In this episode of the Exploring Washington State Podcast, Scott Cowan welcomes Kendall Jones, founder of the Washington Beer Blog, to discuss the history and future of craft beer in Washington State. Kendall shares his journey from an aspiring rock star to a renowned voice in the beer community, weaving together stories of personal discovery, local breweries, and the unique character of Washington beer.

From Bellevue to Blogging

Kendall’s story begins in Bellevue, Washington, where his teenage dreams of becoming a rock star shaped his early years. Although music didn’t become his career, Kendall’s creativity and passion for storytelling found a new outlet in writing. His career path shifted again when he discovered the world of craft beer, a moment sparked by a life-changing sip of Samuel Smith’s Tadcaster Porter.

That experience opened the door to exploring beer differently, and Kendall began documenting his journey. Eventually, he launched the Washington Beer Blog. This website quickly became a trusted resource for beer enthusiasts across the state.

The Craft Beer Boom in Washington

Washington’s craft beer industry has grown immensely since the early 2000s, and Kendall had a front-row seat to its evolution. When Kendall first considered writing a book about local breweries, he realized the market was expanding too rapidly to keep up. Instead, he turned to blogging, a format that allowed him to document the dynamic changes as they happened.

Kendall reflects on the early days of now-iconic breweries like Georgetown Brewing, whose Bodhizafa IPA helped define the style of Washington IPAs. He discusses how smaller, independent breweries have contributed to the state’s reputation as a leader in craft beer and the unique challenges they face in a competitive market.

The Stories Behind the Beer

Beyond the beer itself, Kendall has always been captivated by the people and stories that define the industry. From the innovative brewers crafting bold new flavors to the small business owners overcoming challenges, Kendall’s blog has highlighted the human side of brewing. He shares anecdotes from his years of experience, offering listeners a deeper appreciation for the passion and hard work that go into every pint.

Scott and Kendall also discuss the importance of community in the craft beer world. Local breweries often become gathering places that reflect the personality of their neighborhoods. Whether it’s a cozy taproom in a small town or a bustling brewery in Seattle, each spot tells a story about the people and culture of the area.

What’s Next for Craft Beer?

Kendall explores some challenges facing the craft beer industry, from rising production costs to changing consumer preferences. He explains how breweries adapt by experimenting with lighter styles, like lagers, and embracing trends such as non-alcoholic beers.

Despite the obstacles, Kendall remains optimistic about the future. He points to brewers’ continued innovation and creativity as a reason to be excited. New breweries are still opening, and established ones are finding ways to stay relevant in an ever-changing landscape.

Why Washington Beer Matters

Washington’s beer culture is more than just a collection of breweries—it reflects the state’s creativity, resilience, and sense of community. Kendall believes the industry’s success lies in its ability to evolve while staying true to its roots. From the farmers growing hops in the Yakima Valley to the brewers experimenting with new styles, Washington beer celebrates local ingenuity.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone who loves craft beer or is curious about the stories behind Washington’s vibrant brewing industry. Whether you’re a seasoned beer enthusiast or new to craft brews, Kendall’s insights and passion will inspire you.

Tune in for a conversation that delves deep into the evolution of craft beer, the people behind it, and what makes Washington a special place for beer lovers.

Kendall Jones Washington Beer Blog Episode Transcript

Hello, friends, and welcome to the Exploring Washington State podcast. My name is Scott Cowan, and I’m the host of the show. Each episode, I have a conversation with an interesting guest who is living in or from Washington State. These are casual conversations with real and interesting people. I think you’re gonna like the show, so let’s jump right in with today’s guest. I am sitting here this afternoon. I I gotta preface this for everybody who’s listening. When we’re recording this, it’s a Friday afternoon.

Scott Cowan [00:00:32]:

And Kendall Kendall Jones is my guest, and Kendall’s sipping a beer, and I have one too. This which normally I have coffee, but which we’re gonna talk about, but, we’re drinking beer this afternoon. So, Kendall, before I get you going, what are you drinking this afternoon?

Kendall Jones [00:00:48]:

I am drinking a, recently released IPA, a new one from Reuben’s Brews. It’s called Brighten Up. It’s, it’s not hazy, but it’s a a little bit hazy, meaning it’s unfiltered, but it’s not intentionally hazy. It’s pretty tasty. Lots of good tropical fruit flavor.

Scott Cowan [00:01:05]:

Okay. Well, I’m having a Elysian space dust. I’m, you know, just kind of the I stumbled across that one in, like I told you before, you know, I’d stopped drinking beer for a while because it wasn’t it we weren’t getting along anymore.

Kendall Jones [00:01:19]:

Right.

Scott Cowan [00:01:19]:

But Space Dust, yeah, I kinda like it. So, Kendall, you have a blog called Washington what the Washington beer blog, and I think you’re the 1st person I’ve talked to in a long time that whose website is older than than mine because you’re you’re you’re stating o eight. I started in 2010. So you got a couple years on me. Thanks for sitting down.

Kendall Jones [00:01:43]:

You know, I called it a blog because that was, like, a cool word to use back then so long ago. That’s what the name of my website dates itself.

Scott Cowan [00:01:56]:

I love it. So you live in in Seattle area, and earlier, you said you were born in Tacoma and grew up in the Bellevue area.

Kendall Jones [00:02:06]:

That’s correct.

Scott Cowan [00:02:08]:

When you were a kid, I don’t think you thought about having a beer blog. So, what did you wanna do before you got into this?

Kendall Jones [00:02:19]:

What did I want to do? Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:02:21]:

What did you want

Kendall Jones [00:02:21]:

to do? I wanted to be a rock star.

Scott Cowan [00:02:24]:

Okay.

Kendall Jones [00:02:24]:

You know who didn’t. Right? But I before I got into this, what I did do is I I worked in technology. I worked for a for many years I worked in software.

Scott Cowan [00:02:36]:

Okay.

Kendall Jones [00:02:37]:

For a time I worked, what felt like the majority of my adult life even though it was only a number of years, for a large software manufacturer and based in Redmond, Washington. And, they tended to put, you know, you know, over the course of just a few years, they tended to put a lot of miles on me. Then I moved on to another company, and I was working in the software industry as a writer, doing primarily, like, marketing and, like, user facing writing. And then 2,008, 2009 happened, and people like me were immediately expendable. So I ended up, trying to find a job in a market that was just really depressed, and it was really, really hard. And at some point, I had started this Washington beer blog, and it was, it was kind of it was intentionally we were we intended to write a book about Washington beer, and it was gonna be kind of a guide to, like, all the breweries in Washington. We wanted to we wanted to write a book about my wife and I wanted to do a book about going around and touring all 75 of the breweries in Washington. But by the time we got done with that conversation, there were 95.

Kendall Jones [00:03:44]:

And by the time I started talking about, you know, mapping out what it would be to actually do the research to write the book, there was a 110, you know. So it was like it was just growing too fast, and we’re like, this can’t this can’t can’t happen in a book form. It’s just gonna have to be updated to to too frequently, you know. So at this point it was just like it was crazy, you know. What we imagined doing really couldn’t happen. And so we just decided we had a, here in West Seattle, I live in West Seattle, and we have a very very prolific neighborhood blog that’s actually been nationally recognized. And it’s like, you know, you hear a siren go down the street, you get on the blog to see what it’s about. You don’t you find out anything that’s happening in West Seattle, you find out about on the West Seattle blog.

Kendall Jones [00:04:23]:

And at the time, I was like, I wanna be the West Seattle blog, but for Washington beer. That was my entire that’s the other reason why I ended up calling it a blog is that I did honestly I mean, I I proudly I’m proud to say that I I fashioned my blog after Tracy and what she’s done with the washing with the West Seattle blog because it’s hugely successful. I mean, she’s been to the White House. She’s met the president because of her because her blog is so great. The the local news media quotes her stories all the time, you know. So I was like, I’m very proud to say that I I based my business after hers. She’s she’s sending a mark remarkable job, and, I just wanted to be something like that for the Washington beer community.

Scott Cowan [00:05:00]:

Alright. We’re gonna come back to that though because you said something, and I gotta we’re gonna follow-up on something. As a kid, you wanted to be a rock star.

Kendall Jones [00:05:08]:

That’s true. I still do. I’m not a kid anymore, but

Scott Cowan [00:05:12]:

What did you who did you wanna be?

Kendall Jones [00:05:16]:

Oh, that’s that’s an interesting question. I, the people that I would say I idolized as, you know, Robert Plant. Yeah. If if I had to pick 1, it’d be Robert Plant or Ozzy Osbourne.

Scott Cowan [00:05:32]:

Robert Plant or Ozzy Osbourne. Okay.

Kendall Jones [00:05:34]:

Rock and roll. You know? Hardcore rock and roll. So And that my my musical taste changed over the years and, you know, eventually, I I realized the value of, being something more like a Jimmy Buffett.

Scott Cowan [00:05:45]:

Okay.

Kendall Jones [00:05:45]:

Having a career that lasted longer and made you, you know, 1,000,000,000 of dollars instead of 1,000,000 of dollars. But, yeah, those were all pipe dreams. But, you know, I I still play guitar and sing a little bit and played in a rock band for 15 years, that we just, you know, we just disbanded, you know, when we all got into our mid to mid fifties and decided we shouldn’t be trying to be, you know, hardcore heavy metal rockers anymore.

Scott Cowan [00:06:07]:

What was the band called?

Kendall Jones [00:06:09]:

We were called 4 on the floor.

Scott Cowan [00:06:11]:

I’ve I’ve heard that name before. I haven’t seen you, but I heard heard that name before. Okay.

Kendall Jones [00:06:15]:

We played a lot of well, because of who I am and who I know, we played a lot of brewery anniversary parties and different events at breweries. We played at the Washington Brewers Festival out in in in, at Marymore Park a couple of times. And, one our mutual friend, Chris Baldwin, he designed the logo for 4 on the floor, and it was such an unbelievably obvious rip off of the Mattel Hot Wheels. It’s like, I, you know, I keep waiting for that cease and desist letter. Which I would frame and put on the wall. But, I mean, it’s just that our logo that’s, like, on our drum head and on t shirts and stuff is just such an obvious rip off of the Hot Wheels logo, and it’s beautiful. Chris did a great job on it.

Scott Cowan [00:06:54]:

Now I would say Chris would defend himself and say he wasn’t he wasn’t ripping anybody off. He had that was pure inspiration on his part.

Kendall Jones [00:07:00]:

Absolutely. I’m sure I’m sure this one. Yeah. Uh-huh. You should see the logo though.

Scott Cowan [00:07:07]:

I never saw Zeppelin live, but I went and saw Robert Plant a handful of years ago in Spokane. And I was absolutely like, how did I miss this guy?

Kendall Jones [00:07:21]:

Yeah. He

Scott Cowan [00:07:21]:

at at he at that time, he was, like, 72 years old. And the the stage presence he has, without being flamboyant or anything, he just he just commanded the room, and it was, like, and his band was phenomenal. But yeah. Robert.

