The Manhattan Project National Historical Park: One park, three sites, countless stories with Becky Burghart

On this episode of Exploring Washington State, host Scott Cowan and guest Becky Burghart discuss the interesting history of the Hanford site and the Manhattan Project.

They discuss the tours offered by the Department of Energy in Hanford, which include the B reactor tour and the Pre-Manhattan project tour.

They also talk about the human aspects of the project, including the significant recruitment of African Americans and women into the workforce.

Additionally, they discuss the establishment of a national park around the Manhattan project and the global nature of the project.

Other topics include the history of nuclear reactors, upcoming events, and recommendations for visiting the Tri Cities area. Tune in to discover the fascinating history of the Hanford site and the Manhattan Project.

Hanford Site and Becky Burghart Episode Transcript

Hello, friends, and welcome to the Exploring Washington State Podcast. My name is Scott Cowan, and I’m host of the show. Each episode, I have a conversation with an interesting guest who is living in or from Washington State. These are casual conversations with real and interesting people. I think you’re gonna like the show. So let’s jump right in with today’s guest.

Welcome back to this episode, the exploring Washington State Podcast. I’m having a conversation today with Becky Burghart. Becky is the Park Ranger. I don’t know if that’s the official title. You’ll correct me in a minute, but I’ll call you the park ranger for the the Manhattan Project National Historical Park. which there’s three locations, and since this is a Washington state show, we don’t care about the other 2, but they’re actually very important to our story. So Becky welcome. I’m gonna normally, I let people introduce themselves, but I’m gonna prompt you with some questions today. We’re gonna get get that background out of you. How did you end up at I’ll call it Hanford, but how did you end up at this park?

Becky Burghart [00:01:07]:

Well, I see I applied for the job, so I thought it would be a place to start. That’s how I wind up here is I moved up here for the position, but I’ve been with the National Park Service for about 20 years. Okay. And The great thing about the National Park Service is you get to travel or move and learn a lot about our country, the geology, the plants, the animals, and the history. And so I moved up from New Mexico. I was at White Sands National Park for about 8 years. And then I saw this opportunity for Manhattan Project National Historical Park in Washington State, and I said, that looks really interesting. put into my resume, and they thought I was the best candidate and gave me the job. Alright. So when you were a kid,

Scott Cowan [00:01:53]:

Did you think you wanted to be a park ranger? How did how does one I’ve interviewed a couple of other park rangers, so I always find this interesting. How people end up in their careers? So how did you when you were a kid, what did you wanna what what’s those memories of, like, oh, I wanna be this.

Becky Burghart [00:02:09]:

I really It’s fun. I did not we did I did not grow up camping. I didn’t grow up doing any of the traditional things that would typically lead you into this career. I always enjoyed the outdoors. I terrorized the neighborhood of my bike. And yeah. So I had a bike, and I ran wrote it all over the place. I grew up in Yuma, Arizona, and so loved exploring the desert. My grandparents had a house out in the desert. So that was my playground playing with the cactus and and snakes and tarantulas and all sorts of fun things that are in the desert. Some things are scary. Some things are fun to poke until they’re scary. But it was I, you know, just enjoyed being outdoors. But then I so after a say, I went to college, got a degree in crop science and agricultural education, and then I decided I wanted to join the Peace Corps.

So I I lived in Ecuador, South America for two and a half years as a Peace Corps volunteer. And there, I’m one of my Peace Corps colleagues and now very close friend. She was a wilderness ranger with the forest service. and that was my first real exposure to a career in natural resources. So getting to know Jen, we had a of fun outdoor adventures. When I was in college, I started getting exposed to hiking and camping and rock climbing, and I thought that was a lot of great fun. So that interest started butting when I was in college. And then with my friend Jen, she really taught me a lot about careers in working with public land management agencies. So that kinda planted the seeds So when I came back to United States, I went back to a job I had in college during the summer. So it was just a place to land because I had no car. no money. I was like, okay. I gotta figure something out now. And I knew that was a temporary seasonal job. And then I had gone up to a state park with a friend just as a day trip, and they had a sign up that said wanted parkade. I was like, what the park hit? It was kinda slow day, and so I asked the the lady in the visitor center just to make some conversation. And I said, So with the park aide, and she didn’t answer my question, she turned to got on the radio, and said we have somebody interested in the parkade position. And I’m looking around, and I’m like, I’m literally the only other person in this building. Like, what I just asks, like, a conversation question. So okay. I’m kinda stuck now. And so the ranger pulls up and he was a law enforcement rangers. So he has his duty belt and his big hat and his the the Ranger cart. And I was like, what the heck? And so he said, I understand you’re interested in the park aide position. I was like, at this point, sure. Whatever. Whatever. So I signaled over to my friend, like, come on. We’re gonna go talk to the ranger, and he said, what what did you do? And I’m like, just get in the car with the ranger. So we went to the ranger’s office, and then he started telling me what the job was. And he said, well, you talk to people. You you share the history of this place. You collect some fees. I’m like, well, that sounds pretty fun. And I really don’t have a job at this point because I just got back from trying to figure things out. So once he started explaining the job, I was like, that sounds kind of fun. So then I started selling my like, hey. You know, I’m Becky. I’m a peace corp return peace corp volunteer. And then he said, okay. You’re hired. I’m like, what? He said, well, turning your resume and go through all that. So I turned in my resume. Short answer is I was working for California State Park 7 days later, and that was a seasonal job. but I fell in love. Like, hey. I like this background. You’re like, this is kinda fun. So then I started looking in to get a permanent job with with California State Parks But that takes a while. You have to it’s a long interview process. And because it they they make All of their rangers are law enforcement rangers. You have physical fitness test you have to take, so it’s about a year long process to go through. So in the interim, I I worked at Bodi State Historic Park for the summer at Onituevo State Reserve on the coast of California where the elephant seals. It’s an elephant seal mercury work there in the summer in the wintertime. So it’s a good gig. Got to go back and forth. as I worked through the application process. Well, that was the early 2000. Enron kind of caused a little bit of from when Enron collapsed state of California was heavily invested in Enron. It caused a hiring freeze. And so as I’m trying to work through this application process to apply to be a park ranger, there were some bumps in the road. So in that process, I decided to check out National Parks and, you know, kinda see what other options were out there and go to grad school because my friend from Peace Corps was going to Grad school at the University of Idaho. It was also encouraging me, like, hey. This is a great program, Becky, especially if you wanna get more into interpretations and communication. So, ultimately, I got a summer job at Mesa Verde National Park, and got accepted to the University of Idaho in their master’s program in environmental communication. And so I did that I loved working at Mesa Verde. It was super awesome. Like, yeah. I like this park ranger thing. I’m less interested in the law law enforcement aspect and definitely more interested in the education, communication. Right. So I went to grad school, learned more about the profession. and the the this why we do this kind of thing. And then I wound up getting a job at Grand Teton National Park. Was there for 4 years. Then I went to Chamizal National Memorial in El Paso, Texas right on the border with Mexico. Was there for about a year and a half, and then at White Sands National Park, and then here at Hanford. So — I hear it happen. Okay.

