Zylberschtein’s Delicatessen & Bakery Josh Grunig and a Love of a Great Sandwich.

Pinehurst’s only Jewish Delicatessen and Bakery. Voted best bagel on the block by multiple kids.

That is the bi-line on Zylberschtein’s Instagram page. Owner Josh Grunig joined the show to talk all things food in Seattle. 

Since opening in 2018 Zylberschtein’s has grown a large dedicated clientele  that crave the traditional Jewish Deli foods, hand made bagels, fresh baked bread and much more.

Josh shares with us his journey from a pop up bakery to a deli and now a Kosher restaurant. Both the deli and the sister restaurant Eat at Muriel’s.  Both  Zylberschtein’s and Muriel’s pay tribute to Josh’s family. I especially enjoyed hearing about his grandmother and her fondness for Corona and pizza.

If you are a fan of great sandwiches, bagels or freshly baked breads you will be very hungry after listening to this episode.  Listen in to hear all about Josh and his journey.

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Josh Grunig Zylberschtein’s Deli Episode Transcript

Scott Cowan [00:00:00]:
Welcome back to this episode of the Exploring Washington State podcast. My desk my desk. My desk is here. Welcome to the Exploring Washington State podcast. Here’s your host, Scott Cowen. Alright. Welcome back to this episode of the Exploring Washington State podcast. My guest today who’s being very patient is Josh Josh Grunig. We’re just gonna go with it, Josh. Josh, you were introduced to me through daughter who does our social media outreach, she says, this sounds like a really great deli. Let’s talk to this guy. So I reached out to you. You were kind enough to to circle back to us. Help me out here because the tagline’s Oya. It’s a mouthful. How do we pronounce the name of your deli correctly? It’s Silversteins. And how did you come up with that name?

Josh Grunig [00:01:05]:
So Silverstein, it so my my mom’s last name is Stein, Okay. And our our family name, is or was Silverstein. And so A lot of Jewish families that immigrated from Eastern Europe had very long Polish and German sounding names. And when they when they immigrated into America, their names were shortened. And so it it that’s why there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of Jewish people with the last name Silver. Mhmm. And there’s a ton of steins. And so I’m not necessarily related to all of those people. but you can see how, you know, and maybe I am related. I don’t know. Maybe. So I did I did meet someone on Facebook that lives in New York and and her her last name is Silverstein, and so I’m pretty sure I’m related to her. But — Okay. yeah, so that’s where it came up the name. And I’ve always been really interested in Jewish delis. it’s not something I grew up around. I grew up in the Bay Area. and We, the baria has a large Jewish population, but it’s very reformed. and it doesn’t have the same, like, deli culture as maybe Los Angeles, definitely not like the East Coast, but I’ve always been really interested in. And I’ve and I also just love sandwiches. like, just big meaty sandwiches with with cheese and that kind of thing. And so, I Yeah. I I mean, I’ve I’ve always been interested in this. I was really inspired by the there’s a place in Ann Arbor in Michigan called

Scott Cowan [00:02:55]:
That’s your turn.

Josh Grunig [00:02:57]:
Oh, man. Oh, okay. There’s a place in Ann Arbor called Zingermans, I’ve heard of them. Yeah. Zingermans. Okay. So this is like a world famous place. And what they did was in I think in, like, the early eighties, they opened a Jewish deli. It was like 2 buddies, 2 college buddies who start this deli, and it was wildly popular. And instead of instead of trying to open up a whole bunch of Zingerman’s delis all over the place, they were like, they basically, grew their business with all these other complimentary businesses. So they opened a bakery, they opened a creamery. And and it was, you know, they also had, like, cheese. So then they opened a creamery and you know, so on and so on. And but what they also did was they, they partnered with other passionate people that knew more about that field than they did. So they would, you know, they found someone that was like, a trying to start their own bakery. And they said, hey. We’re gonna start a bakery, and you’re gonna be the primary owner. We’re gonna have a piece of it, and you’re gonna provide the bread for our very busy deli. so I’ve always been interested in that model of growing different businesses that are all complimentary to each other. And, so I I started as a my background’s all in bread and baking. I’ve been a professional baker since

Scott Cowan [00:04:26]:
2006.

Josh Grunig [00:04:27]:
Oh, wow. And I went I went to school for it, and then I worked, I worked all over the Bay Area, And then I moved up to Seattle, and I worked at Grand Central for a year. And then my, my daughter was born, and I took I took some time off And, and then I started doing, pop ups. And I was just doing pastries and, like, scones and a little bit of bread. and that kinda grew into what was standard bakery. And standard bakery was primarily croissants, We did a little bit of bread loaves, but mostly croissants. And then I grew that into a pretty large wholesale business. And what I had been thinking the whole time was Well, I’ve got this I’ve got this wholesale business going. I had a little retail component to it. And I was like, okay, I’m gonna look for another location. and Cowan this Jewish deli that I’ve always been thinking about. And, I, it didn’t exactly work out that way. And, I mean, essentially, essentially, what happens with wholesale is you kinda get you get to this point. You’re trying to get to kind of an economy scale. And then, you start having to make a lot of compromises in either the quality of what you’re doing or what you’re charging and you’re just constantly getting squeezed in all directions. And this was, like, well before COVID. So before anyone even knew what supply chain meant before that was even a word. Right. so so instead of continuing the wholesale, we remodeled the space that we’re in in North Seattle, and we pivoted and became a silver signs. And so now we’re a bakery and a deli. We built out a full kitchen in our space and you know, we’re we’re still really bread heavy. We make a ton of bagels. We do our own rye bread. we do Babka. We do hauling Fridays. all the fresh baked stuff, but then we also smoke our own pastrami. We make chopped liver. We do Cowan ish and we do a ton of chicken soup. Like, kind of a crazy amount of matsubal suit. so, yeah, we we do a lot. Like, even in the summer, people still buy matsubal suit. So okay. so, yeah, I mean, we’ve and now we’ve been in business about 3 years. and, Yeah. It’s great. I

Scott Cowan [00:06:58]:
Well, dare I ask. I mean, you’ve been in business about 3 years and, you know, COVID’s been 2 thirds of that. Yeah. And you use you use the magic word that everybody uses as pivot, but how challenge how challenging was it for you with a with a, you know, a new business. And all of a sudden, foot traffic was gone. Yeah.

Josh Grunig [00:07:21]:
What?

Scott Cowan [00:07:22]:
How’d you do?

