The Wonderland Trail Just Got Better—Don’t Miss Tami Asars’ Updated Guide

Prepare for an epic conversation with adventure, history, and quirky insights! In this episode of the Exploring Washington State Podcast, host Scott Cowan reunites with guest Tami Asars to discuss the second edition of her book, Hiking the Wonderland Trail. But this isn’t just any trail story—it’s a deep dive into one of Washington’s most beloved trails, spanning 93 miles around the iconic Mount Rainier.

So, what’s new with the Wonderland Trail? 

Is it the same grueling trek it’s always been, or have hikers discovered new ways to conquer it? With over a dozen hikes, Tami reveals the triumphs and challenges of trekking this legendary trail. From “fastest known time” attempts to leisurely 14-day adventures with toddlers in tow, the Wonderland is as diverse as the people who hike it.

Ever wonder how many times you can climb 22,000 feet of elevation without losing your mind? Tami has the answer and some sage advice: hike your own hike. But don’t be fooled by those short daily mileage plans—every step on the Wonderland Trail demands stamina and respect, as the constant ascents and descents push even seasoned hikers to their limits.

Want to know the history behind this backcountry gem? 

Tami dives into the fascinating origins of the trail, which began as a ranger patrol route in 1915 to combat poachers and wildfires. At one point, there were plans to build a road around Mount Rainier’s glaciers! Thankfully, those grand ideas evolved into the trail we know today—a wild escape consistently ranked among the top 10 hikes in the U.S.

And here’s a twist: Tami’s connection to the Wonderland Trail runs deep—not just as a hiker, but on a personal level, with family memories tied to the park. Her husband even proposed to her there, and she shares a mystical tale of a bear sighting that coincided with her nephew’s birth. It’s clear this trail isn’t just dirt and switchbacks—it’s woven into her life story.

If you’re considering hiking the Wonderland Trail, Tami’s book might be your new best friend. 

With insights on permits (hello, tricky lottery system!), tips for pacing, and ways to avoid common trail pitfalls, she makes planning accessible and even fun. The second edition also offers extras like “stay-a-day” options and wildlife hotspots marked with a fun bear paw icon—perfect for spotting marmots and mountain goats along the way.

Curious about life on the trail? Tami spills the beans on trail culture, from the joys of finding a trail family to the quirks of backcountry etiquette. Ever wondered how hikers communicate without cell service? Spoiler: they rely on apps like FarOut (formerly known as GutHook), which work offline and keep adventurers on track with GPS, comments, and waypoints.

And if you think Tami’s adventures end with the Wonderland Trail, think again. She’s also a triple crowner, having completed the Pacific Crest Trail, the Continental Divide Trail, and the Appalachian Trail. Each journey brought revelations, but will she hike the PCT again? Please tune in to discover her surprising thoughts on future trails and whether the Pacific Northwest Trail might be next on her list.

As the conversation winds down, Tami shares some of her favorite local spots in North Bend—like Huckstauder Coffee and Rio Bravo for lunch—and hints at exciting new projects, including an upcoming book on trail culture. Will we see Tami’s Snoqualmie Region guide hit shelves next year? Only time will tell.

With wit, humor, and a sprinkle of pumpkin spice debate (yes, it gets real), this episode captures the heart of what makes the Wonderland Trail—and hiking—so magical. Ready to disconnect, embrace the wilderness, and maybe even spot a bear or two? This episode will leave you itching to lace up your boots and hit the trail. And who knows? You might find yourself planning a trek sooner than you think.

The Wonderland Trail Just Got Better—Don’t Miss Tami Asars’ Updated Guide Episode Transcript

Scott Cowan [00:00:04]:

Hello, friends, and welcome to the Exploring Washington State podcast. My name is Scott Cowan, and I’m the host of the show. Each episode, I have a conversation with an interesting guest who is living in or from Washington State. These are casual conversations with real and interesting people. I think you’re gonna like the show. So let’s jump right in with today’s guest. Tammy, welcome back.

Tami Asars [00:00:27]:

Thank you

Scott Cowan [00:00:28]:

so much.

Tami Asars [00:00:28]:

I really appreciate you having me. Know why

Scott Cowan [00:00:30]:

you answered your phone. You’re probably regretting it. No. Thanks for thanks for thanks for coming back on the show. And, last year, we had you on, and we were talking about fall hikes. It’s fall again, but our kind of our big focus today is gonna be on the 2nd edition of your book called the, Hiking the Wonderland Trail. And

Tami Asars [00:00:52]:

Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:00:52]:

And, I mean, as you know, I I love to hike. You know, so I’m I’m teasing you when I say this, but did something change on the trail that we have a new book? I’m no. I’m kidding. But, you know, I’ve always been curious about the Wonderland Trail. I don’t know a lot about it. So I’m gonna tell you what I know Yeah. And then you’re gonna you’re gonna probably tell me I’m wrong, and then I’m gonna count on you to tell me tell me the right stuff. The Waimea Trail is this trail that goes around the base of Mount Rainier.

Scott Cowan [00:01:25]:

It’s Yep. Very easy. Peep Nope. So, okay, so I’m already wrong. No. I I I know it goes around the bay I know it goes around the base of Mount Rainier. I also understand that it’s it’s a pretty, a challenging, thing. But I don’t know a lot of the particulars, so I got one first question for you.

Scott Cowan [00:01:50]:

How long is the entire trail?

Tami Asars [00:01:54]:

Well, that’s a bit debatable, but we’ll say for the sake of argument, it’s 93 miles. But depends, you know, how how you do it. The actual trail itself, if you were to go around, is, like, 92.8

Scott Cowan [00:02:08]:

or

Tami Asars [00:02:08]:

something like that. It’s Okay. You know? But but it will say for the sake of argument, 93 miles.

Scott Cowan [00:02:13]:

So, 93 miles. Do you know has anyone ever tried to accomplish this fast?

Tami Asars [00:02:23]:

Oh my gosh. Yes. There’s what’s called the FTK, or, excuse me, FKT. T. Oh, got my f

Scott Cowan [00:02:30]:

k t?

Tami Asars [00:02:30]:

Yeah. I got my my letters all backward there for a sec. Fastest known time, and that’s true on all these big trails. Everybody does the fastest known time. We’re accomplishing a lot of really cool things as human beings in this world we live in lately, but the fastest known time on the Wonderland keeps changing, and it’s it’s pretty crazy, how how I mean, people run it a lot.

It’s a very common trail run, and so there’s that. But, you know, there’s people that do it in 14 days, people that do it in 22 hours. You’ve got the gamut of of different people who are doing it and and the sort of the cliche saying is hike your own hike.

Scott Cowan [00:03:15]:

Mhmm.

Tami Asars [00:03:15]:

Right? Do you do you. So

Scott Cowan [00:03:18]:

But it’s funny. Humans are we’re just so competitive. It’s like, well, if you do it in 14 hours, I’m gonna beat that and do it in 13:30 or whatever.

Tami Asars [00:03:25]:

Right. Right.

Scott Cowan [00:03:27]:

How many times have you hiked the Wonderland Trail?

Tami Asars [00:03:30]:

Over a dozen. And I say over a dozen because I’ve done it in parts and pieces more than that, but 12 times around the entirety in one consecutive trip.

Scott Cowan [00:03:43]:

Okay. So of of those 12 times, if I ask you to say give me the average, how long do you take on the trail?

Tami Asars [00:03:54]:

I would say a week. I’ve I’ve done it in as little 6 days, but, but a week is a comfortable pace for me. And, you know, people that go, in an average I would say the average backpacker that is kind of getting into it or hasn’t had a lot of experience, this is a tough trail. It’s 22,000 feet of elevation gain and loss, and it’s shaped kinda like a giant pie crust.