Scott Cowan [00:08:01]:

So that’s what happened. I asked a question. All because you tried to strike up a conversation.

Becky Burghart [00:08:08]:

You never know. I had yeah. I was just trying to kill some time, and here I am 20 some ideas later.

Scott Cowan [00:08:15]:

You just never know, dear. Wow. Okay. So well, welcome welcome to Washington State. So you you’re kind you were kind of since you went to a the university of Idaho. Is that in

Becky Burghart [00:08:26]:

It’s in Moscow. It’s a pretty close. Yay. You should really know that. Okay.

Scott Cowan [00:08:33]:

mean, it’s close enough to Washington. I should know that. I mean, that’s — That’s right. It’s it’s, like, five miles. If that. Right? And and so you’re you’re You just didn’t move up here blindly. You were kind of aware of the the region and and and and all of that. So okay. Mhmm. How long is this the the the park? How long is the because I’m not I wasn’t aware of this until we were introduced. I I wasn’t aware that there was a a national park there. So how long is and I’m hoping you’re gonna say, oh, it’s brand new, Scott because you shouldn’t have known. But probably almost 40 years, and I’ll be looking silly. But how long has the park been open?

Becky Burghart [00:09:14]:

I well, it was established back in 1948. Just kidding.

Scott Cowan [00:09:18]:

Of course it was.

Becky Burghart [00:09:20]:

No. It it is a new park, especially in terms of, you know, new forest, you know, mountain air has been around for over a 100 years. Manhattan Project National Historical Park was established in with the passage of the 2015 National Defense Authorization Act. So it passed in 2014, but it wasn’t officially established until November of 2015. Yeah. And and it’s a really unique park. We’ll probably get this in a little bit later, but so it’s been around since 2015, but the park service didn’t have any staff up here at Hanford until late 2017. I’m the first per park ranger that here at Hanford. So I’ve been here five and a half years. There we have currently a staff of 2. Oh. So we’re a huge staff here at Hanford. The park staff, we have more across the country, but here at Hanford. So a pretty small staff presence, but we like to say we’re a small but mighty team. So if somebody comes up and strikes up a conversation with you, they may be recruited into the park service. Yeah. I figured out that’s a great recruiting tool. You start talking to me, and I’m like, hey. Here’s a job application.

Scott Cowan [00:10:25]:

So so it is a new a new a new park. So I I don’t feel quite as silly. Now this park is also in three locations.

Becky Burghart [00:10:35]:

It is. Yes. So when kinda a little bit of the backstory of how the park got established is there. There was a movement, and it this has been in in progress for decades to try to get a park established around the Manhattan to share the history of the Manhattan project. So, originally, it was going to be Oak Ridge in Los Alamos, Oakridge produced in rich uranium for the little boy bomb, and then it was also the project’s headquarters. Los Alamos is where they assemble the weapons. So that that’s where a huge amount of of scientific research was happening as in developing the weapons. And then as the conversation expanded to establish a park, Hanford, the Tri Cities community said, well, you can’t tell the Manhattan project story without also sharing Hanford’s role because Hanford produced plutonium. for the fat man bomb. So then the conversation expanded, and that was, like, in the mid 2000. The conversation expanded to include all three sites. So, eventually, the momentum moved forward. By 2014, there was enough momentum to include to get the park established, and that was a lot of work on the congressional delegation from Washington State. Doug Hastings was really heavily involved in as well as senators, Marine, Cantwell. So it’s a little bit of the genesis of the park trying to pull it all together. So the park is Hanford, Washington, aka Tri Cities. Los Alamos, New Mexico, and Oak Ridge, Tennessee. I we have colleagues across the country, and then the superintendent is based out of Denver, Colorado. So all of us are one park. Mhmm. So we’d like to say one park, three sites, countless stories. Okay.

Scott Cowan [00:12:19]:

So And then and then, obviously, you open the park then COVID hits and you immediately close the park. So it’s

Becky Burghart [00:12:27]:

Yeah. Well, that that’s actually a really interesting case there. So we’re like I said, we’re spread out across the country. This story isn’t just Hanford isn’t just Los Alamos. Like, you can’t have you couldn’t have an atomic weapon without Los Alamos Hanford at Oak Ridge, for sure, but there was also about 20 other primary sites that were heavily involved, whether they were uranium processing facilities, or research institutes like UC Berkeley University of Chicago. So although those three sites, Hanford Los Alamos, Oak Ridge, those were primary centers of operation. Mhmm. It was these other 20 places or more. There was more places, and that’s just the United There were places in Canada that were refining the ore, and then the majority of the uranium for the project actually came from the Democratic Republic of Congo, which was the Belgian Congo at the time during World War 2, that’s where the ore was coming from. And then, of course, the weapons final assembly was tinian, and then they were dropped on Japan. So this is a global story. And so your your comment about COVID is really COVID we were kinda stepping in the direct of using technology to help share the story because we’re spread across the country, but the story is a national story, and it’s a global story. and to be able to provide opportunities for visitors to learn about and to engage with this history leaning into digital platforms is really important. And so we did get a we got a grant through the National Park Service to be able to hire 3 employees, one for each of our units, to really focus on developing digital platforms. Those employees actually started in March of 2020. So serendipitous that we now had capacity to really start looking at developing digital platforms when COVID hit So it was a really interesting time. Like, we actually ramped up and got really busy. Mhmm. So we we started ramping up in 2020, developing this digital content. So we started developing a digital app. We started developing content for our website and also stood up a social media team. So it was really interesting. It was a great it was, you know, taking the lemonade, taking the lemons, making lemonade out of the situation, and particularly with social media because so many people were using it to engage. We learned a lot of ways to share stories, and it was just an opportunity to really experiment how do we, how do we engage with people across the country and across the world through these digital platforms? And we learned a tremendous amount just simply through our social media. And one example of that was 2020, we were going to have a commemoration events at each one of our sites, in person events, for to mark the 75th anniversary of the atomic bombings of Japan. And we were originally planning these in person events we realized pretty quickly, by April of 2020, those were not gonna happen. So then we started looking into using social media to mark these events. And we did a huge campaign on social media. We collaborated with the Hiroshima Peace Memorial Museum. they provided us artwork from atomic bomb survivors, and so we we hosted we hosted that artwork for a month. So we had a a virtual art showing, and that helped us really re mark these import these historic these important historical milestones, and the artwork really resonated with people or our visitors on social media. We had a really good interaction. It was a very somber and quiet and reflect reflective way of sharing this history and marking these historical events. So since then, social media has been a really important tool for us to share stories, all sorts of different stories about the Manhattan project. And now we have this digital app the National Park Service has an app. So if you go to your Google Play or the Apple Store, download the app. We have at each one of our sites, Hanford Los Alamos Oak Ridge. There’s for example, here at Hanford, there’s about 40 sites that relate to the Manhattan project history. So if you come into town, you’re like, hey, I want to learn about the Manhattan Project, because these communities, Richland was built to house the Manhattan Project Workers. So that history is is here in our community. We walk by it every day and don’t really notice it. But the app is that you can walk by and see the Richland Player Theatre You can click on it, learn more, like, oh, this was the movie theater during the Manhattan project, period, and get a sense of what it was like to live in these secret communities and work on this project, and it was such an interesting time in our society working on such a a huge project, but it was all very secretive.

