]:

What was what was your motivation to get that rolling?

Scott Cowan [00:21:51]:

Oh, I hate this question. Really, the motivation was in in 2017, I and I still am a I’m a real estate broker. And the the point was we were gonna spin up these little explore insert explore Ellensburg. Explore Tacoma. And we’re gonna spin up all these little sites with the the hope that people would go to find out more about Tacoma because they were thinking to move there. And then lo and behold, there’d be real estate ads for them to click on and they would buy houses for us. And I

Nick Zentner [00:22:23]:

didn’t feel good about that. Wow.

Scott Cowan [00:22:25]:

I just we don’t get me started on my industry. Let’s just let’s just say I have I I have I’ve been doing a very specific niche of real estate for a decade plus now, and it it doesn’t need me to get buyer leads. Mhmm. So one of my assistants said to me well, hey, why don’t we instead of doing it by the city, why don’t we just do the whole state. And and I did a quick Google’s or went on to GoDaddy and looked. And literally, the domain Explore Washington safe literally just expired. And I and I I purchased it. So we started doing that, and it’s it’s morphed around a little bit. And now the team and I I I have I have 33 editors who put the articles together. We have people that contribute content to us. And then my daughter runs our Instagram people. That’s typically where people find us is on Instagram. And she lives in Europe. And it’s kinda fun that she she gets to work for me from Europe. So she’s she’s raising her children and is getting to stay in touch with home because it’s urgent. Very cool. So we do this. And so the the basic premise of it is is that Washington state’s a pretty amazing place. I don’t think we need another article about the space needle. You you can find and nothing wrong with the space needle and no no disrespect.

Nick Zentner [00:23:58]:

Right. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:23:59]:

You know, so let’s talk about things that you don’t inherently know just because you live in Washington state. So we don’t need to necessarily talk about the space, Neil. Even Mount Rainier, I mean, it’s a beautiful mountain. I do kind of miss seeing in. because I grew up in its shadow. But it’s really well documented. You don’t need a lot of cheerleaders for that. But let’s talk about interesting little places, people that are doing interesting things. Let’s find people like yourself. I mean, like I said, when we started this, I didn’t know who you were, but when I when we send out a request to our to our fans, your name came up. And I’m like, who is this guy? You know? And it was like, And I’m and you’re prolific, though. I mean, you how do you create so much content? What because you’re you’re like, last night, you were live on Saddle Rock, and I gonna guess you’re gonna do something you’re here with us now, and then maybe later today, you’re gonna go do something else. It you know, how do you do it? Well, it it

Nick Zentner [00:24:59]:

specifically, this this project came about because of the pandemic. Okay. So we’re in mid March, and everything shutting down for all of us. Of course, not just in Central Washington. We’re talking about the world pretty much. And I had been you know, I get a lot of feedback from folks from the other kind of projects that I have, and they kept saying, why don’t you do live streaming? That would be kind of fun. I’m like, I don’t know how to do that. I don’t know. Maybe I will. I don’t know. Anyway, when when all this stuff kind of happened in mid March and suddenly my calendar was absolutely open, which unnerved me. I I like to stay busy and productive, and I’m like, good lord. I got what what am I looking at here? The next 4 months or 4 weeks, I’m not doing anything? So I taught myself I’d read a little bit. I sent out some stuff on social media. What should I I’m thinking seriously about live streaming for the first time? Should I go Facebook live or Instagram live or YouTube? And he said, well, I think you got a YouTube channel. Don’t you? I’m like, I don’t know. Maybe I do. I can’t forget. So I decided to start live streaming using my my, you know, my iPhone

Scott Cowan [00:26:17]:

11.

Nick Zentner [00:26:19]:

And I think one of the surprises to many, but I guess not for me anymore is that people want to connect. Yeah. Absolutely. — sure matters we’re talking about geology. They they wanna connect with a a community And if you’re screwing around, fumbling around, something just fell, the the audio isn’t working. You’re you’re getting real time help from people during these livestreams, that on on the that just bonds you more with with who’s watching. And so I started doing these things from my backyard And then I started having guests over in my backyard when when we went to move to phase 2 here in Kittitas County. And then then — k. — again, people are like, hey. Why why don’t you this is working? Why don’t you go out and do a field trip? So I did a big hike over at Frenchman Cooley, and that kinda that worked pretty much, and then I was up on Saddle Mountain last night. And tomorrow morning, I’m actually gonna be back over in your area. with a very special guy, Randy Lewis. I guess this will be posted later, but — Yeah. Later. — so this is So by the time your folks hear this will be after the fact. But Saturday morning, June 6th, I’m gonna be live streaming with Randy Lewis, who’s a a magical guy, Native American, who lives in Wenatchee, and knows all the old stories, and it’s a rare treat to. Oh, wow. That’ll be awesome. I’m looking very much forward to that one. So it it’s like most of the things I’ve done. There’s no plan. I just kinda am willing to try new things, and whether it’s TV or or YouTube lectures or this sort of thing. It’s it’s all just in it it makes me feel like I’m productive and helpful to people, and it there’s just a certain joy to the whole thing.