Kendall Jones [00:07:41]:

You probably saw the, the most recent tour. I never saw Zeppelin. I’m I’m not that old. But, I never I saw I you know I saw Paige Plant, you know, the the after, you know, after Bonham had died and they’ve been formed we got got back together in the the mid and late nineties. I saw that those shows which were great, and I saw them I saw Plant, most recently he was performing with not I mean not with but the opening act was Lucinda Williams. Okay. And I got to see that out at Marymore Park and, Jed, you’re right. I mean Robert Plant is just and his voice is nothing at all like it was when he was 19 years old singing a whole lot of love.

Kendall Jones [00:08:22]:

No. But his voice is still just butter and it’s just, you know, he’s he’s he’s he’s a he’s an inspiration to me still because he proves that you you don’t have to be able to sing like you could when you were 22 years old to still be a great singer and, like you said, command a room and sing with emotion and heart and really, you know, be able to touch people that way.

Scott Cowan [00:08:42]:

So did both Lucinda Williams and Robert Plant sing, can’t let go?

Kendall Jones [00:08:48]:

That’s funny. No. No. They didn’t. That is funny. And it would have been awesome if they’d done it together, but that didn’t happen.

Scott Cowan [00:08:54]:

So the guy who wrote that song lives in Seattle. Oh, really? Randy Weeks. Who wrote

Kendall Jones [00:08:59]:

that? Who?

Scott Cowan [00:09:00]:

Randy Weeks. And he if you get a chance, he plays at the sea monster in Wallingford on Sundays, like, the 1st and third Sunday of each month, like, from 4 to 7 o’clock. I mean, it’s like the senior citizen special, you know.

Kendall Jones [00:09:15]:

You know, if I if cause I’ve written a few songs in my day too. But I mean, if I, if I wrote a song and either of those artists say my song, I would just be like, I’m done.

Scott Cowan [00:09:24]:

It’s not gonna get any better than this. I’m done. We saw him play. So a fellow West Seattleite is Christy McWilson. Do you know do you know Christy?

Kendall Jones [00:09:35]:

I have met her. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:09:37]:

Christy’s, my wife and I really enjoy seeing Christy when she plays, and so September, I think, last year. She played up in Conway at the Conway Muse.

Kendall Jones [00:09:48]:

Mhmm. Have

Scott Cowan [00:09:49]:

you ever been to that venue?

Kendall Jones [00:09:51]:

I’ve been to the con is that the is that the same as the Conway Tavern or whatever? No. It’s up there that, oh, okay. No. The Conway has a dairy barn. Oh, cool.

Scott Cowan [00:09:59]:

And they’ve got so the Conway Muse has 3 stages. They have an outdoor stage, which is an old semi truck trailer that’s converted into a stage, round fire pits and all this stuff. And then the dairy barn has a very, intimate for, like, 1 or 2 people to play. And then upstairs is holds about 120 people. And, we went there and Randy was the opening act for Christy this time, and I’ve never seen the guy before. Go go you’re close. What Wallingford is not far. You go go see him.

Scott Cowan [00:10:28]:

It’s early. You we you’re not that old. I’ll go that I’ll go that early in the afternoon.

Kendall Jones [00:10:33]:

Right. So it’s it’s not it’s not a, doors at 9. No. 4 o’clock. Starts at 10 kind of place. 4 o’clock. Sunday afternoon. Yeah.

Kendall Jones [00:10:41]:

That’s that’s awesome. I mean, I wish more places did that. Yeah. I mean, I I love that kind of show. Okay.

Scott Cowan [00:10:46]:

He he I think you’ll enjoy him. He’s he’s in his band or

Kendall Jones [00:10:51]:

I’ve got a beer related Chris McWilson story.

Scott Cowan [00:10:53]:

Okay. Let’s hear

Kendall Jones [00:10:54]:

that. Okay. This would have been probably 20 years ago. Yeah. It was 20 years ago. I longer ago than that, about 25 years ago, I started an organization called Beer Church, And it it stemmed it stemmed from the idea that we could put together parties just like we did in college where we would have kegger parties and earn money to help pay our rent and help pay our electricity bill and stuff, but instead we would have these beer focused parties, and earn money for various charitable causes.

Scott Cowan [00:11:23]:

Okay. And

Kendall Jones [00:11:24]:

we we’ve we’ve doing at least one event a year ever since then, and it’s it’s pretty cool. But beer church is a different thing than what we’re talking about today. But way back then, I was contacted. I’d I’d gotten some press for beer church and, some big press and international press, actually.

Scott Cowan [00:11:40]:

Oh, wow.

Kendall Jones [00:11:41]:

Yeah. I was on morning edition on NPR talking to they were talking to me about beer church and stuff, and they did a whole piece of it, you know, like, you know, and I was, like, 2 or 3 minutes on NPR in the morning about beer church, and things just blew up. And next thing I knew, I was on radio stations all over the world and armed forces radio and, you know, every version of the mountain, and every version of the end, and every media market around the United States, which was enlightening, but, you know, they have a mountain in, you know, every every city, every major city has the same radio stations that we do. Just slightly different names, you know, that was the beginning of the consolidation of radio. But anyway, I got contacted by a show, by the Food Network or whatever it was. I don’t know if it was the Food Network or what, but it was Bobby Flay.

Scott Cowan [00:12:27]:

Alright.

Kendall Jones [00:12:27]:

It was barbecue with Bobby Flay, one of Bobby Flay’s very original early shows. And they contact me and they said, you know, do you guys have anything coming up? We’re gonna be up there in, like, you know, the end of August, let’s say, whatever it was. We’re gonna be up there in the end of August doing some other stuff. And if you guys if you guys just happen to have some sort of a beer church event going on, we would love to come by. And if it involved barbecue or something, then we would love to come by and and check out your event for the show. And I said, well, how about that? We just happened to have an event coming up, that week in August. Right?

Scott Cowan [00:12:58]:

Woah. Who knew?

Kendall Jones [00:12:59]:

So we threw it together real quick, and it was a beach party here in West Seattle down by the Fontainebleau Ferry Dock

Scott Cowan [00:13:05]:

Alright.

Kendall Jones [00:13:05]:

By between between Lincoln Park and the Fontainebleau Ferry Dock, if people know where that’s at. We had a friend lived on the beach down there, and we had a big beach party, and we got Christy to come. And Christy came, and her band came and played on the deck of this house. Now when they when they edited it all down, our spot on barbecue with Bobby Flay was about 3 and a half minutes or something it was really lame and it made me realize that we should never do that again you know it’s like it was it was way too much work for too little exposure but Christy got some national TV recognition that day I mean at least she was in the background playing. I don’t think they ever mentioned her name or anything, but she was in the background playing, which was pretty cool. And we were I was I mean, I was seriously I was blown away that she agreed to come and do this. We had some mutual friends or something because, you know, West Seattle. Right.

Kendall Jones [00:13:51]:

We had some mutual friends, and I just I was just, I mean, she’s so great and, I mean, she’s such a great entertainer and such a great singer and I was just, like, I was so blown away that she wanted to come and play this party for us and that was really cool.

Scott Cowan [00:14:04]:

I I had a she’s been a guest on the show. And, I oh, back in, like, 1982, Christy was in a band called the Dinette Set. Alright? And I saw them once or twice back in the early eighties. Forgot all about her. Sorry, Christy. But there’s a guitar player by the name of Dave Alvin, out of California and Dave plays up in like in Seattle at the tractor is where I’ve seen a friend of mine introduced me to Dave Alvin and we’d go see Dave. And we went down to hardly strictly bluegrass 1 year in San Francisco, Dave, blah, blah, blah. And Christy has recorded with Dave.

Scott Cowan [00:14:51]:

Dave’s produced some of her albums. She would get up on stage with Dave, and I thought, I should get Christy on this would be kinda cool, you know? I was like, I forgot about the dinette setup, etcetera, etcetera. So I reached out to Christy’s, manager and, work things out. And she said, come on over to the house. We’ll record at the house. Okay. So, I drove her from Wenatchee over to to Christy McQuelson’s house. Never never been to her home, really had only said hello to her and passing at a bar.

Scott Cowan [00:15:21]:

And she knew that I liked the heats, the band from Seattle. And Yeah. She and, oh my god. I’m drawing a blank on her name, and I’m gonna never forgive myself if I forget her name. Oh, forgive me. It was the other singer in the band, and she’s been a guest on the show too, and it’s gonna come to me and it’s gonna drive me nuts. Anyway, they did an acoustic version of I Don’t Like Your Face for me, while we were recording the episode. And then all of a sudden, the band’s there on the deck, and and they’re playing, and it was it was just a surreal experience.

Scott Cowan [00:15:52]:

She’s a wonderful person. So there we go. And why can’t I think? I am so sorry. I am spacing her name, and that’s gonna drive me absolutely nuts.

Kendall Jones [00:16:04]:

So probably think of it before we’re done talking. So don’t worry about it.

Scott Cowan [00:16:09]:

So you wanted to be a rock star. You became

Kendall Jones [00:16:11]:

a writer

Scott Cowan [00:16:12]:

in the tech industry. So there’s a little disconnect there. You mentioned kegs in college. So where’d you go to school at

Kendall Jones [00:16:19]:

Western in Bellingham.

Scott Cowan [00:16:20]:

You went to Western. Is that where you met Chris? Just out of curiosity.

Kendall Jones [00:16:23]:

No. We act well, kind of. I mean, that’s where we started to be friends and hanging out together quite a bit, but we had a lot of mutual friends in high school. We didn’t go to the same high school, but we went to adjacent high schools and had a lot of friends that, you know, I had we had friends that had gone to junior high school together, you know, and things like that. So, you know, I mean, we we probably hung out at some parties when we were in high school too, but we didn’t really know each other and started hanging out until we were in college.

Scott Cowan [00:16:49]:

And the person’s name is Ricky Mifune. Sorry, Ricky.

Kendall Jones [00:16:52]:

Ricky Mifune.

Scott Cowan [00:16:53]:

Yeah. She’s a wonderful person. Just had that moment. So you went to Western. K. I went to Central. You know, I’m kinda seeing you mentioned kegs in school. We we never did that.

Scott Cowan [00:17:03]:

Actually, my my very first day as a freshman at Central, my roommate tried to bring a keg into the dorm and was kicked out of school that day. First day. Because central didn’t allow forget the underage thing. It was they just didn’t allow kegs. So Yeah. Yeah. Alright.

Kendall Jones [00:17:24]:

I know people that I knew that went to central, said there was a lot of parties out on the river.

Scott Cowan [00:17:29]:

Lot of river, lot of people’s pond. It was a fun time. I mean, my bio used to say my freshman year was the best 6 years of my life. So, anyway, I had a good time. Met some wonderful people there, lifelong friends. So you started the blog in o eight kind of out of a need for, like you said, employment wasn’t

Kendall Jones [00:17:51]:

No. It was before I’d lost my job, actually. Okay. It was before I got laid off, but it was, like I say, it was a it was response to decide the decision that we couldn’t write the book, or that we shouldn’t write the book. And we started the blog, and it started very, you know, very small. And it was just I was doing it very, very part time. You know, I was just, you know, pushing a couple of stories up a week, and they were very short and very simple, and there was not much to it. But then after a couple of years, you know, and after, you know, so I guess it was probably just over more than a year later that I that I ended up on the streets looking for work.