Scott Cowan [00:17:32]:

So I have a couple of questions. that you should know the answers. I I there’s some you should know the answer to these. No. Just kidding. But Why was the project named the Manhattan Project?

Becky Burghart [00:17:45]:

I was named the Manhattan Project because it the project was managed by the Army Corps of of engineers, they established the and the very 1st project headquarters was in the Manhattan Engineering District in Manhattan, New York. So to keep it kinda secret and little vague that is named it after the location of the office, eventually, the project headquarters were moved to to Oak Ridge, But — Mhmm. — that’s that’s why they just named it that for where their office was. Yeah. Good. So then as as it pertains to Washington State,

Scott Cowan [00:18:18]:

Why Richland? Why why what did Richland have to offer the project that other And why here? I mean, it seems when you when you think about this and maybe maybe it’s secrecy, but when you think about, you know, Tennessee, New Mexico, Washington, very geographically isolated from each other, making transportation a little bit challenging, things like that. So why why Richland?

Becky Burghart [00:18:43]:

That’s a great question. So when they when the Army Corps of Engineers decided to pursue multiple routes of of creating atomic weapon. They originally started with enriching uranium, which was what they were doing at Oak Ridge, Tennessee. Then we then realize, well, let’s pursue the route of a of producing plutonium to also create a plutonium weapon. And so they’re like, well, we probably don’t wanna do both of these experimental sciences because this was all new technology. They were literally, like, coming up with the design while they’re, you know, building and flying the airplane at the same time is what they were doing. Right. So they decided Well, let’s not put both of these experimental technologies together in Oak Ridge, which is near, you know, nearby. There’s a lot of population nearby Oak Ridge, Tennessee. So let’s find another place to produce plutonium. So general Grove sent Curl Mathias out to find a place for plutonium production. Had to be a place with lots of water, not a lot of people, but good rail transportation, So he had the specific list, and so Matthias went all around, and they didn’t want it really on the West Coast because that they felt that was too vulnerable, too bombings from Japan. So a place that was fur further enough inland, but offered these specific criteria. When Matthias flew over Hanford, he knew he had found the right spot because there was the Columbia River that offered plenty of cool water needed to cool the production reactors. There was a lot of electricity available. The Grand Coulee dam had been recently constructed, so all of that hydropower was needed to produce the electricity needed for the reactors. And it appeared there wasn’t a lot of people in the area. This was an agricultural area, but they flew over in December So orchids don’t look like much in the winter. And so he’s like, there’s not a lot of people here. There were small towns of the town of Hanford, the town of White Plus. And, Richland, it was a small farming hamlet. So he said, okay. Not a lot of people. There was one highway, but it wasn’t a major highway. and then Pasco had a really good rail hub. So there was a good trend they they had rail nearby. So all of those things like check check check and that’s how a Hanford was selected.

Scott Cowan [00:21:03]:

Okay. So now you wouldn’t select Hanford now because Tri Cities is just I don’t know that you know the answer to this question, but what’s the approximate population there in Tri Cities now? It’s — I think it’s roughly 300,000 Yeah. I mean, it’s — It’s a good sized community. Yeah. It’s it’s a very good sized community. Yeah. You wouldn’t you wouldn’t I don’t think you would select it now. No. Okay. So in what year did they they break ground here at Hanford?

Becky Burghart [00:21:32]:

It was in

Scott Cowan [00:21:34]:

1943.

Becky Burghart [00:21:35]:

So they broke ground. So Matthias came out in December 1942, and then Groves had approved the Handford site in January of 43. And then they they had to remove the communities so the the citizens the people living in White Bluffs Cowan Hanford and Richland were through eminent domain lost their farm. So it was the War Power’s Act that gave the military the ability to remove the farmers from their land, and also travel communities were removed. So here at Hanford, it was the tribal the one of them, they they had summer grounds on on the Hanford site. What is the Hanford site today? There that was their summer grounds. and then also the confederated tribes of the Umatilla, Indian reservation, the bans and tribes of the Yakima Indian reservation as well as the Nez Perce tribe, they all had treaty rights to what we call the Hanford site today. from the treaties of 1855, that was their traditional or custom places. So they could go to that area for fishing hunting gathering So when the government came in, they displaced the white settlers. They kicked them out of their farms. They gave them some compensation. Many argue it wasn’t enough for all the effort and the the money that went in to the farms. And then tribes had also lost access to this land because when they put the fence up, everybody was excluded. So it it travel communities, locks, asset, access to it, and then the white settler communities were also displaced. So that’s what happened in early 40 3, and then they started construction, I think, in the spring of 43. And that was huge.

Scott Cowan [00:23:23]:

moved incredibly quickly. So initially, how many acres are we talking about? It’s about 600

Becky Burghart [00:23:30]:

double check. 600 square miles. So it’s a huge site. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:23:35]:

Wow. Okay. 600 square miles. Okay. So in a in a very, very brief period of time. The decision was made. People were relocated. 600 square miles of fencing went up. Just think about think about that work work order right there. And then they started construction that ultimately led to production. within 2 years. I mean, that’s just when you look at the timeline of when when the bombs were used, it was in 45. So that’s less than 2 years. Now something something you said earlier, though. This is this is this is the way my brain works. You mentioned when you go into Richland, you can see buildings that were You know, the theater. You mentioned the theater. The and and you have a a walking tour — Mhmm. — in in in Richland. And the app will show you things. So Was anything there or were all those buildings that you kind of reference like the theater? Were those constructed within a 2 year window just to provide services for the people that were brought into to run this to to participate in this project.