Scott Cowan [00:28:13]:

Well, you’re you’re a great ambassador for for Central. I think that, you know, you’re just you’re out there and your willingness and you’re put you’re so prolific. You’re you you know, the byproduct of that is that central is being given — more brand awareness if you will. And, you know, second of all, you’re a great ambassador for the state of Washington because the stories that you’ve shared so far just, you know, they’re they’re I’ve lived her all my life, and I had no clue. Well, thank you for that, Scott. And and then I watched once again, let me reemphasize

Nick Zentner [00:28:45]:

we met 30 minutes ago. — ago.

Scott Cowan [00:28:49]:

I I watched one of your videos last night. I I don’t know which one it was. You were in your Backyard. Somebody sent you a box — Oh. — and you opened you opened a box up. So before I continue, I’d like to ask you how gonna guess that that’s not the first box you’ve received from people. Right. How did that come about? The people are mailing you things.

Nick Zentner [00:29:12]:

Well, Over the years, there’s been a lot of effort to monetize what I’m doing. You know, I work with producers of a PBS program for television, and they’re like, oh, we gotta get sponsors. We gotta do this and that. I’m like, I’m not interested in that. And, you know, many of these other things I’ve been doing. And I’m just afraid of the money part of it. Now you’re you’re kind of a you know, you’re a real estate guy. There’s guy, you kinda know your way around that world. I don’t. I’m I’m trained that way. I don’t I the whole thing just intimidates me in I just want it to be as pure as possible. So I was very clear with the folks on this livestream. I mean, there’s now A thousand people watching every night from around the world. They’re literally typing in comments from, you know, all these countries.

Scott Cowan [00:30:02]:

Last night, you’re the you’re the 1st livestream that I’ve I’ve ever watched that the comment thread was fluid. It was just it just — It’s awful. I was I was I was shocked.

Nick Zentner [00:30:20]:

Good for you. So to answer your question, so I I was pretty clear upfront. I I wanna do this. I don’t want any kinda you know, I people are, oh, do the super chat thing. They monetize this. You can get and I’m literally mocking all this advice I got. So, you know, I have, like, fake sponsors. I’m like, this episode brought to you by Vinman’s Bakery in Ellensburg. You know? It’s it’s the whole So and so but yet people many people, they they want to give somehow, and they’re like, okay. So this guy’s not gonna accept money or whatever. I’m gonna I’m gonna send him cookies or I’m gonna bring drop off a bottle of wine. I’m gonna drive through on the way Spokane. And, you know, I’ve been live-streaming enough for my house. They kinda can figure out where I live, basically.

Scott Cowan [00:31:09]:

Oh, that’s pretty not that big of a place. Yes. I’m sure. Well, so this episode that I watched and I didn’t watch all that. I was the searching part of it. You you opened up a box and and it were some rocks. And honestly, my first thought was the shipping had to be horrible. Yeah. Okay. That was my first thought. Then the next thought was you were reading the note from it was a guy sent you a card and he said, please share the the dark bottle. and you pulled out 22 bottles of beer, and one was a a a corona, which you kinda smirk that. And the and the other and the other was polygamy pork. And you started you started reading the label, and I’m thinking this episode brought to you by Harry Potter. And I was I just I your delivery was hysterical. I loved it. And then my mind went to they mailed you rocks. and glass bottles in the same package. That’s where my mind went. And I I just thought it was absolutely amazing that you’ve got this connection with people and they’re they’re they’re sending you things creatively. I don’t know. I I don’t know what other boxes you’ve received. You know, maybe that was the coolest box you’ve ever gotten or maybe it’s pretty normal for you. But I thought your delivery of kind of

Nick Zentner [00:32:32]:

You didn’t say this up. Maybe did you say this episode brought to you by? You kinda you kinda held it up, but I was just laughing. I thought that was pretty funny. Yeah. By this point, you know, there’s there’s regulars. So there’s a bunch of inside jokes and all the other references to this. And there’s kids watching, you know, so I gotta watch my mouth sometimes. So I’m My mom’s watching in Wisconsin. She’s, like, scolding me the next day. You know? So it the the whole thing’s you know, re unrehearsed as real as possible, and I I can’t keep this up. I’m doing 5 of these a week. So I’ve been at I I don’t know what it is now, approaching 60 of these livestreams since mid March. So I I think we’re gonna start Well, I I really don’t know. I’m just going week to week, I guess, is what I’ll say.