Kendall Jones [00:18:25]:

And then, you know, like, a year of banging my head against that wall trying to find a job, my my wife was like, you should see if there’s a way that we can, you know, maybe monetize the blog, and maybe you should be doing this more full time. And, I still wasn’t sure how that was gonna look, and I’m still not sure how that’s gonna look. But, but, you know, so yeah. Then it became more of a full time kind of thing, and I started really ramping it up and got some great advice from people that said, you know, if you want it if you want if you really wanna make a go at this, you need to get your name out there. You need to be writing, you know, not just for your own blog. You need to be writing for local magazines and for magazines and get some by lines. So I started doing that, and I wrote for Seattle Magazine. Was a I was a big contributor to Seattle Magazine for a few years.

Kendall Jones [00:19:12]:

Had at one point, there was the biggest story I had in Seattle Magazine. You know, there was different than it. There’s new owners now. Seattle Magazine is back, which is great, but they were down for a couple of years. They went there was a bankruptcy problem. They were down for a couple of years, and now they’re back, but with new owners and stuff. But when back when I wrote for them, it was pretty remarkable. I think it was like, I don’t know, 2013 or 2014 or something that I got the there was a few years where I got the cover story.

Kendall Jones [00:19:36]:

Beer was on the cover of Seattle Magazine, you know, and which was pretty awesome. And then 1 year I had a total of, like, 14 pages of content that I created for, in in, you know, a a regional lifestyle magazine. I mean, was that that’s that didn’t speak so much to how how prolific I’d become or were anything about me as where craft beer had come. That a magazine like Seattle would, like, dedicate that much of its it’s so many pages to to beer, and that that they were able to get advertisers to to help make that happen and stuff. It it it spoke volumes about what had happened in the world of craft beer. So for me, the reason I bring that up is that was the trajectory, you know, like I I mentioned earlier that we went from, like, 75 to a 100 to a 110 to a 190 to 250 breweries just like amazing. We’re, you know, we had 3 or 4 breweries opening every month, sometimes more, and that went on and that was a nationwide phenomenon and that was like a wave that I was writing. I just my blog got more and more popular and got more and more traction and more and more hits, for lack of a better way to put it.

Kendall Jones [00:20:45]:

As the craft beer thing just continued continued to gain momentum. And I kind of, rode that wave and, you know, here I am.

Scott Cowan [00:20:54]:

When you were writing for sale magazine, was Lou Max in there?

Kendall Jones [00:20:58]:

I do not remember Lou. Okay. But I did not know a lot of people there. I knew my, you know, I knew my direct debtors, my direct reports, shall we say. And like if they were if they wrote about cocktails and wine and be here or, you know, I was the beer writer, you know, AJ was the cocktail writer and, you know, that’s kind of the way we worked. I I moved in that circle.

Scott Cowan [00:21:20]:

What drew you to beer?

Kendall Jones [00:21:24]:

That’s a good question. I well on it I mean what drew me to beer but I mean everybody you know, it’s the most popular alcoholic beverage on earth. Right? It’s it’s by far the most popular. I mean, that I’m not it’s not most people are are not are omnibibulous, and they’ll they’ll drink it. They’ll drink other things too. But, beer is the most popular beverage on alcoholic beverage on earth. So it’s not unusual that I got attracted to beer. I kind of at some point, a lot of people do.

Kendall Jones [00:21:59]:

But for me, where it really where I became kind of maybe more like beer obsessed isn’t the right word but where I became a little bit more of an enthusiast and more kind of hardcore about it was I was I was probably 16 or 18 years old and I was fortunate to have parents that were liberal in a certain kind of way conservative in another but and then I had they so they they didn’t have a problem with me drinking responsibly when I was you know coming of age and I had friends whose parents were from England.

Scott Cowan [00:22:32]:

Oh.

Kendall Jones [00:22:33]:

And their fridge, my dad’s fridge never had anything but Rainier beer in it. And my dad explained to me at a young age that, you know, we’re Rainier men. Your your brother-in-law is an Ole man but we’re Rainier men that that kind of thing right? So I grew up a Rainier man I guess but my English friends had parents whose fridge was full of all sorts of different things. And at one point you know I went down to grab a beer out of their beer fridge in the garage and I reached in there and all the reindeer was gone and, there I’ve asked asked the father if I could have this beer, and he said, sure. And I opened it, and it was Samuel Smith’s Tadcaster Porter.

Scott Cowan [00:23:16]:

Okay.

Kendall Jones [00:23:17]:

I thought for years that it was the oatmeal stout, but then I, like, woke up in the middle night and had a dream. I was like, no. It was the Taddie Porter. So it was and so this is when I’m, like, probably 17 years old, I’m guessing. 17, 18 years old. And I drank this beer. I’m like, oh, and I this was, you know, for somebody who, you know, grew up around American, you know, light beers like that, I’d just like I’d never had anything like this. It was crazy.

Kendall Jones [00:23:41]:

And then one of my buddies said, Well, you should have my granddad’s beer. He’s coming down from granddad’s coming down from Vancouver next week. He’ll probably bring some of his beer. And I go, What? What do you mean his beer? So, oh, he makes his own beer. I was like, he makes his own beer? What the hell are you talking about? So, and granddad’s beer was not not necessarily good, but it was way better than the homebrew that me and my friend Jonas Hinton found ourselves making a few weeks later because that was horrible. So, yeah, I actually I brewed my first batch of homebrew, I think, when I was, like, 18 years old. And it was horrible and it was probably a year and a half or 2 years later before I gave it another shot and that was after I’d moved to Bellingham and had my own kitchen to work in and stuff. I I was never I was never a dorm rat.

Kendall Jones [00:24:32]:

I always rented houses, lived with guys in houses and stuff. So we, lived at 513 East Ivy and, wow, Chris Baldwin keeps coming into this conversation. So we started me and my friend Scott Donham started, making beer and we made we made some pretty damn good home brew for what was it we had available to us at the time. And this is when we were, like, 20. I was maybe 21 at this point. Scott wasn’t 21 yet. But, we made some beer, and and Baldwin made labels for us and put it in bottles and and paste it on some silly labels to it. And that was that was pretty classic.

Kendall Jones [00:25:07]:

We actually ended up getting a story in the, the local college magazine and I mean I can’t remember what they forward forward focus or western western front it was the magazine they they did a story about us crazy guys making our own beer in the basement in in Bellingham and you know Baldwin had made the labels for us and stuff and it was pretty classic. But yeah, so I became a homebrewer and I home brewed my way all the way through college and then continued to homebrew after I got out of college. And then not long after I got out of college, I started going out, you know, I was of age, so I started going out to bars and stuff. And by, you know, by the 19 early 1990s, I was going out to bars and was able to order beers that were way better than the beers I was making myself at home. And, you know, I know home brewing is a passion. It’s not so much about making the best beer, it’s about making your beer. Mhmm. But I got over that pretty quick.

Scott Cowan [00:26:00]:

You got over that one. Okay.

Kendall Jones [00:26:01]:

And when I was able to go out and buy Redhook, Blackhook, Pyramid Wheaton Ale, all the beers from Grant’s, you know, some of those pails, some of those early craft beers and stuff I was on. I don’t need to be wasting my time trying to make beer at home anymore. I I just like drinking good flavorful beer. So that was that was kind of like my introduction. So I’ve kind of been with the whole craft beer thing since it began.

Scott Cowan [00:26:25]:

Right.

Kendall Jones [00:26:26]:

You know, and I had going back to where I said TadCast Reporter from Samuel Smith, you know, they’re a big brewery in in England, with pubs all all across England. But, that beer was originally imported into the United States began in the late seventies, by Charles Finkel, who was people might know Charles if you know Charles, you know him because of Pike Brewing, most likely. He was the he was a Seattle bond event for a long time. He was the man about town. And, every new bow tie, Charles, and, he his company merchant Du Vin which he started before he started the brewery was importing these English and European beers into the United States and one of them one of the early ones was the TEDcast reporter from Samuel Smith so I thought it was cool that I eventually got to meet Charles and thank him for you know hit or thank him Charles I still blame you to for to I blame him for getting me obsessed about beer because of that one beer. And, he did me one one better. I actually got to tour the Samuel Smith’s facility in Yorkshire many many many many years later and that’s not something that people generally get to do. So Willy Wonka kind of thing.

Kendall Jones [00:27:48]:

Okay. That brewery they they kinda don’t like to let people behind the curtain. And, but I was able to somebody was like I was working with somebody I tell them I wanna go I wanna tour it, I wanna tour it, I wanna tour it. And they said they don’t do that. They don’t do that, especially not the media. They just don’t do that. And I was like, don’t make me get uncle Charlie involved. And I dropped the Charles Finkelbaum on and they’re like, alright.

Kendall Jones [00:28:11]:

I’ll set it up. Alright. So, yeah, my wife and I got to tour the Willy Wonka’s chocolate factory. For for beer people, it’s Willy Wonka’s chocolate factory. And it’s unlike any other brewery. I’ve been in a lot of breweries in my life, but it was unlike any other brewery I’ve been in. It’s kind of like I walked away from it just going, there’s no way they actually do it there. There’s no way that all works.

Kendall Jones [00:28:31]:

I mean, there’s, like, there’s some magic or something. There’s something they didn’t show us, but whatever. That’s a kind of a adjacent story. But, yeah. So yeah, I go way back in the beer thing.

Scott Cowan [00:28:42]:

So I gotta ask you this question. So you you tried this British beer. Now earlier, you said your dad said you were your Rainier man. Mhmm. Was dad disappointed in you when he came home and he said I

Kendall Jones [00:28:55]:

was no not mean honestly my you know my dad was gone by the time I started really getting into this professionally or really seriously but no I don’t think he would have been disappointed in me for any of this you know I think he I think he would have been proud of me for finding my own way he was a real kind of safe self made find your own way in the world kind of guy so I think he probably would be proud of me for making something out of nothing you know finding finding a place for myself and making something happen

Scott Cowan [00:29:26]:

Candid question. What do you think of Rainier beer?

Kendall Jones [00:29:30]:

It’s the most amazing thing because Rainier beer is now made at a gigantic facility down in Los Angeles where they make a lot of they make same place where they make Olympia, the same place where they make Pabst Blue Ribbon, where they make Lone Star, where they make so many different beers down at that gigantic facility. But I’m telling you, it still tastes exactly the same. I don’t know how they do it, but I swear that beer still tastes exactly the same as it did. And it’s it’s really weird because, you know, as I’ve got more of a refined palate, you know, this is getting a little bit maybe a little bit geeky, but I can tell the difference between Rainier beer and a lot of other beers of that ilk. Like if you give me a PBR or a Keystone or any other budget beer, I’m gonna know that it’s not Rainier. And when I get a Rainier I’ll know it because Rainier actually to me tastes like it it borderlines almost on like tasting like a cream ale, which is just bizarre. But it really does. It doesn’t taste like all of those other budget beers.