Becky Burghart [00:24:43]:

Yes. So it was actually less than a 2 year window. It was, like, a year window because they started construction in 1943. But then by 1944, for example, Richland was transformed from a really small farming hamlet into a bustling community for Hanford Workers. So there was 2 things going on here. They were building the community of Richland to house the white collar workers. So the more of the year round workers, the people who are going to running the the site. And then they also had the Hanford Construction camp, which was out on the Hanford site. And that has because they had to quickly recruit about a 100,000 workers, and then nearly 50,000 workers lived in the Hanford construction camp. And that was the initial year to build the the facility. So they had these industrial facilities. They had the b reactor, which is the 1st full scale production nuclear reactor. and then they quickly followed with additional reactors, but they also had to construct fuel fabrication area. So they bring in the fuel by rail. They have to take the the fuel and create fuel slugs. So they’re the uranium billet arrived, and then they were processed and formed into these fuel slugs, which are about the size of 2 standard snickers bars back to back. So, you know, you got your fuel slugs. They had to then truck the fuel slugs over to the reactors, put the uranium fuel slugs in the reactors, they radiated the fuel slugs in the reactor to get the plutonium, and then they had to take the irradiated uranium over to a separations plant. To separate the uranium from the product of interest, which was plutonium, that plutonium was then shipped to Los Alamos. So they weren’t only just building reactors. They were building the fuel fabrication, the separations area, administrative headquarters. So all of that had to be constructed. So you had fifty thousand people living in these construction camps which also involved, you know, barracks and cafeterias. Imagine feeding 50,000 people every single day.

Scott Cowan [00:27:00]:

I have so many questions about this, which I won’t get his bogged down in the minutiae, but I’ll I’ll this I’ll just basically make my statement, and I won’t ask you to to to respond unless you’ve got something to, you know, say, no, you’re wrong here. But so, basically, what you’re saying is that during the middle of a Incredibly large and resource hungry war. We found another 50 to 100,000 people and brought them to the desert in southeastern Washington. And we built barracks and cafeterias, reactors, And we did this all within a year. Pretty much. Ish. A year ish. Yeah. And what what gets me is where did we find these people because of the war effort was going on, which was significant. That’s just fascinating to me. That’s just that’s absolutely fascinating. The other question I do have is very specific question. You said something, and this is the way my brain works. You said the b reactor, which was the first reactor

Becky Burghart [00:28:03]:

Made. Correct? Mhmm. Correct.

Scott Cowan [00:28:06]:

What happened to the a reactor?

Becky Burghart [00:28:10]:

they didn’t make one, and I’m not sure what there’s a story. And I I’m not exactly sure why they — because you understand, bro. I mean, it’s like, a, b, c, d. Yes. Yeah. I’m like, if we’re gonna call it b, why wasn’t there a? There there was no a. Okay. So And so there was smaller reactors. So the the first reactor in the world was at the University of Chicago under a squash court which is like a tennis court more or less. So at the University of Chicago, Enrico Fermade built his first graphite reactor. And that was proof of concept that he was able to create a sustained nuclear chain reaction which then releases energy. The energy released powered a light bulb, but it was proof of concept you could build this this graphite pile, put uranium slugs in there, cause vision, and release energy. So from that, then they build — There was squash court. Under yeah. Same place. You know? No no problems or anything. I’m sure they would would not allow that today. Yeah. Mhmm. And then they scaled that concept up to the X10 reactor at Oak Ridge. That was an air cooled reactor, but it was it was a test reactor. They were able to produce some plutonium as well as other radio nucleotides. Then they came to Hanford and built the full scale production. But it basically went from, like, a little grunt, you know, something small that you’re doing in a lab. to now it is an industrial complex. And just the leap in that technology in that short amount of time is phenomenal. And the big difference between Oak Ridge X Ten and Hanford’s b reactors, Oak Ridge was air cooled. This was water cooled. So they really it was similar to X Ten, but pretty different. So, literally, they were building it and flying it at the same time. And do you know, Tiana, touch on why you were talking about the leap in technology. So Fission wasn’t discovered until December of 1940

Scott Cowan [00:30:17]:

38.

Becky Burghart [00:30:18]:

So 9 prior to 1938, they thought scientists thought the atom was not separable, like it was solid. when scientists in Germany split the atom and figured out exactly what had happened That was a profound shift. And immediately, because this was the late thirties, there was a lot of turmoil happening in Europe at this time. they understood the context for weapons right away for making atomic weapons. And so that’s when The United States started looking. They started the Uranium Research Committee, FDR approved the scientists doing a little bit of research into uranium, fission, and potentially weapons production. So from 1938, of just discovering fission to making 2 operable atomic bombs that use 2 very different technologies is pretty profound. The other leap in technology is plutonium wasn’t discovered until 1941. So uranium was a product of interest because it splits or it’s thistle. Mhmm. And then when plutonium was discovered, they also realized it was thistle. It would split. those two elements became of interest for weapons production. But just the profound leap in and — Yeah. — and and knowledge is is amazing.

Scott Cowan [00:31:45]:

Well, I’m not bright enough to be a scientific mind, but one can be in awe of the scientific advances in less than a decade, if you will. But the what I am in awe of is the the the assembly and movement of human beings into facilities and how in Hanford, and I’m sure it happened in in Los Alamos. I’m sure it’s happened other places, but we’re we’re talking about Hanford today that in less than a year — Yes. It went from being a a sleepy farming hamlet to a secret community to of a 100 some thousand people ultimately. And

Becky Burghart [00:32:27]:

just the sheer will of human beings to to to do that is is staggering to me. It is that is a really good point. So not only the leap and science, but the human aspect of the story is pretty profound. You touch on something really importantly. Abel most younger able-bodied men were off fighting the war. So they were basically trying to recruit anybody who was, like, thirty five and older because anybody under thirty five was — Would have been probably doing military service. Yeah. Exactly. So they DuPont was the main government contractor here, they heavily recruited from the South because the these were good paying jobs. and they recruited a lot of African Americans and white workers as well. And about 14% of of the of the workforce hired by DuPont was African Americans. So they moved up here and have also about 10% of the workforce were women. So this was a big shift of bringing in African Americans and women into the workforce. And that really changed the Pacific Northwest because they also hired white workers from the south. So with that migration of people from the south to the north, This was the Jim Crow era. They brought that Jim Crow cultural norm if you if you wanna call it that with them. So Hanford was a segregated workplace. They didn’t have Jim Crow Laws here, but they had a a similar system of segregation to what the Jim Crow Laws were in the South. So with a huge influx of workers, when we talk about these barracks and cafeterias, those were all segregated. You had the women’s dorms. You had the African American dorms. You had the African the dorms were male African Americans and male white workers and women’s storms are also segregated. And even some African American couples, husband and wives, they had to live the men lived in the men’s dorms. The women’s lived in the women’s dorms, so they were even separating married couples. So highly segregated off by gender and by race. And then not not everybody could live out of the construction camp. There were too many people So some people were also housed. We had the white collar workers housed in Richland, and then the African American workers were housed in East Pasco. within substandard living conditions, the housing wasn’t great. There was no sewer or or any community services like that. So, really, the disparity that you see with the community of Richland that was government built, there were like, the theater we were talking about, there was department stores. It was a very walkable. It was a very well intentionally built community. Had to be walkable. because not everybody had cars. And if women were at home, they needed to be able to walk downtown and get what they needed. Right. They needed to be able to walk to the laundry and to the department store and things like that. And they also built in these green spaces. So, Richland today has really nice parks spread throughout. And it was like a spoke. So you had Downtown Richland, and the spokes went out from there to the communities. So you’ll see the alphabet homes, which Richland is really known for in Downtown Richland. And this area area, it’s easy to get to the Parkway area, which kind of downtown Richland near Howard Amond Park. All these communities, you could easily walk the downtown Richland. So it’s fascinating. When you start looking at the social context, and comparing that to what the community like looked like in East Pasco and their services there, but also the rich and robust communities that did grow from both. The African American community, East Pasco, was very vibrant. They had churches. The Morning Star Baptist Church was the center of this community. And they were they were really dedicated to their work. It was a patriotic duty for everybody. They were helping the war effort. And they did not know what they were doing. Most of the workers had no idea. They just knew it was the war effort. it was a good paying job, especially coming out of the depression. And they and you’re also talking about, you know, war rationing. these workers ate well. If you’re at the Hanford Construction camp, there was they they wanted to keep you here because they needed the labor. So — Right. — if you if you wanted eggs and bacon for breakfast,

Scott Cowan [00:36:59]:

you’re gonna get eggs and bacon for breakfast. I bet you got eggs and bacon for breakfast versus, you know, you have the I know my my mother was a a young child during during this period of time, and she’s in the this was in Tacoma. And so she’s you know, you know, when my when my grandparents were alive, they would talk about, you know, the, like, the blackout curtains and and and rationing and coupon books and and everybody doing their part. And so I think I think that information that I have, coupled with just the volume of people that you’re you’re you’re saying were brought to the region to do I’m I’m still it’s not that I don’t believe you. I don’t mean like that, but it’s like, it’s unbelievable in the sense that here we are Full on war, full on Boeing was building airplanes. They were recruiting women to be riveters. I mean, there was everybody was doing their it seemed like it that wasn’t alive then. But if you read about it, everybody was doing their part. And yet, somehow, mysteriously, we found another 50 to a 100,000 people that were sitting around and moved moved into Russeland to build this state. And I know they weren’t sitting you know, it just seems like wow. What a concentrated effort of monumental impact. It was. And and

Becky Burghart [00:38:23]:

Hanford, we also had similar thing going on at Oak Ridge. So to think, like, we’re pulling this many people up to the Pacific Northwest to work here. And it was a high turnover. The imagine if you’re you know, some people a lot of people think of Washington as cool, lots of trees, lots of water. They show up in Pasco. because most people came in on the rail. They’re like, did I get on the run? You know, where am I at? And so this was a hard place to live. It’s hot. It’s cold. It’s dusty. It’s windy. You know, we we get these spring winds, and they’re they were called termination winds because that would be really dusty, and people are like, no. I’m out of here. I’m I’m going back to wherever I came from. I wake up. My house is covered in dust. I’m done. Like, this is not where I wanna live. So — Uh-huh. Yeah. There was just a huge turn turnover of people. So there were there were still people available to work, but you’re right. I mean but everybody was was dedicated to helping the war effort.

Scott Cowan [00:39:23]:

Right. No. So so one of the reasons that we were connected was because there’s a movie coming out that has very good very close ties to what what happened there at Hanford. Yes. What What, if any involvement with that movie project have you had? Have you had any other than you just happened to be the the park ranger of of this park that’s being referenced? Or —

Becky Burghart [00:39:52]:

Pretty much, I just happen to be the park ranger. Okay. So we’re super excited about the film Oppenheimer coming out. I think it’s gonna premiere on the July 21st. And all the filming was done in or the majority of the filming was done in Los Alamos. So Oppenheimer was the the scientific director for the Los Alamos site for Los Alamos during the Manhattan project, and he is a very well known controversial figure, so it’d be really interesting to see how he’s portrayed in the film. Apparently, the director reference the book, The American Prometheus, which pro it’s a great book, and it really provides a very complex in Nuance understanding of who Oppenheimer was. So I’m really really looking forward to seeing the movie and seeing how Oppenheimer is portrayed So with the focus on Oppenheimer, the filming was done in Los Alamos. On the app that I reference earlier, we do have a driving tour of the site several of the sites that were filming locations in Los Alamos like the Lamy train station. which was the primary place. People came into the site or it came to Los Alamos and then also, like, the fuller lodge and then the Oppenheimer house in Los Alamos. So it’s kind of fun. You can get a sense of where the film the different filming locations on the driving tour on the app. We also have on our website like a 360 Panorama of the Oppenheimer house. It’s not open to the public. but you get a sense of where this man lived and his family had lived during the Manhattan project. So we’re excited, and it’s also putting a spotlight on this really important history that the park works to share.

Scott Cowan [00:41:41]:

Well and I was While you were saying that I was over here, I I found the Oppenheimer movie website, which is have you you’ve obviously probably seen the the website. pretty distracting to when you when it’s it it it it, you know. But Matt Damon and Robert Downey Junior are in this. Florence Pugh is the name I’m aware of. Emily Blunt, but Cillian Murphy is not a name I’m familiar with, but that’s the first name listed. So this was This is not just some independent film, some little, you know, somebody running around with their their iPhone no offense to iPhone films. But bringing them off their iPhone and just gathering things. This is this is a full this is Hollywood the Hollywood production. And from the looks of the website, they’ve dropped a few dollars on that too. Yes.

Becky Burghart [00:42:33]:

So — Yeah. — is

Scott Cowan [00:42:36]:

So this so the the byproduct of the movie, though, will be is increased attention and awareness of what what you’re what you’re working on and the other the other sites and all that. So why don’t we now you’ve got an app and and so this is weird to me. So when I think of a park as a national park or a state park or a park, I think of those as places to go and experience in person. And so far, you’ve talked about, you know, using technology, which is awesome. This is different than what I would expect. So first off, I think it’s great that somebody that’s sitting in say, you know, Savannah, Georgia can be looking around or what what’s going on. It it using the app, but what’s going on in your facility. That’s that’s really cool. But what does the Hanford site offer in person these days? Because I think when we when we When we talk, you know, pre prerecording and all that, I told you my little my little story about taking a joyride, if you will, out towards the facility in pink. You know? being very, very politely yet assertively told you’re not welcome here. Very professionally, very kind. They were all very nice, but it was it was really obvious that they took a random vehicle just driving down this highway as something to be dealt with. So first off, where physically is the park at in Richland.

