Eric Phillips Chief Commercial Officer of Schilling Hard Cider joins us for this episode.

Eric tells us the story of Schilling Hard Cider. Schilling is the largest Cider producer in Washington State. Schilling opened in 2013 and currently is in a 36,000 sq ft manufacturing space and will be adding an additional 90,000 sq ft of manufacturing space.

The original Schilling Ciders were a dry hopped cider. They also had a Ginger Cider, and and Oak Aged Cider. Since then they have expanded to having over a dozen different flavors with more on the way.

You know I love coffee! you have to hear the story of Grumpy Bear a nitro cold brew coffee cider! To me this sounds amazing! Alas, Schilling no longer makes the cider…….

Schilling Hard Cider was the first to can cider on the west coast. They have made the decision to sell in can vs. bottle for many reasons. Eric shares the reasoning during our conversation.

Currently Schilling has two tap houses open. One in Seattle and one in Portland. The tap houses provide a great way for the company to test products to see how the market will react.

Schilling also makes Hard Yerba Mate named Wavelike and has three flavors Mango, Lemon-Lime, and Guava.

If you like cider you will find this episode to be full of great information about cider and how Schilling bring innovative cider to the market. Listen now.

You can checkout Schilling Hard Cider by visiting their website here.

Eric Phillips Schilling Hard Cider Episode Transcript

Scott Cowan [00:00:00]:

Yeah. Except us in Portland, man. We were Washington state’s show, and we jokingly say Portland’s dead to us. But Welcome to the Exploring Washington State podcast. Here’s your host, Scott Cowan. Alright, folks. Welcome back to the Exploring Washington State podcast. My guest today is Eric Phillips with Schilling Cider.

Scott Cowan [00:00:38]:

Eric, I’m gonna let you say what your official job title is because, you know, we’ll go from there. But, yeah. You went to Linfield? I’m on your LinkedIn. You went to Linfield University.

Eric Phillips [00:00:48]:

Yeah. It’s now actually, when I went, this will this will date me, but when I went, it was called Linfield College.

Scott Cowan [00:00:54]:

Well, when I went to college, it was Linfield College. So, yeah, it’s like

Eric Phillips [00:00:57]:

Oh, okay.

Scott Cowan [00:00:58]:

Okay. So back in the day, I didn’t go there. Okay. But but, sports wise, you guys played Central Washington University. So that’s how that’s how I know the name. So Yeah. Anyway.

Eric Phillips [00:01:06]:

Yeah. Play some rugby against them and, get good times.

Scott Cowan [00:01:09]:

See, we didn’t have rugby back then. You know? Yes. So that’s cool that they brought rugby in. That’s our Yeah.

Eric Phillips [00:01:16]:

Well Yeah. We’re we’re

Scott Cowan [00:01:17]:

not here to talk college athletics, but we could, I guess. But anyway

Eric Phillips [00:01:20]:

Here again.

Scott Cowan [00:01:21]:

So you’re with Schilling Cider. Why don’t you give our audience just, like, the quick and dirty overview of what your job title is, what you do, and then we’ll go from there.

Eric Phillips [00:01:30]:

Great. Thanks again for, you know, the invite and we’re really excited, just to be able to tell people more about Shilling Cider in general and, you know, super pleased to be here. So my official title, these days is chief commercial officer. I had to think about that. So I’m the chief commercial officer. So I oversee our sales and marketing departments, those two verticals. And, you know, kind of my day to day is a lot of different things, but really, you know, is to take out the roadblocks for the rest of our team so they can be successful in their in their roles. That’s a lot of what I view my role is doing is trying to connect the dots and help take out the roadblocks so people in the company can be successful and and support them in their growth within the company as well.

Scott Cowan [00:02:19]:

Alright. Well, let’s we’re gonna talk about you first, and we’ll transition in transition into Schilling. How did you how did you start your career with with Schilling?

Eric Phillips [00:02:28]:

Great question. I started, I think, about it’s gotta be eight or nine years now. I’d have to look on the calendar, but I won’t waste our time doing that. I started actually at the cider house. So, through some mutual friends, so some people from Lynnfield and and in a, in a personal relationship I was in at that time, I started meeting some different people who had different connections to Shilling Cider and through that I actually I worked at this restaurant down in South Lake Union, helped them open it up and then it come through that connection. Some people who were familiar with Shilling came in. The two cofounders at different times had come into the restaurant. I never made exact connections with them.

Eric Phillips [00:03:11]:

But then I saw this job posting. So I was a public school teacher. That’s what my first career was as a public school Spanish teacher. And then, you know, I wanna see what else is available. So I did this restaurant thing and started kinda making these connections. And then I saw this job posting, and I applied for it. And I was totally not didn’t have the skill set. You know? Totally underqualified.

Eric Phillips [00:03:32]:

You know? Not even under. Just completely not qualified for the job. I applied anyway. Right? As anyone listening, you should definitely do that from time to time because it worked out for me.

Scott Cowan [00:03:41]:

Well, and what and what’s the worst that’s gonna happen? Oh, Paul. Yeah. Alright.

Eric Phillips [00:03:44]:

Hey. That’s exactly it. Right? They can say no. Like, they’re already saying no, but you’re not applying. Right? Right. So I applied for this job, and it was for an assistant cider maker position. And I had made cider on my own, with with my college roommate after college. And we were having a good time with that.

Eric Phillips [00:04:01]:

So I said, you know, what the heck? I don’t know where they’re at. Let’s try and figure this out. So I went in for an interview and, you know, I I just told them, I said, hey. Here are my samples. And we tried them out. And they were nice enough to try them and, you know, comment on a couple of them. Like, yeah. These are these are good.

Eric Phillips [00:04:15]:

I was like, okay. That’s great. You guys do this as a profession. And I just said, you know, hey. I’m gonna be really honest with you. It’s kind of my m o. I just said, I’m not qualified for this job, but I’m excited about your guys’ company. I’m excited about this.

Eric Phillips [00:04:30]:

But I also know that you have a job or not a job opening. You have a cider house that you’re opening that hasn’t opened up yet. I’m actually qualified for that. Are there any openings? And one of the first things, and this kind of goes into probably we’ll dive into this later, but it was kind of my first understanding of the foundational, like, who Shilling is as a company, who the company is, the company culture, and that kind of thing. And that’s it started that day actually, my first day. And I remember very clearly, Colin Shilling, the cofounder said, hey. Actually, I’m not hiring for that. Our GM is.

Eric Phillips [00:05:05]:

And I went, okay. He’s already delegated. He already believes that this person is the right person for that job. That person’s hiring. So the next day, I think, or the day after, I was in touch with that person, and that person hired me on the spot to be the assistant general manager. K. I was like, alright. I am in.