Kendall Jones [00:30:34]:

It has its own unique thing. So I’m I’m I can’t really say that I’m still a fan of Rainier beer. I mean, I’m actually I’m a fan of the brand. I love what they mean. I love their connection to Seattle. There was there was some, you know, there was some weird hope or dream that something would happen with Rainier Beer coming back to Seattle somehow. And it’s like I was all in. I thought that would be so cool.

Kendall Jones [00:30:56]:

I mean it’s this historic brand that grew up that the the city grew up around Rainier Beer. Rainier Beer was, you you know, was absolutely ubiquitous in this town. And, you know, it was it was Manny’s Pale Ale before there was Manny’s Pale Ale. It was everywhere in this town, you know, and every my dad used to tell me that he would when he would when he would visit another town like he went to Portland a lot for his job and he said he would drive around until he saw a Rainier sign in the window because back in those days that’s the way taverns pretty much ran is, you know, they had a sign the the the neon they had in the window was the beer that they had on tap. They didn’t you wouldn’t go into a bar and find out that they had Rainier and Olympia on tap. You you went into a Rainier bar or an Olympia bar. Now this is way before my time and, I can’t even imagine that now. But, you know, he’s like, yeah, I drive around town till I saw the red r in a window, and I knew that was the tavern I was gonna go to.

Scott Cowan [00:31:50]:

There are

Kendall Jones [00:31:51]:

actually I remember, I kinda I looking back, I do kind of remember that that, you know, it always seemed like, you know, taverns, bars would have just, like, one sign. Mhmm. You know, which but whatever. That’s a long, long time ago.

Scott Cowan [00:32:04]:

Their advertising, their marketing was so captivating.

Kendall Jones [00:32:11]:

Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:32:11]:

The the advertising agency that they hired, the, you know, from, you know, with Mickey Rooney and all of the

Kendall Jones [00:32:18]:

Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:32:19]:

All of the

Kendall Jones [00:32:19]:

Heckler. It was Terry Terry Heckler and Associates, I think, was their name. Beer movie

Scott Cowan [00:32:24]:

that the guys at Tacoma put together from the

Kendall Jones [00:32:27]:

You know what? I haven’t seen that yet, which is really, really ridiculous.

Scott Cowan [00:32:30]:

You need to it’s they did a really nice job with it. They they really they really did. And, I’m not a fan of the band of of the beer at all. I just I never even when I was under the age and I my parents weren’t as cool as yours. You know, my friends at all, that’s what they would obtain.

Kendall Jones [00:32:48]:

Well, I was I should preface it. I should let make my my parents were very cool people, but they were very cool to me. I was the youngest of 5, 5 baby boomers. Right? So they looked at me when I came along, and I was I was at the very, very, very end of the bay I was barely a baby boomer at all. I was a baby boomer by 1 month. But Oh, wow. Okay. They looked at me and just went, you’re gonna

Scott Cowan [00:33:09]:

be fine.

Kendall Jones [00:33:09]:

Yeah. Yeah. After what my sisters and my brother put them through, especially my my elder sisters had, you know, they my my sisters grew up in the sixties and in the went through the early seventies and stuff and they’re like, you know, they were one of my sisters was particularly was, you know, put them through a lot, shall we say. I’m a great person and ended up everything ended up fine, but I think after after watching everything turn out fine with my my, you know, my crazy my crazy older sisters, my parents were like, we’re not we don’t even need to pay attention to you. You’re gonna be fine. They never listened to anything we told them to do, so why should we even bother telling you anything to do?

Scott Cowan [00:33:44]:

No. The the the branding though that that that company had was just it was the brand of Seattle. It was the brand of the northwest there in the mid seventies, you know, in early eighties, even if you weren’t a beer drinker. I remember going to school and talking about the new ad that we just saw. You know? Right. My grandparents would talk about the ad. You know, they’d like to do. Did you see the motorcycle ad? You know, all these things.

Scott Cowan [00:34:11]:

So it was really

Kendall Jones [00:34:13]:

I remember that too. When we were kids, like, before I even cared anything about beer, I thought their commercials were the best. Yeah. And it’s like, I never understood exactly why these guys were chasing these stupid bottles around through the woods and stuff. But I thought they were funny. And I thought they were great.

Scott Cowan [00:34:26]:

Right. And

Kendall Jones [00:34:27]:

then And, yeah, the the motorcycle commercials, like, that’s that’s, like, that might be, like, one of the best television commercials ever made.

Scott Cowan [00:34:33]:

Absolutely. And, you know, if you look at it, I mean, Anheuser Busch stole a lot of those ideas for the for the Budweiser and Bud Light Ads, you know, in the mid eighties. So anyway, as, as we’re recording this in January of 20, 20. Approximately how many breweries are there?

Kendall Jones [00:34:54]:

25, buddy. 25. You you did it. You slipped. Right.

Scott Cowan [00:34:58]:

I did it. January 2025.

Kendall Jones [00:35:01]:

Oh, my god. Don’t I wish it was 2024 again? Oh, jeez.

Scott Cowan [00:35:05]:

About how many breweries are there in Washington state these days?

Kendall Jones [00:35:10]:

Well, what’s the number? 400. Let’s just call it that.

Scott Cowan [00:35:14]:

There’s 400? I mean, it’s,

Kendall Jones [00:35:18]:

it it there’s so many I mean, let’s just there is a number. It’s the number is actually like 430 or 425 or something, but so many of those breweries are just like really really small basement operations. You know, people have licenses that only make like one batch of beer a year Okay. Things like that. So I mean, honestly, in terms of, like, operating breweries that you can probably drink that you can actually get their beer if you you know, a lot of you’d have to try Mhmm. To get their beer. But, you know, maybe 350, 325. I mean, it’s still a remarkable number.

Scott Cowan [00:35:49]:

That’s a large number. Out of those, let’s just say 350, you know, the the ones that are producing more than a batch a year type thing. Who’s the largest brewer right now in Washington state?

Kendall Jones [00:36:01]:

Georgetown.

Scott Cowan [00:36:01]:

Georgetown’s the largest.

Kendall Jones [00:36:02]:

Georgetown Georgetown Brewing is now by far the largest brewery. They’re still on it. If you compare to like nationally, some of the bigger national craft beers there, they’re they’re they are the largest in Washington by, you know, I don’t know by, I don’t wanna say a long shot by by by a good margin. They’re the largest in Washington, and they’re probably gonna rank in the top 12 or 15 in the nation for 20 24 production numbers, which is pretty remarkable. And I’d I’d love to talk some more about that because there’s something that’s really remarkable about that number. Alright. You talked about Rayonier being like the ubiquitous beer around here. Today it’s Bodhi Safa, Bodhi IPA.

Kendall Jones [00:36:46]:

I’ve just recently had a friend of mine say, my wife texts me from the store and says, you want me to pick up a 6 pack of the orange beer? And she doesn’t mean orange as in flavor, it comes in the orange can. People out there right now listening are probably very familiar with bode sci fi IPA. It’s it is the most prolific IPA in Washington, and there’s the thing about it is what has happened with Bodhisattva and what Georgetown has done I mean, for Georgetown, they’re the largest brewery in the state. They’re also one of the very best. They they do everything right. They are so good for the community. There’s you can’t say a bad thing about Georgetown brewing. They’re such good people, and they do such good beer, and it’s away from away from the manis and the the bodhisattva and the things that everybody knows.

Kendall Jones [00:37:36]:

Go to their taproom. They’re gonna have a whole bunch of stuff on tap that’s experimental that you’ve never had before, you never heard of before. It’s a great brewery. Great great great brewery. I can’t say enough about them, but what what they’ve done with Bodhi Safa is just really remarkable. They so I said that they’re probably like in the let’s just say let’s just for the sake of argument say they’re number 12

Scott Cowan [00:37:55]:

Right.

Kendall Jones [00:37:56]:

In the nation. Well, the number 12 brewery in

Scott Cowan [00:37:59]:

the

Kendall Jones [00:37:59]:

nation, I’m gonna guess that about 50% of their production is bodhisattva. So think about that for a second. Oh. That means that means that bodhisattva might be one of the most popular broadly consumed craft beers in America. Wow. I have to I’d have to do some research on that, but I’m just like, you know, sure there’s things like Sierra Nevada Pale Ale that are in every 711 from sea to shining sea and things like that. But, you know, Sierra Nevada, Boston Brewing Company, some of those they’re they’re craft breweries too, but they’re exponentially larger than any of the other breweries we’re talking about. There’s, like, the top 3 or 4 breweries and craft breweries in America, and then everybody else is just, like, exponentially smaller than them.

Kendall Jones [00:38:47]:

And Georgetown fits into that. So it’s just it’s remarkable how widespread and ubiquitous bodhisattva IPA has become. And it’s not by accident and it’s not because of marketing or district I mean distribution of course has something to do with it, but you don’t become fat without the beer being that good.

Scott Cowan [00:39:06]:

Right.

Kendall Jones [00:39:06]:

And I it’s not it might sound kind of weird to have a hardcore beer nerd like me talking like that Bodhisattva is that great, but the thing is is you don’t become what Bodhi has become without being that good. It’s not there’s no tricks to it. You can’t fool people’s palates. I mean, I have friends who drink IPA, you know, like exclusively, and I know that if I go to them and I bring them a can of something from Single Hill in Yakima or from, you know, Varietal in in Sunnyside or one of the other, you know, Stemma brewing up in Bellingham, these other breweries there make exceptionally good IPAs. And I hand them a can of something and it’s and when they take that first sip, I know that whether they realize it or not in their mind they are comparing it to Bodhi. Bodhi is what IPA tastes like around here. And that’s that can’t happen by accident. You know, 10 years ago or something, they won that beer won the gold medal in the IPA category at the Great American Beer Festival, and that’s, like, the most prestigious beer judging competition in North America, if not the world.

Kendall Jones [00:40:24]:

And it’s an a remarkable achievement just to win that medal. And that was probably the last year that it really mattered because at that point, IPA had reached its apex. You know, at that point, there was, like, probably 8,000 breweries in the country, and every brewery in the, you know, made at least 2 or 3 IPAs. So think about how many IPAs there are in the country. How many of them got entered. You know, there was, like, a 150 or a 175 or or more in actually, probably more in the category. I think there’s, like, 235 or something when Bodie won. Yeah.

Kendall Jones [00:40:53]:

And so they they really did produce a beer that was just, like, got everybody’s attention and was that good. And like I say, the fact that it’s become the flavor of IPA Mhmm. Around here, it’s what everything gets compared to. Now I know, like, a lot of the hardcore beer geeks would go, what are you talking about? You’re out of your minds. Like, no. I’m tall I’m talking about normal people.

Scott Cowan [00:41:12]:

Mhmm.

Kendall Jones [00:41:12]:

I’m not talking about us hardcore beer geeks who taste everything and analyze everything to death. I’m just talking about normal people. This is what IPA tastes like to them. So if you’re gonna make an IPA, you gotta, you know, recognize that people are gonna compare it to Bodie. And just think about what how remarkable it is to get your beer to that point. It’s really, really impressive. So back to Georgia. I mean, yeah, they’re they’re the largest one in the state, but I mean, it’s just ridiculous to to think that they’re not one of the best as well.