Becky Burghart [00:44:03]:

Well, that’s a great question. So the visitor center, which is the place to start your experience here at Hanford, That is in Richland. It is at 2000 Logsden Boulevard. It’s in North Richland. So that’s a place to come in, get started. You’ll talk to some great folks you can stamp your passport. So if anybody is the National Park Service Passport fan, we we have the Manhattan Project stamp here.

Scott Cowan [00:44:29]:

So I have to interrupt you, though. But based on your earlier conversation, if they talk to you, they might be recruited.

Becky Burghart [00:44:35]:

Yep. But watch out.

Scott Cowan [00:44:38]:

So so somebody can come so you have and so they can be they they can get the passport stamped. Awesome. So they can start there. Alright? Yes. Okay. So Because Oh, go ahead. And I’m bouncing around a little bit. Is am I correct? You We were under the assumption, and I think recently found out that this is no longer allowed. There are no longer tours allowed at Hanford. Is that is that accurate?

Becky Burghart [00:45:02]:

No. We we are offering tours, so they were closed during COVID for COVID stuff. And then they were partially Cowan last year. And now this year, it’s a full tour season. So the so you come to the be you you come here, you visit come to the visitor center, Get your password stamp. This is also where you would take off for the b reactor tour. So the Department of Energy offers 2 tours One is the b reactor, and the other one is the pre Manhattan project tour. So I’ll talk about a little both of those a little bit more in a second. So we’re it’s really great that this year, we’re finally kinda post COVID, and it’s a full tour season, tour tour started in March, and they’ll go through early November. Oh, okay. That’s great. And reservations are needed for both of these tours, which you could just Google search, b reactor tours. It’s probably the easiest way to find it, or I can send you the link to it. We can we’ll put them in the show notes for people — Okay. Yeah. So — K. And so the bb reactor tours, they are 4 hours long. They are offered 6 days a week. And you get to go out to the 1st full scale production nuclear reactor. And and so It’s a really nice tour, and it leans into the science. Like, we were talking about like, they were discovering the science while they’re building these reactors and they’re refining it. So it’s a great place. It’s a real marvel to understand, like, the scientific complexities of the Manhattan Project. So it’s a great tour. You learn more about the science behind the the Manhattan project and what made plutonium production possible. So those are the b reactor tours. And then the the Department of Energy also offers pre Manhattan project tours. So that history that we briefly touched on with the the settlers that were removed when the Manhattan project showed up, that really digs into a little bit more of what the community of Hanford And White Plus who were those folks? You get to visit some buildings that were here before the Manhattan project. Like, we have the Breggerman’s branch. We have the White Plus Bank. and the Hanford High School. So it’s really neat. I really like the Preman Manhattan Project Tours because you get to see more of the site and have a greater sense of how big it is remember what we said? 600 square miles. Six square miles is crazy. But it’s huge. And if some of the tour goes along the river, so there’s opportunities to see some wildlife, and just learn about the people who were eking out a living. We’re joking like it’s a desert, but they were growing. I mean, the rich agriculture we have in the in the area today, started from the settlers building irrigation, you know, putting in the irrigation infrastructure and building the farms. So it was a tremendous amount of work to to make this productive soil. But once you put water on the soil, you had it was a great place for growing crops. Oh, it it it the whole damning of the Columbia

Scott Cowan [00:47:58]:

profoundly changed the the whole region — of Central Washington from being, you know, desert — Mhmm. — un very unhospitable to But still, they’re still I mean, let’s be honest, the winds. Yeah. The winds during Springer, they’re not fun. We can’t we can’t get around that. But it’s The fact that I you know, one question I didn’t ask you to and if you know the answer, that’s awesome. But it’d be really interesting to know what the population of the region was. pre Hanford to the 300 and some 1000 that they’re they’re today. I’m gonna guess —

Becky Burghart [00:48:32]:

Several 100. Like, the city of — Yeah. — Richland the Hamlet of Richland was hundred people.

Scott Cowan [00:48:37]:

Exactly. So it was it went from basically a, you know, a a a, you know, all jokingly say, you know, a stop sign in a gas station to you know, now 300,000 people in the region, it was more than that there. I know. But, you know, it’s just the river the Columbia River has impacted in such so many ways, the the region, irrigation, power, all all of the above. question. I just because you brought up against 600 square miles. So Approximate, can you give me kind of, like, where because, like, when I drive and I can never think of the highway that goes along out of Richland heading up to Vantage — Mhmm. — that goes along the economy. What what it’s not 84. It is — 240. 240. A lot of fencing there that says, you know, no entrance. A lot a lot of that. A few a couple of gates with with You know, people present that are there to inspect vehicles and and and just dissuade you from going across any further And it all looks like, you know, all looks like arid. But how far north does the Hanford parcel go?

Becky Burghart [00:49:56]:

that’s a really good question because part of that 600,000 600 Square Miles includes a buffer zone. So part so which is now the Hanford reach national monument, which so when you’re driving on 2:40, you see the gated off part, and then the other part is the national monument. So to to tell you off the top of my head, that would be really hard to, like, exactly say, well, Saddle Mountain is the the ending line of that. So they put this huge buffer corridor because of this what they were doing there. They wanted to ensure that no one would have access or be injured in case something did go wrong. Right. So if you look at Hanford Reach National Monument, that was originally part of the Hanford site. But then because there was never any production activities that happened, in that area in 2000. President Clinton signed that made that a national monument. It still is co managed between the Department of Energy and the US fish and wildlife service. So as you’re driving by the Hanford site, you’re looking at both of those things to get together. It’s — Okay. — to get to the original area that was blocked off for — Okay. — plutonium production.

Scott Cowan [00:51:12]:

Alright. So you so you’ve corrected me. There are 2 or still. That’s that’s that’s fascinating. People can get their passport stamped, which, you know, people are we all like to complete things, but, like, you know, we all chase those things. That’s very cool. What else is happening out there that the public

Becky Burghart [00:51:35]:

might be like surprised to hear. like, oh, I can go see or learn about x or y. What what else is going on there? Yeah. So we we have those 2 great tours offered by the Department of Energy. And then the National Park Service, we’re offering we’re trying this year a new program. It’s called not so secret city. So talking about Richland, So Richland was an open community. There were no guards. There was no fences unlike Los Alamos and Oak Ridge. even if you lived in like, if you’re a little boy and your dad worked in the project, the kids had badges, and they had to have their badges to go home. just get onto the site at Los Alamos And Oak Ridge. Oh. So those were truly secret cities that were fences, badges, guards, all of that. Richland wasn’t like that. Anybody could drive through the city. But, really, the only people who had any business in the city were Manhattan Project Workers. Right. And nobody would talk about what they did because you would you that was not allowed at all. So the the community was very it’s considered secret because nobody talked about what they anybody that worked on Hanford said, could not tie could not do that could not tell anybody what their job was.