Josh Grunig [00:07:24]:
you know, without getting too graphic, but, in those early days, I felt I don’t I I like to say, oh, we threw a bunch of darts and see what hit the board, but, really, we were just throwing a bunch of crap against the wall. k. And so fair enough. I mean, that’s what it would you know, like, looking back on it. Right? Like, we didn’t we had no one knew what was going on. I remember at the beginning, people were like, oh, alright. This will just be a month. Like, oh, we’re just we’re just gonna close down for a month. I remember remember having conversations with people like that. And I remember thinking like, yeah. I don’t know. I don’t know about it being a month. I think this is This is gonna drag out a little bit longer. I don’t think we’re we even have begun to under understand the the scope of what’s happening at the beginning. Right? So, you know, So going back to, like, throwing a lot of darts, and we’ll stay with that analogy instead. okay. So essentially, We we closed our dining room. but we did stay open. You know, a lot of places in Seattle were like, we don’t know what’s going on. were gonna close. And we weren’t really in a position to do that. Like, we weren’t really, we were in a position to say, like, we’re just gonna close our doors for a month and wait this out. And whether or not that was stupidity or luck or or what, but I think that’s one of the hugest things that has really helped us is that we did stay open and that, you know, at the beginning, people were like, I can’t get milk. Gonna be like, alright. Come buy a gallon of milk. Oh, oh, we can’t get yeast. Oh, yeah. We got yeast. And so, like, our pantry stuff, We I remember we were selling, like, 5 or 6 cases of eggs every week, like, of, you know, and we would just wrap them in plastic and sell it, you know, so just like that. Like, we sold flower, and I think people didn’t we weren’t having the issues that people were having at the grocery store. And, you know, it wasn’t that we were, making a ton of money on that stuff, but the fact that we we’re able to say, hey. This is a place to come if you need those things. And what’s I think what’s funny too is I remember all the people like, oh, I’m doing all this home baking. And then after a month, people like, this is a lot of work. It’s kind of a lot of work to to do baked goods and be like, yep. Yeah. Just come on over. Come on down when you’re tired of making your own bagels. It’s a lot of work. So, yeah, so we tried that, and we also started doing home delivery. So we started something called Bagel Club. I think we started that in, like, May of 2020. And so we basically you could buy anything on our menu that would like, besides our actual sandwiches, but you could buy all components. Like, you could buy pastrami by the pound and cheese. And, I mean, mostly bagels, we sold, but we also have a whole pastry side too. So we were selling like cookie dough and cake slices and cheesecake and all this stuff. And so, and you know, the bagel club for me has been the most surprising thing, for COVID because we, it’s more popular than ever. I mean, we it hasn’t slowed down. It’s only gotten more popular. Yeah. And I think I think, you know, when I when I think about It’s like when I think about what is the future of restaurants, I think about what is What is the most convenient thing for the laziest person? I mean, that’s really what’s happening if you think about it. If you boil it down, right, Like, how how lazy? How lazy can I be? Like, you know, you know, I don’t wanna put pants on today. I’m just gonna get my burger delivered. Like, that’s

Scott Cowan [00:11:36]:
that sounds great. You’ve been talking to my son?

Josh Grunig [00:11:39]:
Oh, yeah. He told me all about it. He this

Scott Cowan [00:11:44]:
I was good kid. Don’t get me wrong. Good kid. Tight. And he’s he he works for me on the on on on my professional side. Right? Yeah. And he he comes into the he comes into the office one day and he goes, yeah, I’m gonna order lunch. where are you ordering from? I wanna have McDonald’s delivered. Yeah. I’m like I think I think my rule of thumb is I don’t want somebody to deliver food to me that I can go in my car to get and not get out. Yeah. Yeah. I can I can throw. I can drive to McDonald’s. Try through the drive through. Come out. I don’t have to pay that. Let me deliver it to me. But laziness, you yeah. Anyway, but tease my son. But — Yeah. I mean, not to alright. I mean, not not to make a,

Josh Grunig [00:12:27]:
not to make fun of lazy people. Okay? They’re entitled to their laziness. But — Absolutely. I mean, I, you know, I have conversations with people. I have I talked to people within the food industry, and there’s always like, what’s gonna be the next thing? And it’s like, the things that have happened over over the last 3, 2 years are kind of just trends that have been accelerated that have that have been happening slowly. Mhmm. Like third party delivery, online ordering, QR codes, all that stuff. Like, that stuff has been kind of creeping in, and it got a, like, out of necessity. It got accelerated really quickly. And so Yeah. So as as I was joking about how I do a five thousand year old craft, at the same time, you know, I I do try to embrace technology as much as I can in the sense of like, you know, we we try to find places. We try to find places where, it’s important to connect with a customer at certain junctures and touch points, but you but if you can speed something up or make something convenient and easy for someone and do it in a way that is easy for an eighty year old to do because if it’s not simple enough for an eighty year old or a five year old, someone else most people are gonna get frustrated and give up and be like, that’s not even worth it. You know? So

Scott Cowan [00:13:58]:
Yeah. So so Bagel Club is still it’s it’s growing still.

Josh Grunig [00:14:04]:
Yeah. I mean, we had we probably had, like, five people a week. And — Oh, okay. Yeah. I really thought, oh, after a year, everyone’s gonna go back to work. But, you know, one of the one of the things that with Bagel Club. And and we get this complaint a fair amount, which, which is, well, I came at 2 o’clock in the afternoon, and we close at 3. Mhmm. And we wanna be sold out at 2 o’clock. Like, we don’t want any product left over at 2 o’clock at at that part of the day as far as the the fresh baked goods go. You should be able to get a hot sandwich until we close at 3 o’clock. But, fresh bagels, fresh loads of bread, all that stuff. We want all that sold out. So people come at 2 o’clock. They’re like, well, I just want a dozen bagels. And I was like, okay. Well, you gotta come earlier. And they’re like, well, I gotta wait in line for them. I’m like, oh, Well, Cowan Bagel Club. We’ll bring it to your house. And you’d be surprised how many people that we’ve got to sign up that way because they’re just like, Oh, well, you wait. You’re gonna bring it to my house. It’s like, yeah. So, you know, that kind of stuff where you just, like, Oh, you feeling lazy? It’s like your newspaper. You’re right? Like, I don’t need to walk down the block to the Walgreens to get my newspaper. Oh, they’ll bring it to my door. It’s like the same same as that. So and you live you live on the east side. Right? We’re in Winatchee. Oh, you’re in 1 yeah. So because I could see how they have Smith Brothers. So they have, like, a dairy delivery on the east side like that.

Scott Cowan [00:15:30]:
Not that I’m aware of, but I haven’t paid a 10. We moved over here in 2017, and I, I don’t I haven’t paid it. I’m sure we do. Yeah. I just haven’t paid attention to it. But, like, yeah, Smith Brothers or, yeah. Yeah. People have always you’re right. People have always kind of paid for that. you know, convenience.

Josh Grunig [00:15:49]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And so and so I think I’ve, you know, in a lot of ways, I feel like I’ve embrace those things more than other places have. And we also, I think Jewish deli food is is very, it’s simple. It’s soul food. It’s, it’s not fine dining. and it it lends itself to to go food. Like, typically, it lends itself to taking it to go. And so food that has lent itself to to go food has has fared pretty well during COVID. So — Okay.

Scott Cowan [00:16:30]:
Did you have any restaurant training when you Cowan the deli other than being a baker?

Josh Grunig [00:16:36]:
sure.

Scott Cowan [00:16:37]:
Sure. Sure.

Josh Grunig [00:16:39]:
Somehow I don’t believe this. Well, I worked when I was in the Bay Area, I worked at a a it was a bakery and restaurant. Okay. And it was part of a pretty big restaurant group. And so, I definitely had and I’ve had lots of experience being around chefs being around food culture, but as far as, like, actually being a line cook, no, I have not done that. And so, yeah, I mean, some of the Some of the cooking stuff has definitely been a steep learning curve for sure. And I think what’s interesting about that too is like, and I I say this a lot at the new location where I’m just like, we don’t know what we don’t know. Like, we, you know, like, we we could spend all this time being like, I can’t believe it took us 2 months to figure that out. And it’s like, Yeah. But we didn’t know that until we got in there and started doing it. We had no idea what the problems are gonna be until you start. You know? So

Scott Cowan [00:17:38]:
And and and in some cases, if you knew what the problems would be, you probably wouldn’t do it. They’re like, yeah. No. I don’t wanna do it. Yeah. I mean, I don’t know. Too much work.