Kendall Jones [00:41:38]:

I mean, it’s it’s remarkable what they’ve done. And they start it started with Manny’s, the way they the way that, you know, Manny himself out there, you know, when they were still really small 20 years ago, Manny himself was out there being the sales guy getting all those taverns and stuff to put his beer on tap and, you know, built the brand that way. And, you know, that it’s just remarkable what Georgetown has done. And we should everybody in the beer community, everybody who’s not even in the beer community, everybody should be proud of what Georgetown has done. They because they’ve done it the right way. They’re super good people. And like I say, they give back to the community so much. They were they did this.

Kendall Jones [00:42:13]:

Okay? A magazine asked me to write a story, like a feel good story about a brewery that was doing some really good philanthropic work. So I said I’m gonna write a story about the Bob’s Brown Ale, which is a beer that Georgetown makes every year and proceeds from it benefit the Ronald McDonald House for for reasons we won’t get into, but it’s a very near and dear cost to the to to them. And I said, I need to know how much money you have earned with this project so far because that’s gonna be part of my story. And they’re like I mean, literally, Manny literally said, no. Don’t don’t tell him that. Just tell him we’ve, you know, we’ve raised a lot of money. You don’t need it’s like, you know, as soon as it gets said, no, you don’t need to because it’s not about us. Right? He’s like, we don’t wanna we don’t wanna make it sound like we’re so cool or anything, you know.

Kendall Jones [00:43:01]:

And I was like, that’s so remarkable because most people would just, honestly, would just love to stand up on on on top of something and say, we’ve earned $2,000,000 for the Ronald McDonald House. Sure. But but Manny’s just like, no, that’s not what it’s about. Just just tell people it’s for a good cause and we’re we’re happy to support the cause, and they don’t need to know they don’t need to know the dollar figure. So there. I just blew it. I just gave you the dollar figure. I don’t know what it is now.

Kendall Jones [00:43:23]:

That was years ago. Wow.

Scott Cowan [00:43:24]:

They still do it every year. Wow.

Kendall Jones [00:43:26]:

Okay. It’s a lot of money. But that’s just one of the charables causes that they support. But all of our breweries support good, terrible causes, but, you know, Georgetown deserves a little bit of an extra shout out for that.

Scott Cowan [00:43:36]:

Alright. In your opinion, the state of the Washington craft beer space, what’s happening? What’s good right now? What’s what are you seeing that’s happening that’s interesting to you?

Kendall Jones [00:43:51]:

It’s it’s tough. You know, the the market has changed a lot. So a lot of breweries are really struggling right now. In the face of those struggles, some breweries are, finding new paths forward, which is encouraging. It’s, unfortunately, it’s taking its toll. We’re losing breweries. Some of the, you know, smaller breweries especially, are having typical, you know, difficult times navigating these these these, troubles. But, you know, I guess what I guess what I’d say is that, you know, the breweries that are, you know, it’s it’s it’s hard to put a blanket statement on that, but, I mean, I I I’d like to say the breweries that are doing a good job are gonna be fine and the ones that aren’t doing a good job are failing.

Kendall Jones [00:44:33]:

That’s not necessarily true. That that would be a blanket statement that is not true. I could say that kind of as a generalization, that would cover about maybe 75% of what’s going on right now. The breweries right now that seem to have really good business plans and, you know, good good business heads on their shoulders seem to be doing okay and seem to be finding a way to move forward and and weather all of this. And I think, unfortunately, it’s not gonna be about weathering. You know, it’s not like this is a storm that’s gonna pass. COVID was a storm that, you know, we hoped would pass. And this is not a storm, this is this is just a change.

Kendall Jones [00:45:10]:

The the upcoming generation, drinks less beer. They they are you don’t have a a culture of beer nerds like you used to. Now now people are coming up and they may drink everything. They may drink craft cocktails as well as, you know, as well as beer, or they may and honestly, the the upcoming generation just drinks less. Whatever they’re drinking, they drink less. So it’s it’s it’s that’s creating some challenges. There are economic challenges in the industry that nobody’s nobody is expecting, unfortunately, nobody’s expecting to go away in the near future. You know, the rising cost of ingredients, the rising rising cost of materials, For all, the the industry is pretty frightened right now about the the cost of aluminum, going up again because we get, you know, the majority of our aluminum that’s used for making aluminum cans comes from Canada.

Scott Cowan [00:46:04]:

Kendall Jones [00:46:04]:

everybody’s worried that the price of that’s gonna go up in, you know, the industry, a lot of the a lot of people in the industry right now, I mean, what I’m hearing is, like, we just we can’t absorb one more thing. We just we just can’t absorb one more thing. So, you know, whatever the next thing is gonna be, you know, it’s gonna be rough. So I think we’re gonna see some significant attrition. This is the in the United States, this year or last year, I should say, 2024 was the 1st year in a long, long time, I mean, I don’t know, maybe 20 years, that we actually saw fewer breweries open than close. Okay. We’re still kind of at about an equilibrium, one opens, one closes. But for a while there, we were at the point where, you know, 3 were opening for every one that was closing.

Kendall Jones [00:46:50]:

But we seem to be on kind of a trending the other way right now which is rough but you know there’s 97 brewery 9,700 breweries in the country that for various reasons that’s kind of an unrealistic unsustainable number. I mean honestly I mean I’m the last person that should say this but do we really need that many breweries? You know so I don’t know it’s unfortunately I don’t think the trend is really positive right now.

Scott Cowan [00:47:18]:

Okay.

Kendall Jones [00:47:19]:

I see I see a lot of breweries that are, you know, I still see breweries that are making really good beer, and I really appreciate the fact that a lot more of our breweries are getting serious about making good lighter beers, like pilsners and Hellas and lighter lagers and things, instead of just focusing entirely on on big strong IPAs. That’s really encouraging. I think that I think that could, that could help because that will, you know, make the product more attractive to a larger audience. That’s something that a lot of people like me in the beer world have been hoping would happen for a long time. It’s like I I thought was great that we were making these big strong IPAs and these beautiful imperial stouts and stuff, but as long as that’s all we’re making, there’s a whole group of people over there that just don’t want that.

Scott Cowan [00:48:03]:

Right.

Kendall Jones [00:48:03]:

So let’s make something that that they want. We can still make our IPAs and our stouts, but let’s make something that everybody wants too, you know. So, that’s encouraging. That’s probably the most encouraging thing right now is it and, you know, the fact that the fact that, like I say, the breweries that are doing good, that seem to have their business act together, seem to be navigating things well.

Scott Cowan [00:48:26]:

Is there anybody in Washington state that’s doing any nonalcoholic beers at the craft level that’s doing that’s that were I don’t wanna say that they’re good. I don’t mean like that, but that are notable, maybe?

Kendall Jones [00:48:37]:

Yes. Okay. Yeah. There’s there’s actually, I’m it’s this is this is fascinating, because 2 years ago, I would have said no. K. There’s even there’s there’s one brewery, 3 magnets brewing has a whole kind of division that they started, that spun off, called self care. And, they did that a few years ago. They did that like a basically during back in COVID times.

Kendall Jones [00:49:00]:

And even then, it took a long time for them to get to get to get to get it together, to where they’re doing it well. Making making nonalcoholic beer is not an easy thing to do, as much as people might wanna think that it’s, you know, it’s not easy to do. It’s not easy to make good nonalcoholic beer. So self care out of Olympia is doing a really, really good job these days. It took I’ve, you know, I don’t mean to offend anybody down there in Olympia, but it took them a couple of years to get to where I would say that about them. Okay. But, the beers are good now, and, Fremont Fremont Brewing has a, a non alcoholic beer. Ruben’s just introduced, and Ruben’s will be introducing some more non alcoholic beer and I just had one of theirs, one of their IPAs the other night, and their non alcoholic IPA is really good.

Kendall Jones [00:49:54]:

I mean it’s it’s it’s really tricky because every has there’s not a simple single way of making non alcoholic beer. You know, we all there’s one way to make beer, and this is how we make beer. And it’s a matter of whether you make it well or what what you use in it and you have what to do, but how you make nonalcoholic beer is, tricky. And there’s there’s more than one way, and a lot of people are just now starting to to explore that. Ruben’s has been working on it for like 2 years and it just has just now gotten to the point where they’ve got a product where they’re like willing to put in front of people with their name on it. And, like I say, I drank it and I thought it was really good, but they’re, you know, they have you know, I don’t want to get into the nerdy details of it, but they’re doing it differently. I’ve never heard of anybody doing it quite the way that they’re doing it. And, you know, part of it is, you know, part of it is, experimentation, part of it is the learning curve, part of it is the fact that, you know, 10 years ago nobody was making non alcoholic beer.

Kendall Jones [00:50:57]:

5 years ago nobody was making non alcoholic beer. Now it’s really popular. It’s actually it’s the only in the beer in the world of beer, the beer marketplace, the non alcoholic craft beer is the only segment of the beer industry that’s growing and it’s growing quite a lot and quite fast. So we’re gonna see more non alcoholic beers in the next couple of years. And when I say non alcoholic beers I’m talking about craft. Right. Non alcoholic craft beer and more and more breweries, your local neighborhood brewery, the the small breweries that people love around the state and stuff, they’re gonna you’re gonna start to see them making nonalcoholic beers because people are learning.

Scott Cowan [00:51:39]:

When you said that nonalcoholic beer is the the only craft segment that’s growing, approximately what percentage of the craft industry is the nonalcoholic component now?

Kendall Jones [00:51:52]:

Oh, it’s still really small. I don’t know. I don’t have those numbers right off the top of my head, but, a lot more than it was 2 years ago.

Scott Cowan [00:52:00]:

Well

Kendall Jones [00:52:01]:

It’s not like it’s not like it’s 25% or something. I mean, it’s like 2% or something like that, but, it’s it’s growth.

Scott Cowan [00:52:07]:

It’s a noticeable number though now. It’s not just a

Kendall Jones [00:52:10]:

Yeah. Yes.

Scott Cowan [00:52:11]:

It’s kinda like in the coffee industry, everyone says they want decaf, and yet nobody I don’t wanna say nobody. Making a quality decaf coffee is difficult. It’s expensive, and even the best decafs that I’ve had, just they’re lacking something that I can’t quite put my finger on. The non alcoholic beer that I’ve had is is it Athletic Brewing?

Kendall Jones [00:52:38]:

Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:52:38]:

I’ve I’ve had a couple of theirs, and I was they they were drinkable. I mean, you know, I’m not gonna tell you I thought they were the best beers I’ve ever had, but they I didn’t take a sip and then throw the can away.

Kendall Jones [00:52:50]:

Well, to me, they all to me I mean and everybody’s like I said, even athletic. Athletic’s big. Yeah. But, you know, just so you know, they’re very sizable operation.

Scott Cowan [00:53:00]:

Mhmm.