So if you imagine you’re either going down or coming up the entire time, you’re you’re you’re climbing or you’re descending, and that’s that’s pretty hard on joints and the body and the huffing and puffing.

Scott Cowan [00:04:30]:

And,

Tami Asars [00:04:31]:

so and it’s a beautiful trail. So if you get a chance to explore it on foot, you know, the the part of actually being on trail is much more beautiful than hustling to camps. Most of the camps are in the forest or the trees or the woods and or they’re down in river valleys, things like that, which are still beautiful, but you’re not getting up into those real big lofty areas as much when you’re in the camps. So I like to encourage people to take your time on the trail.

One of the really cool things about the way that the Wonderland is structured with the park system, it’s both, a curse and a blessing is that you have to have a permit. So you have designated camps to go to at the end of the day that are assigned to you. And so you pretty much have a guarantee that you’re gonna have a spot to camp. So you don’t have to hustle and rush to try to get to camp.

Tami Asars [00:05:25]:

Now a lot of people do that because they want the best camp site, and they want the best option. But a flat spot is a flat spot when you’re tired. You’re gonna sleep all the same no matter where your dirt is. So I like to encourage people to enjoy it as much as they possibly can when they’re on the trail.

Scott Cowan [00:05:41]:

How much, if anything, do you know about the history of the trail?

Tami Asars [00:05:46]:

I know I know a fair amount, about the history. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:05:50]:

When do you think the trail kind of was established as we know it today, the Wonderland Trail?

Tami Asars [00:06:00]:

Well, in 1915, it was let’s see. There were 3 crews of 15 men who worked for 3 months to complete it. And the original purpose of the trail is really kinda cool. The original purpose was this Mount Rainier became a park in 18 99.

Before that, you kind of imagine what life was like. Right? And so these people were hunting a lot for food. That was their source of sustenance. And so all of a sudden, you have regulations around where you can and cannot hunt.

Tami Asars [00:06:34]:

So there are lots of lots of poachers, lots of people who are pretty angry about the fact that hunting in the national park was at that time, they were a little fickle on the rules, but they were trying to get a grip on the on the poaching situation. So, a lot of a lot of the use for it was for rangers to patrol, for vandals, for wildfires, for poachers, that kind of thing. And in fact, backing up even more, this is kind of fun.

So in the early 1900, there were all these concessions coming into the park. So you imagine now you have this beautiful playground and this wonderland of of just amazing things right in the backcountry. And you had the clash between horses and automobiles. You had, a lot of people wanting to see this magical place, and they were trying to figure out how to make money as as any good business does. So they were talking about putting golf courses and hotels in this area and and all of that, and they had what was called the camp in the clouds at paradise, which is where you could pay a couple bucks to go camp in the, quote, unquote, clouds, which was a big canvas tent.

Tami Asars [00:07:38]:

And the pictures from that time are really cool. It’s just, you know, the women in the really long skirts with the big hats and the fluffy blouses and stuff, and that’s what they were going up there in. And Hiram m Chittenden, which Hiram Chittenden, who you may know, is, was with the Army Corps of Engineers.

You may have heard of Ballard Lock. He was responsible for that too. He his vision at that time so they put the road into paradise, was to build this 100 mile road that would touch the toes of the glaciers and circle the mountain. So he was like, we have this amazing road that goes to paradise. Let’s put in this really cool road that goes all the way around the mountain.

Tami Asars [00:08:15]:

So they kind of they kind of started doing part of that, and then that was met with environmental, frowning also even way back then kind of for 1, because the structure just with the glaciers and the amount of debris and things that come down into the river valleys was gonna be hard to maintain that road. But, also, they kind of saw that this is such a special area. Let’s see what we can do to preserve it.

So the original route was much longer that he proposed. It was about a 130 to a 140 miles compared 93, but much of the Wonderland Trail was, actually it follows the original survey lines of Hiram’s road, his vision. But today, we have one of the most amazing trails in this country right in our backyard, which is really neat.

Scott Cowan [00:09:05]:

How did it what’s the story of the name? How did we get the name the Wonderland Trail?

Tami Asars [00:09:12]:

That’s a good question. I I believe it was just it is a trail of wonders. I mean, it’s so beautiful. John Muir went and climbed Mount Rainier, and he set foot at the base of it and did some of this backcountry travel, and and his comment was the mountain is best observed from the bottom.

So, you know, people that that went and saw it, and the the the mountaineers club was also very responsible for sort of making it the wonderland trail. They were the first people to make the trek. It was a group of hikers, and, they repeated all these different outings and finally kind of helped craft the routes. But, of course, back then, they’re using horses and, you know, there is it was a lot more sustainable because there are so so many fewer people on the trail than we have now.

Tami Asars [00:10:02]:

But I I think the park service didn’t quite realize with this trail that they had made for, you know, mostly for patrols. And then later on for the mountaineers and for recreation that they had just created this gem, of of outdoor recreation that has just since skyrocketed in in interest and, and just I mean, it’s like I say, it’s one of the top ten trails in the country. It’s just spectacular.

Scott Cowan [00:10:32]:

What was the motivation for you to hike it for the first time?

Tami Asars [00:10:41]:

Well, I I have this sort of Mount Rainier is near and dear to my heart. I, I have pictures of my grandfather, in the park when he was, you know, fairly young. There’s a picture of my mom sitting up at sunrise. You know, my my family, I’m a 3rd generation Washingtonian. They’ve spent a lot of time in the park. And so I guess part of me feels very connected in that way, historically, with my lineage. And then just being there, so many wonderful things in my life had have happened in in that park. I, my husband proposed to me in the park.

Tami Asars [00:11:23]:

I I was in the park, and this is a really cool story. I my sister was in labor with my first nephew. And as I was leaving the park, this little tiny bear cub ran across the road. And I went, he’s here. He’s here. Because I had no self-service. I had no way of knowing. And then later found out that he was born right about that time, which is really, really neat.

Tami Asars [00:11:45]:

But there’s yeah. So there’s a lot of things like that that that I’ve felt connected to the park, but the you know, I’ve always loved hiking. I’ve always been a hiker. As far back as I can remember in my childhood, we we’ve been hiking as a family, and then, you know, just hiking the wonderland was just a natural fit. It was just you know, it was there. It was there, and it was beautiful, and it needed to be hyped.

Scott Cowan [00:12:08]:

There. Okay. Yep. You’ve written how many books have you published at this point?

Tami Asars [00:12:13]:

I have 5.

Scott Cowan [00:12:16]:

When you decided that you wanted to write a book on the wonderland trail, how was that received by your publisher?

Tami Asars [00:12:25]:

Awesome. It was my first book actually, which is really funny. The way it was born was sort of out of necessity. At the time, I was working for REI. I was doing some project management things, some stewardship stuff. I was teaching classes on outdoor recreation, backpacking, fall hiking, winter hiking, things like that, and I taught an entire class dedicated to the Wonderland Trail.

And what I found was that every time I taught that class, more and more people were showing up for it. And we would have we’d run out of chairs, and people would be from the sales floor, would be grabbing, like, camp chairs for people to sit on and thermorests and stuff, and they were pouring out of the event space.

Tami Asars [00:13:06]:

And it every time it got bigger, and my handout was getting thicker and thicker. And I was like, I just I need to write a book. There there really, at that time, was only one one book that had been written on it, and it was it was quite old and hadn’t been updated. And I was like, this needs to happen. So that’s kind of how it started. And, so yeah. So I wrote the book, and and the rest is history. And it was published in 20, in 2012.

Tami Asars [00:13:34]:

That was the first publishing. And so the second edition now is coming out 12 years later, and it’s pretty cool. It’s it’s been fun to watch it sort of grow and turn and morph. And, I never expected this sort of outpouring of camaraderie over this book.