Josh Grunig [00:17:47]:
Well, I yeah. And I mean, you know, I think I think that there is definitely, I I think that’s another thing that has definitely happened during COVID where people that, people like young people that I don’t wanna say that they don’t wanna work hard, but they don’t want to, like, start at nothing and work their way up. and climb a ladder and just be like a dishwasher for a while. Like, I feel like that that has just kind of gone away where people that go to culinary school are like, oh, I’m a chef now. So I should own my own restaurant. instead of like, oh, I should go work under all these great people and actually make a bunch of mistakes on other people’s dime and learn how to do this. or or a, oh, no. I’m sorry. I mean, learn all the things. Sorry. Mhmm. I’ve never done that. but,

Scott Cowan [00:18:50]:
but at the same time, I’m of the opinion that if somebody else is quote, unquote footing the bill, that it doesn’t encourage people to take risks a little bit more than if it’s to and I don’t mean this in a in a bad way. I’m just saying is if — Yeah. — if you were working for I’m just gonna pick Let’s say Tom Douglas, just arbitrary. There’s a name that people listen to the show would have heard of. If you were working for Tom Douglas, you knew that your paycheck next Friday was coming in because of his his restaurant enterprises. You might be willing to take a chance on something versus if you did it on your own and next Friday came and there wasn’t any money in the in the cash register, we’re gonna get paid. So it Cowan go both ways. You you might speed up that learning curve on somebody else’s dime, if you will, and they’re set up to absorb that, and they get the benefits of your creativity and your your effort.

Josh Grunig [00:19:50]:
I would I would counter with that saying, that Most successful restaurants operate on consistency. Mhmm. And which means that they are not they are they are pretty risk averse in that sense. Okay. And so they’re they are like, hey. Go peel those £200 of carrots. like, hey. We need this salmon fillet grilled the exact same way for 1000 times. And so and I I mean, I hear what you’re saying, but I I also think that, that’s definitely a kitchen by kitchen basis. It’s really kind of the culture of that particular kitchen and kind of how much ego is in there in the sense of like sometimes, there’s only one good idea and it’s the chef’s idea. Mhmm. And there’s not really room for anyone else. to to be thinking other than just, like, making. And so, and then, I mean, because this kinda reminds me of, on the flip side of that being, like, the pop ups. And there’s been a ton of pop ups around Seattle that all these restaurant pops that have happened during COVID because bunch of people got unemployment, but, like, a bunch of people were out of work. Mhmm. And they’re like, hey. I’ve had this idea for this pop up. And pop ups are generally kind of a low barrier to entry in the sense of, like, if you have a tent and and a 2 burner, like, you can kinda make. And especially during COVID, the health department was, like, nowhere to be found. So you could kinda do whatever you wanted. Like, I saw some some, uh-uh, questionable sanitary practices.

Scott Cowan [00:21:42]:
Okay.

Josh Grunig [00:21:43]:
I’ll leave it at that. I’m not gonna name names or anything. but fire hazards, those kind of things. But — Okay. So those people are high risk takers. I would describe it. But they also I mean, you know, I would say typically people are, I don’t know. It it’s interesting. Like, how how you’re the idea of what you’re saying too because there are there are restaurants that, you know, they change their menu every week. or every month. They have a completely new menu every month. And you’ve got, like, a chef de cuisine who’s like, let’s try it. You know, so there are there are places that exist like that. but I would say those probably operate more in fine dining settings. And those kind of settings have definitely come more few and far between during COVID because those those type of establishments operate on ambiance. And you’re, I mean, you’re paying for the dining area. You’re paying for how nice those glasses are. All of those things, and none of that translates into Go Food. Right. And so and and now we’re seeing this huge swing back towards, like, people really do want to find on a experience is they really do wanna sit in a fancy place. They actually wanna wear trousers. Like, we’ve I think everyone’s gotten through that period now where we’re like, I it’s funny, like, I really make an effort, to not go outside wearing sweat pants. Like, I have to consciously Like, and I walk I walk my daughter to school some days, and it’s like two Blocks from our house. And I’m like, put some jeans on. It’ll just take a minute. Like and that’s, you know, I’m not, I’m not shooting shade on anyone. It, like, you you because now there’s, like, all the at leisure wear. So you can you could spend $400 and still be wearing sweat pants. Right. But, you know, they’re nice sweat pants. They’re nice sweat pants. great. Oh my gosh. I guess that that

Scott Cowan [00:23:44]:
I mean, that’s for another podcast, but — Yeah. That’s that’s a that’s that’s a that’s a rabbit hole this is a I’m gonna avoid that one today with you. Yeah. That’s like a dad that’s like a dad bod podcast.

Josh Grunig [00:23:53]:
Yeah. Oh, jeez. I’m gonna start that. It sounds really smelly.

Scott Cowan [00:24:00]:
Yeah. So I’m gonna ask I’m gonna I’m gonna put you on the spot. I’m gonna ask you an impossible question. Yeah. If you could only have one sandwich for the rest of your life. Yeah.

Josh Grunig [00:24:12]:
What would it be? Well, the first thing that pops to mind is a shrimp po boy. That that comes to mind, which is actually what I had for lunch today. Alright. because there’s, like, a fish and chips place down at Rainier. Shout out to Emerald City Fish And Chips — Okay. — with the very delicious shrimp po boy.

Scott Cowan [00:24:37]:
Okay. I assure why Assurant poboy? What what is it? What what is it about that sandwich that I mean, I love I love fried shrimp,

Josh Grunig [00:24:49]:
like breaded and fried. I mean, there’s just it’s just delicious. Although I don’t think I could eat that every day. That’s like a once once a month thing because I feel like this as I’m sitting here talking to you about it, my my, maybe it’s just from talking about it, but, like, my tummies, like, Really? Is that really what you wanna eat every day? That’s my answer. Yeah. I’m I’m okay. So so maybe not that. My body’s speaking up on that one. k. Although, or or, I mean, you have to contextualize this a little bit. Is this a sandwich with no consequences?

Scott Cowan [00:25:27]:
Yeah. Well, since this is the only sandwich you’re gonna be able to have for the rest of your life, yes, sir. There can be no no no no dietary consequences.

Josh Grunig [00:25:35]:
Well, okay. I mean, that changes the nature of the question. Sorry. There’s like a there. Sorry. For some reason, my daughter’s iPad game decided to light up for no reason. I also there’s also, And there’s also, well, the sandwich we make, excuse me, that was awful. So we do a sandwich called the Skokie and Skokie. And it’s Cowan beef with melted Swiss and coleslaw. Mhmm. And that’s super good super good sandwich. I really enjoy that. And I eat that once in a great while too. we also do what we call the Rachael which is the Skokie with with turkey instead of with Cowan beef. Okay. So I don’t know about I mean, I think I would eat that a lot. I don’t know. Things with bacon. I do love bacon. Yeah. There’s some there’s just so many so many sandwiches. I mean, there’s also, like, it’s in Seattle. There’s, tats and they do they do the tats strummy, which is, like, pastrami sandwich with coleslaw. And they, like, do super thin sliced pastrami. We do, like, thick cuts style. Ours a little different, but they’re they do like a Hoagie roll, which is really good. I like I would probably eat that every day. man.

Scott Cowan [00:27:08]:
Yeah.

Josh Grunig [00:27:09]:
That’s an impossible question. I know. Yeah. I mean, you know, it’s I mean, the way I feel about that is, like, the way I feel when someone’s like, what’s your favorite thing? Right? And I I had a whole conversation with someone about to this the other day about how, like, it that is so subjective to the moment you ask it. Right. Like, I don’t I don’t live in a world where, like, I’m only ever gonna have one thing. Like, what am I in the mood for? What did I eat earlier? Am I hungry? Am I, like, am I am I angry? Am I hangry? Am I, like, in what state am I in? And, like, how how how fit am I for the consequences of what I’m about to eat? after those things, how much am I thinking about the after of, like, like, we went to barbecue for my birthday and, and I ate, like, a whole rack of ribs. which I really enjoy doing, like, once a year because I can do it, but then, like, later on, I’m like, I wish I hadn’t done that. So — Right. Right. my gosh. Yes. So, like, a mix rib. what about a mix rib sandwich? I actually, I I have to admit I’ve never had a mix rib sandwich, but I don’t know that I ever had. I, for some reason, and it’s

Scott Cowan [00:28:24]:
the story is I mean, I can make the story up because it’s mine, but I going back to what I was telling you before, which about the the Bourdain, when I was chauffeur Inc, you know, I spent a lot of time behind the wheel of a car. And so I would eat a lot of food that was served to me through the window of that car. And McDonald’s was I could go to McDonald’s. I could order something, eat it next time I saw the signs, I’d be hungry again. Yeah. And and it was like, this is it’s not good. but I don’t wanna not eat it. Yeah. I’m just gonna stop, and I haven’t eaten at a McDonald’s in over 12 years. But that doesn’t mean I haven’t eaten in every other fast food place that serves food through a window, but I just don’t do McDonald’s. That’s just, you know, and nothing against the company. because I back in the day, I really liked their egg mcmuffins.