Kendall Jones [00:53:01]:

And not that that has anything to do with what I’m about to say, but with their beers what I’ve always gotten out of it is a certain they all taste oxidized to me, which is, you know, a beer flavor profile term. It’s a something that we consider a flaw in beers. A flavor that kinda would lean like towards, sort of like a wet cardboard kind of taste in the in in the beer. And what I taste what I taste in a lot of the non alcoholic beers is not like oxidized in that sense but that’s where it takes my brain. My brain goes it there’s kind of an oxidized flavor to it and I think it has to do with the fact that I don’t know exactly how athletic does it but one of the ways one of the more common ways to make an alcohol beer is you basically boil it. So you make beer and then you boil off the alcohol. So now you’ve made beer, you have and you you basically you boil the, you know, you boil the wort, the grains and stuff before before you chill it, ferment it, and everything. Now you’re taking that product instead of putting it in the fridge and drinking it.

Kendall Jones [00:54:03]:

Now you’re taking that product and you’re boiling it, and then you and then you have to pasteurize it because if you don’t pasteurize your non alcoholic beer, it’s probably gonna blow up in the garage, which has happened to me before. They so you have to pasteurize it which once again is boiling it. So a lot of the a lot of the non alcoholic beers have basically they made a beer then they boiled it twice. They put it in a can and boiled it. Not quite like that,

Scott Cowan [00:54:26]:

you know.

Kendall Jones [00:54:27]:

It’s like that’s why it’s so to me it’s not surprising that some of the beers taste like they’ve been sitting around in the trunk of a car in the sun for too long, you know, and then you chilled it and you expected it to taste good, you know, but that but like I said it’s it’s amazing how the strides that these people have made. I mean there’s a beer I drink a, it’s actually a goza which is an interesting style of beer on its own, but self care did a lemon lime goza non alcoholic and it’s so good. I mean it’s like I just I want to drink it like after I work out. It’s like it tastes it kind of tastes like Gatorade. It’s it actually kind of goes down easier than Gatorade,

Scott Cowan [00:55:07]:

but

Kendall Jones [00:55:08]:

it’s it’s got it’s kind of salty and it’s Gose is a very particular style of beer, a little bit sour, has a little bit of a salty component to it and, you know so I mean it’s like if you can get if you can stop thinking about like I guess what I what I’m having what I’m adjusting to is that I can’t expect my non alcoholic IPA to taste exactly like it’s an an IPA. It’s gonna taste like a non alcoholic IPA. The alcohol is part of the flavor. So if you take the alcohol away something changes about the flavor.

Scott Cowan [00:55:41]:

Alright. That’s my opinion anyway, so.

Kendall Jones [00:55:41]:

Scott Cowan [00:55:44]:

anyway. So So when I was on your blog, I saw an article on your top articles of 2024 that were Mhmm. Popular. And I had a couple of questions, and my notes are scribbled in my handwriting, and I can’t read them. But there is a the old FX Macquarie’s location is

Kendall Jones [00:56:05]:

going Right.

Scott Cowan [00:56:07]:

Is that still on track?

Kendall Jones [00:56:09]:

I I haven’t heard anything about it since they made that original announcement. So I, you know, I don’t know. They’ve they made a lot of noise when they first made that announcement, and then I haven’t even been by there to see if there’s any construction going on or anything. Yeah. So

Scott Cowan [00:56:23]:

Alright. That was interesting to me though. To me, that’s an interesting concept that tanks versus,

Kendall Jones [00:56:30]:

it’s, you know, it’s it’s a it spurred a lot of heated debate and a lot of heated conversation on when I posted that on Facebook, when I shared it around on Facebook, you know, forum where people could actually comment. Some people took exception to this idea that the tank bar was something new, but, you know, people oftentimes, you know, they know what they know and they and what and what they know they think is everything. But what what these tank bars are doing is different. I mean, a lot of brew pubs a lot of brew pubs have they have tanks that they they instead of putting the beer into kegs or cans or whatever, they put the beer into these big serving tanks then the beer comes out of the serving tanks out to the to the tap at the bar. But like you might have seen the pictures that I had of the the tank bar that I went to in London Right. Where it’s like no, this is coming right out the side of the tank. And they are specially designed tanks that are made for this purpose. And part of it is, yeah, part of it is gimmicky.

Kendall Jones [00:57:28]:

It’s the look of the thing. There’s no there’s no getting around that. But, you know, craft beer these days maybe needs a gimmick or 2.

Scott Cowan [00:57:38]:

Kendall Jones [00:57:39]:

We may maybe we need something silly to get people excited. Like, there was a time I remember when I was younger and I the first time I went into a brew pub, and it’s like, wait. What? This is a pub that they actually make their own beer? What are you talking about? I gotta get my friends to come up here. They got it. They’re not it was in Canada. I’m like, I’m gonna start bringing my friends up here on the weekend. They’re not gonna believe this. They make their own beer right here.

Kendall Jones [00:57:59]:

There was a time when that was a shtick.

Scott Cowan [00:58:00]:

Right.

Kendall Jones [00:58:01]:

You know? So I I think it’s I think it’s great. And I know that the one that I went to in London was fabulous, and the beers were just absolutely outstanding. And were they outstanding because they they were being served fresh that particular way? I don’t know. Maybe that brewery just makes really, really good beer regardless. But, yeah. That that story got a created a lot of, a lot of people took exception to the idea of me using terms like the first tank bar. Okay. And there’s all there’s it’s a it’s a deep subject.

Kendall Jones [00:58:34]:

As I learned when I posted it, there’s a lot of people who have different opinions about what that concept is all about.

Scott Cowan [00:58:41]:

Okay. And, actually, the the other topic I wanna discuss with you is the article you just published as of today, which is called Fresh Beer Happy Brewery, the importance of buying beer direct.

Kendall Jones [00:58:52]:

Yep.

Scott Cowan [00:58:53]:

And there’s a picture of a of a box from 7 seas. And in the corner, I I caught the Heidelberg logo, which I

Kendall Jones [00:59:02]:

was I

Scott Cowan [00:59:02]:

was laughing at. Is 7 who’s doing Heidelberg these days?

Kendall Jones [00:59:07]:

7 seas.

Scott Cowan [00:59:08]:

7 seas is. Okay.

Kendall Jones [00:59:09]:

Well, when 7 seas, you know, where their their location, their big brewery and taproom in Tacoma, downtown Tacoma, in the aptly named Brewery District of Tacoma, which they they are in the building that was like the packaging facility for Heidelberg back in the day, you know, and their building that they’re in is huge, right now. I mean it’s 7 Seas. The building is bigger than they need and it’s darn near an entire city block. Wow. But back in the day Heidelberg took up like 4 or 5 city blocks there and they moved in there and you know there was a lot of kind of artifacts and historic you know, there’s a lot of they were they were brewing in a context. They knew that they were in the Heidel the old Heidelberg you know, they’re on Heidelberg’s turf.

Scott Cowan [00:59:57]:

Mhmm.

Kendall Jones [00:59:58]:

And at one point, I mean, I love the dudes at 7 Seas. They’ve got the best attitude. They were just like, you know, hey, what the hell? Why don’t we make Heidelberg? And it’s like, well, you know, I’m not I’m not telling any I’m not telling you any secrets. I’m not telling you anything that I haven’t written. At some point, they had to contact Pabst because Pabst is has bought a lot of these old historic brands. Alright. Not necessarily to make the beer, but just to own the brand. And Heidelberg was one of theirs, you know.

Kendall Jones [01:00:27]:

So they contacted they sent a letter to, Pabst and said, here’s our story. We’re in the old Heidelberg building. We would love to make a new version of Heidelberg and use all of the logoing and stuff. And, you know, could we talk to you guys about that? Crickets. So they sent another letter, and then they went to the end crickets. And then they went to their lawyers and said, look, we’ve sent them 2 letters. We’ve asked them twice. We’ve told them that we wanna do this twice, and they haven’t even responded.

Kendall Jones [01:00:54]:

So they went ahead and did it.

Scott Cowan [01:00:56]:

It have So

Kendall Jones [01:00:57]:

they went ahead and did it.

Scott Cowan [01:00:58]:

Has Pabst ever responded now?

Kendall Jones [01:01:00]:

No. I don’t think Paps cares. I don’t think I mean, honestly, I don’t I think Heidelberg was just one of dozens of brands that they have in a filing cabinet over there someplace that they they really don’t care about, and they probably didn’t really see any value in it. But you know, 7 seas I I describe them I mean I love that about about them having kind of a ask for forgiveness not permission kind of attitude. They they did ask for permission on this one though. Right. But anyway, yeah, it’s it that was really fun when they when they reintroduced Heidelberg. That was so cool.

Kendall Jones [01:01:31]:

I was so stoked about that and I actually like the beer. It’s a I you know, I don’t remember what Heidelberg tasted like back in this, you know, when there was such a thing as Heidelberg. I don’t know what it tasted like, but I promise you this doesn’t taste anything like it.

Scott Cowan [01:01:44]:

Okay.

Kendall Jones [01:01:45]:

It’s a it’s an entirely new beer. It’s probably made with ingredients that they didn’t have access to back in the day. So it’s it’s just a good light lager that’s branded as Heidelberg, which I think is just brilliant. And the story behind it, I think, is great that they’re in the high the old Heidelberg building and stuff. It’s just really cool.

Scott Cowan [01:02:02]:

Alright. So your headline or the secondary headline says, say it with me. Never leave a brewery tap room empty handed. Yeah. So I don’t want, I want people to read the article. So I don’t want you to like give it away here. So people go read the article, go visit his website, do all that stuff. But what is, why is that so important for the craft beer industry?

Kendall Jones [01:02:23]:

Well, breweries operate on a really small margin, especially when you start talking about the beer that you’re buying at the grocery store or even the beer that you’re buying on tap at some tavern someplace. They’re, the actual, like, when you buy a 6 pack of beer at the grocery store, the amount of money that that actually and that it that’s gonna be in the brewers brewery’s pocket because of that is really, really, really small. There’s the distribution channels, the distribution chains, the markup at the retail level, all of that stuff gets into account. It ends up being just a tiny, tiny number percentage. Like I said in the article, I don’t wanna get into misquoting numbers and stuff because they’re different for a lot of different people and stuff different breweries and different distributors all that stuff’s all different but trust me it’s really really small if you buy it from the brewery directly when you when you’re checking out at the brewery and you sign in your tab and you turn around and you see a cooler back there full of cans know that that’s where they’re making their most profit on their packaged product. I mean the brewery makes the they’re making you’re doing them the biggest favor by going to the brewery and drinking the beer there and then by buying some beer on the way out the door, that’s gonna help them out a lot too. Because I mean don’t stop buying local beer at the grocery store. Right.

Kendall Jones [01:03:38]:

I’m not suggesting that people do that. I’m just saying that if you’re at a brewery tap room, you know, do do them a favor. Just grab a 6 pack on the way out the door.

Scott Cowan [01:03:47]:

Don’t just have a couple of pints. Grab something to go when you

Kendall Jones [01:03:49]:

Yeah. Take something home with you. Alright. And there’s like I explained in the in the article, there’s there’s there’s benefits to that for the consumer as well as for the brewery. Okay.