It’s been really neat to meet the readers and the people who have who have had, quite frankly, their lives touched in some really amazing way by doing this trail. And, they nicknamed it the Wonderland Trail Bible, which is completely honorable.

Scott Cowan [00:14:10]:

That’s

Tami Asars [00:14:10]:

true. And and to have that that title, but, but, yeah, it’s it’s it’s been really a joy to have this book.

Scott Cowan [00:14:18]:

When you decided, you know, when you like you said, you your classes are overflowing, your handouts are becoming, you know, a a mini, a a, you know, a short story size, if you will, you know, you know, a lot of paper. Had you had any professional writing experience before?

Tami Asars [00:14:37]:

Oh, yeah. I mean, I, I have a marketing background, and so I had been doing a lot of that kind of case case studies and things like that. So and then in at REI, I was working on a lot of the program stuff and calendaring and things like that. So

Scott Cowan [00:14:54]:

So you had you had So

Tami Asars [00:14:55]:

I I had quite a quite a bit of writing background. Yes. So

Scott Cowan [00:14:58]:

it wasn’t a complete shock to you, the the amount of work that it takes to, to write a book and, the the

Tami Asars [00:15:06]:

Well, I learned.

Scott Cowan [00:15:07]:

Yeah. And, you know, there was no edits. The you gave it to, you know, your editor, and they said this is perfect, and they didn’t make any recommendations. No changes.

Tami Asars [00:15:14]:

Yeah. And they were like, wow. How are you so perfect? And that was that.

Scott Cowan [00:15:19]:

No. It’s it’s always

Tami Asars [00:15:21]:

Oh, they right now, if they’re listening to this, they’re cracking. That’s why I guarantee it.

Scott Cowan [00:15:25]:

The thing is is that I think a common thread that I’ve I’ve experienced, especially with especially with, you know, outdoor writers, is many of them kind of have the same sort of thing. You know, there’s like the whatever they’re writing about, like, this needs to be we need to there needs to be a book on this. We need to we need to document this, blah blah blah. And they’re not necessarily, you know, professional writers when they get the idea. And I I think they underestimate the amount of effort that it takes and the teamwork that it takes to to put a book together and get it published and get it on the shelves and get it sold and much less a second edition.

That’s that’s awesome. So I wanna ask you, I love asking hard questions, like, and negative hard questions. So no.

Scott Cowan [00:16:12]:

Not negative. But what went wrong when you wrote the book? Like, what what did you What what did you underestimate? Like, was there something you thought, oh, I can talk about, you know, this, that, and the other thing. It’ll be easy and, you know, and you just missed the mark. Was there anything?

Tami Asars [00:16:32]:

I I think if I’m being completely vulnerable and honest with you, I think for me, the hardest part of writing was the criticism on on every level because people, especially in the social media era and things like that, they tend to feel like, you know, they have a lot of opinions about things. And it’s very hard to write a guidebook that isn’t dry data.

Scott Cowan [00:17:01]:

Mhmm.

Tami Asars [00:17:02]:

Because there are plenty of those out there. If you want a book that tells you how far to point a to point b without any commentary, they’re diamond dust. I didn’t wanna write that book. I wanted a book for dreamers. I wanted a book for people who don’t hike as much as for people that do. I wanted people to read this book cover to cover and be able to look at the planning aspects and do that as well as dream, as well as have it be a comprehensive guide.

And that is a really hard thing to achieve because you’re either gonna have a super heavy data rich book, which is facts and figures, or you’re gonna have a book that is, you know, and I I tend to think of those books as kind of dry. They’re helpful for sure because data is great.

Tami Asars [00:17:49]:

But if you’re gonna sit down and read a book, a coffee table book, you wanna open it up and start reading from the beginning and sort of get hooked and start that planning dreaming phase. Because let’s face it. Behind every single adventure, the honeymoon phase of the planning is one of the best parts of the entire thing.

Whether you actually get going on the trail, having that excitement around doing it and planning your gear and who’s going with you in these moments and what happens when we get to this bridge and what you know? And so that all crafting that in your mind is really a key piece of this book. And it’s, yeah, I’m really proud of the fact that I wrote that with that in mind, with the dreamer in mind, because I guess, you know, we can only see things from our own lens,

Steve. Like, we can only see what we you know, how we think. And for me, that’s how I think. I want a book that is fun to read, that is interesting, and it also has everything I need in it to plan a successful adventure.

Tami Asars [00:18:52]:

So I thought that’s what I would want, so that’s what I will write.

Scott Cowan [00:18:55]:

Well and, obviously, if it’s been, you know, subtitled the the Bible of it and if it’s in a second edition, the the there’s enough people out there that have gotten value and great value out of this to to justify and warrant another another version. I wish I would have looked at appendix a before I asked you this question because I’m just curious. Did you ever, have you ever encountered the beast of ultimate challenge and looked deep into its pivotal size? I’m like, oh my god. I love it.

Tami Asars [00:19:27]:

I I have actually met that beast many times in my life.

Scott Cowan [00:19:31]:

And I’m look and I’m looking at this It’s

Tami Asars [00:19:33]:

a formal formidable appointment.

Scott Cowan [00:19:34]:

Just I mean, this is dry this is dry data in the sense it’s like, I’m just gonna arbitrarily I’m looking, clockwise, and let’s say the 12 day itinerary. You’ve got you’ve got 7 to 13 7 to 13 days. So you got a week to, let’s say, 2 weeks. And let’s just say I’m gonna try to accomplish this in 12 days. Longmire, the devil’s dream, 5.5 miles. That doesn’t sound like a lot of work. I mean, 5 5 5 and a half miles in a day seems like a bite sized chunk. Okay? Now I’m just looking at the appendix.

Scott Cowan [00:20:09]:

I’m not looking at any other data. I’m not looking at the elevation gain. I’m not looking that I have to do anything else other than than just walk 5 and a half miles that day. The next day is is devil’s dream to the South Puyallup River, 6 and a half. South Puyallup River to, I’m never gonna pronounce that, Clapsheet Park? Clapace.

Tami Asars [00:20:30]:

Clapace Park.

Scott Cowan [00:20:31]:

4.7 miles. You get the idea. The biggest day here, Sunrise Camp to Summerlin, is 10.3 miles. So that’s a that’s a to me, that’s a lot of walking in the day.

Tami Asars [00:20:41]:

And you’re looking at a 13 day itinerary, which is a little bit longer than most people would take. But yeah. So one one of the things to to think about is that, you know, there’s been people that have hiked this trail of babies, infants. Mhmm. I mean, it’s crazy the the the variation of people.

So like I said, you have people that run-in, what, 17 hours, 22 hours. Crazy. And then you have people I met this beautiful couple that took their tiny little tot on a 14 day adventure on this trail.

Tami Asars [00:21:16]:

So you just have so many different abilities. And and you have, you know, 90 year olds that go hike this trail. They’re still in great shape that go rock it out, but they’re not gonna do much more than, you know, 6 to 10 is is gonna be the upper limit.

Scott Cowan [00:21:31]:

Day. Yeah.

Tami Asars [00:21:32]:

Yeah. So so I wanted to provide itineraries for people both clockwise and counterclockwise. There was nothing like this available when I wrote this book. There was you literally had to sit down at a map and physically start calculating distances to figure out camp to camp distances. And yeah. And so I thought, let’s make the planning easy for people. Let’s make distances and dates. So if you wanna do it in 7, here’s a great way to do it in 7, you know, with kind of manageable chunks day after day based on those the the amount of time you had to spend on the trip.

Tami Asars [00:22:06]:

So that was my hope. And, yeah, and so that’s kind of a an easy planning tool to have that at your disposal.