Josh Grunig [00:29:24]:
Yeah. I’ll still eat it. That’s, like, kind of the only thing for McDonald’s. But I can remember the last time I had that was, like, 2 summers ago because I went I think it was, like, I don’t think it was Mother’s Day. I think it was, like, 4th July, but I went to the McDonald’s on my way to work. And I bought, like, 20 breakfast sandwiches and brought them into work and gave everyone them. because when you don’t have to make it yourself, regardless of what it is, it’s gonna taste really good. It’s, yes, delicious. Right? I was like, okay. Cowan with I there’s only, like, ten people working, but I have this young this young gentleman who will just he he is is a a garbage disposal. So he will just he will just eat He would eat 10, and then everyone else would have 1. Right. And then, so — He’d still be hungry. He’d still be hungry. So we so we go to cash carry lot, which is like the restaurant supply store. And they have, every once in a while, they pull out this cart of stuff that’s like, it’s, you know, stuff. It’s not gone bad. but it’s not selling, or maybe it’s about to go bad. So and so they have this cart and they had, like, four cases of nacho cheese. And I’m talking like the number 10 cans that come on. Those those are like £12.10 each. And 6 of those in the case. and they have 4 or 5 of these cases on a cart. And the manager at the cash crew was like, you want some of these here? Just grab a case. And I was like, I’m good. Like, Sequanshu Nacho Bagel. And I was like, I I don’t know. No. Thanks. So I go back to work from Cash Carey, and I’m like, I’m telling this young gentleman, I’m saying, oh, they have all this nacho cheese at the cash and carry, and they’re just giving it away. And he’s like, are you serious? I’m like, yeah. And he he did nothing. I mean, he said nothing. He literally turned around, went out the back door, got in his car and drove to Cash Carey. and loaded up the back of his car with, I think, three cases of this nacho cheese. And then the next day, I’m like, I’m like, Gavin, did you really go over that at all and not choose? Like, he’s he’s like, yeah. And I ate a half a can last night. And I was like, did you heat it up? And he’s like, no. And he I was like, are you okay? You look like mummified. Your skin is turning yellow. He’s like, no. No. I’m fine. He’s like sweating heavily. Gosh. I mean, I used I used to be able to eat like that when I was a teenager, because he’s, like, he’s, like, 18, but And then — Yeah. I — Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:32:11]:
— I could too.

Josh Grunig [00:32:12]:
But, you know, but we love him. He’s hardworking guy. What are you gonna do? It’ll catch up with him eventually.

Scott Cowan [00:32:20]:
Yeah. Is is he’s yeah. I think, wow. My gosh. Alright. You you you named a couple of sandwiches. So let me ask you this. How did you how do you go about naming items on the menu. How did this how did the Rachel come to well, how did that come? The Rachel was like a thing.

Josh Grunig [00:32:41]:
that someone told me about from another deli. k. I don’t I don’t know where that name came from. Skokie, the Skokie, So my grandparents are from Chicago, and the city they grew up in is called is called Skokie. So that’s how it came up with that name. we do another sandwich called the Bronx delight, and someone reached out from LA and said I used to go to the katella bakery and deli in LA, and they had this sandwich, and it was corned beef, pastrami, and salami. called the Bronx delight, you should put that on your menu. And I was like, that sounds like a very big sandwich. I will definitely put that on the menu. And so that’s how you came up with that name. I’m looking at your menu.

Scott Cowan [00:33:27]:
The Bronx delight has 8 ounces of pastrami, 8 ounces of corn beef, beast in cleaver salami on rye with mustard.

Josh Grunig [00:33:36]:
Yeah. We gotta have the mustard. So

Scott Cowan [00:33:39]:
Well, technically, it’s almost a big — — calories. Can we take the mustard off?

Josh Grunig [00:33:46]:
I was gonna say you get a little you get a little vegetable in there if you get the mustard. Right? Gosh. So, we we, like, once in a while, we don’t sell that very often. Right? But when we sell that, someone will come and they will eat the whole thing. in one sitting. And they’re like, I drove here. I have nothing else to do today. I was like, oh god.

Scott Cowan [00:34:10]:
I hope not. I hope not. So — Do they just sleep in the corner? Can they just, you know, just sleep?

Josh Grunig [00:34:17]:
Yeah. Free — Gosh. — free, like, you get, like, a airplane pillow. after to just lay down on the table.

Scott Cowan [00:34:24]:
So so tell me, I’m looking at your menu. There’s you’ve got a lot going on here. Let’s talk breakfast first. What’s your best seller for breakfast?

Josh Grunig [00:34:33]:
Well, our our all time best selling thing that we sell is the Franco. k. So the Franco is pastrami, two eggs, cheddar, on a bagel — Mhmm. — with some mayo. Some people don’t like mayo. some people that work for Silversteins really like Mayo and we call him the Mayo King where he he would that’s his name. His name’s the Mayo King. He’s earned it. He really likes Mayo.

Scott Cowan [00:35:00]:
Okay.

Josh Grunig [00:35:02]:
he’s changed different things out of that sandwich. There’s always a lot of mayo. Like — Oh, so the mayo is the consistent thing. One one might say too much mayo if it was me. I just like a little bit but anyway, sorry. I digress here. So the Franco is like our all time favorite popular thing. We saw that from 8 AM to 3 PM all day every day. It’s like — Okay. I mean, more than even single bagels or anything. We just sell a ton of Franco. The Franco goes. That’s that’s the way it is. Yeah. Okay. And and that place, I went to New York before I started Zylberschteins to take a bagel class and to go all over New York and try bagels, And there was a place in Brooklyn called Frankl’s, and they did a sandwich like that. And so I was like, I’m definitely stealing that and definitely using the name. So that’s where that name came from. So — Alright. — I mean, things are borrowed. Things are are stolen. Things are, suggested.

Scott Cowan [00:35:56]:
instead of instead of, you know, instead of stolen, may maybe we maybe we should, you know, frame it as it’s a homage.

Josh Grunig [00:36:03]:
It’s inspired. You’re right. you know, that’s strong. I don’t wanna get canceled. So you’re right. Yeah. Inspired by.

Scott Cowan [00:36:12]:
Chinehurst Poutine.

Josh Grunig [00:36:14]:
Oh, yeah. We sell a lot of that.

Scott Cowan [00:36:18]:
Only on weekends.

Josh Grunig [00:36:19]:
Only on weekends. Yeah. is that? That’s not a business lunch dish. You’re not, like, you’re rolling up your tie. Like,

Scott Cowan [00:36:31]:
Does somebody does anybody ever has anybody ever ordered the put team and the Bronx Delight at once?

Josh Grunig [00:36:38]:
No. I mean, that’s enough food for a family for week. So yeah. Yeah. Oh

Scott Cowan [00:36:45]:
my gosh. Wow. Okay. So I have to ask my standard question. You’re you’re on your menu, you’ve got drip coffee. Yeah. Are you are you a coffee fan?

Josh Grunig [00:36:58]:
Big time.