Eric Phillips [00:05:22]:

Like, this I’m gonna figure this out. So, open up help that person open up the cider house, in Fremont. So we have two locations now. We have the, 32 tap cider house in Fremont. And we have the 50 tap cider house down in Portland. I would encourage anyone who is at all interested or even has thought about trying cider to go there first. They’re the largest tap houses of cider in the nation. Like, maybe the world.

Eric Phillips [00:05:49]:

I’ve been to a couple other places, but they don’t have 50 taps of cider. And it’s just cider and gluten free menus. So Okay. That’s helpful for people.

Scott Cowan [00:05:57]:

Yeah. Except just in Portland, man. We were Washington state show, and we joke and we say Portland’s dead to us. But

Eric Phillips [00:06:02]:

that’s fair.

Scott Cowan [00:06:03]:

We’ll give you a pass. You know? Come on. We’ll give you a pass.

Eric Phillips [00:06:05]:

You can you can take the train. I mean, the train is beautiful. I will say that.

Scott Cowan [00:06:08]:

Alright. Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Phillips [00:06:09]:

But Alright. Fremont. Go to Fremont. Us us Washingtonians will go to Fremont.

Scott Cowan [00:06:13]:

Go to Fremont, folks.

Eric Phillips [00:06:14]:

Fremont’s great. So on that note, I I applied, you know, I applied for that job, get hired. We opened the cider house in in Fremont. And, and then through a couple different transitions, I said, hey. I wanna grow the company. And, you know, so I became I’ll just list it off so I won’t bore everyone. But then I was after the AGM at the cider house, I was a sales rep in the Washington market, and then I took I moved to Texas for six months to get the state launched. And then I came back and took over more sales, and then I took over, marketing as well.

Eric Phillips [00:06:48]:

So that’s where we we are today.

Scott Cowan [00:06:50]:

So one question that Yeah. I mean, besides teasing about Portland, which I I can’t do. That’s that’s just that’s not fair. But you said you went to Texas. So how many states is Schilling currently selling cider in?

Eric Phillips [00:07:01]:

Yeah. We’re in about 20 states. You know, I I always say we we do a we do a ballpark business in less than that, but we’re excited about the investment that we have in those markets and long term growth opportunities.

Scott Cowan [00:07:14]:

Okay. Is is Washington state your largest market?

Eric Phillips [00:07:18]:

It is. Yeah. Washington state’s our largest largest market. Actually, if you break down cider and you look at the dollar sales data that’s available through Nielsen or available through IRI to syndicated sourcing avenues. You, will see that Washington per capita is the highest cider, and then it’s Oregon. Actually, the Pacific Northwest, basically, you can I don’t wanna get too into the weeds on it, but the Pacific Northwest has the largest cider consumption by dollars spent Wow? In the entire nation. So it’s, you know, kind of the cider mecca.

Scott Cowan [00:07:49]:

Okay. Alright. So you had this journey to now now you’re the chief commercial officer, and your job is to get, you know, knocked down roadblocks for everybody. Because there’s no roadblocks in business, man. It’s all easy, and and there’s, you know, there’s no no, you know, no bureaucracies you have to deal with and I kid and all that. So let’s talk about Schilling Cider. How how did that start? Because the name is kind of a familiar name. So there’s a little, I think, a historical, you know, family lineage there.

Scott Cowan [00:08:18]:

But, how did Schilling get started? And and let’s talk about the journey there.

Eric Phillips [00:08:24]:

Yeah. Absolutely. So Colin Schilling, his great great grandfather. So Colin Schilling is the cofounder with Mark Kornai. And I’ll tell you about their story here in a second. But Okay. We’re gonna go back a couple decades. So in 1886,

Scott Cowan [00:08:42]:

Colin Centuries, man. That’s a couple centuries, not decades.

Eric Phillips [00:08:45]:

No. My you you got my joke. So, so in 1886, Colin’s great great grandfather, August Schilling, started the Schilling spice company. And he you know? And, you know, I I know some of the stories, not a telephone. But at one point, he actually worked worked with AJ Folgers from Folgers Coffee.

Scott Cowan [00:09:09]:

Okay.

Eric Phillips [00:09:10]:

They split ways, and they did their different things. And and the basis, as I understand it, is August Shilling wanted to create high quality product, spices,

Scott Cowan [00:09:20]:

Eric Phillips [00:09:21]:

a consumer friendly price point. And that’s a lot of you know, we we also, you know, talk about that too where we’re at as a company.

Scott Cowan [00:09:28]:

Mhmm.

Eric Phillips [00:09:28]:

And so, you know, fast forward. So Colin, you know, had made cider, probably, before he could legally drink it. No. In Idaho. Right? Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:09:40]:

No.

Eric Phillips [00:09:40]:

Yeah. Yeah. You get it. And, and so in Idaho, you know, he grew up and he he was making cider as, you know, for gifts and as a hobby and that kind of thing. And then, he he went to Willamette, down, a state that won’t be named, I guess, on this podcast.

Scott Cowan [00:09:56]:

And Oregon.

Eric Phillips [00:09:58]:

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. The Voldemort. Right? Down there, he went to Willamette, and then so did Mark Corny. And that’s where they met. They met in college Okay. In in grad school, and then they, one of the other, key members, one of the other owners, also met in grad school.

Eric Phillips [00:10:15]:

And so Mark and Colin founded the company in, like, kind of April ish of twenty thirteen.

Scott Cowan [00:10:23]:

Okay.

Eric Phillips [00:10:24]:

And they started it in their garage, in their place in Queen Anne that they were renting. They started there. And you can actually line you can see, from Fremont, basically, that house. You know? Okay. The Fremont facility, which is really cool. So that’s where the the business started. And then we there was a production facility, prior to the one that we’re currently in, which is our our main headquarters, about a mile away, like less than about a half mile away. And it started there, and then we just expanded into this space.

Eric Phillips [00:10:54]:

And, you know, a note on it, I think is kind of interesting is I think there’s sometimes you can name something because you’re egotistical. The The reason that it was Schilling Cider at that point because the name in grocery was familiar, and there was an easy route to market. You know? And calling me the first one to tell you, he’s like, dude. If we did it again, I would not put my name on it. But here we are, and we’re, you know, we’re excited about it. And I think it’s, you know, again, a testament to who we are as a company, and what we’re doing.

Scott Cowan [00:11:21]:

So Well, it’s interesting that you say that though because there there is that you know, you hear the name and you’re like, I know that there’s something rattling around in my brain, and I don’t know what it was. And then you also, oh, okay. So there but there actually was a a family connection going going way, way back.

Eric Phillips [00:11:38]:

Yeah. And it’s kinda interesting because you talk with a certain generation, right, and they are very familiar with the Schilling spices. Then other people, you get a blank stare and you go McCormick, and they go, oh, and, well, Schilling sold to McCormick, and they actually kept that red that’s known as Schilling red.

Scott Cowan [00:11:55]:

Right.

