Diggin’ into the Winter Work on the North Cascades Highway: There’s More than Meets the Eye
Exploring Washington State: Navigating the North Cascades Highway with Lauren Loebsack
If you are an adventure-seeker who yearns to experience the breathtaking beauty of the Pacific Northwest, then you’ll want to tune in as we navigate through the North Cascades Highway.
Our very special guest is Lauren Loebsack, the communications manager for the North Central Region of the Washington State Department of Transportation.
From the process of preparing the highway for reopening to the hidden gems and challenges along the way, this episode is packed with useful information for travelers and local enthusiasts alike.
A Peek Behind the Scenes: Preparing the North Cascades Highway for Reopening
Lauren Loebsack showcases her expertise as she walks us through the intricate process of preparing the North Cascades Highway for reopening. From coordinating maintenance crews and evaluating avalanche conditions to considering resources and weather forecasts, her insights shed light on the monumental effort required to ensure a safe and enjoyable journey for all travelers.
With crews on both the east and west sides diligently working to clear snow and conduct avalanche control, the episode provides listeners with a newfound appreciation for the dedicated individuals who make this annual reopening possible. The ceremonial aspect of opening the road for vehicles, complete with music and traditions, adds an extra layer of charm to the experience.
Hidden Gems and Recommendations: Enriching Your Journey
As the conversation unfolds, Lauren Loebsack delves into her personal experiences and shares valuable recommendations for travelers. She emphasizes the importance of checking the Washington State Department of Transportation’s travel map for updates on road conditions and construction zones, offering practical advice for planning a seamless and enjoyable trip.
Additionally, Loebsack’s love for the natural beauty and outdoor activities in the Wenatchee Valley and North Central Washington shines through as she discusses her skiing experiences and favorite spots along the scenic drive. It’s evident that her passion for the region extends beyond her professional role.
Planning for Your Journey: Practical Tips and Considerations
To equip listeners with practical advice, the podcast explores typical repairs on the highway, including snow-induced damage and ongoing cleanup efforts. Loebsack’s warning about potential winter conditions on the mountain pass, even after the arrival of spring, serves as a timely reminder for travelers to prepare for varying weather conditions.
Additionally, her recommendations for the best times to travel the highway, along with suggestions for scenic stops and the lack of open facilities and services, offer invaluable insights for anyone considering a trip along this iconic route.
We hope you will enjoy listening to this episode as much as we enjoyed recording it.
Connect With Washington State Department of Transportation
Lauren Loebsack Highway 20 Episode Transcript
Scott Cowan [00:00:04]:
Hello, friends, and welcome to the Exploring Washington State podcast. My name is Scott Cowan, and I’m the host of the show. Each episode, I have a conversation with an interesting guest who is living in or from Washington State. These are casual conversations with real and interesting people. I think you’re gonna like the show. So let’s jump right in with today’s guest. I am sitting down today with Lauren Lovesac, the communications manager for the North Central Region of Washington State Department of Transportation. I think I got it right.
Scott Cowan [00:00:33]:
We’re gonna move on. Lauren has agreed to sit down with me today, and we’re gonna talk about the North Cascades Highway, which, at the time we’re recording this, is opening tomorrow. We’re recording this on 18th. Highway’s opening on 19th. I’m not sure when this is going live, but when you’re listening to it, the highway’s open. Lauren, thank you for being here. As I told you before, give the audience a little bit of your backstory and how you ended up as the communications manager here.
Lauren Loebsack [00:01:03]:
Really, that’s a story about a community helping me find my path as well. I was born and raised in Waterville, graduated from Waterville High School, attended Wenatchee Valley College, and, didn’t really have, like, a firm plan for a career, so just started working, and, actually started working at the Chelan County Juvenile Center, and then, worked several years, transitioned into working for Chelan Douglas Behavioral Health, working with folks, transitioning out of the hospital into, their lives again and really loved that work, really liked working for my community and being a public servant. And so when I needed sort of a break from the intensity of that work, I just applied for a job that was contracts at Chelan County Public Works and didn’t really understand at that time, what roads what it meant to keep roads open and to keep people moving safely on them. And in that time, I worked there 8 years, just fell in love with everything about it. I actually pavement, programs, chip seal, crack sealing, and then, stormwater, all these nerdy things. I thought, oh, wow. Because all of a sudden you look around at these structures and this infrastructure that seems really passive and you realize what it takes and what it means and the importance of those, investments. And, just in growing my career, moved to Link Transit and, did planning work there, and that, between that and the PIO work that I did at Chelan County Public Works, I just had developed the skills and the interest to keep being the person that was sharing with the public.
Lauren Loebsack [00:03:05]:
I think it’s fascinating, bridge, you know, to be and, you know, a gap to try to fill where, you know, I see I got to see kind of how the sausage was made as somebody who was coming in, not really understanding it, and, have really tried to, be that advocate for people to understand where their taxpayer dollars are going and, really share about the interesting work. So I I don’t know if wonk’s the right word, but I just really like it.
Scott Cowan [00:03:40]:
So when did you end up here at this Washington Scott?
Lauren Loebsack [00:03:43]:
I just got my 5 year pin. So, I started in March of 2018, and so, actually, one of my first field visits was up behind the closure points, the opening work that they were doing that spring up on North Cascades, and I got to go up there one gorgeous bluebird spring day and, see them clear the Liberty Bell Chutes, and I was just blown away by the work and the expertise and the scenery.
Scott Cowan [00:04:14]:
Okay. So in preparing for this, one of the things that I found out was that the North Cascades Highway is relatively new and that it was finished in 1972. So I’m gonna ask you a question that you may not know the answer to. And if you don’t, that’s fine. Is that the newest highway in the state of Washington?
Lauren Loebsack [00:04:36]:
Oh, I would say probably not, but it is most likely the newest mountain pass of that, you know, sort of
Scott Cowan [00:04:45]:
Yeah. I was just trying to think. I go, you know, I’m like, I don’t know that there’s anything newer. I didn’t realize I was having a conversation with my mom, and I said, when I was a kid, did we ever go over that? And she kind of gave me this blank look and goes, I don’t think so. And I go, I don’t think so either. And then I realized, well, it wasn’t even Cowan when I was a kid. So it couldn’t have I mean Yeah. It wouldn’t have done that.
Scott Cowan [00:05:07]:
So what I think is interesting about the North Cascades Highway and a couple other ones here in Washington state too, but we’re only gonna put you on the spot on North Cascades Highway, is that it closes every year. Mhmm. Whether it has to or Scott, it’s it it closes every year. And in most cases, it has to. I get that. But it it closes because of safety reasons. And that to me, like like, all of us that travels Snoqualmie, it can close at a moment because there’s an accident or there’s a heavy heavy Yeah. Weather incident, but it they this the state department keeps it.