Scott Cowan [00:37:01]:
Alright. This is this is gonna be a tough one because it’s Seattle, and I tried a lot of coffee in Seattle, but where’s a great place to get a cup of coffee in Seattle? You can name your place if you’d like, but, you know, we’re — Yeah. Where’s a great coffee shop in Seattle? Well, I mean, we u we we use broadcast coffee.

Josh Grunig [00:37:15]:
k. And that’s so we use their beans. And that is, arguably one of the best in Seattle. and I would also recommend Herkimer Coffee that’s in Greenwood. they they make extremely good coffee. But I will tell you I’ll tell you, Mike, if you, if you really want to have a cup of coffee, and you really know what’s up. You just order an espresso with, like, with some bubbly water. That’s the purest form coffee that you can have from, like, if if someone’s a coffee roaster and you, like, if you can speak their language, that’s what you order. Like, you just get because when I go to places, I’m like, or you just have a black drip. And, I mean, most — That’s fine. Yeah. That’s my go to. Yeah. For sure. But I would say those two places.

Scott Cowan [00:38:06]:
Okay. Yeah. Alright. Well, I’m a I I feel like we’re not doing the menu justice here, but you got a lot of bagels, a lot of lows of bread. What’s your, putting you on the spot, your favorite your favorite bread?

Josh Grunig [00:38:25]:
I’d say probably the rye bread. k. Or the pump you know, I love the Pumper Nickel Bagels. We only do those once a week. those are super popular. And, It’s hard to say. I mean, I mean, like, a lot of days I I’ll go for a Biali with, like, a fried egg on top. That’s that’s where it’s at for me. So, it really just depends. You know? Like, I haven’t I haven’t been at Zylberschteins a whole lot. And usually, I I’ll go and get a 15th Ave, and that’s a breakfast sandwich with bacon, eggs, cheese on a croissant. and it’s got a little bit of greens in it, but it’s like the bacon and the croissant together just that’s where it’s at. That’s worth that. Yeah. I mean, both of those sandwiches are really good. I mean, to be honest with you, like, I I don’t eat a lot of red meat. And when you — k. — when you are smoking and cutting thousands of pounds of pastrami on a regular basis, it it doesn’t make you wanna eat it. I was gonna say, does it do you lose kind of the the

Scott Cowan [00:39:30]:
the fan the fan boy aspect of it, if you will? Is it yeah. For sure.

Josh Grunig [00:39:36]:
but I still love making it and I love serve you know, I love seeing other people enjoy it for sure.

Scott Cowan [00:39:45]:
So — But dealing with it on the on the daily basis is. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I love croissants.

Josh Grunig [00:39:51]:
Like, and we used to just swimming butter. Like, when when we were wholesaling and we were going through, oh, man, we we were going through, like, 5 we’re going through about a £180 of butter a day for croissant. So that was, like, 5 or 6 cases of butter every single day. and you’re like, go home and you’re finding butter, like, behind your shirt. Like, you’re where how’d that get there? I don’t know. but it doesn’t make you wanna eat a croissant. And now I don’t make croissant that much, and I and I enjoy having a a good croissant

Scott Cowan [00:40:24]:
more often. So — Okay. Like — So what’s what’s what’s next for the deli?

Josh Grunig [00:40:32]:
well, so so I open crystal ball say. Why? the well, I opened a new location in Seward Park called Murrials, and it’s it. Seward Park has a big, Jewish population So, and every I’d say, like, twice a week, we we get a call at SilverScience. Like, are you guys kosher and be like, no, we’re not kosher. And so I knew that there was a market for doing a kosher business. Mhmm. So immurals is kosher. We’re a kosher dairy restaurant and a parve bakery. So parve basically means that you it’s food that can be eaten with either meat or cheese. So it’s — Okay. — it’s for us, it’s, challah, bagels, rye bread, and biolis. We do biolis every day. Mhmm. so that’s our backroom where we do the baked goods. And then in the front, we do, you know, essentially vegetarian food. So it’s a lot of French festivals, grilled cheese sandwiches, you know, cheesy toast with eggs. Lots of lots of avocado toast. and so just it’s all meat free, but we use all kosher cream cheese and cheese and all that stuff. So that’s definitely that has been my that’s been my life the last 4 months now. We Cowan January 20th. So — Oh, wow. Yeah. So it’s been a minute.

Scott Cowan [00:42:00]:
So I’m on I’m on your website for Edithmurals where you you talk about your inspiration. Yeah. And I just wanna read this because I think this is really kinda cool. My grandmother was Maryal Stein. She loved life with 2 open arms, always ready for a nosh, and loved a cold beer. Yeah. Somehow, I just think that’s a great.

Josh Grunig [00:42:22]:
That’s awesome. Yeah. That’s awesome. Well, and I should mention also some Muriel’s we we are a partner with Chuck’s Hop Shop. So our space, we our space is inside of 3rd place Cowan, and Chuck’s does the beer, and we do the food. And so — Okay. — like Chuck approached him about this project when it came along. That was my first thought was like, instantly thought of my grandmother who loved beer, She really liked, like, Corona. She like Mexican beers. Like, before Mexican lagers were We’re so fat. We’re so fashionable. Like — Right. — but she liked a light. Like, she, you know, she’d be down with, like, a corona and a slice of beer. That was her Okay. That’s like I have that so seared into my mind when I was like, I must have been, like, 13 or 14, but we I called my grandma, and I’m like, okay. We’re coming back. We’re getting food. What do you want? She’s like, bring me a 6 pack and a Pepperoni pizza. And I was like, okay. That’s what I’ll have.

Scott Cowan [00:43:23]:
I’ll have that too. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Help me out here because as you know, before we well, we hit record and I was butchering names, but you’re going to be according to this, you’re gonna be certified. And I’m not gonna even try to pronounce. Oh, oh, you mean murals? Sorry. Yeah. So,

Josh Grunig [00:43:43]:
Muriel’s is Pasi Israel, which is the parve bakery part of it. And it’s halav, Israel. And so for the restaurant, so it’s kosher dairy. And so, essentially, what that means is a lot of Israel is kind of the strictest form of kosher dairy that you can source And it essentially means that there is a

Scott Cowan [00:44:11]:
a Jewish supervision from a from the

Josh Grunig [00:44:15]:
moment the dairy is produced from the cow to the moment it gets to the consumer essentially. Wow. So, like, every stage, there’s a Jewish person overseen by a rabbi who is monitoring the quality of of that product.

Scott Cowan [00:44:32]:
So farm to table, if you will, is having Jewish supervision or in — Yeah. So how do you so Where does walk me through this? Because — Yeah. — like, where are you getting your your milk from?

Josh Grunig [00:44:50]:
Most of it comes from East Coast. Yeah. We use a a kosher distributor. some of the cheese comes from, like, Wisconsin. Some of it comes from New York. so there, I mean, there there is a a a larger demand for for the kosher stuff on the East Coast, and so that’s where a lot of the products are made. — Okay. — we actually don’t do a lot of importing. Like, most of the stuff is done, is done domestically as far as the dairy goes. And it’s it’s interesting, like, with with SilverSciences too because we have always put a lot of work into using local locally sourced stuff. because it’s just usually of the best possible quality when it’s fresh and it and also, like, when you know the producer that’s making it, a lot of the small producers, like, I know them personally. Right. And a lot of those relationships have, really benefited and not been hurt by supply chain issues. So because we’re like, hey. We use flower from the Skagit valley, it’s like there’s no boat in between us and Scatter Valley. There’s just a truck. You know? Like, so it’s, I mean, a lot of that has kind of benefited us, but That is definitely a big concern moving forward because, you know, flour price flour prices supposed to go up about 30% in the next 12 months. because of I mean, essentially because of demand and because of the war in Ukraine. So because there isn’t that supply in Europe, there’s gonna be this demand for American wheat and it’s just gonna drive up the cost of everything. So —

Scott Cowan [00:46:32]:
I did read an article and it change pricing, but I did read that the wheat crop here in Washington this year is supposed to be larger than — Yeah. — normal. So, you know, not that that’s gonna offset much. I don’t think so. Yeah. Well, so Murrow’s is open. Where do I see that to so you close on Mondays Tuesdays. You open Wednesdays through Friday. So you’re really only open it’s only really only open 3 days a week. No. We’re open Wednesday through Sunday. Now I’m gonna be I’m gonna give you a hard time because nobody can see this, but I’m gonna point here to the website where it says closed on Saturday Sunday. On,

Josh Grunig [00:47:13]:
is that on the web on our website? Yes, sir. That’s not good. Is that on Google or on our actual website? No. This is on

Scott Cowan [00:47:22]:
edit murials.com main page at the bottom. We’re pull you got a few mini items here. Jeez. See? I failed. Here’s the map.