Eric Phillips [00:11:56]:

Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:11:56]:

So what you said, those so the three that we’ll call the three guys all met at college. So did they start this company without any real work experience real, you know, business experience prior to starting this company?

Eric Phillips [00:12:09]:

So I I met I I left out a probably important portion there, on on two fronts. One is so there are four of us. I I am thankfully included in that conversation. I joined, about six months, after, the third person, Ian, and in a very different role. But they, worked at some corporate jobs, which I I will not bad mouth, but ones that we would most be familiar with.

Scott Cowan [00:12:37]:

Sure.

Eric Phillips [00:12:39]:

And then we’re very tired of that and recognize that this was not a path forward for them. So they had worked for, you know, a finite amount of time Mhmm. And then basically said, hey. You know, this is what we went to grad school for, you know, entrepreneurial business, sustainable business. Let’s take a crack at it. And then with some convincing, so Mark and Colin co founded it and then with some convincing, they’ve looped in Ian, one of the other guys and and pulled him out of his corporate, you know, cushy job. And then, you know, and then I I worked my way into the equation over time.

Scott Cowan [00:13:15]:

So so it’s it’s the reason I’m asking is it’s always interesting to me how what the path is that people take to to get to entrepreneurship. And

Eric Phillips [00:13:25]:

I would have

Scott Cowan [00:13:26]:

been a little surprised, frankly, if they wouldn’t have done some time in corporate. It’s almost some time like it was a finite sentence or something like

Eric Phillips [00:13:32]:

you know?

Scott Cowan [00:13:33]:

But yeah. I mean, you I think people that understand it really understand that, yeah, this corporate gig, sure, salary’s nice, Benny’s are great, it’s just I it’s not I’m not getting anything Sounds so cool. Yeah. And so I’d rather go and work, you know, because I’m sure these guys are only working part time now. They probably only work on Tuesdays for a couple of hours. You know, they’ve yeah. No. They’re probably you guys are all probably working, you know.

Scott Cowan [00:14:05]:

One of my friends and and he didn’t originate this saying, but, you know, somebody goes, oh, yeah. I have a I have a, you know, I’ve got a you know, I work, you know, nine to five, Monday through Friday. And and he popped up and goes, yeah. I remember my first part time job.

Eric Phillips [00:14:17]:

Yeah. You

Scott Cowan [00:14:18]:

know? So, so we started this in 2013. Yep. So you’re on your way to a decade.

Eric Phillips [00:14:26]:

Yeah. Okay.

Scott Cowan [00:14:29]:

And you’ve moved a couple of times. So you’re okay. So the facility that you’re in now, how how big a facility are you guys in for from a production standpoint?

Eric Phillips [00:14:41]:

Yeah. Well, from a production standpoint, technically speaking, we we talk about certain things. We talk about it in certain ways for certain people and we get it right. Square footage, we have, we’re currently in 36,000 square feet, which is, you know, I I have no context to that. So I tell people I start at one end, I could sprint, get to full speed twice. You know? That’s about it for me. You know? I’m not a fast guy, but, you know, that’s that’s where I’m at. So, that’s 36,000 square feet in technical terms as I understand it.

Eric Phillips [00:15:14]:

Right? Right. And then we’re actually getting the back of the building, in later this year in a couple months, and we’ll we’ll have access to that. And that’s about, almost 90,000 square feet. Yeah. So some big expansion happening this year. We’re really excited about it. We currently have some stuff that’s stored, you know, across the street, and we’d love to just we’d like to be able to handle our business ourselves and not have to worry about other people. Mhmm.

Eric Phillips [00:15:42]:

You know? So we’re excited to bring that all in house.

Scott Cowan [00:15:44]:

You guys are gonna be over a hundred thousand square feet? Yeah. Yeah. That’s a lot of square footage.

Eric Phillips [00:15:49]:

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I don’t know the technical sprinting equation to that one, but I’ll let you know. I’ll follow-up with you when we get that backspace.

Scott Cowan [00:15:57]:

I think they call that a half marathon.

Eric Phillips [00:15:58]:

Yeah. Half Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:16:00]:

Just that’s a lot of well, I used to work so in the nineties, I worked at Starbucks corporate.

Eric Phillips [00:16:07]:

Okay. So

Scott Cowan [00:16:07]:

the Starbucks center down in So to. Right? And that building, each of those floors is a 100,000 square feet. So I’ve got a pretty good context of that’s a lot of square footage, man. That’s that’s wow. Okay.

Eric Phillips [00:16:20]:

Yeah. Yeah. It’ll be exciting. And, you know, with that expansion comes more tanks. You know, we’re we’re trying, you know, really as we’ve expanded, I think there’s an important conversation because I think that, you know, sometimes you can be not associated as a craft brand. Well, you can expand sustainably and still maintain those craft roots And it’s not even maintained, it’s perpetuate. It’s, you know, prophetized, if you will, like talk about it, you know. And and and that’s that’s the exciting thing about us is, you know, we we’re still doing the same thing, but better and and just a little bit bigger, you know?

Scott Cowan [00:17:00]:

Right. Right. Yeah. You guys got a a pretty extensive line of products. And we’re we’re gonna get we’re gonna talk product, of of course.

Eric Phillips [00:17:07]:

So I I trust you.

Scott Cowan [00:17:08]:

Yeah. We’ll get there. I’m I’m watching I’m on your website, and it’s it’s kinda scrolling by, which is catching my eye sometimes. Like, okay. So I’m gonna I’m gonna move that so it doesn’t keep scratching. You know? Okay. So when they started, back when they launched commercially, how how much product did they have? How many how many, you know, how many SKUs did they launch with? Do you know?

Eric Phillips [00:17:31]:

Yeah. Oh, totally. No. I was I mean, I was in about six months after

Scott Cowan [00:17:36]:

Okay.

Eric Phillips [00:17:37]:

The company started. You know? I think I could be totally wrong, but, we started with, Schilling original, and it was a hopped cider. Okay. It’s a it was a dry hopped cider. Dry hopped and a dry cider so a dry dry hop cider that’s confusing and we started with shilling original and then we also had one that was called Schilling Oak Aged where we actually had oak chips essentially you know in in the liquid as it was fermenting and we pulled some some really great flavors out of it. Almost more along the lines of like an oak chardonnay.

Scott Cowan [00:18:10]:

Okay.

Eric Phillips [00:18:12]:

But without the buttery characteristics, which some people don’t like. And then we had a ginger cider.

Scott Cowan [00:18:17]:

Okay.

Eric Phillips [00:18:18]:

And it was with, it was really fun because there’s a I didn’t, you know, I didn’t know this beforehand, but there are many different types of ginger. And of course there are many different types of ginger. I do not

Scott Cowan [00:18:27]:

know that.

Eric Phillips [00:18:28]:

Yeah. Right? Like, but like you think about it now, you’re like, yeah. I mean, that just makes sense. Of course there’s more than one type of ginger. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:18:33]:

You couldn’t have thought of that. Ginger, everything’s ginger. You know?