Scott Cowan [00:33:24]:

So that’s what I was gonna ask you is that, you know, at some point, the is we’re gonna go back to, you know, quote unquote life as we do it. You know? Right. We’re gonna be within 6 you know, 3 feet of each other or whatever, and you’re gonna go back into the classroom at some point. And so you’re not gonna have that abundance of time. But do you think that that’s something that you will continue to do in some capacity doing doing these lives streams maybe on the weekends or I

Nick Zentner [00:33:49]:

Taking I think it would be foolish to just shut the thing down completely because of the the numbers, the number of people involved, it’s it’s a positive thing. It’s it’s it’s been a tonic for many, as we struggle with all this stuff. And so it’s an escape. It’s a connection. It’s a community. So, yeah, I know that I’ll do something using kinda now that I know what I’m doing, but I I don’t know what that is. I think if I try to live stream from my classroom, that could work, actually. Now that I think if I don’t have other people on film, there’s all I think there’s some rules about You can’t show students faces. I don’t I don’t know. I I gotta look into that. Yeah. But, anyway, it’s it’s it’s the latest example of I just try to go for it. I don’t take myself too seriously if there’s a bunch of, you know, malfunction and this and that. I just kinda roll with it. You know? It’s I don’t think I I don’t think people want there’s plenty of, like, polished professional whatever out there, and I think many are wanting something a little bit more real, and and and real. Oftentimes means completely goofy and just kind of a a circus. It was a circus last night up on Saddle Mountain. We got wind, and we’re in the shade, and I got a fan coming up in the middle of it and talking. You know?

Scott Cowan [00:35:22]:

Oh, jeez. So so are you okay. So let me ask you this. Are you are you are you being recognized now when you go out? I mean, do you have that have you hit that level of celebrity that hey. You’re the guy from the life streams, or you’re the guy from YouTube. Yeah. It’s coming. It’s happening more and more. It’s

Nick Zentner [00:35:41]:

so nice. Yeah. It’s it’s It’s it’s yeah. It makes you you know, it just makes you feel good. People people love learning They love learning new things. They like to be kind of associated with a certain group of people who have a certain kind of momentum of their own. You know? So it’s and I there’s gotta be content. I just can’t be up there screwing around. You know? So there’s gotta be some stuff we actually cover that that is stimulating for them. So I make sure that there’s a a decent balance there.

Scott Cowan [00:36:15]:

Well, in our show notes, I’ll make sure is I’ll make sure I link to to your page and all that, and people can go and explore, and I would encourage them to do so because you’re you’re informative and and entertaining. So I’ll give you that. So let me ask you I’m putting you on the spot for this question. So you call you call Washington State the Disneyland here for that. Where’s your Where’s your favorite? What’s your favorite place? And and as far as this the, you know, the the elephant mountain flow, lava flow, or What is the what’s that place that you like if I said you can only go to one more place, you can go back to one place. Where would you go?

Nick Zentner [00:36:50]:

One answer would be Chelan, I I even did a YouTube lecture a few years ago that people could find if they’re interested. It’s called Lake Chelan Geology. the intro to that lecture was if I made up a friend that I had on the East Coast, and I just called him Jerry. And I said I said, okay. Well, Jerry says he’s coming out to see all this geology he’s been learning there watching these programs, but he said, I only got one day. So take me to you know, show me as much as you can in one day, and I’m like, well, I guess I’d take them to Chelan because they’ve got these Missoula Flood. They’ve got this incredibly deep lake. They’ve got this bizarre zebra looking rock that you see on 97 a as you go up on the west side of the river. Big earthquake fob, the biggest earthquake in Washington state history, 18 72. We just found where that earthquake fault is. It’s in Spencer Canyon with is right across the river from Orlando.