Scott Cowan [00:52:50]:

I just think it’s funny. There’s, like, 50, 100,000 people there who are going.

Becky Burghart [00:52:56]:

You’re all looking around going. We all know what we’re doing, but we’re not gonna say things. So it’s like — Yeah. And they’ve — I don’t know. Sorry. And they also had no idea what they were contributing to. They just knew, like, out of job. Alright. Cool.

Scott Cowan [00:53:07]:

So so so, Becky, what do you do? You know, I’m what do you do, Scott? Just kinda like, okay. Just a a town full of people can’t talk about what they do.

Becky Burghart [00:53:21]:

That’s interesting to me. Yeah. And to think about trying to do that in the context of today with social media, everybody would be like, doing their selfies. Yeah. Like, look at me. Hey. Look at me at the b reactor folks. It’s like, no. No. No. You can’t do that. Right. So on 1st Wednesday of each month, So we have 2 more left, July August. We are offering the not so secret city tour and it’s through Downtown Richland and really kinda bringing that history that’s embedded in these buildings to life. And so giving a better sense of, like, what was it like to live in this it kinda like what you were saying. Like, we can’t talk about our jobs. but it was also building that sense of community because people have got dumped off the middle of the desert. They’re trying to make you know, contributed to the war effort, but build community as well. because a lot of them were young people just, like, call graduates or with young families and trying to, like, build the sense of community. And the government was very interested in in keeping these people happy. So let’s have a theater. Let’s have a community organization. So, like, there was the allied the Allied Arts, what came out of like, it was an art group that formed. And so and making the library so it’s fun to kinda walk around downtown Richland and things that we just take for granted today like, oh, this grew out of the Manhattan project. So that’s what those not so secret city tours focus on is giving the context of, okay, your ten year old kid, you’re living in Richland. What what was that like? or you’re a young mom just moved here, your husband’s out working on the site, and you’re trying to make a life in this community where you know nobody, and it’s really hot, and it’s twenty.

Scott Cowan [00:55:11]:

We moved here why? I can’t tell you why. But why do we move here? I can’t tell you. I just — I just he see the the conversations around the dinner table. You know?

Becky Burghart [00:55:20]:

He’s really awkward. Yeah. What’d you do today at work today, dad? Nothing.

Scott Cowan [00:55:26]:

Can’t tell you.

Becky Burghart [00:55:28]:

Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:55:29]:

Dad? Yeah. Anyway yeah. Okay. So — So — — so that’s alright. So those are things that you’re doing. So We’re gonna put some links in the show notes to that so people can can take a look at this. I I wanna come down there and take yeah. I wanna I wanna take this in. This is kind of You know, the he bemused me with certain aspects of it, you know, which is not something to to, you know but there’s certain things about it. But So I’d like to

Becky Burghart [00:55:55]:

we’re gonna

Scott Cowan [00:55:56]:

I’ll come I’ll I’ll give you your last word. So but so when you’re not being a park ranger — Mhmm. and you were dropped off in in Tri Cities. It’s still windy. It’s still hot. It’s still cold. It’s just more things to do. But what do you like to do?

Becky Burghart [00:56:14]:

What do you like about living in the Tri Cities area? What I really like about it well, I’m I’m from the desert. You know, I grew up playing with the rattlesnakes and stuff, so I do like that hot and sun. And it’s not as high. It’s not Arizona hot in the Tri City, so it’s warm. but I’ve lived in hotter places. Okay. So I do love the sunshine here. We have it I love riding my bike, whether it’s a mountain bike or road bikes, so I really enjoy. getting out and riding my bike, going hiking with friends because within two mile 2 hours, we can be in in the cascades or the Blue Mountains enjoying the wonderful mountains of Washington and the outdoors. So there’s just tons of outdoor things to do in Washington state. And so I enjoy taking advantage of those, whether it’s hiking, backpacking, or skiing in the wintertime.

Scott Cowan [00:57:03]:

What have you tried that you’ve that’s kind of on the list of things that, you know, the quintessential Washington state experience. Is there something you You wanna try that you haven’t tried yet?

Becky Burghart [00:57:15]:

Oh, yes. There’s a few things on my bucket list, and I’m trying to think of what they are off top of my head. I have gone to North Cascade’s National Park. I wanna spend more time there, but that was definitely something I wanted to do. I’d like to spend more time over in the Seattle area exploring it. I’ve only had the opportunity to go over there a couple of times, but it definitely been on this to the space needle. I wanna get up towards grand coulee and explore that area a little bit more, especially with the grand coulee dam connection to the history down here. Mhmm. And, well, I’ve I feel like I’ve really taken advantage of the quintessential bike ride of the Pacific Northwest with the the STP Seattle to Portland ride. So I did that my 1st year here. So I’m like, heck. Did you complete it in one day or 2? One day. 206 miles in, like, I don’t know, 4:14 hours. And I’m like, okay. I’m done with my bike for a while. So that was really fun. I I’ve really I really enjoy the Pacific Northwest, especially having gun grad school up here. But, yeah, definitely, there’s more places I wanna explore, particularly over in the Seattle area.

Scott Cowan [00:58:24]:

Okay. So One question I ask all my guests. So there’s a bunch of questions, not a bunch, but there’s a few questions I always ask. So coffee,

Becky Burghart [00:58:32]:

I don’t remember your answer to this. Team. I think based on the look Cowan your face, you’re gonna disappoint me greatly. Alright. That is one thing I have also enjoyed of moving to the Pacific Northwest. I enjoy tea. I’m not much of a coffee drinker, but I’ve I’ve learned I did not know what a London Fog was until I moved here, and somebody in a coffee shop said, you you should try a London Fog, and I really enjoy those. So — Okay. So my my

Scott Cowan [00:58:56]:

my awareness of tea is that It says Lipton on it. It you know, it just it’s I For the for the sake of the show, I’ll make fun of tea. But that if I’m being honest, it’s more out of lack of exposure to the product than it is. I don’t dislike tea. I just I just like coffee. I like coffee a lot. But t so where does one go for a good London fog in the tri cities?