Scott Cowan [00:22:14]:

So in your opinion, for you personally, k, like, 2 2 part question. What is the for you once again, I’m emphasizing I am asking you your opinion as at the time that we record this, it could change tomorrow. K? What do you think is the optimal number of days, and is there a season of the year you think is the optimal time to do it?

Tami Asars [00:22:39]:

Well, I mean, I I like going fast. So if I can do it in 6 days, for me, that’s ideal. And that’s simply because I’ve done this trail so much. I know it so well. I know, you know, even 5 to 6 days, 6 is more comfortable. But if you can do it a little shorter, you don’t have to do as much food cashing and and, you know, and food. You don’t have to carry as much with you. And so that makes it a little bit easier.

Tami Asars [00:23:09]:

And so, yeah, I would say I would say for me, what’s comfortable is about 6 days on this trail, but I am you know, I’ve done I’ve done a fair amount of hiking. So my body is quite adjusted to carrying weight and and the uphills and downhills. And these are legit uphills and downhills. Your knees are gonna hurt you. Your back is gonna hurt. You know? So body’s gonna start creaking and croaking if you haven’t done a lot of hiking.

Even if you’re young and in shape, it can it can throw one down on you. So and, you can talk to any park ranger, and they’ll tell you the challenges they’ve seen with people on this trail and the the help that they’ve had to provide for folks that get in a little over their head because you have to select your camps.

Tami Asars [00:23:49]:

And that’s another hard part is you have to be really honest with yourself about how far you can go. Mhmm. Because if the camp you want is further than you think you can go, but you tell yourself, it’ll be fine. I’ll just pick this camp. It’s dark. Your body hurts. Your knee isn’t cooperating. Something’s going on, and you get to a camp before that.

Tami Asars [00:24:09]:

You don’t have a permit to stay there. So it can be really challenging, and you have to keep walking. And and that’s where people get into some trouble with the with the backcountry permit situation. And I always tell people, imply the golden rule if that happens. You know, if there truly is an injury, some reason why a person can’t get to their camp, there’s not gonna be a camp spot for them most likely because most of those camps are filled every night. This is a very popular trail, and you have an assigned camp.

Now your site number is not assigned, just the location, but most of them are full. And so if you wander in a camp with a bum knee and you’re at the wrong camp, where are you gonna stay? So if you kindly ask someone if you have a situation, if you can share a camp with them, or if they know of any places that are open that you could plop your tent down, that are, you know, sustainable.

Tami Asars [00:25:01]:

And in some cases, there’s some open areas, like, where you could do that, but most people are really kind, and they’ll let you stay or move their tent to give you, you know, give you some room for that. And I’ve seen that happen on this trail.

Scott Cowan [00:25:14]:

Okay. So now the follow-up to that was what what season for you?

Tami Asars [00:25:21]:

For me, I love September time frame. The kids are back in school. There’s a little less hustle and bustle going on in the park, And there’s not as many people out there in the backcountry, but I will say that has changed this year with the timed entry program down at Mount Rainier. So, so the hustle and bustle is a little less with the timed entry than it has been previously. So, but I love September. I like the cooler temps. The bugs are gone. You have your berries that are you know, early September, the berries are ripe and ready to go.

Tami Asars [00:25:56]:

You don’t necessarily have the wildflowers that’s earlier in the season, But your views on a sunny day, boy, and a nice crisp fall day is beautiful.

Scott Cowan [00:26:09]:

How if if you could so the listeners out there and they’re thinking, you know, I like the idea of my my back hurting me and my knee giving me fits, and I’ve overextended myself. And she’s talked about bugs. Well, this all sounds lovely. But you’ve mentioned you’ve you’ve mentioned a backcountry permit. What’s the process? Is it like is it a lottery system? How how does one how does one go about getting and how far in advance is somebody organizing this?

Tami Asars [00:26:43]:

Well, that’s a great question. It used to be back when I wrote this book that you had a physical form that you printed out online. You printed it on your computer. You filled it out with your handwriting. Okay. Then you went to a fax machine because most people didn’t have a fax in their office. They had to go to, like, a what was it? Like, mailbox plus or something.

Scott Cowan [00:27:08]:

Yeah. Kinko or mailbox plus.

Tami Asars [00:27:10]:

Yeah. Kinko. Yeah. And then you’d ask them to fax it, but the problem was there are so many people the day that those open trying to fax that you would sit there playing finger yoga because the fax machine would be like, and you’d have to keep going and going. I would spend hours sitting there trying to get that fax to go through, so I’m happy to report no longer is that the case. Now and so now it’s pretty cool. They have this advanced lottery system. So in it opens in February, and the date can be a a a little bit flexible with that.

Tami Asars [00:27:46]:

And then you can for $6, you can apply to get into the advanced lottery. So the advanced lottery doesn’t necessarily mean if you win, that you’re gonna get a full wonderland loop. Because what the advanced lottery buys you, if you do win, is an opportunity to apply for a full loop. But it gives you a time frame when you can go in and log in and apply for that full loop.

So you may be kind of at the end of that time frame, and all the other people have taken the spots you wanted or those dates. So it’s a challenging trail to get permits for. I’m not gonna sugarcoat it. This one’s tough, but it’s always worth trying.

Tami Asars [00:28:28]:

It’s $6 nonrefundable. If you do get your spot, it’s great. Otherwise, you’ll get a letter that will say, sorry. You didn’t win. 30% of the camps are reserved for 1st come, 1st served. So if you don’t get a reservation in advance, you can walk in the day of or the day before and see what’s available and see if there’s a possibility of getting a full loop. Now you can’t be picky about your camps or your starting locations, and you have to kinda have that carved out of your schedule, you know, a week or however long open. And so and and another trick there is if you use so recreation.gov is the is the website that they’re using.

Tami Asars [00:29:14]:

You can go into rec.gov a week or even, you know, days before your trip and see if there’s any camps along the wonderland that have opened up. And, occasionally, if you hit that on a regular basis, you can you can sometimes book 2 or 3 camps in advance.

Now that’s not a whole itinerary, and, of course, 2 or 3 camps are probably not gonna allow you optimal starting locations, and you may end up with a 23 mile day and a, you know, 5 mile day. So but what you can do with that reservation is at least you have some camps that would probably work for you. And I’ll give you an example. Ipsit Creek in the upper, northwestern part of the park

Scott Cowan [00:29:57]:

is a is a place where

Tami Asars [00:29:58]:

you could leave your car and walk into a back country camp. So if that’s available on the 1st day you wanna come and do the Wonderland Trail, you could log on to rec.gov, pick up a YpsiC campsite, and maybe there’s another one in your itinerary that happens to be the next day. Okay. Well, now you have 2 Wonderland Trail camps that you’ve already reserved.

Then you could go into the ranger station the day before, and your odds are are substantially higher by 2 camps as opposed to going in empty handed, if that makes any kind of sense to try to get your walk up permit. So, utilizing kind of both systems is not a bad plan either. So what

Scott Cowan [00:30:38]:

okay. So what if somebody doesn’t bother to get a permit? What if they just start hiking and they show up at a camp? I mean, how are we enforcing this? Are the rangers at these camps actively? I mean, what’s in your opinion, what’s happening?

Tami Asars [00:30:57]:

Yeah. They have, active backcountry patrols, and they check permits. So, for example, when I did it last summer, my permit was checked twice, and and they’re they’re looking, you know, and people rarely are rule breakers. It’s interesting in in the park. They kind of know the hiker community is awesome. People tend to be really good about, you know, do unto others kinda thing. And so you you know that the backcountry space is limited. So if you show up, someone that you have run the the chance of someone playing, but their own putting on their ranger hat and walking around going, can I see your permit? I I don’t have a place to camp, and I’m supposed to be here this night.