Scott Cowan [00:05:43]:
Transportation keeps it open. They don’t keep the North Cascades Highway open, which to me is very intriguing because you’ve gotta shut it Cowan. Mhmm. And then you gotta clear it, and then you’ve gotta open it. And so what I wanna know and what I I want you to to share with us is what’s that process like year after year? Is it just 1 guy in a push broom? Is it you know, what’s what does this look like so that when the state opens those gates and says, you can proceed again, how much work does it take in a typical year to do that?
Lauren Loebsack [00:06:19]:
Well, it’s it’s an a real endeavor, and it takes a couple of crews, and it requires, you know, coordination and expertise between, those maintenance clearing crews from both the west side and the east side, and as well as our avalanche control crews evaluating just the conditions to get in there. There are dozens of avalanche chutes between Cutthroat and Liberty Bell, just in a few miles on Washington Pass, and they’re very steep, and, they have some real snow loads, in the pathways. And so I think, actually, the intent may be have even in the beginning to keep that path open and then just nature said otherwise. And, there have been maybe Wenatchee was maybe 1 winter where it didn’t close because there wasn’t, you know, the conditions that press upon us to close it, not enough snow. But otherwise, it it really is that that team that has had that, institutional knowledge, worked, you know, there with the crews as they have done this year in, and year out. The superintendent now is, in that area who oversees that team was the supervisor that I met, and he learned under a superintendent who had worked in that area all of his life. So it it there is some institutional knowledge of that experience, but, there really is a lot of consideration of the forecast, consideration of, resources otherwise as well. So, and we start our closures typically at on the east side at Silver Star Gate, which is milepost, 171 on SR 20.
Lauren Loebsack [00:08:12]:
And then, typically, right after Christmas time or so, when winter really picks up, in the lower altitudes, our crews need to be dealing with priority routes down there. So they fall back to early winters and give that, 7 more miles. They don’t clear that. And, that never happened this year just because it was a milder year.
Scott Cowan [00:08:34]:
Right.
Lauren Loebsack [00:08:34]:
And so it really is a response to conditions with the experience being telling you how to do that.
Scott Cowan [00:08:42]:
So you have 2 crews, 1 based on the east side and one based on the west side. Yes. What if they were based, where are they located? If the if you said based Right. Where?
Lauren Loebsack [00:08:52]:
So typically, twist and then, on the west side is actually a different region. So, and you try not to split hairs with that, you know, because that’s our way we’re dealing with work. But, the other crew is out of New Halem or wherever that shed would be Okay. Closest there.
Scott Cowan [00:09:09]:
So is it correct that they’re working eastbound? They’re they’re heading east and the crew out of Twist is working west, and they’re gonna meet in the middle, if you will, or middle. Okay. And they shake hands and cheering.
Lauren Loebsack [00:09:20]:
You know? Yeah. Okay. Okay. And it’s a race. Do a TikTok dance. That’s what we do. We tried to recruit that and there was no bites from the crew. Alright.
Lauren Loebsack [00:09:30]:
So what
Scott Cowan [00:09:32]:
approximate let’s just talk about the east side crew because that’s the crew that you’re you’re more familiar with. With. Approximately, how many workers are working out of the TWSPS location for this?
Lauren Loebsack [00:09:42]:
On the team, depending on the day, depending on the amount of equipment that they’re utilizing, and that really has to do with where they’re at in the stretch of road. You can have a Cowan, you can have a half dozen.
Scott Cowan [00:09:56]:
It it
Lauren Loebsack [00:09:57]:
it’s typically probably more like 5 or 6 people out there. Somebody, you know, when you’re first opening up those pathways, you have, a snow Scott and the snow cat is coming and knocking down the big slide piles, so that a loader can break them down a little bit more. And then a blower is essentially a giant snowblower that’s a truck. That blower means the the snow level to be less than 6 feet tall or 6 feet deep rather
Scott Cowan [00:10:31]:
Mhmm.
Lauren Loebsack [00:10:32]:
To be able to basically take a bite out of it. That’s the size of the of the blower face. And yeah.
Scott Cowan [00:10:39]:
So you’re telling me when you’re talking about snowblower, are you talking about, like, the ones that I see on Snoqualmie Pass? Is that the same? Okay. So it’s a a dump truck, if you will. Okay. The snowcat that you mentioned.
Lauren Loebsack [00:10:50]:
Yes.
Scott Cowan [00:10:51]:
You told you just said that the plow has to be 6 foot limit limit The blower. Yeah. Yeah. The blower. So how much snow are we talking that the snow Scott going through in a in a a normal type of year?
Lauren Loebsack [00:11:03]:
They’re breaking Cowan. So the piles that are coming up over the road so we’ve you know, sometime in November or December, we’ve closed that road down, and then those natural slides are happening it through those avalanche pathways. And some of those slides can be 20, 25 feet when they’re crossing the road, depending on just then how much has come down out of the mountain. And so that snowcat basically climbs up on top and starts breaking that snow Cowan. And that was my first ride in, washout equipment. Basically, was up there with the former avalanche control supervisor, and he was out there. And he he’s breaking it down and and he’s telling me, okay. So we’re gonna go to the edge.
Lauren Loebsack [00:11:48]:
They’re pushing the snow off the edge, and he goes, we wait to feel this little oomph, and that means we’ve gone to the edge of the road. And so you could really just see down deep into the crab, the ravine where they were pushing the snow, and I’m like, he goes, you feel that? Okay. Now we need to back up. He’s backing up, and I was looking at him and thinking, well, you know, 35 plus years of experience don’t get you. I’m probably good.
Scott Cowan [00:12:19]:
Yeah. You’re braver than I am. My gosh. Okay. Another question. So you closed the road down. Let’s just arbitrarily say early December, late November. It doesn’t not specific.
Scott Cowan [00:12:31]:
And then it’s closed down until late April, mid May ish on average. Is are there people going up there during winter to look at things just to see how things are going? Or is it you you close it down and it’s just, well, we’ll get back to you in March or, you know Right. What’s is there people up there to look at this?
Lauren Loebsack [00:12:53]:
Our crews, typically will, go start going in, we we have an official assessment day, which is, this year, it was March 5th.
Scott Cowan [00:13:04]:
Mhmm.
Lauren Loebsack [00:13:04]:
And that, again, is about considering conditions. Our crews come up to the area where the berm is to make sure that there’s not a vehicle there of somebody that has gone in and hasn’t come back out or something like that. But, typically, our teams are staying out of there in the depths of winter, unless there is some reason that we would need to be going in and checking on facilities. Okay. Yeah.