Scott Cowan [01:04:00]:

When we talked on the phone, I think the news was, was it no lie?

Kendall Jones [01:04:09]:

Right. In Spokane?

Scott Cowan [01:04:10]:

In Spokane, they had just won an award.

Kendall Jones [01:04:13]:

Yep. Well, they had been, they had won the award some time ago.

Scott Cowan [01:04:17]:

Okay.

Kendall Jones [01:04:18]:

They they won a medal for that beer, for the Wrecking Ball Imperial Stout. They won it. They won the medal some time ago but this was Forbes recognizing them. Forbes Magazine recognizing them that they had they had achieved on an international scale like that because this was not like I mentioned the Great American Beer Festival and how it’s a really important beer competition here in the United States and maybe in North America. A few not many breweries try to to compete on an international level. No lite’s one of the ones that is like they’re not afraid to send their beer to any beer competition in the world and they won a pretty prestigious medal and, that and it Forbes and I’m guessing the people at Forbes drank the beer and liked it. So, yeah, they got a pretty nice honor from Forbes. It was pretty cool.

Scott Cowan [01:05:07]:

I have not had that beer. What do you think of it?

Kendall Jones [01:05:12]:

I love it. It’s, I haven’t had it in quite a while Mhmm. But, it’s it’s a good solid imperial stout. Big strong beer. Lots of dark rich malty, you know, toasty kind of character to it.

Scott Cowan [01:05:25]:

Alright.

Kendall Jones [01:05:27]:

And it’s awesome because when they first when they okay. It’s available in a can, which is not that unusual for a beer of that kind these days. But back when they started canning it a few years ago, it was like the idea that an imperial stout came in anything but a big bottle, you know. That’s that’s what we think of imperial stouts coming in these big fancy bottles. It’s like, no. It’s in a can, which is kinda more appropriate. So, you know, instead of opening a 22 ounce bottle, you open a more reasonable sized can.

Scott Cowan [01:05:56]:

Right. Right. Alright. If I were to show up at your house right now, knock on the door, ring the front doorbell, come into your house.

Kendall Jones [01:06:03]:

Mhmm.

Scott Cowan [01:06:04]:

How How many different beers do you have in your fridge?

Kendall Jones [01:06:07]:

You know, we’re actually loaded up pretty well right now because, like I said, I never leave a brewery empty handed. And my wife and I have been out touring some local breweries. I mean, we’ve been we’ve been out to some events, and we’ve actually gone out and stopped by some breweries. So we probably have, I would say, maybe 8 8 or 10 different kinds of beer on the shelf right now from probably like 6 different breweries.

Scott Cowan [01:06:33]:

Okay.

Kendall Jones [01:06:35]:

But that’s that’s actually even for me that’s kind of unusual. Yeah. They’ve actually that it might be it might be a more robust selection than that even because of how much we’ve been out lately but usually I’ll I mean usually I’ll have 2 or 3 different beers types of beer. I also in it, in the kind of a different context I do have some stuff that’s stashed away in the in the beer cellar. You know things that are big and can handle the aging some stouts and some barley wines and things like that. So I’m not that that’s not the stuff that I would pull out when you walk through the door. I’d probably just, you know, grab you a can of this this Reuben’s brighten up IPA

Scott Cowan [01:07:13]:

Right.

Kendall Jones [01:07:13]:

Because I’ve got some of that laying around. And, or maybe a Heidelberg, you know. Maybe a Heidelberg. If you haven’t had the Heidelberg yet I have.

Scott Cowan [01:07:20]:

No. I it’s

Kendall Jones [01:07:20]:

it is it’s it’s fun. It just feels good to be drinking out of that old can, you know, that a can with that old logo on it.

Scott Cowan [01:07:26]:

So what’s your wife drinking these days? What is she like?

Kendall Jones [01:07:29]:

She’s big into she’s really happy about the changes. She likes she likes pilsners.

Scott Cowan [01:07:34]:

Okay.

Kendall Jones [01:07:34]:

And lighter lagers, hell less lagers, and things like that. So she’s been really happy about the the way the industry has been shifting. Okay. She likes IPAs too but she doesn’t, you know, IPAs and pale ales and stuff. She tends to like she tends to like the lower ABV stuff so IPAs are, you know, and neither us are really big fans of the Hazeys. Hasn’t hazy’s has become a lot less popular in recent years, in the last couple of years than they were, say, 4 or 5 years ago.

Scott Cowan [01:08:03]:

So what’s going up? If IPAs you said earlier, the IPAs at Apex. So what’s what’s what are you noticing trending upward?

Kendall Jones [01:08:11]:

The Pilsner.

Scott Cowan [01:08:12]:

Pilsner.

Kendall Jones [01:08:12]:

Yeah. Pilsner has has been on it has been on a, upward trajectory for quite a while now, and, that makes me happy. K. And it’s getting interesting because it’s kinda the same thing as happening with Pilsner as happened with IPA. Because, you know, in the beginning there was IPA, India paleo, and that was it. And then there was Northwest style IPA, Northeast style IPA, Hazy IPA, West Coast IPA. Now it’s cut that same kind of thing is happening with Pilsners a little bit.

Scott Cowan [01:08:44]:

Okay.

Kendall Jones [01:08:44]:

But more so than with the IPA because a lot of times the IPA was just like kind of like for lack of a better way to put it it was just like badge engineering they’re just basically putting a new name on it on it you know how different it was than any of their other beers. I don’t know. Or the previous version of the IPA, but they just call it a West Coast and somehow that’s a new badge to put on it. They would brewers would tell you there is a difference. I understand. I understand that totally. But, you know, with the so far with the pilsners, the way it’s going is like when somebody says this is a West Coast style pilsner, it means it’s a traditional pilsner that’s brewed with West Coast style hops. So, you know, when they say like they have an Italian pilsner, there’s a very specific thing that makes it an Italian pilsner, there’s a very specific thing that they that they would say makes it a Northwest Pilsner.

Kendall Jones [01:09:25]:

Okay. So, but yeah. So the Pilsner has become kind of the new IPA. Alright. And and I predicted it was gonna happen.

Scott Cowan [01:09:34]:

Okay.

Kendall Jones [01:09:35]:

And I I just I I but I predicted it in like 2011. So

Scott Cowan [01:09:39]:

So what are you predicting?

Kendall Jones [01:09:40]:

I was a little bit off. I was I was right in the in the long game, but I was, absolutely wrong at the time.

Scott Cowan [01:09:45]:

So what do you think is gonna happen in 2025? What’s the what’s the the hazy IPA crystal ball say?

Kendall Jones [01:09:54]:

I think we’re gonna see I think we’re gonna see more breweries, making n a beers. That’s gonna be k. A big one. You know? It’s it’s I hope it happens. I mean, because we’ve got to start finding ways to get to turn on the new generation. So that’s one of the things that I hope happens, and I hope they start I hope I hope people keep advancing the technology and I hope breweries keep keep their heads down and stay focused on the quality of the product because I really do believe that, you know, we have to start finding a way to attract the new generation of imbibers. Mhmm. And they are not all, like, you know, my generation you you either you are either the kind of person that drank wine, you drank wine, you drank liquor or you drank beer.

Kendall Jones [01:10:49]:

Mhmm. These days people drink it all. Right. And, you’ve gotta be able to your your brewery’s gonna have your brewery tap room especially is gonna have to be able to appeal to people who don’t necessarily drink beer. It sounds weird, but the brewery tap room is a community gathering space, it’s an activity.

Scott Cowan [01:11:08]:

Mhmm.

Kendall Jones [01:11:08]:

You know, it’s it’s a thing to go do with your friends on a Saturday afternoon that never existed before. Right. You know, up until like 10 years ago that idea kinda didn’t exist. Mhmm. But now it’s a regular thing. It’s like we’re going to the brewery Saturday afternoon, and we’re bringing the kids, and we’re gonna play board games, or whatever the case may be. But if you have a group of 4 people and one of them just flat out doesn’t drink beer, you’re gonna lose all 4 of them if you can’t find a way to appeal to that one. So, you know, hopefully more breweries, that’s a trend that I’m I’m hope I’m gonna see in the future is more breweries, finding ways to attract a broader audience.

Kendall Jones [01:11:48]:

And also I think, and I’m already seeing it, occasions people creating occasions, reasons to come to the brewery not just like come to the brewery because it’s Saturday afternoon. It’s like no come to the brewery it’s Saturday afternoon We’re gonna have jugglers and clowns for the kids. Or, you know, come on Saturday afternoon because we’re gonna have this cool guy here playing his guitar. You know, whatever. People are in or we’re having this special event. It might be a beer event, but we’re having some sort of special event to to, create a reason for people to come to the brewery taproom. And as far as what’s gonna happen on the shelves, I think that, you know, as as lighter style beers get more and more popular, and hopefully that the new generation of beer drinkers, of of alcohol drinkers come to understand that when we talk about craft beer, we’re talking about a locally made product that supports you’re keeping the money really local, it’s, you’re you’re talking about a product that is closer to natural, that is, you know, that is more of their like your maker, you know, your maker culture kind of thing, you know. All the things that they’re into, whether they’re into beer or not, you know.

Kendall Jones [01:12:56]:

They’re into they’re into small produced, locally produced, they’re into maker, you know, the makers the maker scene. So hopefully they’ll they’ll come to understand. And we gotta find ways to bring them into the fold and make them understand those things.

Scott Cowan [01:13:11]:

Alright.

Kendall Jones [01:13:11]:

So it’s, you know, it’s there’s people out there who don’t understand the difference between drinking a beer that was brewed and shipped to Seattle, you know, this brewed in Denver and shipped to Seattle, and drinking a beer that was brewed down the street at their if not and but even then I’m talking, I live in Seattle, but a a brewery in Bellingham is not that far away Right. Compared to drinking beer from a brewery in San Diego. Right. That, you know, and like New Belgium has been New Belgium Brewing in this is a I’d love to say this, but New Belgium Brewing has been, stalwart advocates and they’ve done so much to advance the causes of sustainable brewing practices and just sustainable business practices overall. They’ve done just an absolutely brilliant job, being a brewery that that embraces sustainability. And then they put their beer on wind powered trucks, and the wind blows their beer up to Seattle. So every brewery falls down down is what I’m saying. So that beer gets here on trains and gets here on trucks.

Kendall Jones [01:14:15]:

So no matter what they do at the brewery to be sustainable, that’s a huge component of it. So I really I hope people continue to focus on the idea that, there’s value in drinking local. I don’t mean to dis on anybody who’s, you know, buying beer that comes from another state or whatever, but just something to think about. And, you know, like I say, if you can if you if you go if you if you got a brewery in your neighborhood, you know, let’s support that one.

Scott Cowan [01:14:42]:

Well, then I think what you’re saying

Kendall Jones [01:14:43]:

Unless their beer unless their beer is awful, and then, you know, tell them to straighten up, fly right.

Scott Cowan [01:14:47]:

But if we were in Denver, you’d be saying support Colorado breweries, something it versus having beer shipped in from Seattle. So I get that.