Tami Asars [00:31:41]:

And trying to figure out who’s in the wrong, and that has happened too. You know? And so but oftentimes, like I say, it it’s not always people trying to be malicious and do something without breaking rules. It can be a simple misunderstanding, with their permit. It could be that they’ve gone into some sort of trouble, physically, or it it could be that they accidentally made a mistake on their permit and booked 2 nights at the same place, and they thought they were supposed to move on. So it’s all of these things combined that make this permit system a little challenging. But I will tell you, once you get it dialed and you get out there, it’s so beautiful just to get to your camp and have a little spot to camp. And, really, these problems are becoming less and less, with the new system, and then you have the timed entry on top of it. So it’s like all these regulations, and people are kind of starting to understand there’s a process here that we have to follow.

Scott Cowan [00:32:39]:

Are you aware of how many people the trails capacity is set out at this time?

Tami Asars [00:32:46]:

That’s kind of a hard question because you have a lot of different campsite options. Mhmm. You know, you could have there are campsites that are off the Wonderland Trail, like, oh, Lolli Creek Campground, for example. That one is oh gosh. What is it? I think it’s 4 or 5 miles, maybe less, off the Wonderland. So if you’re in a place where there’s no camping on the Wonderland, the park rangers may say, what about Olali? Or you look at the map and you go, I can stay there that night instead of staying on the Wonderland. Right? So how many people are on it all at once is a very difficult question. Plus, you have trail runners that are doing it from point to point that are pretty much day hiking, you know, because they’re they’re not using the backcountry camps.

Tami Asars [00:33:31]:

You have section hikers. You have fast packers. You have day hikers that are going up to Summerland and enjoying the day up there. So how many how many people are are kind of on it? It is kinda hard to say. One one thing is you probably won’t have a ton of solitude. If you’re someone who wants to go way out in the backcountry. National parks in general, obviously, are popular. So, you will see people, which to some people, they find comforting knowing that there’s others out there.

Tami Asars [00:34:02]:

I

Scott Cowan [00:34:02]:

mean You know? So I’m not a hiker. But if I was a novice hiker, I it would be it would be a dual edge thing for me. Running into people all the time would get to be little, like, But on the other hand, if I were to get mixed up, maybe I roll my ankle, something like that, it it would be comforting to know that if I’m sitting here on this log because I turned my ankle or hurt my knee, that somebody may be walking by before too long. There there’s, you know, there’s I could see both sides for me. Okay. Well Yeah. We could talk about the trail for hours and hours. And I think what I would I would prefer for this conversation is give the audience a overview of the book.

Scott Cowan [00:35:01]:

K? Yeah. Let’s let’s give the let’s let’s tease the audience. We’re not gonna tell them what’s out there, but let’s give them an overview of of how you put the book together.

Tami Asars [00:35:13]:

Alright. So in the beginning, we’re talking about planning. So all the things we just talked about in permits and a little more detail. Mhmm. We’re gonna talk about some of the history of the Wonderland, some of the areas that are that get washed out a lot, some of the challenges, things to look out for while you’re out there, behaviors in wildlife country, different areas. In fact, in this new addition, this is kind of cool. I I was so excited about adding some new things. And one of the really neat little things that I added was there’s this little bear icon that shows up the little wildlife icon, and it shows up in places where there are you are most likely to see wildlife, and it can be wildlife, not necessarily bears, just wildlife in general.

Tami Asars [00:36:02]:

It might be marmots. They have like to hang out here, or mountain goats like to hang out in this area, and it’s a little bear paw. So that’s a that’s kind of a fun one. Mhmm. I go into detail about all those things. And then another cool thing is I’ve added blue ribbon areas. So this is kind of, like, rising to the top of the pile of the Wonderland in each section, what is a sort of the highlight, and the don’t miss these areas kind of section. Then I also added on this new addition, a stay a day, which is kinda cool.

Tami Asars [00:36:38]:

So there are a ton of really great opportunities to park yourself at a camp and sort of base camp and then go day hike off the Wonderland Mhmm. And then come back to your camp. And there’s a lot of people that miss that that fly in from all over the world or, you know, in the United States, and they they don’t get to see those really cool, like, lookout towers or maybe there’s there’s a really neat feature that they wanna go check out old park cabins or things. And so I added this day a day so they could plan that into their itinerary. And then, just some fun things. You know, there’s, really, really great maps and pictures. All the pictures are are updated and, you know, new for how things change. And I added a fun section called word salad because as you found with Colpachi Park, there are a lot of really fun Native American type names in this book that are challenging to pronounce, and you can tell who’s local by the way they pronounce Puyallup.

Tami Asars [00:37:42]:

Right? And so you you hear that all different ways.

Scott Cowan [00:37:47]:

Sequim is another one. Sequim.

Tami Asars [00:37:49]:

Swim. Yeah. Swim. Me. Yeah. And, so, yeah, there’s so I added that to kinda help people, like, you know, be be locals Mhmm. In that. And then, yeah, and then I added some other hikes.

Tami Asars [00:38:05]:

Like, there’s, of course, the east side loop and the northern loop, which are smaller. They use the wonderland on one side of it, but they also do, you can put together a really great little shorter backpacking trip using part of the Wonderland in those. So that’s in there too. And then at the end, I really wanted to showcase, the like, you saw the itineraries to help people plan. I just wanted to make it seamless so they go, okay. I have a week on this trail or 8 days. How is this gonna look for me? Do I wanna go clockwise, counterclockwise when I get that, you know, opportunity to make my plan?

Scott Cowan [00:38:44]:

Right.

Tami Asars [00:38:45]:

What makes the most sense? And then, I have some appendixes, elevation gain and loss, the different camps, the number of individual sites versus group sites, and then a bunch of different trail resources for them too. So that’s how the book is laid out, and it is it is it’s eye candy. It it is a place that you will tell your grandchildren about as you put them to bed. It is the kind of place that is it it’s really a magical place, and that that sounds kind of, I don’t know, ethereal to say that, but it’s it really truly is. There’s a there’s a bond that, you know, the indigenous peoples felt with this mountain that I think passes over into all of us. When you look at it, even even just, you know, sitting at your desk in Seattle when you look out the window and you see the mountain, but when you’re underneath that and you’re that close to it and you’re walking through these raging river valleys and you’re up in these high lofty meadows and you you see a deer, you see a bear, you see something for the first time, maybe even like a bear. You’ve never seen a bear in the wild, and you come into this situation where there’s a bear in front of you eating grasses. It’s it’s just there’s something that imprints on you that you take back into your daily life where you just don’t get that chance

Scott Cowan [00:40:09]:

That’s

Tami Asars [00:40:09]:

called fear. Of of

Scott Cowan [00:40:11]:

That’s called fear. Yeah. No. Yeah. See, the thing is is Yeah. There The thing is is that what I what I love about this is that even though this is, like, not something I have experienced personally, when I get to talk to authors who are or people in general, when you’re passionate about the thing that you’re passionate about, it is contagious. Like, I’m about ready to go outside and go hiking right now because of our conversation. I’ll send you my hospital bill because that will be following shortly after my hike.

Scott Cowan [00:40:46]:

But it’s I love this because I I love the fact that, you know, you’re you’re going back and you’re updating it because things have changed. It’s not a static each time you’ve hiked the Wonderland Trail, it’s been different. Right? I mean, you might have been on the same Yep. The same path, but it’s not the same path each time.

Tami Asars [00:41:08]:

And I I think that’s because we change too. Right? Our there we’re in a different place in life every time we’re doing this or we’re in a different yeah. And and it is always offering you the same thing, which is, like, this beautiful token of, of well, I will say it, wonder. It it is really a cool place to to have adventure and wonder and to be submerged in chirping marmots and rushing waterfalls and the things you’re, you know, you’re we’re constantly we’re in a world of of lots of things ringing and and emails coming in and or having to put our fingers in a lot of different places to put out fires in our daily life. And it’s like you get out there, and there’s this, like, sort of piece that seeps through your skin. And it puts you in a different mindset, and it puts you in a different place spiritually. And I think that’s what we’re all looking for in this crazy world we live in is to find that happiness and find that path. And that’s what the Wonderland Trail is for me and for so many others that I’ve talked to.