Scott Cowan [00:13:31]:
So we really do shut it down. I mean, it really is okay. It’s like a a summer cabin. We’re shutting it down for the winter and okay. So in March, you have your official first visit, and then you kind of build the the plan of attack for for the season. And snow Scott. And what was the second piece before,
Lauren Loebsack [00:13:51]:
a loader.
Scott Cowan [00:13:52]:
A loader.
Lauren Loebsack [00:13:53]:
Sometimes a rented dozer, like a d 8, depending on the amount of material that we’re talking about moving, a blower, and then plows. Wow. Yeah. It’s quite a caravan.
Scott Cowan [00:14:10]:
It is. And so you Scott 6 to a dozen people. So you might have 3 or 4 vehicles at a time working, you know, or maybe maybe more. But okay. And this takes this year, how long did the did the cleanup take this year?
Lauren Loebsack [00:14:25]:
Clearing started on March 25th. And, so we just had, like, about 3 full weeks, you know, and then this has been and then Monday, we did our avalanche control, which is typically kind of what we’re doing towards the end of things.
Scott Cowan [00:14:41]:
Right? Just
Lauren Loebsack [00:14:42]:
because that is a big, project to Cowan it we don’t have, like we have on US 2 Stevens Pass. We have established facilities for avalanche control. We have to bring in equipment to do that avalanche control. And it’s kind of one of the last things that we do prior to confirming the opening.
Scott Cowan [00:15:02]:
Now Wenatchee talked before this, you you mentioned that you were gonna get to go up there on on Monday. Mhmm. And you used the word howitzer.
Lauren Loebsack [00:15:09]:
Yes.
Scott Cowan [00:15:10]:
And I just wanna know, did they let you fire it?
Lauren Loebsack [00:15:14]:
That is pay grade probably isn’t right. They’re just You were
Scott Cowan [00:15:18]:
you were an honored guest, and they didn’t let you go. You you may take the shot?
Lauren Loebsack [00:15:23]:
No. No. No. They, and, actually, it’s, that’s a piece of equipment. They’re really, you know, for kind of obvious reasons, you know, we’re looking to get away from the use of, the howitzer, but, they they use it on Snoqualmie Pass as well, and that is and that’s a highly skilled team that has to take care of, you know, a really precious and important piece of equipment, and, it’s also, actually in some ways outdated. We have to do it at, the North Cascades as well because they are, they don’t have those established facilities. But now, like on US 2 Stevens Pass, where we have trams that drop like lollies and stuff. And it’s it’s like a small explosive that’s been specifically designed to go off at a particular, altitude.
Lauren Loebsack [00:16:21]:
So there’s way more delicacy and accuracy, that is allowed in that. The howitzer is, you know, Scott, it’s well, it’s accurate. It’s probably not as delicate. You know? So you’re just blunt instrument. Yes. And, and so they’re also there’s a lot going on in the world of avalanche, control, and, you know, probably next steps will be something that’s, you know, potentially, related to drones, you know, the that’s likely years off. That’s an experimental thing in Alaska. But when you talk to our avalanche control, they’re eager for that because you’ll be able to get that right into where you want it to be.
Scott Cowan [00:17:05]:
So with the howitzer, though, let’s let’s do do they send is somebody going up and siding where the we need that shell to go?
Lauren Loebsack [00:17:15]:
Yeah. So they’ve done that. Right. They’ve pre done that. They, we have our avalanche control crews. They go up there. They, they snowmobile to as far as they can go, and then they Scott hoof in to these places to take those measurements. They dig snow pits to, get an understanding of what the snow layers look like, because it doesn’t also need to happen necessarily every year.
Lauren Loebsack [00:17:39]:
Right? So you Scott calculate, do we move this big, huge piece of equipment? And and, you know, that’s, that’s really a, logistical consideration, and that is really about, like, what the conditions are. So, they’ve they know where they want to go. They they’ve spotted those, snow loads in the avalanche pathways, and they’re they’re going to very specific places.
Scott Cowan [00:18:06]:
So they’ve they’ve got a pinpoint target. We dial it in. We shoot a shell. Anything special off the shell?
Lauren Loebsack [00:18:15]:
Nope. So I mean, except for that, it’s, yeah, it’s a significant Yeah. It’s a significant yeah. 105 centimeter or something like that.
Scott Cowan [00:18:24]:
K. And And we sign our names on it. I’m just kidding. I was like, okay. So we shoot the shell, and it dislodges a bunch of snow. That’s in layman’s terms. Right? Am I right? So it Yes. The show the snow keep comes Cowan.
Lauren Loebsack [00:18:36]:
Yes.
Scott Cowan [00:18:36]:
Okay. And so did you witness that on Monday?
Lauren Loebsack [00:18:39]:
Yes.
Scott Cowan [00:18:39]:
So what was that like?
Lauren Loebsack [00:18:41]:
It was pretty amazing. We did not get so last year, I didn’t go up, of course. And they did, that work on, Spire Gulch, which is essentially the big u-turn leading up into the Liberty Bell shoots, and, Spyregault had a massive slide from that, and they got, you know, the results that they wanted. So this year, it was really about, making sure that it was, you know, shaken out of those, avalanche pathways up in the loading area. So you kind of saw that dark spot and maybe a little bit of movement, but you kind of needed binoculars to be able to really see it from there. But, the experience itself is, always, a reminder of, you know, the, the breadth of skills that, you know, our team has to have, and the the toolbox is just amazing.
Scott Cowan [00:19:39]:
I mean, yeah. I can’t imagine the job description for, you know, howitzer snow removal. Here’s my resume. I went to college for this. It just seems Yeah. Yeah. That would be something you would learn that on the
Lauren Loebsack [00:19:52]:
that would absolutely be a little bit on the
Scott Cowan [00:19:54]:
job Yes. Type of type of work. So as we’re opening tomorrow Mhmm. 10 AM?
Lauren Loebsack [00:20:02]:
Yep.
Scott Cowan [00:20:03]:
Okay. Not it’s already open, folks. You give it, you know, tomorrow 10 AM. Trumpets. What’s what’s the what’s the official what does the state do anything for opening it up?
Lauren Loebsack [00:20:11]:
There’s been it kind of depends on the year. And, there’s been years where, like, bands are up there playing music. There was a long tradition, Tootsie and her cinnamon rolls, that, was honored, with Tootsie’s family, last year as well. And, it is has a very festive vibe. People are excited to do it. It’s, you know, they’re obviously, the road is open for practical reasons, but it’s just sort of the romance of it. And the experience is really fun. It does have very festive air.