Becky Burghart [00:59:32]:

Oh, any of the coffee shops, actually. So the I mean, what I’d what’s really fun moving up here, there’s a coffee shop on every quarter.

Scott Cowan [00:59:39]:

So so just in I really enjoy the the coffee shop culture here, but they they cater to both coffee tea drinkers. So — So where’s a coffee shop that you like? So where’s the place that you and I could go for, quote, unquote coffee? You’ll have a London Fog. I’ll have coffee. Where’s a good place that we could go and sit down and have a, you know, have a conversation.

Becky Burghart [00:59:58]:

Well, as a government employee, I can’t inter in — No. I’m not asking an endorsement. I’m just saying There’s a couple of them nearby my office.

Scott Cowan [01:00:07]:

There’s a couple nearby your office. Yeah. There there’s a there’s a couple of really great coffee shops. In secret Richland where we can’t talk about one

Becky Burghart [01:00:14]:

So I I don’t wanna endorse any particular business, but there’s some really great ones within, like, three to five miles of of of my office, which is great. Okay. So if you do come over, I can take you out for a cup of coffee. Alright. So this next question may also fall into that you can’t endorse, but so I’m gonna

Scott Cowan [01:00:32]:

modify it some, so I think you can answer this. I always ask where’s a good place to go for lunch. So that’s probably once again you’re gonna say I’m sorry. Is the government play? I can’t answer that. So Where what is a good type of food to have for lunch? What have you found in in the tri cities Have you found, you know — Mhmm.

Becky Burghart [01:00:52]:

Yes. What have you found? There’s actually a really good pizza spot. Pretty close to my office as well. I have great pizza. So after a long day at work, it’s like, oh, I Cowan just go get some pizza and not have to worry about dinner. And — Okay. — just a variety of food, there’s really good Thai restaurant. There’s some good just American food, like hamburgers and stuff like that. My husband’s a picky eater. He’s kind of a carnivore. So if he doesn’t have a hamburger on the menu, he’s not gonna go out dinner with me. So you you’re really gonna have a hard time taking him to a Thai place. That’s just gonna be kind of a — Yeah. I think Kevin’s when there’s chicken. He’s like, okay. But But when I go out with my girlfriends, I’m like, okay. Let’s anywhere that doesn’t, you know, kinda hit the other. Well, it doesn’t have a burger on the menu. That’s where you wanna go. Okay. Yeah. Alright.

Scott Cowan [01:01:39]:

So let’s let’s we’ll wrap it up with this question. This is my get out. Actually, there’s a second a follow a second question, but this is This is where you get input. So what didn’t I ask you that I should have asked you during our conversation?

Becky Burghart [01:01:54]:

Well, I would encourage folks because the Manhattan Project story is so complex. Maybe we’ve talked been chatting for a little more than an hour now. And we’ve just hitting the highlights of it. Right. And especially as folks have the opportunity to watch the film that’s coming out in July. Just to follow us on social media. We’re on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter. We share all sorts of stories there because that is one of our great ways of communicating with folks who may not have an opportunity to come out and visit. We definitely encourage you to come and visit. and either go on some of the Ranger programs because we we mentioned the not so secret city tour, but we also offer, like, pop up play days and junior ranger park explorers. So if you have littles in your group and you’re like, I don’t know if they can handle a 4 hour tour, There’s lots of range of programs that are very family friendly. We offer hikes, local hikes, and bike rides. So if you follow us on social media, you’ll find out about those events. Go to our website. There’s a lot of great information that digs a little bit more in-depth on these topics that we lightly touched on today. And then also download the National Park Service app. Type in Manhattan Project National Historical Park. and you can learn about Hanford Los Alamos Oak Ridge and how all three of those sites work together. And then definitely encourage folks to come out And if they get a chance to visit the Tri Cities, go on a b reactor tour or a pre Manhattan project tour, spend the afternoon. You could do a tour in the morning and spend the afternoon as a self directed tour using the app. And then in the afternoon or the next day, enjoy it. We have a lot of great wineries in the area. And we have Great Rivers, so there’s paddle boarding and fishing here. So it’s easy to put together a a nice stay here in the tri cities. Enjoy the warmth from the sunshine, the rivers, the wine, and the history.

Scott Cowan [01:03:44]:

K. Now Gonna ask this question of you. Uh-huh. This is your answer. It has no reflection on your employer. but I need a very I need an answer to this question. This is not an endorsement. This is your opinion. Alright? Okay. cake or pie, and why? Oh,

Becky Burghart [01:04:10]:

I would have well, my favorite is Thris leches cake. so I guess cake. But I happen because I really like the rest of the day taste cake, but I also really like, like, cherry pie.

Scott Cowan [01:04:23]:

Okay. Why? What is it about it that you like?

Becky Burghart [01:04:27]:

Well, the tres leches has good memories. A very good friend of mine from Guatemala was the first one who introduced me to Thris Leches and just brings back more more memories with her, but also the flavor is pretty awesome. And then cherry pie is just good. It tastes good.

Scott Cowan [01:04:44]:

Okay. Becky, thank you for taking the time to Just honestly give us a super high overview of the of the whole thing. We we didn’t go deep. We couldn’t go deep. But we It would just be overwhelming.

Becky Burghart [01:05:01]:

Yes.

Scott Cowan [01:05:03]:

But, a, I didn’t know there you know, until a month ago, I didn’t know about this existed here. And, b, it’s it’s tough. I find it fascinating, and I had no idea. and just what you share today about the the rapid growth. I mean, when you when you look at the timeline from when the site was selected, — to when the site broke ground, to when they brought in all these folks, and they built all these things. It’s it’s overwhelming to me. to think how that was accomplished in the in the 19 forties.

Becky Burghart [01:05:38]:

And it it is — Yeah. — profound. And and this history impacts all of us today. The success of the Manhattan project dawned to the nuclear age. We all live in a nuclear world. because of the Manhattan project. And so, you know, your listeners, hopefully, they’re inspired to learn more and the folks that see the movie and, like, oh, I wanna go and learn more because it’s it could be something that happened a long, long time ago, but you realize, like, this is relevant. this this you know, we have — Oh, it is it’s incredibly relevant. You know? It’s in it’s incredibly relevant. Absolutely. The outgrowth of just thinking about, like, nuclear power or our nuclear medicine or atomic or nuclear weapons, does all the genesis is is this story. So It’s it’s overwhelming, like you said, but baby steps. Take the, you know, bite sized chunks. That’s what’s nice about social media as you get these bite sized stories or going on a tour You get to learn a little bit more, but it’s still pretty high level, and there’s so much more to inspire your curiosity and learn more. Well, again, thank you so much for taking the time to share the story with us. Well, I really appreciate your time today and opportunity to talk about the Manhattan Project National Historical Park.