Scott Cowan [00:37:52]:

What let me ask you. Let me stop you there. You just found the earthquake — Right. — fault. A 100 and — Yes. — 50 years later. How how how did you find how how do we find faults like that. What

Nick Zentner [00:38:07]:

please explain. One of the really cool things about geology is that there’s always work to be done. There’s always mysteries that are hanging out there. So it was December of 18 72. There was a hell of an earthquake, probably estimated magnitude 7.4 He’s somewhere between Chelan and Wenatchee, and nobody knew exactly where the ground broke, but there were all these You know, there’s white folks in the area in 18 72, so they’re they’re writing down some of the reports. There’s a couple of basic, little newspaper accounts from the whole region, people are feeling this in Seattle, etcetera. It’s a big earthquake. And so between 1872 and 5 years ago, we couldn’t figure out where the actual fault was. Well, there’s this new stuff called lidar where you can get very detailed images, aerial photographs, essentially, but you can digitize it so that all the vegetation is removed magically. You can see real detailed images of land surfaces, and one of the geologists who works for the USGS was really trying to find this we call it a scarp, a fault scarp where the ground actually you could, you know, broke. You you should be still be able to see where the ground actually broke cleanly from a 100 plus years ago. And using the imagery, the lidar imagery said, well, god, we gotta go up to that Spencer Canyon. I think I see something that might be the actual crack. So they went out, got permission, pub private land, blah blah blah. And then They thought it was, then they took some samples, then they got some radio carbon dates from some of the organic material end of story. They they had enough field evidence to prove that really was the the place that the ground broke. Now the final part of the story is back in the thirties, forties, and fifties, it was a political game. Oh, you wanna build some dams? on the Columbia? Well, you know, there’s no earthquake problems here. Oh, what about that 18 72 oh, I’m sure that I think that epicenter was over there on the western Washington somewhere You know? I mean, it’s fascinating until you get good evidence. You can’t be very clear about important decisions like that. So

Scott Cowan [00:40:34]:

Okay. So I interrupt I interrupted Chelan, though. So what else What else is in there in Chelan? You’ve you’re you’re Jerry’s coming out. You’re gonna take him to Chelan. Oh, yeah. Is there — Hopefully, Jerry has good hygiene habits. we’re gonna be in the car all day together.

Nick Zentner [00:40:50]:

The the the lake itself, Lake Chelan, is a battleground between 2 lobes of the ice sheet that came from Canada. So one lob of the ice flowed west up the lake and the other lob of the ice came east down the lake and they met And so you’ve got ice sheet. You’ve got ice age floods coming down the Columbia and leaving these huge gravel bars. the bedrock itself is very unusual rock called Migmatite that’s usually formed 15, 20 miles below the surface, and yet it’s at the surface. So there was incredible amount of uplift while the list goes on and on. So Sean would be one answer. Another answer would be, what at you, I have to say. There’s much of what I just described also right there in Wenatchee. So you live in a very special place.

Scott Cowan [00:41:51]:

We we we it was funny when when our story we moved over here was is that I I was tired of. It was, well, I was burning out. I was managing some some real estate offices where I had a 100 and some brokers that I was responsible for herding cats. And I was driving thirty miles each way to the office. And on top of that, I did my my my real estate business. And my father His health was deteriorating, and I wanted to spend more time with with my mom and my dad. And my wife and I just started, like, well, if we could leave, where would we go? And so we you know, I my two places that I said I wanted to move to were Port Townsend or Ellensburg. Well, Ellensburg got voted out because it’s too late. Little did we know that which is, like, what are you doing? But Ellensburg got voted out because of the wind. Port Townsend got voted out because of the rain and the the the west side jerkiness. Okay. So we’re we’re visiting some friends of ours, and they’re they’re musicians, and they were playing in in Suncadia and Cle Elum, and they live they at that time, they lived in Cashmere. And some of their friends were talking to my wife, and they said, oh, you should come to Wenatchee. You should look at Wenatchee. And I’m like, I don’t know if I’ve ever I might have gone to Apple Blossom when I was in college. I I don’t really remember. And so we came over here. And what well, obviously, it’s the story ends. We we bought a house. My mom and dad moved over here with us. And so I was able to spend the last few months of my dad’s life, you know, present in in able to, you know, be there and do that. And then now mom lives with us, and we can keep an eye on her. So it’s been great for the family. And it’s a really interesting place. And so I had no idea really. The criteria was we wanted Ultimately, we wanted to be a little more blue sky, and we needed good health care. And, actually, had remarkably good health care for a town of its size. And it’s got blue sky, but No one told us about the wind. That’s not in the brochures that they give you when they say move to Wenatchee. because otherwise, I’m not a bad at an iceberg. But you’re, you know, like, Saddle rock. So since I live here and I’ll monopolize the one action piece. Do you know Saddle rock? I don’t know the the history of it. But from a