Lauren Loebsack [00:20:48]:
So, we, our crews do a final sweep, after daylight. You know, you gotta go back in. There’s still, snow up there. There’s there’s mud, you know, so we have to make sure that that road is clear. And, once that’s determined, we swing open the gates and folks start off. Usually, we get and there’s even usually, we’ll give the bikes a little bit of a heads up beef or the, the bicyclists that are there for the opening proper, a little bit of a head start, and then our, car we’ll have cars go through. So
Scott Cowan [00:21:23]:
so let’s talk about the bikes. Yeah. So one of the things I was reading is that there’s this misconception maybe that bikes there’s a an opening day for bikes.
Lauren Loebsack [00:21:38]:
Yep. I call it a persistent urban myth.
Scott Cowan [00:21:41]:
Okay.
Lauren Loebsack [00:21:41]:
And it it’s, it’s so first and foremost, that route is, I think, a federal bike route, I think bike route 10 or something like that for the very reasons that everybody likes to drive it to. It’s gorgeous. It’s it’s a beautiful, journey, whatever vehicle you’re in. But, over the years and this is probably the number one question that I get is, when is bike day? And, the the truth is is we wouldn’t open up the road for one mode prior before any other mode of travel. You know? Once the road is open and we say it’s safe for travel, it’s Cowan. But, folks have really, keyed in on, the time when the road has cleared been cleared, the roadway itself, and it’s still closed for repairs. Right? So sometimes that lines up, for example, this last year, this last weekend, 13th 14th, The road was technically cleared, on, like, Thursday night or Friday morning, and, so I was able to share with people on the newsletter and on social. You know, if if that’s what you wanna do, and to me, that’s a little chilly, and I don’t have the cardio for it.
Lauren Loebsack [00:23:03]:
But if that’s what you wanna do, this is the weekend to do it. And, just because I do understand that people, you know, I can see why you’d want to if that’s your thing. And, we wanna make that happen, but what’s really important to remember is that that’s not like a specific canonized day.
Scott Cowan [00:23:24]:
Right.
Lauren Loebsack [00:23:24]:
And, it just if the if the circumstances line up, then I try to let people know as best as possible. But during the week until we open, that’s a work zone, And particularly Wenatchee it’s open from, you know, the west side to the east side, there could be multiple crews moving in between there, and they’re moving in between there thinking they’re in a closed work zone. And, my fear is somebody’s biking and comes whipping around a corner and meets a grader or meets a truck, and, that would be terrible for everyone. Mhmm. And so, I probably can come across sometimes as a little bit humorless about it, but it’s an active work zone during the week, and so it’s like the bike day myth is is, we try to give people that opportunity to get that access, but it it really isn’t a bike day.
Scott Cowan [00:24:21]:
Not an officially sanctioned. Yeah. Now you mentioned the word repairs. Mhmm. And we’ve talked about cleaning. But in a typical average year, what sort of repairs are you looking at? Are guardrails getting knocked out by avalanches? Mhmm. The the the the highway itself, does it take a does the highway take more of a toll being just having the snow lit sit on it versus, say, Snoqualmie, which is being shoveled off and then drove driven over? I mean, how does the how does the highway itself hold up and what sort of repairs?
Lauren Loebsack [00:24:59]:
Right. So typically, the repairs are exactly that. The the snow has come down and it’s taken out, signage and a chunk of the guardrail and it, maybe has filled up the catch basins with mud and debris. That’s by and large, the repairs that we’re talking about. This year, we had a really good mudslide in Rainy Pass area about mile post 1 50 ish. And I mean, they have the, pile of material still. On the side of the road, it’s, it will be a mess that they’re continuing to clean up a little bit this spring. So, there’s a lot of that and that’s just natural.
Lauren Loebsack [00:25:38]:
So the and that really happens during that thawing phase, which is, you know, we’re remaining closed in till we see the worst of that pass because that’s a pain in the butt, but it would be terrible if there was a car in there with occupants in that, you know, and so that’s the reason for that closure. It’s it’s a safety reason. The roadway itself, I’d speculate that not being, treated with, deicers and not having heavy trucks running over it over the top of it during the worst of freeze, may actually protect the road surface. But our maintenance crews who have to crack sail might have a different opinion. They might they might
Scott Cowan [00:26:22]:
they might do it for okay. That’s that’s interesting. Because yeah. I mean, it it it could see both ways that, you know, it sits there not being not having all that weight put on by by trucks after trucks after truck. Alright. Approximately, what’s the highest elevation on the pass?
Lauren Loebsack [00:26:39]:
Oh, no. Oh, I should actually know this. Oh, I think Washington is 5,000. I just went right past this sign. I’m so sorry.
Scott Cowan [00:26:50]:
So it’s over 5,000?
Lauren Loebsack [00:26:52]:
Yes. Yes.
Scott Cowan [00:26:52]:
So it is, you know, approximately 1500 to 2000 feet higher than Snoqualmie?
Lauren Loebsack [00:26:58]:
Yes. Okay. Yep.
Scott Cowan [00:26:58]:
So it’s still gonna have weather because, I mean, it was pretty cold here in Wenatchee this morning when I got up. I mean, it’s like so
Lauren Loebsack [00:27:05]:
Yep. And it was pretty cold up there on Monday. Yeah. It when when the sun was out, you didn’t notice it. But when the sun went behind a cloud, my fingers were getting really cold and I was like, oh, it’s still winter. And, you know, that’s really something it’s not that we wait until winter has completely passed to reopen. So when people are, you know, they’re waiting at the gate on, Friday, they need to also appreciate that they’re driving through, you know, mountain passes that could still have winter conditions. And that’s something that, you know, in the excitement of it, I don’t want people to forget or I don’t want people to think that, oh, this is the acknowledgment that it’s spring.
Lauren Loebsack [00:27:49]:
And we’re just gonna go through on our tires that might not be prepared for it.
Scott Cowan [00:27:54]:
Take my my convertible out and, and pull the top Cowan.
Lauren Loebsack [00:27:59]:
Right. And
Scott Cowan [00:28:01]:
Alright. Oh, darn it. That was it goes
Lauren Loebsack [00:28:03]:
like Right.
Scott Cowan [00:28:04]:
You just ruined it for me.
Lauren Loebsack [00:28:05]:
Not quite. Not quite there.
Scott Cowan [00:28:07]:
Not quite yet. The 5,000 feet is a good clue. Good heater, but, yeah, no. It’s still not good. Alright. So I’m gonna ask you your now next few questions are your opinion. So any answers okay?
Lauren Loebsack [00:28:19]:
Alright.
Scott Cowan [00:28:20]:
So in your opinion, when’s the best time of year to go over the past?