Josh Grunig [00:47:32]:
I believe you. I just don’t like it.

Scott Cowan [00:47:37]:
Hey. At least we found out now. Right? And you’re wondering, like, how come Saturday is this? It is your slow.

Josh Grunig [00:47:43]:
so mad. It explains so much. Dude, what’s up with that? Well, that’s easy to fix. I can I can sit here and fix this while we’re talking. I’m not going to. I’m just But you could. So that’s the good news is it’s easy. Well, who scrolls to the bottom of the page anyway? Right?

Scott Cowan [00:48:04]:
I’m I’m old. And I’m

Josh Grunig [00:48:07]:
I wanna see every corner of this website.

Scott Cowan [00:48:10]:
Every inch of it. Is it is it is it responsive, mobile friendly?

Josh Grunig [00:48:15]:
No. No. It’s not. So, yeah, it’s — Well, that actually that it with burials. So we do a QR code ordering. And — Mhmm. — I’ve talked to several people about this. And the thing with QR code ordering is like, it is good and bad. My one of my issues with it is, like, on a on a mobile device, it’s really hard to, like, make a menu look good. And — Yes. — and I and I have not seen a place solve this problem because we use a POS. Like, we use Square that — Mhmm. — that integrates with your mobile device. And so and, I can’t even think of a good example, but it’s like, if there was a way to make, like, a fold out printed menu on a mobile format somehow, I don’t know.

Scott Cowan [00:49:06]:
Someone will come up with it. But — Yeah. You know, when they when they implant the chips in our head that we just have the the menu in front of us here virtually, and we’re looking at it. You know, augmented reality or whatever that’s gonna be. Well, I mean, food prices are going up so high. I’ll take some,

Josh Grunig [00:49:21]:
augmented food. Sounds good to me. I just had a burger.

Scott Cowan [00:49:25]:
Yeah. So it has, I mean, not that we’re trying to turn this into a business podcast, but from Costs of doing business? Yeah. Have things have you noticed a a drastic increase across the across the board?

Josh Grunig [00:49:42]:
Yes. Absolutely. I mean, I think I think one of the challenges, the there’s there’s always been a new set of challenge. Right? And so, like, for instance, today, we just noticed that one of our vendors charges us $2 more for our fuel for our fuel charge. So they just added that on. And it’s, you know, I mean, it’s like $2. Right? It’s like, oh, who’s gonna who’s gonna notice? But it’s like those little things that just keep adding up and kind of chipping away. we we are being really, we’re being really careful about our, about our pricing, and we’re changing our pricing all the time. I actually heard I heard a thing on, They interviewed this guy on the radio who’s I think he was, like, in, New Jersey or Philadelphia or something. He has a pizza place. And he’s like, you know, pizza places are not. They’re on the lower end of price points. And he’s like, he essentially said, like, he’s having to change his prices so often that he just stopped doing a print menu. that he’s because people are mostly ordering online and he’s just constantly increasing his prices, like, a week to week basis because of how the prices are changing. So, yeah, so that’s the world we live in now. But, you know, I think I mean, the other thing that that he said was I thought was interesting was, you know, people, uh-uh, a lot of people are kind of being forced to or choosing to eat out less and and cooking for themselves a little bit more. Not all the time, But, you know, they were, like, talking to these different customers. And they’re like, you know, I used to go out. I used to eat out 5 to 6 days a week, and now it’s, like, 3 days a week. because it’s just too much money. And so, I mean, it is it’s impacting people at the grocery store too. So it’s kind of like people are are having to make harder decision about what kind of stuff they can buy. And — Sure. — once in a while, we get a knucklehead that complains about our high prices. And then we and then I have to explain to them, we’re not ripping anybody off. We’re just trying to stay in business. you know, like, I’m glad you decide to come crawl out of your hole so that and apparently, you have never watched or heard the news. from anywhere or heard the word supply chain. You’ve never heard this term. And but, yes, send me all your vitriol. I I want all of it. Just just — Yes. Give me a 10 page. I’ll preview a Vitril. I would love that. So

Scott Cowan [00:52:26]:
Yeah. We could go down that we could put it.

Josh Grunig [00:52:30]:
I’ll just put a period on that.

Scott Cowan [00:52:32]:
Yep. How has Muriel’s been received since this is the newest project? Oh, it’s been great. People people love the food.

Josh Grunig [00:52:41]:
We definitely have been tinkering a lot. And, you know, and I was thinking, I was thinking about what I said earlier about how you know, we don’t know. We don’t know. You know? And that’s part of opening a new business. I mean, I had a I had a much more clear idea of how this was gonna go because of Silversteins and because of having a little bit more restaurant experience, but, there are I I always like to describe how it’s a dialogue and how you have a community of people they wanna eat food. Mhmm. And you have to figure out what they wanna eat. And so you Cowan offer them some things and then they’re gonna communicate with you, and then you make some adjustments. And then you and then you, like, put some more stuff out there. And then you say, oh, do you like this? And they’re like, yeah. I don’t really like that. And so we I mean, we’ve changed the menu every month. if not, a couple times we’ve changed it every 2 weeks where we’re just like, okay. That’s not selling. Stop doing it. Like, we I feel like the the window, the window for accepting loss or or waste is so tiny at murals. now compared to at SilverScience because when you’re when you’re open for a while, you have things that sell and that are popular, and it’s hard to take those things away.

Scott Cowan [00:54:05]:
Mhmm. And so it’s been just a much quicker turnaround of like, oh, people don’t want that. Let’s get rid of it. Like, We don’t have room for that. Give me an example of something that you thought would be a a I I love asking these, you know, what was what was a a quote, quote, failure because we learned something from it all the time. So what was something you thought would be well received? And it just It just wasn’t. No. I just saw that I just saw that,