Eric Phillips [00:18:36]:

Yeah. So those are the three releases.

Scott Cowan [00:18:39]:

Okay.

Eric Phillips [00:18:39]:

Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:18:40]:

Do you know why they started with those versus just, you know, a plain old hard apple cider just, you know, not Yeah. So Not hopped, not aged, not not ginger.

Eric Phillips [00:18:56]:

Yeah. So the original, wasn’t advertised as a hop cider at the beginning. And so it was just advertised as, like, a dry cider, but it had some more fun characteristics and a little bit better mouthfeel than a lot of stuff at that time. You know, we’re talking nine, ten years ago when cider was having another resurgence. You know, there were some products that existed and then some from some legacy brands at major corporate, you know beverage companies. And you know the real and I’ll answer the question that the the the start and the scale up was from Boston Beer. They released Angry Orchard, right? Boston Beer of Truly and of Twisted Tea and, you know, Sam Adams. All those brands, right? Have launched Angry Orchard.

Eric Phillips [00:19:43]:

And so you had this easier access to people, for consumers, right? They now cider was on all the shelves,

Scott Cowan [00:19:50]:

Right?

Eric Phillips [00:19:52]:

Well, at that same time, there were some other companies, ourselves included, that were releasing ciders. Most of them were in bottle. We were the first cider in cans on the West Coast.

Scott Cowan [00:20:02]:

Okay.

Eric Phillips [00:20:02]:

And so I think part of that strategy was what is different about our cider to gain a shelf placement? Because if you’re not on the shelf, it doesn’t matter how good your cider is. Right? Right. Unfortunately, that’s just where we’re at.

Scott Cowan [00:20:14]:

That’s that’s just yeah. It’s reality.

Eric Phillips [00:20:16]:

And so, you know, the original had that you know, it was different enough from the dry ciders or the semi sweet ciders that were out there right and then the oak aged nothing else existed in oak aged or in ginger at that point so those are two new entrants to category. You know, and and we were looking at at that point there was a lot more connotation or, connectedness with the wine business

Scott Cowan [00:20:43]:

Right.

Eric Phillips [00:20:43]:

Than there was with craft beer. Right? Or or a separate category cider. Yeah. You know, there was no cider category. It was like, well, it’s kinda like wine made from apples. Great. It goes here. So that’s kinda why that choice was made.

Scott Cowan [00:20:57]:

Yeah. I’ve heard that from other cider makers that it, you know, that have been around for, you know, more more than just last week. That at first it was placed with wine because, yeah, it’s made out of it’s made out of apples and it’s fermented. Yeah. It’s wine.

Eric Phillips [00:21:14]:

And technically it’s taxed as wine. Right? Like it’s taxed as an apple wine. You know?

Scott Cowan [00:21:17]:

There’s Okay. Yeah. Think about that. Okay. But, yeah, that’s a good point.

Eric Phillips [00:21:21]:

There’s a lot of poppy stuff there.

Scott Cowan [00:21:22]:

Yeah. Well, yeah, because if you go if your ABV is a little too high, doesn’t it get taxed as champagne? Isn’t it pop up into another? Yeah.

Eric Phillips [00:21:30]:

We we don’t No. It’s it’s fascinating, honestly. I I’ve heard that on all the time. People like that.

Scott Cowan [00:21:35]:

But let’s be real. The minute we start saying, okay. Now we’re gonna talk about taxes, everyone’s going next episode. So we’re gonna we’ll spare everybody that. But okay. So they start with those three. And how was it getting it on the shelves? Was it was because it wasn’t cider wasn’t everywhere back in in 2013. It wasn’t I mean, now you walk into a a a any establishment, Safeway Albertsons, Fred Meyer, bottle shops.

Scott Cowan [00:22:07]:

You’ve got lots of choices. You didn’t have those back then.

Eric Phillips [00:22:10]:

Yeah. It was definitely, so I didn’t have the first experience, in selling it into stores as good as I was over at the cider house. Mhmm. I can tell you that there was there’s definitely at that point, and there still obviously exists to a much greater degree through education and you know thankfully consumers spreading their dollars there, a very interested contingents like a group of people who were just super pumped on cider. And it was thanks to, in part, one of them was and thanks to, this gentleman named Alan Shapiro who started with some other people, the Snyder summits. And Okay. In Seattle so there’s four a year. There’s one in Seattle.

Eric Phillips [00:22:53]:

There’s one in the, a large city in a state that will not be named, one in the Bay Area, and then one in Chicago.

Scott Cowan [00:23:00]:

Okay.

Eric Phillips [00:23:01]:

And I’d recommend if people are excited about cider to check those out. So when we opened the cider house, right, there was a line around the block. There was a literal line for a block Wow. Of people waiting to get in because it coincided with the cider summit.

Scott Cowan [00:23:17]:

Oh, okay.

Eric Phillips [00:23:18]:

You know? And we did that intentionally, obviously.

Scott Cowan [00:23:19]:

Yeah. No. That makes sense, though. That makes sense.

Eric Phillips [00:23:22]:

So, you know, there was a there was a group of people that were excited about it. And then there were so there were people that were vocal about, you know, getting cider and stores, having more access to it. At the beginning, it was trying to figure out where cider goes. Then it was trying to figure out, well, we already have a cider. We don’t need two. It’s like okay. So there was an education piece there that needed to happen. So thankfully there were some you know stores like PCC and Whole Foods and Met Market, you know some local stores and the red apples and the Northwest grocers were open to it right they had availability that they were willing to create space on their shelves for cider then once we got some traction there we were very lucky.

Eric Phillips [00:24:06]:

And and, you know, I think the harder you work, the lucky you get. Mhmm. But we were able to get into, some Kroger banners being QFC and Fred Meyer. And once that started it started to pick up momentum. And then Cider had created a space that was dedicated to its, you know, craft on the shelf.

Scott Cowan [00:24:26]:

Mhmm. Did you did you start canning immediately? Mhmm. So you guys you guys launched with cans?

Eric Phillips [00:24:34]:

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. That’s kinda yeah. So, yeah, we were the first on the West Coast to launch cans, and that that has its own hurdles, obviously. Right?

Scott Cowan [00:24:43]:

I well, from what I’ve been told yeah. I mean, I’ve I’ve heard there’s some challenges with canning and cider, but okay. So you guys started so so I think I think the thing is is that I think a lot of ciders at first, and this is just my interpretation, a lot of them were in glass. So well, we’ll put it next to wine. Not that beer doesn’t come in glasses, but beer’s got cans. And the minute you put it in cans, now all of a sudden, they’re like, well, then we can put it next to beer. And I wonder if that made it for the layman who’s grabbing a six pack on Friday night. Well well, let’s try this out, you know, versus, you know, I’m not into wine, so I’m not gonna go even look at what’s the cider stuff over next to the Chardonnays because I don’t drink wine, so I don’t care.