Lauren Loebsack [00:28:26]:
I would say straight up midsummer. K. Right? But, being a Scorpio myself, I romanticize fall, and I would say there’s nothing better than going over there when over the past when the leaves are turning Mhmm. And you’ve got some red and some yellow. And, if you can pick a weekday, it’ll feel like you almost have it to yourself if it’s after Labor Day.
Scott Cowan [00:28:49]:
Mhmm.
Lauren Loebsack [00:28:49]:
It’s just gorgeous.
Scott Cowan [00:28:51]:
K. Which drive do you prefer, going eastbound or westbound?
Lauren Loebsack [00:28:59]:
That’s a good question. I actually typically only go westbound to visit my friend in Burlington, and then I’ll swing back around on, 2 to do the cascade loop. But I just went westbound this last summer, and I thought it was really gorgeous because you’re on, westbound, you’re on the Skagit Riverside, and you can see the Skagit River as you’re going, and that’s really gorgeous drive.
Scott Cowan [00:29:24]:
Okay. You can pick one spot to stop and look at the scenery. Where are you stopping?
Lauren Loebsack [00:29:32]:
Well, I like the Washington overlook. That is just, but there is, I would say the Ross Lake Trailhead is also just an incredible place to stop. The facilities are amazing too, so it’s a nice stop. Mhmm. And just the views are gonna blow your mind.
Scott Cowan [00:29:58]:
Right. Now you you you said facility. So let’s address those because as of right now Right. They’re not open.
Lauren Loebsack [00:30:06]:
Correct.
Scott Cowan [00:30:07]:
So if somebody’s gonna go over early in the season or even maybe late in the season, facilities aren’t open. So we’ve got about how many miles of no between services. I mean, Mazama’s got Mazama’s got a gas pump, so you could get gas in Mazama if you can afford it. And then we’re on the west side. It would be the next set of services.
Lauren Loebsack [00:30:30]:
Oh. Oh, gosh. I’m thinking I think that would be on the other side of Ross Lake Dam. Mhmm. So, really, there’s probably about 45 or 50 miles where cell phone is gonna be really unlikely, and you’re not going to have gas,
Scott Cowan [00:30:50]:
a
Lauren Loebsack [00:30:50]:
place to gas up. And, for the time being now, there’s not even really going to be probably very many places to pull over. Some of the lower altitude forest service, like parking lots, might be open like Early Winters and Silver Star. They were both Cowan, but the season for them hasn’t begun yet either. So and we don’t we don’t clear those trail heads. We don’t do that. So in, you know, we have a great relationship with our partners up there, but that is so understanding when you go, it’s gonna look like a a snow cut right behind the guardrail all the way.
Scott Cowan [00:31:30]:
Mhmm. Okay. I’m gonna give you an unlimited budget and complete control.
Lauren Loebsack [00:31:38]:
Finally. So Somebody thought
Scott Cowan [00:31:40]:
I’ve been heard. They’ve listened to me. What would you do to improve the North Cascades Highway? What and it doesn’t have to be Right. I’m not, you know but what what would make it it’s a beautiful it’s a beautiful drive. All these things are wonderful. But if it was just up to you, no budget, no nothing, what what would be the thing that we’d up there would be, like, if it had this or we did this, what what would make a big impact in your opinion? Unsanctioned by any organization, you know, this is.
Lauren Loebsack [00:32:18]:
Right. So, you know, actually, kind of the novelty is this trip that feels really like you’re going through a fantastical woods from the Lord of the Rings or, you know, Narnia, and you I, you know, I know people would be like, oh, they want larger parking areas at their favorite trailhead or, and I think that, you know, those will just always be full no matter what size you build them, and the the kind of the winding road and the, remoteness of it are part of its beauty and its specialness, and so, maybe I’m sounding maybe that’s, a cop out, but, I think it’s a a beautiful trip, and and I wouldn’t expand on anything in specifically, I guess, in that way. Yeah.
Scott Cowan [00:33:23]:
That’s fair. Yeah. Because you don’t want it to be if you put 4 lanes each direction and then we’re just buzzing through, you’re losing you’re not taking in the scenery and the the the iconic views and all of that. You’re just trying to get from one side of the the state to the other side. I I’m with you on that. I was just thinking maybe you’d, you know, ask for a Starbucks or something. No.
Lauren Loebsack [00:33:44]:
I know. For the little folks that have the coffee shops along the way, yeah, no, I would say stop at your local coffee stand, in concrete or Burlington before you, get going. And, I really like, you know, arriving in Mazama or Winthrop or Twist on the other side after the trip and and having that pit stop or getting that sandwich, you know, and, if,
Scott Cowan [00:34:12]:
it it it’s just such
Lauren Loebsack [00:34:13]:
a fun experience. You know, I think, oh, maybe, you know, great glass elevators so you could see all the way up or something like that. Oh, that’d be kinda cool. You know, but But
Scott Cowan [00:34:21]:
then it also turns it into more of a of a a high profile tourist location, and and and then comes all the other inherent challenges of it. Okay. Alright. So what’s a misconception about the North Cascades Highway that the public doesn’t know about in your opinion?
Lauren Loebsack [00:34:40]:
A misconception is that it is just for tourism, and it certainly does serve tourism, and and should. It’s a beautiful place to recreate. It, links, you know, the community of Mazama and Winthrop, you know, to, the west side in a much more functional way. You can actually get there without eating a whole day on the road. But it is, incredibly useful for that community as well, driving westward to medical appointments, and for freight, particularly timber. And so that is really something that, I think, you know, we try to be cognizant of of all the users and understanding that, there are, you know, some economic, components to that. And I, you know, want people to I don’t wanna scare people away or ruin it, but there is freight on that Cowan. And and that’s an important component of that route.
Scott Cowan [00:35:44]:
Okay. You mentioned coffee, so I’m gonna ask them to put you on the spot. I always ask the very guest. Where’s a great place to get coffee. Now we’re we’re sitting in Wenatchee. Yeah. So if you say a place in Wenatchee that surprises me, that bad bad on me. Where, in your opinion, is a great place to get a cup of coffee? And I’m gonna change the rules on you.
Lauren Loebsack [00:36:03]:
Okay.
Scott Cowan [00:36:04]:
Because you mentioned a couple of other communities. So I’ll I will let you include anywhere on the North Cascades Highway in your you know? So I’m gonna I’ll open it up, and I’ll give you because because, actually, my favorite coffee company in Washington State’s in Twisp.
Lauren Loebsack [00:36:21]:
Okay. Yeah.
Scott Cowan [00:36:22]:
You know? So where where do you where do you recommend?
Lauren Loebsack [00:36:26]:
So I love Blue Star Coffee.