Tami Asars [00:42:20]:

And I hope that my book is that for people that they can dream it and then go live it and see it. And I I know, after talking to a lot of readers that that they have used my book as that tool, and there’s nothing that makes me happier than getting that email from somebody because it it’s been such a a soul stab for me in seeing which is part of why I wrote this book. I mean, I’m nobody’s getting rich as an author. This is an art form. So why spend all this time and energy doing it? It’s because watching that joy through other people is so rewarding. So, yeah, so that’s why I write, honestly.

Scott Cowan [00:42:59]:

So I I haven’t asked you this question yet. So here’s the question. How’s the cell coverage out there? Do we have 5 g everywhere?

Tami Asars [00:43:07]:

That’s a good question too. They are working on getting better soil coverage in the park, but it’s not great. So you will have some probably around Sunrise, a little bit around White River up in the Summerlands, but a lot of the park and and some down in towards Paradise, but a lot of the parks, at least with the Verizon, is one bar. So you could often get a text out. But in some of the deep river valleys and especially on the west side of the park, you’re just not gonna get much thought there.

Scott Cowan [00:43:40]:

Isn’t that part of the the beauty of this? As as as as connected and as, dare I say, addicted as we are to our screens, Being forced to be disconnected while uncomfortable, isn’t it also therapeutic?

Tami Asars [00:44:04]:

Oh, for sure.

Scott Cowan [00:44:05]:

I mean Yeah. Absolutely. Everybody to have cell coverage so they can listen to the podcast all the time. I don’t you know, I’ve I’ve I Well,

Tami Asars [00:44:12]:

they can download it, can’t they?

Scott Cowan [00:44:13]:

And they should. No. I I just but the idea that, you know, I’m walking in you were saying a bear eating grass. And I’m sitting there and after after my stomach has settled back into its place and I’m not terrified and the bear is just ignoring me, basically, and I’m respecting it. I really don’t wanna hear my phone ring. I I really don’t wanna text it interrupt me. I I want to be present in that moment, even though I’m probably, you know, phantom thinking my phone is ringing. I I just I I think we I think there’s a benefit to us to when we get out in nature to get away from our connectivity.

Scott Cowan [00:44:56]:

It’s nice to have it as a safety net. If I were to turn my ankle, I could send a text and somebody would, you know, at least be notified that I’m, you know, sitting on a log somewhere on the trail. But I I I I’m I’m in I’m in thrall with the idea of disconnecting.

Tami Asars [00:45:17]:

Mhmm. Yeah. We don’t have enough places where we can really truly do that anymore Right. As as, you know, sales service expands. I I agree with you. And, you know, I will say along those lines, I do have an app. It’s yeah. It actually works without cell service, so I’ll point that out just in case.

Scott Cowan [00:45:38]:

That’s why I was leading us there. So what so you’ve got the Wonderland Trail smartphone app, and I was Yes. Guessing that it was, you know, not needing, you know, active service to work. What was the inspiration? I mean, okay. So you wrote a book. Right? And now you’ve got some code. Well, you know, those work perfectly well together. I mean, you probably did both.

Scott Cowan [00:46:06]:

Now where did you where did you get the inspiration to put together an app for this?

Tami Asars [00:46:11]:

Well, there there’s a really cool group of people. So people that do a lot of hiking and through hiking will know it. It’s formerly known as Gut Hook Guides, and now it’s called Far Out. And they’re just an amazing app writers. They write the specific format, and they have a lot of different data for all these big trails. I mean, you name a trail that you can paddle, bike ride, hike. There’s probably a far out app for it. And so I met, the founders, the owners, way back when and ended up visiting with them for quite a while, and they’re like, hey.

Tami Asars [00:46:50]:

You know this trail really well. Let’s collab and see what we can do together. We’re we have the the code, the data behind or the data minds that know how to process all this stuff. Let’s work together. So I did just that. I went out and worked with them and got gathered all the data and all the waypoints and all the photos for the app. I did the northern loop, the east side loop, and the west side loop trail. And so all of that is together in this really cool app.

Tami Asars [00:47:19]:

So when you’re on the Wonderland, if you have it on your phone, a lot of people put their phone in airplane mode much to your point where they don’t wanna ding or ping, but also that way they can save their batteries for photos and things. So they’ll have it in airplane mode, but it’s still working. So you turn it on. It’s using GPS, and it’s finding exactly where you are on the trail, how far it is to the next stream, for example, where you might wanna get water. Or say, you’re just curious how far it is to your camp, and you look down and you click, you know, something on on the app, and it’ll tell you, oh, we’re 3.6 miles from camp. So now you know, you know, that distance before dark or just it’ll show you, an actual mountain scale, like a topographical profile Mhmm. Elevation profile so you can see, like, oh, we’ve got another hill to climb before we drop into this big river valley or whatever the case may be. So it’s pretty cool.

Tami Asars [00:48:14]:

It’s neat technology. It’s it’s good to have if and and I should also mention it has user, comments on there. Mhmm. So if you come to a water source that’s dry and no longer running, say, in late September or something, and there it’s been a dry summer, you can get on there and say, you know, dry or whatever. And then or a lot of people are are funny. They’ll say, like, saw a bear here or, you know, really great spot for a break or whatever they they find for feedback, and they’ll post it on the waypoint. So when you click it, you can read that. And, it’s it’s pretty cool.

Tami Asars [00:48:48]:

So then when you get service, you can upload your comments, the comments from other users come in, and then you can have all of that at your disposal that’s pretty, you know, recent and see what’s going on. And it also is a fun planning tool. You can use it for that too.

Scott Cowan [00:49:03]:

Awesome. People that are aware of you know this, but I’m gonna guess that a lot of my audience doesn’t know this. You are I mean, there’s a number of people that have accomplished this, but it’s it’s not, it’s not all that common. You you are what’s called a triple crowner. So you’ve done the Pacific I got the acronyms in front of me, but so it’s the PCT. So that’s our audience is kinda familiar with that, at least the Washington State part of it. Yep. The CDT, that’s the Continental Divide.

Scott Cowan [00:49:45]:

Right? And the AT is the Appalachian Trail. See if I think about it. I know these things. Okay.

Tami Asars [00:49:51]:

Yeah. So Just like, you know, the fastest known time acronyms, you get all scrambled, but they make sense when you say them in their

Scott Cowan [00:50:00]:

entirety. What about the PCT and the wash in so when you did the PCT, did you do it all at once?

Tami Asars [00:50:09]:

I did. I have a book on the Passaic and the Pacific Crest Trail, Washington. So I had done the Washington section many times, and I wanted to see what the entire trail was like. So when I went and did my book tours, I could speak intelligently to California, for example, or, you know, how they compare and contrast and what’s different and where the hard parts are. So yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:50:30]:

Which way did you go from Canada down, or did you go from Mexico up?

Tami Asars [00:50:36]:

I went northbound. So I went from Mexico to Canada.

Scott Cowan [00:50:39]:

What was the this is next to impossible question, but what was your single biggest from doing that?

Tami Asars [00:50:49]:

Oh, man. It’s really tough. There’s a lot of people that I’m married, so that was one of the things is leaving, you know, my fan my husband and my dog and going out for 5 months with very little contact.

Scott Cowan [00:51:05]:

5 months.

Tami Asars [00:51:06]:

And

Scott Cowan [00:51:07]:

Wow.