Kendall Jones [01:14:55]:

Well, did I mention that there’s over 9,000 breweries in the country? So wherever you go, there are local breweries to support. So people ask me, like, you know, what’s your favorite IPA? And it’s like, I have no idea. There’s, like, there’s probably 30,000 or 40,000 of them in the United States. I happen I’ve only had, like, 20,000 of them. I have no idea.

Scott Cowan [01:15:14]:

Alright. I I always ask my guests three questions. I’m gonna vary this up a little bit with you today because I’m gonna ask you the same question in 2 different ways. All right.

Kendall Jones [01:15:24]:

Okay. So

Scott Cowan [01:15:24]:

the first question is I’m a coffee guy. Where’s a great place to get coffee. You said you’re in west Seattle. Where’s a great coffee place in west Seattle.

Kendall Jones [01:15:36]:

We have a place up the street, called Real Fine.

Scott Cowan [01:15:40]:

Mhmm.

Kendall Jones [01:15:43]:

And it’s a great place to get coffee. Okay. So I’ll just say that. I also have I know the people. Mhmm. I know the owners. And, their friend you know, they’re I know them

Scott Cowan [01:15:52]:

Right.

Kendall Jones [01:15:53]:

From the neigh from the neighborhood. Okay. Basically, from West Seattle. And they’re good local people. So that’s where I like, here I am. I’m right here here I am telling you go go local.

Scott Cowan [01:16:00]:

Right.

Kendall Jones [01:16:01]:

So so I I I don’t Nothing against Starbucks or any of the the bigger coffee chains. We have some really good ones here around Seattle that are kinda like, you know, your smaller regional kind of chains. Yep. But, no. I’m going with the one that’s right up the street from my house. It’s 4 blocks up the street from my house, and I I know the people who own it, and the coffee is really good.

Scott Cowan [01:16:19]:

What do you what’s your go to coffee drink there?

Kendall Jones [01:16:22]:

I am so I am so complicated when it comes to beer, but when it comes to coffee, I am just a straight up latte guy. Okay. Alright. Just no no nonsense. Alright. I will sometimes, you know, if they’re if I sometimes would prefer 2%

Scott Cowan [01:16:37]:

Mhmm.

Kendall Jones [01:16:37]:

If they have it. Mhmm. But I usually don’t even think to ask.

Scott Cowan [01:16:42]:

Alright.

Kendall Jones [01:16:43]:

I’m just straight up latte.

Scott Cowan [01:16:44]:

Perfect. Alright. So next question. I’m gonna get to the West Seattle area around lunchtime. Where’s a great place to grab lunch?

Kendall Jones [01:16:51]:

Elliott Bay Brewing Company. The the brew pub on California Avenue. They’ve been it’s they’ve got 3 locations around Seattle, but the one in West Seattle is their original location. K. The food is outstanding.

The I know it sounds ridiculous that I’m talking about beer again, but I’m telling you, it’s they, the the service is awesome. The food is great, and, it’s a it’s a great vibe and they’ve been there for I don’t know. They’ve been they’ve been in West Seattle since I’ve been in West Seattle,

Scott Cowan [01:17:18]:

so since

Kendall Jones [01:17:18]:

the late nineties. Okay. Since 97, I think is when they opened. 97. Alright. So they’ve been around for a while.

Scott Cowan [01:17:22]:

So this is And,

Kendall Jones [01:17:23]:

they’ve they’ve retained employees because they’re really good to their people. And like I said, the food’s great. We might I actually might even be going there for dinner tonight. I don’t know.

Scott Cowan [01:17:30]:

Alright. So on that theme, I want you to think now, and I never asked this question. So you’re like testing this question with you, but you’re, you’re having some out of town guests come in. Okay. They’re going to be here. It’s Saturday afternoon and you’re going to go, you want to show them good representation of the Seattle beer scene. Where would you take an out of towner?

Kendall Jones [01:17:56]:

Ballard.

Scott Cowan [01:17:57]:

Kendall Jones [01:17:59]:

The Ballard the Ballard Brewery District. I mean, there’s at least a dozen breweries that are within walking distance of each other.

Scott Cowan [01:18:05]:

Okay.

Kendall Jones [01:18:08]:

I would probably start at Reuben’s Brews, and then walk around the corner to stoop brewing, cross the street to, Urban Family. If somebody especially if somebody’s into sour beers, you know, into that kind of beer, fruited sour beer. I take them to Urban Family for sure, and then I’d go across the street to Obetz and get them a nice, lager around the corner to Wheely Pop.

Then down the street, good. If they want cider, we can go to the Bail Breaker and want yon yonder yonder cidery to joint taproom. I mean, there’s a there’s so many breweries in Ballard, and it’s literally park your car once and you’re you know, how many breweries can you go to in a day?

Well, you know, in Ballard, yeah, you’re you’re gonna park the car once and you can go to a dozen breweries that are all within I mean, when I say walking distance each other, a lot of them are just like, you know, half a block away from each other.

Scott Cowan [01:18:59]:

Alright.

Kendall Jones [01:19:00]:

So Ballard is the place.

Scott Cowan [01:19:02]:

Last question. Or I I kind of prepped you for this, but this is this last question. You have to answer it. You’ve you’ve agreed to play along, so you have to answer it and you have to give us a reason why. It has nothing to do with beer. Okay? So cake or pie?

Kendall Jones [01:19:17]:

Really? Oh, man. Pie.

Scott Cowan [01:19:22]:

Why?

Kendall Jones [01:19:23]:

My god. I can’t believe I said that. But yeah. Got you. You made me think about it. So pie.

Scott Cowan [01:19:27]:

Why? What’s the reasoning?

Kendall Jones [01:19:31]:

Fruit.

Scott Cowan [01:19:32]:

K. So what’s the go to pie? What would you what would you wanna have?

Kendall Jones [01:19:37]:

With my latte, my blunt my bland latte, I’d probably want apple pie.

Scott Cowan [01:19:42]:

Okay.

Kendall Jones [01:19:42]:

Apple pie, I think, is, like, the most perfect thing one of the most perfect things that mankind ever invented.

Scott Cowan [01:19:49]:

Okay. There’s no wrong answers here. It’s just a fun question.

Kendall Jones [01:19:52]:

I like cherry pie too. I just, you know, but apple pie.

Scott Cowan [01:19:56]:

Okay. Growing up, did you grow up in a household with cake or with pie?

Kendall Jones [01:20:03]:

Cake.

Scott Cowan [01:20:04]:

Interesting.

Kendall Jones [01:20:05]:

Yeah. So I asked this We were a cake family.

Scott Cowan [01:20:07]:

I I asked this question, I guess, and I started asking this this growing up question. And most people that pick pie grew up in a household that they had pie as a kid. You’re you’re you’re you’re bucking the trend.

Kendall Jones [01:20:20]:

Yeah. It’s interesting. Yeah. I don’t know. I mean, I guess maybe part of that is that, you know, maybe oh, you know what? Actually, now that you mentioned it, I know where my, pie thing came from. I had a next door neighbor when I was growing up. My next door neighbor, she started a second career as I as I came of age, like as I was in junior high school, say, she started a second career and became a pastry chef. Oh, wow.

Kendall Jones [01:20:45]:

And she actually taught me at one point how to make apple pie. Now you’re making me remember this. So, yeah, Sandy Krieger, my next door neighbor, used to make pie, and her pie was outrageously good. So however good my mom’s cake was or wasn’t, Sandy Krieger’s pie was amazing. So, yeah. Now, thank you for bringing that back up. I owe it all to Sandy.

Scott Cowan [01:21:05]:

There we go. Alright. So we’ll put it in the show notes too, but where should people find you online? Washingtonbeerblog.com,

Kendall Jones [01:21:17]:

and pretty much everywhere else on the socials. I am at beer blog. We have we’re prolific on Facebook. I mean have our that’s probably my largest audience is on Facebook and we’re washing beer blog on Facebook. Easy to find. But on Instagram at beer blog don’t do the platform that shall not be named anymore, but on Blue Sky and, threads, I am at beer blog.

Scott Cowan [01:21:43]:

I’m surprised you were able to get that across the the channels.

Kendall Jones [01:21:48]:

Yeah. As early adopter of pretty much all of them.

Scott Cowan [01:21:50]:

Okay. Yeah. Well, thank you. This has been great for me because I’ve I have I feel like I have a better grasp on the the craft beer scene in Washington state, what’s happening now, and kind of a little bit of the historical thing of it. I love what you’re doing, and I stumbled across this. I’m not sure exactly how I stumbled across this, and, but but at the same time, I was like, how did I miss this before? So that was the the really, you know, the the weird thing. And then I gotta share this story. So if somebody’s listened this far along, they can listen to this last one.

Scott Cowan [01:22:22]:

So I was supposed to call you because I have this that icebreaker call where I get on the phone with him for 15 minutes. Right. And you’re just kind of like, Hey, let’s, this is what the show is like, blah, blah, blah. Make sure, make sure that it’s going to work for everybody. And I was on the phone with Chris Baldwin and Chris is Island Time Coffee. And he’s, he, his coffee company is the official coffee of Explorer Washington state. I love what he’s doing. And his wife went to college with my wife and that’s how I all that.

Scott Cowan [01:22:52]:

Right? So I’m talking to Chris and we’re having this conversation. I go, I gotta go. I got this 4 o’clock call and blah blah blah. And we were it wasn’t wrapping up and that’s fine. And I’m like, but, Chris, I gotta go because I gotta call this guy at 4 o’clock. I don’t know this guy. I gotta call this guy. So I call hang up the phone.

Scott Cowan [01:23:07]:

Call you. We get on the phone. I mentioned this and you go, Chris is one of my best friends.

Kendall Jones [01:23:14]:

Yeah. That was funny. What? Yeah. So, like, while we were talking, I was texting Chris. Go, hey. I was the sorry about stealing them, but, you know, I was the 4 o’clock.

Scott Cowan [01:23:22]:

Yeah. And I called I called Chris afterwards. Yeah. He’s like, yeah. He just texted me. I’m like, oh my god. It’s just, like, such a small world. And he does you know, you’re right.

Scott Cowan [01:23:32]:

His his his graphic design work is is phenomenal. So I gotta go look up 4 on the floor’s logo. I don’t

Kendall Jones [01:23:38]:

know if you’re gonna be able to find it anywhere. I don’t even know if we I don’t know if we still have our Facebook page up or anything.

Scott Cowan [01:23:43]:

Well, I’ll ask Chris. I bet he’s got it somewhere tucked away. He’ll he’ll share it. Yeah. But thank you. And keep keep keep championing the, craft beer industry in Washington.

Kendall Jones [01:23:53]:

Well, thanks for having me. And thank you for helping me with my mission of, promoting the craft beer industry.

Exploring Washington State Podcast( Podcaster )

The Exploring Washington State Podcast is your go-to source for discovering the diverse wonders of the Evergreen State. Whether you’re seeking inspiration for your next adventure, looking to savor local cuisine, or eager to learn about the businesses and artists that call Washington home, this podcast has something for everyone. Join us as we showcase the splendor of Washington State, reminding you that “there is always more to explore!”

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