Nick Zentner [00:44:16]:

from a geology point, what happened? It’s a developing story, and that was the point of my broadcast last night. Not a whole lot of work has been done on Saddle Rock or Castle Rock or to milk spires or Yeah. I went at you dome, what we call it, rooster comb, all these little kind of pinnacles in the area. Right. But the emerging story and more work is needed is that those are almost Well, let’s just pick Saddle. Saddle Rock is forty four million year old rhyolite lava. And oh, it’s

Scott Cowan [00:44:57]:

your life. It doesn’t look like you’re over 42. Okay.

Nick Zentner [00:45:02]:

But from our point of view, then you go, okay. Well, let’s see. What do I know about what’s going on with plate tectonics in Washington? 44000000 years ago, and you’re like, well, wait a minute. That’s too old for the cascades. That’s way too old for Mount Rainier and Mount Baker and those others. So this is an old volcano story. Well, that’s interesting. And then you go, well, wait a minute, the chemistry of the rhyolite is not like the rhyolites up in the cascades, plus there’s a bunch of gold associated with that rhyolite day. I’d know if you’re aware, but there was a huge gold operation right there at Saddle Rock. I do know that. — and the and the love at mine. They pulled out 1,000,000 of dollars with the gold and silver, and they stopped that in the early nineties. And much of that Saddle Rock hiking area is kinda reclaimed mining land.

Scott Cowan [00:45:53]:

I do recall maybe that there was a cleanup go going on. Yes. Okay. So I didn’t pay close enough attention. Okay. Thank you then. So that so fill me So from my point of view, one of the biggest

Nick Zentner [00:46:04]:

remaining questions about the geology of Central Washington is what exactly is the connection between the gold over at Liberty Washington over by Blue It Pass? and the gold that we’re matching. And even some of the gold that by Lake Cle Elum, you’re heading up towards Ronald and and Cle Elum, basically, and that’s a whole seam of gold and igneous rocks that have similarities in ages and chemistries, but nobody’s really been able to tie that all together. So I’m trying to convince some of the field geologists and some of the other experts to spend more time there because I I think it would be a very interesting set of results.

Scott Cowan [00:46:52]:

That’s that’s very fascinating. So you’re you just make sure I understood you. Your or so you said that the Saddle rock 45,000,000 — Yep. — years old. And you mentioned then that it’s older than rainier

Nick Zentner [00:47:05]:

and the cascades? Yes. Generally, the cascade volcanoes have been there for about 40,000,000 years, but individual mountains like Rainier are very Mount Rainier is half a million years old, and it’s only been standing for half a million compared to being being the entire mountain range being 40, 40,000,000 years or so. So we kind of view the development of the history or the kind of construction of Washington as a state in different chapters, and that cascade chapters pretty late in the book, and and I’m I’m kinda giving you the message that the the Saddle rock and Wenatchee and Gold story is is a couple chapters earlier than once we get to the cascade story.

Scott Cowan [00:47:55]:

That’s that’s fascinating. Okay. Alright. So In respect for your time, I mean, I could continue this conversation with you for much longer, but for respect for your time. So one of the things we always do is, you know, we ask everybody, like, because we’re all about Washington state. So, like, when you and the family wanna go out, where do you guys like to go? What do you do when you’re not climbing rocks? and you’re not live streaming.

Nick Zentner [00:48:18]:

Well Where in Washington do you guys go? We love to go all across the Pacific Northwest. We hike and we’re not big gadget people, so we don’t have a big boat and a big RV and everything else. We just have a couple knapsacks and some water filters, and my wife and I head out. And so we do enjoy the Teanaway area, North of Ellensburg.

Scott Cowan [00:48:42]:

And —

Nick Zentner [00:48:43]:

Mhmm. just many hiking places here on in kind of the rain shadow of the cascades. depending on the time of year, and then we love to eat, of course. So there are some places In fact last night, I came down off. Well, you know, people watched the livestream, and there were some in Wenatchee who were watching, and And so they came up to visit afterwards. You know? So I’m hiking down, and there’s some people that were hiking up to say hi. And one couple in particular said We drive all the way from Wenatchee to go to get a burger at Campus U. Totem Burger in Ellensburg, Washington. Those are the best the best french fries in the state. I’m like, you’re kidding me. And there’s, like, two Blocks from my house. They’re like, we know. We watch the livestream. We know where you live.