Scott Cowan [00:36:28]:
Oh, they’re the best. If that’s what
Lauren Loebsack [00:36:29]:
you’re talking about.
Scott Cowan [00:36:31]:
They’re the best.
Lauren Loebsack [00:36:33]:
So yes. That’s just I mean, that’s part of
Scott Cowan [00:36:36]:
part of yeah. It’s they’re the best. I I love Blue Star Coffee. And anywhere that serves it is is a good place for me.
Lauren Loebsack [00:36:43]:
Yep. Yep. I go down and get my bag of beans at Columbia Cafe down
Scott Cowan [00:36:47]:
at Okay. So what’s okay. We’re talking North Star Coffee. Mhmm. What what’s the what’s the bean of choice?
Lauren Loebsack [00:36:54]:
Their espresso roast? Oh. Yeah. I I I like really dark coffee. Yeah. I’ve done like to put a lot of cream and sugar. So it’s a whole thing. But, yeah, I I just like that dark
Scott Cowan [00:37:09]:
Okay. Roast. Have you been to their new location in Twist?
Lauren Loebsack [00:37:15]:
No. I drove by it.
Scott Cowan [00:37:17]:
Yeah. It it’s very nice. But I kinda miss the the the little,
Lauren Loebsack [00:37:23]:
you know, the
Scott Cowan [00:37:25]:
but the last time I was there, there was 2 guys out front selling donuts that were home not homemade, but they’re they’re a little twist based donut shop.
Lauren Loebsack [00:37:34]:
Okay.
Scott Cowan [00:37:35]:
And, yeah,
Lauren Loebsack [00:37:35]:
it was like Keep talking.
Scott Cowan [00:37:36]:
Yeah. It’s like They were they were outstanding. I can’t think of their name, and they were, dare I say, if I’m being honest, better than the coffee. Oh. They were they were that good. Wow. They were yeah. And they’d mentioned, you know, that they’re at the Twist Farmers Market, and I don’t know that new location’s got space.
Scott Cowan [00:38:02]:
Maybe who I’m who knows? Nudge. Nudge. They’ll have a home Listen. Yeah. They’ll have a home base. But yeah. No. Okay.
Scott Cowan [00:38:12]:
So so
Lauren Loebsack [00:38:13]:
Wait. What kind of doughnut was it?
Scott Cowan [00:38:15]:
It was a cake doughnut with, raspberry glaze from their garden. Wow. Yeah. No. It was really it was very cool. And they had these really kind of eclectic choices, and they were not they were not the, like, super overtly, like, Krispy Kreme. Here’s here’s 10 grams of sugar for you. Mhmm.
Scott Cowan [00:38:39]:
No. They were more of a artisanal doughnut, if you will. And Yeah. It was yeah. They were they were they’re quite delicious.
Lauren Loebsack [00:38:47]:
Yeah. Might have to take, I had Scott of declined, heading up for the actual opening day. I need to clear my calendar.
Scott Cowan [00:38:56]:
If there’s donuts. Alright. So you like you like Blue Star Coffee. Is there another coffee, place? Because I’m you know, I can drink coffee from anywhere. But so anywhere else on the on the highway that you’ve found an interesting coffee?
Lauren Loebsack [00:39:11]:
So actually, on the other side, and I wish I could remember the name of the coffee shop, it’s just off the side of the road, and it’s east of concrete and I can’t think of the name, but they had a really great latte and I wish I could think of it. Typically, so I didn’t get into coffee until we had our time, teleworking from home during the pandemic. I didn’t even really drink caffeine until then. And then I think just out of boredom of like being in my house all day, I picked up the coffee habit. And so it’s for me, it’s really about like my dorky little pour over and making this whole thing. So I
Scott Cowan [00:39:51]:
There’s nothing dorky about that.
Lauren Loebsack [00:39:52]:
Typically don’t get coffee when I’m out and about. I just usually make it for myself.
Scott Cowan [00:39:57]:
Okay. But when you go out and you’re gonna have a coffee, what’s what’s the go to safe order for you?
Lauren Loebsack [00:40:02]:
I if depending on the coffee, I’ll take some drip, and I’ll just put a sugar and a creamer in it.
Scott Cowan [00:40:07]:
Okay. Yeah. Alright. Solid. I mean, with Blue Star, it’s super Right. Super solid. Yeah. What do you think of their highway 20 blend?
Lauren Loebsack [00:40:14]:
Oh, that’s good. That’s good. They they so they’re all great. And I recently learned that the dark roast don’t necessarily carry a bigger caffeine punch. So, you know, but I’ve just gotten on this jag of the dark roast, but their their highway twenty is, if I can remember now, I’m trying to sort it out because they have another one that I recently got that had, like, a little bit of a berry flavor.
Scott Cowan [00:40:40]:
The morning?
Lauren Loebsack [00:40:41]:
Yeah. The morning star?
Scott Cowan [00:40:43]:
Yeah. I think that was what it was. Yeah.
Lauren Loebsack [00:40:44]:
Yeah. I think I’m thinking of the morning Star, actually.
Scott Cowan [00:40:46]:
Yeah. Alright. So alright. Once again, for this episode, we’re gonna bend the rules a little bit. You mentioned earlier also, you know, like sandwich on when I want so where’s a great place to grab lunch on off of highway 20?
Lauren Loebsack [00:41:03]:
I would say the Twist Bakery.
Scott Cowan [00:41:05]:
Oh. Yeah. Okay.
Lauren Loebsack [00:41:07]:
Yeah. It’s, it’s there. And so it really, yeah. They they’ve got good bread is
Scott Cowan [00:41:16]:
Okay.
Lauren Loebsack [00:41:16]:
Is the start. Yeah.
Scott Cowan [00:41:18]:
So so what would you have? What would what would you be your
Lauren Loebsack [00:41:24]:
any old sandwich.
Scott Cowan [00:41:25]:
Any old sandwich?
Lauren Loebsack [00:41:26]:
Yeah. I’m trying to think of what I had there last time. Might have been turkey. Okay. Yeah.
Scott Cowan [00:41:30]:
So just Half sandwich. Okay.
Lauren Loebsack [00:41:33]:
Can’t go wrong. Can’t go wrong?
Scott Cowan [00:41:35]:
Yeah. What about on the other side? Because that’s so with the show, you know, we talked to people across the stage. Right. I will acknowledge that while Bellingham gets a lot of our attention, Between Bellingham and Everett, we I don’t wanna say we ignore. I don’t mean like that. We just haven’t gone out and really done a really great job of experiencing that section of the state. So I’m looking for any tips that you can throw me.