Tami Asars [00:51:08]:

The PCT is a very social trail, though. And one of the really cool things is you hear a lot of people that haven’t done it say, oh, I wanna do it solo. I’m gonna do it solo. But you almost always find what’s called the tramily, which is a trail family. And it’s almost like the trail brings you together with people that are doing it, and you sorta trauma bond over all different kinds of experiences.

Scott Cowan [00:51:31]:

Trauma bond.

Tami Asars [00:51:32]:

You become you end up with lifetime friendships that the world has given you that you never would have expected. People from other countries, you know, I and it it’s just really cool. So, so being able to do it socially is really, really fun and meeting a whole bunch of different people and learning from them and hiking with them and going through experiences with them is is is crazy. It’s like taking a vacation with a whole bunch of strangers, and you’re doing you’re all doing a very difficult vacation.

Scott Cowan [00:52:05]:

Do you have any intention of doing that one again?

Tami Asars [00:52:10]:

I would love to do the PCT again, but, honestly, I think I’m at a point in my life where I like I like a little bit shorter trips. I’ve done, you know, the PCT, the CDT, the AT, the West Coast Trail, which is a shorter one up on Vancouver Island, which was amazing. Of course, the Wonderland 93, the Colorado Trail, which is, you know, almost 500 miles, the Arizona Trail, which is over 800 miles. And yeah. And so when you do all these different trails, you kinda go, you know, it’s nice being out there and love being out there and marinating in that, but I do miss my I miss friends and family, and I kind of miss all the comforts of home. And I’ve done it so much now that I’m I’m kind of shifting gears a little bit, and I still love the idea of long trails. But there’s a lot to see in a very short time on this earth, and I kinda wanna see it all. So I might be interested in doing different versions of that.

Tami Asars [00:53:08]:

You know? So

Scott Cowan [00:53:09]:

Is there a is there a hike

Tami Asars [00:53:10]:

you have doing different loops. There a

Scott Cowan [00:53:11]:

hike that you haven’t experienced that you want to?

Tami Asars [00:53:15]:

There are a lot of hikes I haven’t experienced that I want to, one being the Pacific Northwest Trail. I’ve done quite a few sections of that, but I’ve never done it in its entirety. That one’s kind of unique because it’s still in its infancy. They’re constantly working with the forest service. There’s a lot of talk in France about that one becoming what the Pacific Crest Trail is now, but right now, it connects with a lot of forest roads. It’s in a lot of really remote areas. There’s grizzly bears and mountain lions, and it’s it’s very rugged. It’s kind of what the old school PCT was before it became the well used pathway it is now.

Tami Asars [00:53:52]:

So I really am interested in hopping on that one and and getting that one, you know, seeing it now and then seeing it when it sort of morphs and watching it grow. So the the sections I’ve done are are just absolutely gorgeous, and I would love to do the whole thing. But, you know, again, that takes you away from home for a while and and kinda puts you in a different in a different place, so you have to have the right timing in your life to be able to accomplish those in one

Scott Cowan [00:54:17]:

Does does your husband like to hike?

Tami Asars [00:54:22]:

He does, but he is not really into it like I am. He is more into the adrenaline sports. So if you can’t break a bone, he’s not in. If you can hurt yourself,

Scott Cowan [00:54:34]:

he’s there. Okay.

Tami Asars [00:54:36]:

He’s there. So hiking is a is a little, probably a little bit too much mind noise for him.

Scott Cowan [00:54:41]:

Got it. Alright. As we wrap this up, I always ask my guests and so I’ve already asked you these questions, so what I’m gonna need new answers from you.

Tami Asars [00:54:52]:

Okay.

Scott Cowan [00:54:52]:

Gore’s a great place for coffee now in North Bend. What’s new?

Tami Asars [00:54:58]:

Well, the coffee scene hasn’t changed that much, but I do like hu Huxstater, which is really cool. Huxstater Coffee, it’s kind of a local shop. They put a new I don’t remember the year they put it in. They put a new building in, and it’s a beautiful building. And they have beautiful coffee shop, and then employees there are lovely. It’s, handcrafted coffee and have energy drinks and snacks and all that good stuff, but it is it is delicious coffee.

Scott Cowan [00:55:29]:

So what do you drink in there? What’s your what’s your go to right now?

Tami Asars [00:55:35]:

Right now, I’m into the seasonal. Oh, you I’m your typical

Scott Cowan [00:55:38]:

say it. Don’t say it.

Tami Asars [00:55:39]:

I know you’re No. No. I won’t I won’t even say it. How about I just say it has some cinnamon and nutmeg? Does that help a little? Oh, I totally ruined it, didn’t I?

Scott Cowan [00:55:49]:

That’s okay.

Tami Asars [00:55:50]:

Yeah. I I like I I do tend to like a little I I like strong black coffee too. I will do an Americano, you know, with the best of them. But, when I get the opportunity to get a little cinnamon or nutmeg or something spice in there, I like that too.

Scott Cowan [00:56:07]:

What do you drink at home? What’s the go to coffee at home?

Tami Asars [00:56:12]:

Double cappuccino. Extra foam.

Scott Cowan [00:56:15]:

Alright. How about lunch in North Bend area? Anything new and exciting in North Bend for lunch?

Tami Asars [00:56:21]:

For lunch in North Bend, there’s always good stuff. I I still am a huge fan of Rio Bravo. It’s a cool little, Hispanic, like, tacos. They have quesadillas. They have the it’s it’s run by quality humans, which also makes me really happy to support businesses like that. They’re they’re out there supporting the community and doing good things, and that always, yeah, that always makes the food taste better.

Scott Cowan [00:56:49]:

I didn’t scan our last our previous conversation, so I can’t remember. Did I ask you the either or question? The I

Tami Asars [00:57:01]:

think we did. So is there

Scott Cowan [00:57:02]:

any change in is I can’t remember if you were cake or pie. Cake. Cake. Okay.

Tami Asars [00:57:11]:

Yeah. It hasn’t changed. If I have to do pie, which I don’t mind from time to time, it’s gotta be, like, not a fruit pie, but a cream based pie, like chocolate, silk, or banana cream, or coconut cream, or pumpkin, or one of those that’s kind of more on the side of, like, custardy versus, you know, versus a fruit pie. Because fruit to me should be in yogurt at breakfast, not in dessert. Alright. Alright.

Scott Cowan [00:57:42]:

I mean, there’s no wrong

Tami Asars [00:57:43]:

answers here. I can I

Scott Cowan [00:57:44]:

can tease you, but there’s no wrong answers here? Well, actually, that’s not true for

Tami Asars [00:57:48]:

Yeah. It’s just how the palate is wired. Right? It’s what we like, what we like.

Scott Cowan [00:57:51]:

I will say there is one wrong answer for me because it’s, pumpkin. No. Pump

Tami Asars [00:57:57]:

Oh, you don’t like pumpkin at all?

Scott Cowan [00:57:59]:

No. My wife makes a

Tami Asars [00:58:02]:

Of any kind.

Scott Cowan [00:58:03]:

A pumpkin chili that I actually I actually have to admit I like.

Tami Asars [00:58:06]:

Woah.

Scott Cowan [00:58:07]:

But yeah.

Tami Asars [00:58:09]:

Wait. Like, actual chili. Stove top chili.

Scott Cowan [00:58:12]:

Chili pumpkin

Tami Asars [00:58:13]:

I guess

Scott Cowan [00:58:14]:

you know, cut up pumpkin pieces, and it’s in the chili. Yeah. It’s actually it’s

Tami Asars [00:58:19]:

Is is there a recipe for this that you can share? Because that sounds amazing.

Scott Cowan [00:58:23]:

I’m sure I’m sure she EDA, if you’re listening to this, don’t take this the wrong way. I’m sure she didn’t create it in her own. I know she got a recipe from somewhere. I will ask her, and I will send it to you.