Scott Cowan [00:25:25]:

Yeah. But if I’m, you know, walking through Safeway, I might grab a six pack of these cans. I might even think they’re beer for I might just quickly grab and make a mistake and go, oh, this is really cool. So

Eric Phillips [00:25:37]:

Yeah. You know, I’ve you’re absolutely right. And the couple of reasons we went into cans, and one of them the main one was being sustainability. Right? That aluminum is almost in you know, not infinitely, but very very recyclable, you know, and it takes less energy than glass. It also weighs less for shipping.

Scott Cowan [00:25:57]:

And

Eric Phillips [00:25:57]:

so there’s a lot of, you know, important reasons for going to cans. It also holds up better in cans despite what people, you know, their their myths that they hold to be truths. It’s the degradation from light, you know, just the same as beer, it happens the same way of cider and glass. You know? I’m not saying that happens overnight or it’s

Scott Cowan [00:26:18]:

it’s bad

Eric Phillips [00:26:18]:

including glass. I’m not saying that. I’m saying that you are UV protected in a different way than you are in glass.

Scott Cowan [00:26:24]:

Mhmm.

Eric Phillips [00:26:24]:

Right? And there’s also how do you differentiate yourself, right, from what’s happening? And, actually, it, I’m not gonna lie. Like, it hurt us in the beginning being in cans. Like, it was not it was not like we had accelerated our growth because we were in cans. That was another battle that we had to fight, another conversation we had to have, another way to convince them of, hey. Actually, cans have, you know, have a higher quality than glass, you know. So we really had to educate and we had to educate for literally years Mhmm. On why. Right? Probably up until about five years ago.

Scott Cowan [00:27:01]:

Oh, okay.

Eric Phillips [00:27:03]:

Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:27:05]:

Now you start with three. What was what’s the company’s I’m not asking to give away company secrets here, but what’s the company’s how does the company go about deciding how to bring a new cider to market? What’s what’s the creative process like?

Eric Phillips [00:27:22]:

Yeah. A couple different ways. And I think it’s it’s evolved over time, obviously, where before it was, you know, thrown spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks. But now it’s, you know, I think we have a little bit better process in place, and I like to think so. At least we’ve worked to, you know, incorporate that into our growth and our scalability. One really fun thing is the cider houses are a data center, essentially. Right? I mean, you think about it. You go in.

Eric Phillips [00:27:52]:

What sells the best? Okay. Well, the other thing that’s really cool about the cider houses is we have our tabs. We don’t have all the tabs. One of the really big things that we’re proponents for is growing cider as a whole category. Because if they win, we win. And if we win, they win. Right? There’s just the alt you know, all boats rise. Right? And and so looking at the cider houses, you know, we’ll put something on or someone else has something on that that sells like crazy.

Eric Phillips [00:28:18]:

Now we can go in and be like, alright. Great. That’s that let’s let’s investigate that. Let’s learn more about that. Why are people drinking that? You know? And so that’s a good starting point for us. So, you know, we or and then outside of that, we’ll look at data. You know? But data is like taxes. No one wants to hear about that.

Scott Cowan [00:28:35]:

Right. So one of the questions I love to ask people, and you’re probably gonna hate it at first, but I think you’ll play along. You had to have a flop somewhere.

Eric Phillips [00:28:43]:

Oh, you had Oh, yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:28:45]:

So what were some of those flops? And I asked that not to be, I think we learned from, you know, we learned from it when we’re like, well, I thought this, you know, jalapeno and coffee blend would be good.

Eric Phillips [00:28:56]:

I yeah. I was you know, you did tell me we talked about coffee.

Scott Cowan [00:29:00]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Phillips [00:29:01]:

So so I’ll jump into that one. So I actually I have all the cans kinda lining my my office here, and

Scott Cowan [00:29:08]:

it’s fun

Eric Phillips [00:29:09]:

it’s fun to look at and be like, oh, I can’t believe we’ve made that. You know? Yeah. Or or I actually had, our head cider maker came in. It was just yesterday, honestly. And he came in and he goes, Eric, do you remember what this was called back then? And I really had to wrack my brain. I was like, Oh yeah. Wow. We, you know, we made that.

Eric Phillips [00:29:28]:

Why? Like, what were we thinking? Which is fun. It’s so fun because, you know, you you have to take, you know, both you know, it’s cliche, but you gotta take those risks, you know, because Sure. You know? But, one of them, not so much so, yes, failure in one sense, but also so successful in another sense that it’s so polarizing that that we no longer make it. One of those was a, nitro cold brew coffee cider. That’s a lot to unpack. I recognize that.

Scott Cowan [00:29:58]:

Now that sounds amazing to me. So Totally. I mean, to me, I’d be, like, totally into that.

Eric Phillips [00:30:02]:

Yeah. So there were it it was it was it was awesome. Just from a technological standpoint to be able to do that because you have to have, you know, proteins to bind the the the the, you know, you’ve got your carbonation, you got nitrogen. So to bind, so you actually get that smooth pour. Right?

Scott Cowan [00:30:18]:

Right.

Eric Phillips [00:30:19]:

So, we we actually figured out not we, Mark, for and I, cofounder, you know, kinda took this project on and Colin and they’re working on this and, you know, theoretically, this could work and let’s figure it out. And that’s one of the fun things that’s really allowed us to scale is just everyone’s excitement about what they do. And, you know, I’m sure we’ll talk more about that. But this coffee was called Grumpy Bear.

Scott Cowan [00:30:43]:

Okay. Which I would personally love.

Eric Phillips [00:30:45]:

I could do that. Exactly. So so you’ve got a lot of things in the win column. Right?

Scott Cowan [00:30:49]:

Right.

Eric Phillips [00:30:49]:

When people tried it, they either loved it or they hated it, and there was no in between. And there was no middle ground. There was no middle ground. And so you know we made it. It was diff it was you know more difficult to make, you know, and it was, not for everyone and it didn’t really have a space, you know, in the chain stores, you know, in the large grocery. Right?

Scott Cowan [00:31:08]:

Right.

Eric Phillips [00:31:09]:

So it was a it was a cult favorite. And I still get people. I you know, I met this guy down in Texas, and and he just he’ll still show me cans. I’m like, dude, that’s probably not good. You probably shouldn’t drink that. And he’s like, no. That’s great. I’m like, I don’t know, man.

Eric Phillips [00:31:22]:

If you die, like, I’m gonna feel really bad, but I told you not to drink that about five times. You know? He’s like, no. I still got some. I’m like, alright, man. Like, I I clearly cannot stop you from enjoying this cider, but, you know so, you know, successful on one on one side and and and less on the other. And, you know, So that’s that’s, I think, one of the more fun ones to talk about. I’m sure we had some other ones too.