Lauren Loebsack [00:42:02]:
That is a little bit of a blind spot for me. And I’ll tell you why it’s interesting for me is I usually like to pack a lunch, like a picnic when I go over 20, and then I find my place and that’s my like, hang out for a little while, and I’m chilling, and I’m having my picnic or whatever. Because as I said, I do that, cascade loop essentially when I take it, and so I’ll go down and then do US 2 Stevens on the way back. And, I will recommend Zeke’s for a sandwich if you’re going that way.
Scott Cowan [00:42:33]:
Okay.
Lauren Loebsack [00:42:33]:
Yeah. It’s in gold bar ish. Yeah. So that’s the, that’s the, where I’m picking up lunch.
Scott Cowan [00:42:39]:
She’s on Zeke’s.
Lauren Loebsack [00:42:39]:
Yeah. Okay. Alright. No. That’s Looping around and hitting Zeke’s on the way back.
Scott Cowan [00:42:44]:
Alright. Alright. That’s that’s solid. What, if anything, do you know about the cascade loop as far as can you speak can I put you on the spot speaking relatively comfortably? And, like, who came up with this idea?
Lauren Loebsack [00:42:57]:
Oh, right. Actually, that was something I was like, oh, somebody told me about that. And I just was being attentive to signage as trying to be a good communicator for, you know, WASH Dot. So that is a separate designation. And, the it’s, the I’m trying to think of the term. Yeah. The scenic highway. So there’s designations that are state scenic highway designations and designations that are federal state highway designations.
Lauren Loebsack [00:43:30]:
And, I think until very recently, the loop wasn’t a fully federal scenic highway designation. And that’s been something that’s just happened in the last few years. But, that’s not my actual expertise, I would say. And from traveling from Wenatchee though, that does sort of technically start depending on where you wanna go at Pateras at SR 1 53. Right? So 153 is what goes from that junction of 97 and connects up, in near twist 220. Mhmm. You can also go up to Okanagan Yep. And hang a left at that point.
Lauren Loebsack [00:44:12]:
And
Scott Cowan [00:44:12]:
go over loop loop?
Lauren Loebsack [00:44:13]:
Yeah. Yeah. And well, that would is Loop Loop, on the east side of,
Scott Cowan [00:44:19]:
if you go up to Okanagan and head over to Twist, you’re gonna go over Loop Loop Yeah. Which is fun. Yes. It’s a fun little it’s a I remember the first time I drove that, I was like, oh, this is this
Lauren Loebsack [00:44:30]:
is really cool. My area 3 crew is
Scott Cowan [00:44:31]:
gonna Yeah. A lot of fire.
Lauren Loebsack [00:44:33]:
Gonna have some comments for me about not
Scott Cowan [00:44:35]:
That’s okay. That’s alright. This is this is unofficial. This is, you know, you’re not on duty. Alright. So you want you think summer or fall is the best time? Okay. You’re drinking good coffee. What is the last question about the the highway itself.
Scott Cowan [00:44:55]:
In your opinion, what’s the best way to go over the past? Is it driver or a passenger?
Lauren Loebsack [00:45:00]:
Oh, the passenger. I finally had that opportunity last summer for the first time in many years. And it was so wonderful because I’ve noticed when I drive and I try to keep myself awake of that is I’m the one that’s slowing down and people are needing me to either go the speed limit or get out of the way. And, because it’s just
Scott Cowan [00:45:26]:
Are you hanging out the window with the camera trying to take a photo
Lauren Loebsack [00:45:29]:
too? No. No. No. No. I I do try to travel safely. I do try to I I, do practice what I preach in that regard, but it is it’s just so the problem being is it’s not just what’s right in front of you because, the forest is very close and tall. So you’re wanting to do that looky loo, you know, get your neck out there so that you can really see the peaks and, see the sky against those peaks. And so, had that pleasure last summer, and it was that was a great trip.
Lauren Loebsack [00:46:04]:
And and that was in that was the westbound trip during the summer. So that’s been my most recent pass over it, and it was a great time.
Scott Cowan [00:46:11]:
Okay. Alright. As we wrap this up, couple more things. Mhmm. What didn’t I ask you that I should have? What what didn’t we talk about about the North Cascades Highway that as from Washington State Department of Transportation, you wanna get out there to the audience.
Lauren Loebsack [00:46:26]:
Yeah. There is a narrow window of time for us to do work on that road then. You know, we talked a little bit about, the repairs that we make before we open it, but, there’s still, there is, you know, everything from pavement repair to, fish passage projects. And so, particularly, obviously, on the west side. And so understanding that you’re probably going to encounter a construction zone along the way. It’s not, it’s a shorter trip, but not necessarily a fast trip. Mhmm. So, realizing that there is a lot of travelers, they’re hauling their RVs and, there’s freight going through there.
Lauren Loebsack [00:47:09]:
So, you know, make that crossing, because it makes sense to you or because you want to enjoy it, but not because you’re trying to quote, unquote, make good time.
Scott Cowan [00:47:20]:
Okay.
Lauren Loebsack [00:47:20]:
And the best way to check-in on that schedule, because I I I feel for folks when you’ll see it it’s clearly a club that’s taken their really fun, like, antique corvettes out or something, and then those poor folks are parked in line needing to take it through a chip seal. Right? And and we don’t have that necessarily scheduled in stone, at the beginning of the season, and so it’s really important to be checking in on our travel map, and we have that information on our app. You know, if you’re taking your your beautiful antique car or something, You know, be thoughtful about the fact that there’s probably gonna be a work zone. And if you wanna figure out if it’s a work zone you’re willing to drive through, definitely check out our travel maps where those k. Things are posted.
Scott Cowan [00:48:16]:
Where’s a great place to direct people online? And I’ll put it in the show notes too. So just
Lauren Loebsack [00:48:22]:
right. So, I would say it’s, wsdot.com. And then from there, mountain passes and travel map.
Scott Cowan [00:48:31]:
Right. And I use the app on my phone all the time, and it’s it’s it’s wonderful.
Lauren Loebsack [00:48:35]:
It’s it’s it’s it’s few apps.
Scott Cowan [00:48:37]:
It’s one of the few apps that I use. I use my phone to make calls and take pictures, and I use the use your app. Other than that, I don’t do much else on my phone. So
Lauren Loebsack [00:48:46]:
I think I yeah. And I I am very much that person. I’m probably aging myself at that. I I like the transition to apps. I’m like I don’t want another app on my phone or whatever but this is actually an app that I use it brought me around to the concept of apps because I was, like, so resistant. And then when I saw actually how, like, it it really gets you the information that you need. It’s really useful.