Josh Grunig [00:54:31]:
a couple minutes ago on Instagram where it was like, it’s not a failure. unless you ignore the data. You know? And I was like, yeah. Yeah. That’s that’s a good attitude to have. Right? I mean, so, We well, so, initially, we were open until 7 PM because we’re part of this beer bar. We thought let’s have, like, lots of fried stuff and more, like, bar snack stuff. And, you know, we’d get into, like, happy hour, and it wasn’t really selling. And so it kinda it kinda turned out that people wanted, like, dinner. They wanted, like, sit down dinner. Mhmm. And So people would say, oh, you know, can we get, well, a lot of people were like, where’s the meat? Where’s the meat? Like, I want a Ruben with pastrami, and I’d be like, okay. A Ruben, that’s, I think, the funniest thing to me because a Ruben is arguably the most iconic Jewish deli food that you could think of that I that’s what I always think of. Right? And it is the most unholy, unkosher thing that someone could eat because you have red meat with cheese. in a sandwich that is, like, that breaks a lot of rules. So, which I think is really funny And then a lot of that having to do with the fact that, like, Jewish daily culture in New York where it really, like, had where it really grew and exploded. That Jewish daily culture, as we know in America, was, was built for non kosher Americans, non Jewish people. Like, it wasn’t built for kosher observant people, and I think that’s what’s really what’s really interesting about that. So, I mean, that’s a whole other conversation, but, I love that. I love that, like, oh, yeah. That is the most Jewish deli thing, but a kosher person will not touch that and eat, you know, so so back to your actual question that I will eventually answer. so we we were like, oh, people want bar snacks, and it turned out people just want a dinner. And the thing is, like, to operate a food business and do three meal periods, essentially over a 12 hour period. The staffing that is needed to do that is very, very challenging. And so — I can imagine. Yeah. So we weren’t making and we weren’t making enough money at night to justify having the staff to stay open. And so — Okay. You know, so initially, we were open 8 to 7, and then we weren’t really getting a 8 AM crowd. So we Cowan it, start opening at 9, And then we were like, okay. Let’s just do lunch. Like, this is becoming the neighborhood lunch place. That’s where we’re making the most money between 11:1. now we’re just gonna focus on that. Like, we’re just gonna focus on that thing that people are telling us they want, which is lunch, And then eventually, maybe we can build it out to doing dinner. We we are trying to get a lot more of the breakfast crowd You know? so I guess to answer your questions, like, we just are focusing on what works and what doesn’t. and responding very quickly. And so, like — Mhmm. — we were doing, we’re doing these carrot fritters and they were super delicious. They were like it it was just carrots with a little bit of egg and chickpea flour and we’d fry them up and then it had this delicious, like, yogurt, dukka sauce and dukka’s a spiced, nut mix. And ours had hazelnuts and pistachio, and then it’s got, like, Cowan and lemon. and it was super delicious, but, they took way too long to make. They were labor intensive. and they didn’t sell great. And then they also took a really long time to fry. So like a regular, basket of fries takes, like, 5 to 6 minutes, and these care critters were taking 10 to 12 minutes. And so, like, it would take 30 minutes to get someone an appetizer. I mean, because that was, like, a starter. You know? So that was something where we’re like, well, this tastes good. but it’s not super pop. It I I held onto that dish, I think, a little bit longer because I just really enjoyed eating it. And, but eventually, it was like, well, this is just causing more problems than it’s solving. So

Scott Cowan [00:59:11]:
Are you do you have, you know, and you’ve just opened a, you know, restaurant that’s been Cowan 5 months or so at the time we’re recording this? Still in its early stages. Still, I’m guessing you’re still, you know, finding your way, if you will. You know? So this question might be challenging, but what’s the future look like? Are you are you gonna keep ex do you want to keep expanding? Do you wanna kind of broaden and and like like, I’m a Indiana company. Well, help me out on the tip of my tongue is. Oh, Zigerman’s. Yeah. So do you wanna be more like them and and and broaden the foundation, if you will, and partner with other people and bring things in? Or what what do you think you wanna do down the road?

Josh Grunig [01:00:00]:
Oh, I don’t know. perfect. I mean, I kinda I mean, to be honest with you right now, it’s, to get murals out of the red, you know, to be you know, I mean, we’re we’re not, like, hemorrhaging money, but we’re not making any money. Like, we’re it’s really, really tight. and It’s hard to see. I mean, people talk about, oh, man, it’s it’s hard to it’s hard to be finding people to work in the food industry Cowan it’s hard to find people in service. And that’s 100% true. And the the part of it part of there’s many, many there’s a a bevy of reasons that has caused that. And what I would say is, like, it gives me pause to say, oh, I wanna open up a whole bunch of locations because who’s gonna work there? And for instance, I will tell you what happened today. like, at muriel’s, my, primary baker got COVID. So she’s out. We don’t have a replacement for her. And then as I’m, like, trying to shift my attention onto that at Muriel’s, my other baker at SilverSines called me and said, oh, I broke my hand. doing kickboxing. And I just went to the I just went to get an X-ray. And, yeah, I shattered my hand in two places. So I’m not coming to work tomorrow. And so, like, we don’t have a replacement for those people. I mean, other than me, you’re looking at me, like, that’s I’m the replacement to fill in for those two people. The problem is that I have not yet figured out how to duplicate myself or to be in two places at once. So I can only be in one place tomorrow. to cover these 2 problems. So and this is, like, a very common issue where you’re like, there’s no room to have extra people. But then you don’t have room. If you lose one of those people either, you don’t have a lot of wiggle room. And so, So it gives me pause to say, to I don’t know. I think today, I would say I cannot see past my hand. to, like, completely fair. What the future holds. I do know that people love bagels and, you know, Seattle is having a bagel moment and I think there’s a lot of opportunity to to have a lot more bagels in Seattle and that I’m not gonna be the one to do all of it. You know? And it’s it’s been really cool to be living in Seattle and, you know, there’s, like, 5 or 6 Bagel places that didn’t did not exist 3 years ago. And it’s it’s a pretty great moment. to be in a city with a bagel scene. and I know everyone and everyone’s, like, super Cowan. And, you know, and so, you know, I just hope that that continues. So — Okay.

Scott Cowan [01:03:10]:
for this next question trends trends, you know, gets us away from what you do professionally to what you do in your off time. But given you just told me that you’re down to Bakers tomorrow, you the the off time. Okay. But what do you what do you and the family like to do when you’re not filling in for

Josh Grunig [01:03:29]:
staff. Oh, well, we got it. We we have a, we got it a puppy in December So we go to the we well, we like to go to the dog park in Magnolia or not in Magnus and Park. We have to go to the big dog park there.

Scott Cowan [01:03:42]:
Okay.

Josh Grunig [01:03:43]:
And then right now, it’s like, if it’s nice outside, we just try to be outside. So, you know, my kids are 5 and 8. And so If we if it’s not raining and we can spend most of the day outside, we’ve been we’ve been doing a little bit of tennis lately. Okay. So my eight year old’s kinda getting into tennis. And, I I am flirting with the idea of trying to go play pickleball on a regular basis, but What is the state sport? it is. Have you have you interviewed a pickle ball, ex — I have not. — pro? I have not. It’s their — No. I have not.

Scott Cowan [01:04:18]:
I have not infused with pickleball Pro. Do you know when?

Josh Grunig [01:04:22]:
I mean, I’m I I literally a month ago learned that it was the state sport. So I don’t I’m not the person to ask. I will tell you though that, like, every tennis court I drive by seemingly lately has pickleball courts on it. So — Interesting. And I did look at a, like, a meetup group, of pickleball people. So or and there’s, like, leagues and stuff. but, that’s as far as I’ve gotten. That’s what I’m saying. I started with the idea. I would very much like to do that this summer. So — k. What type of puppy did you get? Oh, she’s a Blue healer in German shepherd.

Scott Cowan [01:05:02]:
So low energy. Just

Josh Grunig [01:05:05]:
calm. Yeah. Who has low energy jobs? Yeah. I mean, who has a low energy puppy?

Scott Cowan [01:05:13]:
Yeah. We don’t. We we got our we got our puppy in April and It’s a Bernice mountain dog, which is — Do you like paint? Well, I about 25 years ago, I had 1, and he was Wonderful, mellow chill. And I forgot the whole puppy thing. This guy, we just weighed him. He’s three months old and he’s £36.

Josh Grunig [01:05:35]:
Oh my god.

Scott Cowan [01:05:36]:
And, you know, I think we’re gonna put a saddle on him so our cat can write him around. Yeah. Pretty much. and he is just relentlessly busy. Yeah. Until he doesn’t want to do something and then he just lays down and won’t move. Yeah.