Scott Cowan [00:31:45]:

I wanna interject on on so so the fact that you said coffee, I had no clue that somebody would try that. So when I first started working at Starbucks Yeah. I think it was like a hazing prank. They gave me this bottle of this Starbucks product called Mazatran.

Eric Phillips [00:32:01]:

Okay.

Scott Cowan [00:32:02]:

And it was a coffee cola.

Eric Phillips [00:32:04]:

Oh, okay. Okay.

Scott Cowan [00:32:05]:

And it was and and they go, here. Try this. And I’m like, oh, okay. Cool. And and they’re all, like, watching me waiting for me, like, to, you know, throw up or, you know, you know, and I like this stuff. It was it was Starbucks’ first foray partnership with Pepsi.

Eric Phillips [00:32:22]:

Okay.

Scott Cowan [00:32:23]:

And so they made this, African inspired I I can’t remember the whole story. The anyway but, anyway, the bottom line was it was either you liked it or you hated it.

Eric Phillips [00:32:36]:

Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:32:37]:

And I would find so this people were selling it on eBay.

Eric Phillips [00:32:42]:

Oh, yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:32:42]:

Yeah. It it had this cult, like, you know, it was just bizarre. So it’s kinda sounds like a a, you know, a very similar path to what you guys are trying with coffee and cider. That’s okay.

Eric Phillips [00:32:52]:

Yeah. We made one on draft. There was a actually, two other really fun ones. And who knows what we’ll do long term? You know, the the the sky’s the limit sometimes, but we made a a, chocolate nitro cider.

Scott Cowan [00:33:07]:

Okay.

Eric Phillips [00:33:08]:

So it had I believe don’t quote me on this, but I believe it had Theo chocolate in it because we’re just down the street in the great Fremont neighborhood. Right? Unplugging Washington more because Yes. Sounds good. Yeah. I got you. And and then we also had a, we made a Sriracha lime cider. And it was actual bottles of Sriracha, and they’re blended in with the cider. And I think it I can’t remember.

Eric Phillips [00:33:30]:

I it was I it was good enough. Some people loved it. They would come in to get full 16 ounce pints and get another pint. And I was like, I don’t know how they’re doing this. And that was their they get I swear to you. They get growlers of it to go. And we had it on draft for forever, you know, until, you know, several years ago, but it was a Sriracha lime cider, and people loved it. And they’re like, oh, yeah.

Eric Phillips [00:33:55]:

It’s like a spicy nacho. Like, I don’t know, man. You do you. But

Scott Cowan [00:33:59]:

Yeah. I mean, see okay. I’m geeking out thinking the coffee thing sounds good and, you know, and so and I’m kinda making faces with the Sriracha lime. So it’s let let’s be real. It’s it’s,

Eric Phillips [00:34:11]:

but To to each their own, I guess.

Scott Cowan [00:34:12]:

To each their own. Yeah. So how do you guys nowadays, what’s the process? I mean, you you you’ve got all this data coming in from the tap rooms. I get that. But so let let’s just arbitrarily assign a new product you’re gonna do, I’m just gonna make up stuff. Black a a Blackberry infused cider. Let’s just decide that. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:34:33]:

So what’s the process from taking it from, hey. Let’s make a blackberry type cider to getting it I mean, are you launching them first at the taproom to see kinda how they’re received locally in real time versus canning it and distributing it?

Eric Phillips [00:34:49]:

Yeah. Generally, you know, in a perfect world, we’re able to, you know, assess the viability of it. You know, we also there’s a lot of data out there on, you know, the sales side of things so we can look at other things and and look at that standpoint. But, you know, I think for us, you know, we will definitely try out some of the cider houses, and that’s a great place to get, you know, the first of the first, you know, and we’ll call it something else down the road, but you’ve tried the first iteration. Right? But we’re also trying to do things that other people aren’t doing. Right? And I and I recognize, you know, that sometimes that’s not possible. Right? A dry cider is a dry cider is a dry cider. Sure.

Eric Phillips [00:35:31]:

But is it? It’s just the same way that a rose is different depending on the Mhmm. Things that go in. Right? The ingredients. Right. And so I think that’s a lot of it for us is, okay. Let’s let’s do it the way that we wanna do it. And and that’s not to say other ways aren’t also totally great, but I think we’ve done a great job through culture building and through just creating this foundation for the company is looking at things that might not seem possible, but figuring out a way to make it happen. You know? Foot like, for example, we did some data digging.

Eric Phillips [00:36:06]:

Right? And we we said, okay. Well, why is, you know, why why is this happening in the in the world of cider? We started to assess it, and then we said, you know what? No one is doing this. No one is creating a higher ABV, right, volume by volume, a stronger, if you will, cider. It’s all capped at and we won’t get into taxes, but I’ll tell you a little bit. It’s all capped at about 6.9%.

Scott Cowan [00:36:32]:

Right.

Eric Phillips [00:36:32]:

Why is that? Well, there’s tax implications above that.

Scott Cowan [00:36:35]:

Mhmm.

Eric Phillips [00:36:35]:

K? And then there’s also people talking about, like, well, why does this fruit cider cost more? Again, further tax implications

Scott Cowan [00:36:43]:

Oh, really?

Eric Phillips [00:36:43]:

On fruited ciders. Yeah. So anytime you put and I promise I’ll answer your question. Anytime you put even a drop, right, or even you don’t even have to put anything in the liquid. Just alluding to there being a fruit other than apple or pear, right, so cider or perry, right, is this called, You are in a different tax bracket.

Scott Cowan [00:37:10]:

Okay. So we’re just gonna go into the tax bracket thing because actually it’s

Eric Phillips [00:37:14]:

kinda dinky. You knew it was gonna happen.

Scott Cowan [00:37:16]:

Yeah. Yeah. So so so what I my understanding, my layman’s my very layman’s understanding was that above a certain, alcohol content was taxed differently. I did not I’ve never heard that fruit increased taxes. Can you other than just because they want to, but why why is that?

Eric Phillips [00:37:37]:

It’s honestly, a lot of these cider laws are they come from wine. Right? Well, there aren’t I will say this. There are not specific cider laws necessarily. They’re all based on wine laws. And so you are taxed as a fruit wine if you put fruit other than apple or pear into a cider.

Scott Cowan [00:37:56]:

And it’s

Eric Phillips [00:37:57]:

it’s just archaic laws. And and, you know, there there’s reasons to change it. There’s reasons not to change it. Right? That keeps some people out of the category. It allows other people to be in the category. Right? You can think about large corporations versus craft players, etcetera. So one of them so circling back, right, because I think this will this will tag in here is if you go above 6.9%, it’s again a different tax bracket. Right?

Scott Cowan [00:38:25]:

Mhmm.

Eric Phillips [00:38:26]:

Well, you also cannot put cider used to this is about two years ago. You couldn’t put cider over 6.9% in a 12 ounce can. You could put it in a three seventy five milliliter, a five milliliter, or a 750 milliliter. Right? So wine sizes. Sizes that wine down. Right?