Tami Asars [00:58:36]:

I would love that.

Scott Cowan [00:58:37]:

That is I would

Tami Asars [00:58:38]:

love that. You might get some requests from your listeners too. That sounds pretty cool. Sounds really neat and seasonal

Scott Cowan [00:58:43]:

right now. It’s, that is the one way that I have found pumpkin to be, palatable. I I the the story from my youth, I my grandmother, every Thanksgiving so, you know, think about this. Thanksgiving happens once a year, but it does repeat. Right? And so as a, I don’t know, 10, 11 year old, I remember my grandmother asking me, do you want some pumpkin pie with Thanksgiving? No. Thank you. I don’t like pumpkin. Okay.

Scott Cowan [00:59:12]:

Next year, do you want some pumpkin pie? I don’t like pumpkin. Since when? And it was every year, it became the since when. She just couldn’t I she she blanked that out. It was it was I think I was just a disappointment to her. But I just never Tamara’s not one that works for me.

Tami Asars [00:59:31]:

So You just don’t like the flavor, texture of both?

Scott Cowan [00:59:35]:

Flavor texture’s okay. You know? It’s okay, but it’s the flavor. It’s like, I genuinely, genuinely I tried it and anybody that drinks pumpkin spice coffee beverage this week, it doesn’t work. And if if it works for you, good. For me,

Tami Asars [00:59:56]:

no way. Not so much. No way. Well

Scott Cowan [00:59:59]:

And I dread

Tami Asars [01:00:01]:

Are you are you picky in general?

Scott Cowan [01:00:03]:

No. I’m not. No. I’m not. I mean, I’m I’m pretty, you know, I mean, I’m I’m not a big fan of, like, really super spicy stuff, things like that, but I’m not like, there are certain things I don’t like, but I’ll try things. I mean, I’ll always, you know if you said, Scott, come over, we’ll we’ll have, you know, we’ll have dinner, and it’ll be beets and pumpkin. Scott’s probably gonna be busy that day. But,

Tami Asars [01:00:28]:

yeah. Beets are another one for you.

Scott Cowan [01:00:30]:

Beets taste like dirt, and I can

Tami Asars [01:00:32]:

So I’m I’m kinda yeah.

Scott Cowan [01:00:33]:

I just but at the same time, I’ve had beets when I wasn’t necessarily aware of, like pickled beets. I like pickled beets. So go figure.

Tami Asars [01:00:42]:

How about yams?

Scott Cowan [01:00:43]:

Pass. Pass.

Tami Asars [01:00:45]:

Carrots? Root vegetables in general? Are we seeing a theme here?

Scott Cowan [01:00:49]:

Squash? No.

Tami Asars [01:00:50]:

No.

Scott Cowan [01:00:50]:

Not a big squash fan necessarily. Yeah. Root yeah. The the the fall root stuff.

Tami Asars [01:00:57]:

The the fall harvest is not in your blood?

Scott Cowan [01:00:59]:

Not for me. Not so much. So

Tami Asars [01:01:01]:

Alright. Okay. Fair enough. You know, we all have our stuff.

Scott Cowan [01:01:04]:

So I’m gonna let you have the final word. 1st off, actually, 2 things. Number 1, what did we miss that you wanna make sure we talk about? And 2, where can people find out more about you, about your books, the app, and all of that?

Tami Asars [01:01:20]:

Sure. I would love to connect with people. I think for me, as I mentioned earlier in the podcast, that brings me a ton of joy. I love hearing if you’ve used my book, if you found it helpful. I’d love to see your pictures. I’ve just met so many cool people that way. So you can reach me at my first name, last name.com, and on there, there are links to email and all my socials and all that. And it’s tami asars.com, and that will probably be on your page.

Tami Asars [01:01:53]:

I imagine that yeah. Yeah. And so that’s probably the biggest thing, where to find me. And then, you know, anytime you have, you know, something your joy to share of any of my books, I’d love to hear about it, but especially The Wonderland Trail. The Wonderland Trail was my first child, so to speak. I look at all these books as babies because each one is a labor to go through of intensity. And then once it’s born, you’re so proud of it and so happy to have it, and it becomes your your child, and you forget about all the the struggles and the challenges of writing it. And so as my first baby and my first love, this hiking the wonderland trail book is very near and dear to me.

Tami Asars [01:02:38]:

And I feel like the people I’ve met on the trail and my readers have that same love and connection with this trail. And so, yeah, they’re they’re good people, and I’d love to hear

Scott Cowan [01:02:48]:

from them. Just realized something. This this the second edition’s coming out 2 12 years after the first one was published. Right? Yes. You’re you’re getting rid of the teenagers. You’re you’re you’re resetting the clock.

Tami Asars [01:02:59]:

Yeah. That’s it. Maybe I could say it’s my grandchild. Oh,

Scott Cowan [01:03:07]:

awesome. Alright. Well, Tammy, thanks for, a, because we had some technical challenge to get get this thing started. So thank you for being patient with me there. But thank you for taking some time and sitting down again. And I I have one last question. What do you have a book on the horizon you’re thinking about?

Tami Asars [01:03:27]:

I do. I have so Alan Bauer and Dan Nelson were kind enough to suggest a predecessor for their day hiking Snoqualmie region book. It is going into another edition. And, they suggested that I would be the right fit for that, especially since I live in North Bend and it’s right in my backyard and these trails are are very close to me. And so I am in the process. It’s really super fun. I’m also writing a book on trail culture, which is super fun too, and that one has a lot of just really fun, goofy terms that people use on trails, through hikers that is just a it’s a coffee table book. It’s a it’s a giggle book.

Tami Asars [01:04:16]:

It’s a fun book, but it’s also an educational book if you’re kind of coming into the new brand new world that’s through hiking and learning about that. So it’ll get you being one of the cool kids really fast.

Scott Cowan [01:04:27]:

So when do you think that might be published? Do you have an ETA on that one?

Tami Asars [01:04:32]:

It probably will. It’ll be a couple years yet. There’s quite a bit of work to be done on it. So call me. We’re hoping to get into, next year or possibly at the beginning of 20, 2026. So, again, these books are massively data intense, and there’s a lot of you know, you have to go back over stuff and make sure everything’s correct, and you work so hard at it. And so putting these to market is it’s a labor of love by both Mountaineers Books, who is a fantastic publisher, and myself who, you know, does all the legwork and the writing and the all the, little quirky things that are included, including my bad dad jokes from time to time.

Scott Cowan [01:05:13]:

Well, I hope you’ll come back on when you’ve got a new book and we can talk about it.

Tami Asars [01:05:18]:

I’d love to. Thank you for inviting me.

Scott Cowan [01:05:20]:

Thanks for being a repeat guest. Maybe, like I don’t know. Did you ever see the Saturday Night Live where they have the skit for the 5 timers club of your

Tami Asars [01:05:28]:

No.

Scott Cowan [01:05:29]:

It’s a a running get

Tami Asars [01:05:31]:

I thought so.

Scott Cowan [01:05:31]:

So so, you know, there’s some of the famous people have been on Saturday, like Steve Martin, Tom Hanks. You know? Yeah. And so there’s a private club where they always whenever a new host has entered entered the club, it’s like there were bathrobes that say 5 on them and all that. So maybe one of these days, we’ll

Tami Asars [01:05:46]:

do something like that

Scott Cowan [01:05:47]:

for, you know, repeat for

Tami Asars [01:05:48]:

repeat test.

Scott Cowan [01:05:49]:

Yeah. Some something quirky and Yeah. A little little bit off. So, anyway but thank you so much for being here.

Tami Asars [01:05:55]:

Yeah. Oh, you’re very welcome. Thank you for having me.