Josh Grunig [01:05:49]:
So that’s that’s what I do with my spare time right now. They’re really fun dogs. I actually looked. I looked at getting 1. The the what’s funny about our puppy was, like, I wanted a bigger dog My wife really loves Blue Heelers. And I’ve I’ve always had, like, I had a golden retriever when I was a kid. I had a black lab. So I’ve always, like, kinda medium, larger dogs. and we couldn’t quite, like, agree. And I I actually was like, I would love to get a German shepherd. I love German Shepherd. They’re wonderful family dogs. This would be great. And then we find this blue heeler German shepherd mix. And it was like, This is great. And she’s actually she’s only like, she she’s almost 6 months and she’s about £31. So — Okay. — she’s I feel like she’s kinda slowed down. Like, I don’t think she’s gonna get I think she’s gonna be, like, £55.60 at max. So

Scott Cowan [01:06:41]:
we’ll see.

Josh Grunig [01:06:43]:
Not not a £160

Scott Cowan [01:06:45]:
like your your beast of a dog. Yeah. He’ll, you know, ours he’ll probably be a 130

Josh Grunig [01:06:50]:
My cousin has a Burvy Smile dog, and I’m like, I mean, I’m assuming you have a lot of space at your house. Yeah. We do. Yeah. So that’s yeah. My my Cowan has, like, a little tiny backyard, and I’m like, What’s your dog is gonna eat you? Your dog will eat you alive. You shouldn’t do that. Don’t subject a dog to this, but that’s okay. I would say that to your face.

Scott Cowan [01:07:16]:
my my friend has a three year old burner. Yeah. And and I and I and I and I’ve always wanted another one, but I was never gonna make a big effort to do it. And so I just said to him, I said, hey, if if if the breeder that you got, his name is Otto, his dog’s name is Otto. if the breeder that you got auto from ever has an extra in the litter, just let me know. So I get this text message. Do you wanna buy a dog? This is, like, 2 years later than from, you know, and I go, what are you talking about? He goes, well, the breeder, she’s got some extras this time because of people backed out because of, you know, fears of the economy, things like that. And we’re getting 1 too. And so I go, you’re gonna have so he’s got a puppy. You have a puppy. I was talking to him today, literally on the phone, and we were kinda comparing war stories. And I feel it’s a little better about our — Yeah. — what we’re going through. It’s like, But, yeah, he’s a he’s fine. Don’t get me wrong. So let’s let’s wrap up with with my get out of jail free question. because we could go on for a long time. What didn’t I ask you that I should have?

Josh Grunig [01:08:26]:
Well, what I always what I always think about in moments like this when I have challenging days And for some, you know, I I all day today, I was looking forward to having this podcast with you. And I was like, I’m I’m hopefully, sometimes I really hit the wall at 8 o’clock, and I’m just like, you know, but tonight I was like, I I got my kids organized. I was like, Listen, I’m getting on this thing at 8 o’clock. Like, no messing around or at least go to your room. Leave me alone. They could be screaming bloody murder up there, but I got headphones on. So who no. Alright. But, I think days like this, I remind myself of why I’m in this business, which is that I love to feed people. you know, that that’s what gets me up every day. And although I may not be eating pastrami every day, like, the the ninety year old grandmother that comes and is like, Give me the really fatty cut. Don’t skip me on the fat on that Cowan beef. Like, give me the really fatty corn beef cut, and she’ll, like, we used we used to have people would come in and she would like she’d look over at the cutting board and be like more fat. put more fat in that Cowan beef sandwich. Like, you know, this might be the only corn beef sandwich used for a year. So it’s gotta be right. It’s gotta be the like, the proper sandwich. And so, I mean, part of, feeding people and nourishing people is really the foundation of what I enjoy doing. And that gives me a lot of fulfillment. And so and that’s why I continue to do this business because when I stop when I start thinking about all the impossibles and all of the reasons why I shouldn’t be doing this, like, that’s what it brings it back to me. and and people’s connection with that food. And so, and we have a lot of conversations with about what are we not doing at murals that we did at Silver Science? And a big part of that is talking about the story, connecting with people and the way that you like, you know, I always love that scene in Ratatouille. where the chef eats the ratatouille and he’s transported back or the food critic, and he’s transported back to being a kid. And food is that food to me is a 100% like that. Like, it is transportive. It is magical. that is nourishing. And so if I can, like, even just get a little bit of that pixie dust once in a while and do, like, once in a while, just connect with someone like that. then it’s it’s all worth it for me. So —

Scott Cowan [01:11:05]:
Alright. That’s that’s wonderful. I love that. Well, I wanna thank you for taking the time this evening. 100%. Well, depending on when people are listening to this, but folks were recording this in the evening. So, anyway, but thank you for making that happen. I don’t envy you tomorrow. Yeah. I don’t know what you’re how you’re gonna be in two places at once. I you know, you’ll figure it out.

Josh Grunig [01:11:25]:
Yeah. You can’t call it in. Can’t make bagels over the phone and keep trying.

Scott Cowan [01:11:31]:
No. I mean, what are you gonna do? Are you gonna are you gonna make them in 1 and transport them to the other? Is that what you’re gonna have to do? A 100% not because we have 1 kosher business and 1 non kosher business.

Josh Grunig [01:11:43]:
So they’re separate. They’re like, no. I mean, this, no, we’re gonna be fine. We’ll be fine. Okay. we do have another baker, and we have people that can help. And so, no, it will be fine. So, I mean,

Scott Cowan [01:12:02]:
my my — Next time I get to Seattle. Yeah. Go ahead. Next time I get to Seattle, I’m gonna check you guys out. Yeah. Come on by, man. This looks the the menu. I’m I think my artery is kind of, like, shuttered when I was looking at it a little bit, but you know what the heck? Yeah. Just clear your date planner. It’s fine. Can I can I take a nap in the backroom or something? Well, you can have, you know,

Josh Grunig [01:12:22]:
I’ll tell you a funny story about that because when I went to New York, I went to Katz’s Diner to I went to Katz and I ordered a Ruben and I sat down And there were a bunch of plates that I wanted to go eat. And so I ordered this ribbon, and I ate half of it. and then I was sitting. I I ended up befriending these two people, and they were, like, from Argentina or Brazil or something. And I was like, do you want the other half of my sandwich? Obviously, this was before COVID. And we were chatting. And the guy was like, what? What do you mean? And he, like, I have I’m not gonna say anything bad, but he ordered a bagel locks. which is not the place to get a bagel in locks. No no shade on cats, but if you go to cats, you need to get pastrami. Like, so — Mhmm. I gave him half my sandwich because there were, like, three other places within walking distance that I wanted to go check out. And, and I knew also that if I ate that whole sandwich, I would like I would I would, like, I’d be done. I would just, like, lay down on the counter. So know your limits, you know, bring bring a friend, eat a half a sandwich. So

Scott Cowan [01:13:27]:
let me ask you. I’m gonna ask you this one last question. So there’s these iconic deli names that we’ve heard of. Yeah. New York in LA. Once again, maybe what’s your favorite?

Josh Grunig [01:13:41]:
My favorite deli? Yeah. well, So the place I told you about LA, the Catella bakery, that — Mhmm. — and I went there with my grandparents a few times when I was a kid. So I would say I don’t have the breath the breadth of experience at all these different delis, but I like one of that deli because they also had this they have this huge bakery It was like one of those place like the old Italian baker you walk in and there’s just cases and cases of cookies, just piles and mounds of everything. And that’s like and they do the, like, rainbow cook. So I would say that place in LA. Okay. So I don’t even know if it’s still there. It may not even be there, but then someone told me about this place in Palm Springs called, Sherman’s that I’ve never heard of. And it’s, like, real old school, and it’s all kosher. Like, she could check this place out. And I was like, sure. If I I mean, If I’m gonna go on vacation, it’s not gonna be the desert. I’ll just leave it at that.

Scott Cowan [01:14:45]:
Okay. Thank you so much for making this happen. I really appreciate it. It’s great talking with you, Scott.

Josh Grunig [01:14:51]:
Alright, Alvin.

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