Scott Cowan [00:49:08]:
It’s really it’s it’s really designed well. Alright. So when you’re not doing communications for the Washington State Department of Transportation, what do you do for fun? Why do you you you Waterville, for those of you who don’t know, is 25 miles outside of Wenatchee, small little community. I can’t even call it a town anymore. It’s just a kind of a community Scott. It’s a beautiful, but
Lauren Loebsack [00:49:30]:
We’re technically incorporated. Okay.
Scott Cowan [00:49:32]:
Alright. Yes. And you’re the and it’s the county seat too. So alright. So I just said, okay. I no offense, Waterville. But you stayed in the Wenatchee Valley area your your life. What do you like to do here? Why why why are you staying? Not that you shouldn’t I’m not asking you to justify it, but, like, what
Lauren Loebsack [00:49:50]:
are the draws
Scott Cowan [00:49:51]:
for you?
Lauren Loebsack [00:49:52]:
First and foremost, I just I had an idyllic childhood in Waterville. It’s a wonderful community, surrounded by, you know, family and friends, and then I really you know, when everybody’s young, or, you know, when I was young, maybe that itch, but I never really pulled the trigger on leaving the community. I’ve been on trips outside of the country and outside this area, but this was really a bloom where you’re planted kind of experience. I, love just the beauty of the area. I love being this close to nature. So in my opinion, you’re about a half an hour from anything that you’d wanna do outside, water ski, snow ski, hike, bike. Mhmm. There’s wildflowers, you know, the the foothills trails, bring me so much joy and peace, and it’s just one tiny component of what we have here.
Lauren Loebsack [00:50:50]:
We have, you know, it it it’s just an incredible, place to be for that variety of outdoor recreation, which, I really enjoy, and just also that community feel that I experience.
Scott Cowan [00:51:08]:
Yeah. Where’s your go to skiing place? Mission. Mission?
Lauren Loebsack [00:51:12]:
All day long. Yeah. Yeah. It’s, I skied for years at Badger mountain, which is up in Waterville. And, my dad still drives the snow Scott to groom that hill. And, that’s kind of his, like, he loves to do that. And, I did not get up skiing there. I think the Wenatchee weekend or so that it was open this year.
Lauren Loebsack [00:51:31]:
But, a few years ago, my friend, her daughter started, on the Mission Ridge ski team, and I would ride the ski link to go have lunch. And she was like, why aren’t you skiing?
Scott Cowan [00:51:44]:
Okay. And I
Lauren Loebsack [00:51:45]:
was like, well, why aren’t I? My skis were 30 years old or whatever. And and so they cobbled together some gear for me and I’ve been having a season pass and going almost every day. It’s open ever since.
Scott Cowan [00:51:59]:
So you’re a skier, not a snowboarder?
Lauren Loebsack [00:52:01]:
Not a snowboarder.
Scott Cowan [00:52:02]:
So it’s so interesting to me. I’m much older than you. Okay. I’m much older than you. Yes. Just agree with me. And when as a kid, you know, everybody skied. There was snowboard.
Scott Cowan [00:52:11]:
I don’t even know if snowboarding was a thing really.
Lauren Loebsack [00:52:13]:
Yeah.
Scott Cowan [00:52:14]:
And now it seems like it’s the it’s the opposite. Everybody’s snowboarding. And it’s kinda refreshing to hear, oh, I like to go down on
Lauren Loebsack [00:52:23]:
skis. I like to ski.
Scott Cowan [00:52:24]:
Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Lauren Loebsack [00:52:25]:
That’s how I learned and, I Have
Scott Cowan [00:52:27]:
you tried snowboarding?
Lauren Loebsack [00:52:28]:
I have snowboarded a few times. I I kinda have that personality where if I’m not good at it, like immediately, and I don’t have to do it.
Scott Cowan [00:52:37]:
It’s it’s terrible. It’s terrible. This sucks. I’m not gonna do it. Yeah.
Lauren Loebsack [00:52:41]:
So, like, I don’t fall down as much. I mean, I ski. So Okay.
Scott Cowan [00:52:46]:
Alright. Alright. Alright. So I’m gonna wrap up with the last question. Well, actually, that’s not true. Well, we’re gonna put the links to every you know, the best links I can find for the audience to find out more about Washington State Department of Transportation and the mountain passes. I’ll put that in the show. Awesome.
Scott Cowan [00:53:00]:
Thank you. Okay. So here’s the last question. You can’t skip it. You have to answer it. Very important. And it’s one or the other, and you have to give you a reason why. Alright? Cake or pie, and why?
Lauren Loebsack [00:53:16]:
Pie, because you because lemon meringue pie is probably my favorite dessert ever. My mother makes an incredible one, and I it’s the one thing dessert I’ve learned how to make, so
Scott Cowan [00:53:30]:
Okay.
Lauren Loebsack [00:53:31]:
Yeah. Pie. An apple pie.
Scott Cowan [00:53:33]:
I was gonna say k because, like, here we are when Ashley did not say apple. Pie
Lauren Loebsack [00:53:37]:
and yet. No.
Scott Cowan [00:53:39]:
There’s there’s no wrong answer here. There’s no wrong answer here. It’s really we ask it every episode. It’s fun to watch the people’s reactions. Some people are like, are you asking me to pick my favorite child? I can’t. Other people are like, it’s it’s pie, and you’re wrong about cake. It’s no. Vice versa.
Scott Cowan [00:54:00]:
Everyone’s got their own lemon rang hasn’t come up much lately.
Lauren Loebsack [00:54:05]:
It’s a tricky one.
Scott Cowan [00:54:06]:
It and it’s delicious. So I I do not like anything pumpkin. Pumpkin is it’s wrong.
Lauren Loebsack [00:54:14]:
I don’t care for pumpkin pie.
Scott Cowan [00:54:15]:
No. It’s wrong. And what I’m really pleased with, and I don’t know if I put out that vibe or not, but people don’t say pumpkin.
Lauren Loebsack [00:54:22]:
It validates me. You’re like, you’re right.
Scott Cowan [00:54:25]:
Yeah. I know. It’s just like, oh. But I will say, you know, pie seems to be the winner in amongst the audience, at least amongst the guests. And I will say lemon has come up a couple of times, but not not a lot lately. So thank you. Thank you for sitting down with me. I appreciate this.
Scott Cowan [00:54:45]:
I’ve learned more about North Cascades Highway. I think it’s I think it’s nice that we are able to take the time to talk about it in a little bit more detail. I was watching some of the blurbs that came out about it opening on Friday, and they were just really condensed. Yeah. And it was I think it’s nice that if somebody chooses to listen to this, they’re gonna know a whole lot more about the highway. And and thank you for taking the time.
Lauren Loebsack [00:55:06]:
Thank you so much. It’s so nice to not have to limit it to a tweet.