Scott Cowan [00:49:32]:

That’s — Campus. — both very cool and kinda can be creepy at the same time. Oh, so I thought she had told them. Oh my gosh. I haven’t heard that. I haven’t thought about that in a while. I’m kind of a I’m kind of a super mother at the end. That qualifies.

Nick Zentner [00:49:47]:

That

Scott Cowan [00:49:48]:

I kinda like that. And back in the day, I really like the Valley cafe. That was I always I used to go there for when I was at was attending school. I’d go there for back back then, coffee wasn’t what it is today, so they had an espresso machine, which was kind of, like, outer worldly. Yep. But that was the the those. But the TAV, I I in fact, one my college roommate lives in Seattle. and his father lives in Walla Walla, and they meet at the TAV for lunch to get together. That’s that’s that’s their story. It’s always funny because they’ll post it on Facebook. We’re at the TAV today and yeah. there are different ways to measure success. But from my point of view,

Nick Zentner [00:50:28]:

if you have a an establishment we have different generations there all the time. That tab that’s campus you told them. I mean, it it that good that you don’t have one demographic. You got everybody there, and and that’s — Right. — that’s a that’s a great part of the the tab story. I’ll give you one brand new establishment here that is very exciting and has been around maybe maybe a year or year and a half, the red pickle. And he just got out of a food truck, and he’s now got an establishment here on Third Avenue. I think we’re going there tonight. He just opened up again. Mar Mario is, I think, Guatemalan or some Central American fare. So he’s got an interesting kinda angle on burgers and other things, but it’s and tacos are it’s a wonderful place.

Scott Cowan [00:51:22]:

So you can see me because we’re doing this with kind of a video screen, but they audience can’t see me making this kind of laughing face. My very first guest Nicole, I was asking her this question. And she goes, oh, I’d love to go to the red pickle. And am I going, okay. What is it? Now they’re being recommend I would’ve got to try. I just think it’s I’m just laughing because it’s like, here we go. Another another recommendation for which I love. I love the fact that that a restaurant, a business is creating a sort of buzz and following that people want to go and, you know, and say something like, you know, hey, where do you go for dinner? Where do you do you like to go for lunch? You go, let’s go here. And that’s kind of

Nick Zentner [00:52:05]:

they’re doing it right, is the way I look at it. He is definitely doing it right. And he he it’s old school. He he greets everybody. They walk in. You know? He comes to everybody’s table, and the whole the whole experience not only the food and the and he does specialty drinks. He’s got a fancy bar there, but, you know, I’m an older guy. I I like that personal touch. and he’s he’s committed a 100%.

Scott Cowan [00:52:29]:

So but since we’re giving him an unofficial plug,

Nick Zentner [00:52:33]:

Where in Ellensburg is the Red Pickle? It is Downtown Ellensburg. It’s on Third Avenue. Let’s see. The cross street is is that l pine. I guess it’s 3rd in pine, and D and M coffee used to be there, but they’ve move to a different location. So it’s the old D and M location if people know that.

Scott Cowan [00:52:55]:

Yeah. Okay. Well, that’s good. So if If this episode’s not well, if this episode hasn’t created questions in your mind, we probably missed the mark for the audience. They haven’t listened thus far. But if they’re still listening and they wanna find more about you and what you’re doing, where can they find you out? I I created a website called nickxentner.com,

Nick Zentner [00:53:15]:

actually me my name, nickzentner.com because I for a while, people are having a hard time finding all these different stuff that I’m doing, a podcast, and a and the livestreams and the PBS stuff and these old 2 minute geology episodes. So I put it all in one place. So nickzenter.com. Got her got everything in one place.

Scott Cowan [00:53:37]:

Perfect. So I’ll put that down in the show notes below this so people can click on it and find it. Thank you very much for your time. I’ve known you now an hour, and it’s it’s been a very enjoyable hour for me. I’ve really I I’ve learned more. Now you unfortunately well, not unfortunately. The reality is I have more questions now than I did an hour ago. That’s a which is kind of fun, actually. So I’ve learned a lot, and it’s a good day when I can learn something. Not you know? I always think a good day when you learn something. So This has been awesome. So thank you very much for being on the show. And we’d love to have you on again if you’re willing to give us some more of your time on these days. Thank you, Scott. It’s been a real pleasure to be with you. Alright, everyone. Thank you so much for listening. And remember, there is always more to explore. Take care. Join us next time or another episode of the Exploring Washington State podcast.