Scott Cowan [00:38:48]:

Right.

Eric Phillips [00:38:48]:

So we looked at it, and we said you talked about how do we invent new items? How do you come up with new items? We looked at it and said, okay. We wanna create a higher ABB cider, but you can’t go above 6.09%. Otherwise, you’re gonna go into this tax bracket. We’re not interested in going into glass. Right? Because at the very beginning, we founded the company on alumina.

Scott Cowan [00:39:09]:

Right.

Eric Phillips [00:39:10]:

So we found sourcing for a three seventy five milliliter can. And for those who, you know, aren’t in the beverage world, that’s about 12.6, 12 point seven ounces. K?

Scott Cowan [00:39:21]:

Okay. So

Eric Phillips [00:39:22]:

if you put a can right next to a a 12 ounce can right next to a three seventy five can, you’re you’d have to put them right next to each other to notice the difference in height.

Scott Cowan [00:39:31]:

Okay.

Eric Phillips [00:39:32]:

Now the diameter is not different. K? So the circumferences is not different, just the height.

Scott Cowan [00:39:36]:

Okay.

Eric Phillips [00:39:37]:

Okay. So that bodes well for packaging. Right? Cardboard around it. Because you’re not going wider, you’re just going a little bit taller. That’s you can solve for that. So when we’re coming out with this, we went, okay. We got it. We found three seventy five ounce cans that can be printed.

Eric Phillips [00:39:54]:

We don’t put wraps on our cans, wraps being plastic. Because you see a lot of those come out and you’re like, oh, this will be released. It’s got plastic wrap on it. That’s great except for that now you’ve taken an infinitely recyclable item and you cannot recycle it. You have to remove the plastic. And it’s about 1% if you’re taking again, the data’s close. It’s not completely accurate, but about 1% if you have flawed, basically, aluminum content in your recycling, it ruins that entire batch.

Scott Cowan [00:40:23]:

Eric Phillips [00:40:23]:

Right? So people are gonna put those cans into recycling and

Scott Cowan [00:40:26]:

not even

Eric Phillips [00:40:26]:

ruin it. That’s the whole sustainability. It’s the same thing with stickers. You know, eventually they’re gonna invent stickers that are recyclable and we’ll be able to do that. We don’t have that yet.

Scott Cowan [00:40:35]:

Okay.

Eric Phillips [00:40:35]:

Right? And so when people are in, it’s great, you know, sure. But I I think it’s not great because you’ve taken a product that’s recyclable by putting a plastic wrap around it.

Scott Cowan [00:40:45]:

Mhmm.

Eric Phillips [00:40:45]:

And you no longer can recycle that product.

Scott Cowan [00:40:48]:

So I’m on your website and it’s scrolling cans are scrolling past me.

Eric Phillips [00:40:51]:

Yeah. Right? They’re great.

Scott Cowan [00:40:52]:

Right? Yeah. They’re I like the artwork and we’re we’ll get to the artwork. But one of them of course, it’s not gonna scroll past me now, but I see a couple of them with the higher, the Excelsior’s Yeah. With the higher. Yeah. Those cans on the website don’t look any taller. Am I missing So that Is this just for artwork purposes?

Eric Phillips [00:41:08]:

No. So about two so about a year ago, right, about a year or less ago, the law changed. So we started it. We found three seventy five cans. I’ll I’ll I’ll speed this one up. We found those three seventy five cans. We made this higher ABV cider, which was the original imperial cider. So we’re the first imperial cider in a can, as far as I know, in the nation.

Eric Phillips [00:41:28]:

Now obviously, we’ve had a lot of people follow us because they looked at it. This thing is, no pun intended. Right? If you look at the can Excelsior space themed, it’s a rocket ship. Like, it is it is it is, like, you know, as they say, it’s it’s going outer space. It’s crazy. And and so, you know, right now, actually, it’s it’s I don’t wanna turn people away from it. You should definitely buy it because it’s it’s incredible product. You should also support other people, but, like, if you’ve never tried it, try it.

Eric Phillips [00:41:54]:

It is now the top five six pack in the entire Pacific Northwest.

Scott Cowan [00:41:59]:

Really?

Eric Phillips [00:41:59]:

So we’re talking, like, about, like, corona level in in sales. You

Scott Cowan [00:42:04]:

know? Wow.

Eric Phillips [00:42:05]:

It’s incredible. So we’re super excited about that, you know, and and we don’t even have a lot of distribution on it to the degree to which we will. So Okay. If you don’t find it now, give us a couple months. We’re working on it for you. So we created that. Then the law changed. Right? So then the law changed for the three seventy fives and it went, you know, three seventy five, 12 point seven ounce.

Eric Phillips [00:42:23]:

Right? Slightly taller cans to 12 ounce. K? That allowed other people to enter the category. Great. Competition is healthy. That’s important. Right?

Scott Cowan [00:42:32]:

Mhmm.

Eric Phillips [00:42:33]:

And so a lot so there you know, you can look out there. You can know that chilling started that category, the impure category. And everyone else has followed suit. And they’re smart too. Right? They looked at the data. They saw how successful it was. Now we’ve created a brand family. Right? We’re the first ones to create an imperial brand family.

Eric Phillips [00:42:50]:

Right? So if if, you know, casual beer drinkers out there, think about Voodoo Ranger from from New Belgium. Right? They created a brand family around that or the little thing, the thing series, the Hayes Little Thing from Sierra Nevada or from, you know, a state that won’t be named on the East side of the state. Right? Deschutes, They have their fresh series. Right? And they’ve created these series around them. And so we created the Excelsior series. Excelsior meaning ever upward. Right? Right. So the connotation of the ABV, it’s also super fun to say like, you can’t tell me I’m wrong on that.

Eric Phillips [00:43:25]:

You know. And you know Stan Lee, right? I mean come on. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:43:29]:

So you mentioned Imperial. Why, help me out here. What why is that? What’s that?

Eric Phillips [00:43:37]:

So Imperial connotates a, like, a double of the standard, right, of ABV. And it also means things different in beer. If you’re looking at a, you know, double IPA, you’re looking at double the hops, double the malt. So you’ve increased the alcohol content through fermentation. Okay. And that’s actually we actually sourced we are sourcing, bitter sweet, bitter sharp apples from where they originated. Right? For this, so you get that tannin mouthfeel.

Scott Cowan [00:44:10]:

Mhmm.

Eric Phillips [00:44:11]:

Right? So we’ve tried it. We blind taste tested this next to some amazing ciders that are, you know, 25 to $30 a bottle. And people are like they, you know, they’ll choose Excelsior or they’ll say, hey. You know what? This one is almost as good. What is this? Well, it costs you, like, you know, $2 instead of 20, right, for the same amount of liquid.

Scott Cowan [00:44:33]:

Let’s talk about your cans for a second. Yeah. So you’re are you guys printing the cans? Are you buying the blanks and printing them in house, or or do you buy them printed from somewhere else?

Eric Phillips [00:44:44]:

Yeah. So you there’s there’s two companies, mainly that do all aluminum beverage can printing. There’s Crown and there’s Ball. Mhmm. And Ball from your Ball, you will recognize them. Right? And if you look on the cans, you actually see a little crown where it says ball and cursive on every single can. It’s always fun to see who makes your cans. So there are different plants plants can manufacturing plants around The US, and we actually have some.

Eric Phillips [00:45:13]:

There’s one here in Tumwater. There’s another ball plant that’s just up the road from where our warehouse is, and they print them. So they actually have these plates. Would do you wanna hear about the how how the whole process works?

Scott Cowan [00:45:24]:

Well, no. I’m just the reason being is so is the ball plant still is there one still kind of an Auburn off of 167?

Eric Phillips [00:45:30]:

Yeah. That’s a small facility for them, but yes. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:45:33]:

Yeah. I used to, long time ago, had to go in there for work purposes.

Eric Phillips [00:45:37]:

Okay.

Scott Cowan [00:45:38]:

And it’s really noisy when a forklift knocks over a stack. Have you been in there?

Eric Phillips [00:45:45]:

I’ve not been in that facility, but I know what the stack cans look like. And I know what

Scott Cowan [00:45:49]:

it’s not like. They one guy this guy turned his pallet. You know, he’s driving his forklift, and he turned he had it stacked up and he turned it too and he knocked. I mean, I I don’t know if I’ve ever been in a noisier place when that when all that fell apart. So so you’re ordering those from we’ll just say Ball or whatever. So it’s so they’re doing the printing. So you guys don’t have to do that.

Eric Phillips [00:46:08]:

Yeah. And there’s actually it’s really interesting. I I think this is actually fascinating. It’s kinda like how the world works. Right? And how like the how is how it’s made, you know? So when we so we create the artwork, right, in in on the template and digitally and we we do all that in house and so it’s you know this is not I’m not trying to shout out for myself but a lot of that kind of comes from my head in in our design team right I’ll say hey you know I’m thinking about this you know the giraffe and the space helmet, that kind of stuff. So it’s just super exciting, you know, to be a part of that. It’s what I love coming to work for. Sure.

Eric Phillips [00:46:42]:

And so we’ll create that digitally, put that on a template, and there’s actually a facility, in in Washington, in the great state of Washington, that, people fly into. Right? They they’ll fly from all over The US, and they’ll do a pilot can. And the reason they do a pilot can is to work out all the kinks.

Scott Cowan [00:47:00]:

Sure.

Eric Phillips [00:47:00]:

They’ll actually print one, two, three, and you’ll be able to see it. I don’t know if listeners will be able to see it, but this is actually a brand new product that’ll be coming out. Okay. Excelsior Red Bull. So this just you’ll see the top of this portion. Right? You have the 12 ounce normal, and this is actually printed on a 16 ounce template. So you’ve got this just bare aluminum at the top. Right?

Scott Cowan [00:47:20]:

Right.

Eric Phillips [00:47:21]:

So go to that facility and they print those cans and you can look at the colors and say that color is not right. And once you finalize that, they have a what they call they plate it. Basically, they they they put the ink in. They do all that. And now you’ve got this plate that goes to ball or crown and you have agreed on the colors. You agreed on the pressures that that plate puts on that can. Right?

Scott Cowan [00:47:46]:

Mhmm.

Eric Phillips [00:47:47]:

And now you’ve got the perfect can. You know? And you can see what it looks like when it wraps and touches in the back, so there’s continuity there. I I think it’s fascinating. I I

Scott Cowan [00:47:56]:

don’t know. It is it is fascinating, and it’s maddening when you’re trying to put something together and it and it doesn’t line up right. So alright. Let’s, well, let’s let’s not put the clutch in all the way and grind my gears a little bit here. Sure. Let’s let’s talk about the Excelsior line because I’m getting a kick out of the the cans as they scroll by, and you just you kinda teased another one coming. So I guess you can share more about that. Absolutely.

Scott Cowan [00:48:23]:

What so what’s so let’s do this. What’s what’s on the horizon for you guys new product wise that you can that you can disclose?

Eric Phillips [00:48:30]:

Oh, I’m an open book, man. First Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I’m I’m pretty But I

Scott Cowan [00:48:34]:

don’t wanna put you on the spot. You know?

Eric Phillips [00:48:35]:

No. No. I don’t. I’m Okay. Is anyone who, you know, gets to work with me or or, you know, has the whatever you wanna say, you know, I work with, they’ll know. They know. You know? Alright. So, you know, the the the fun thing is is we started with Excelsior.

Eric Phillips [00:48:50]:

Right? It’s the first imperial cider in a can in the nation. Right? Right.

Scott Cowan [00:48:54]:

And

Eric Phillips [00:48:54]:

now we’ve got a lot of people who have noticed. And and we already have put into motion, you know, after it launched, we said, okay. What where do we need to go with this line? Like, this is incredible. Let’s build a brand. Let’s build a family of giraffes. Right? Let’s put some space down what’s on them. Let’s send them in outer space. Right? How do we differentiate? Why is it important? What’s the what’s the benefit for, you know, the consumer? Right? Like, you know, it’s it’s not just to innovate to just innovate, but like, man, like let’s let’s do it right.

Eric Phillips [00:49:23]:

And so, you know, we created this cider that is just a really high ABV, good tasting, just apple forward cider that didn’t exist. Then we said, okay. What have we done well in the past? We’ve done fruited ciders pretty well, you know?

Scott Cowan [00:49:38]:

Okay.

Eric Phillips [00:49:38]:

K. Well, let’s investigate that. Where’s the gap in the portfolio? Also, why would someone just want a fruited version? Like, I don’t wanna release Excelsior at the same ABV. Right?

Scott Cowan [00:49:49]:

Mhmm.

Eric Phillips [00:49:50]:

Like, that’s a waste of your time. Right? Okay.

Scott Cowan [00:49:52]:

And I

Eric Phillips [00:49:52]:

don’t wanna waste the consumer’s time. So instead of saying, okay. Well, all the all the Excelsior items are gonna be the same AVD. Right? Let’s let someone else play that game. That’s not interesting to us. Let’s kick it up. Like, let’s turn it to we can’t we didn’t turn it to 11. That would be a hot that’d be a hot cider.

Eric Phillips [00:50:08]:

Right? But let’s we we turned it up to 9.1%.

Scott Cowan [00:50:12]:

Right.

Eric Phillips [00:50:13]:

9.1. So now, you look at it and you say, okay. Well, first of all, if you’re drinking Excelsior, you’re in it for the experience. Right? And I’m not advocating for drinking. Right? I Right. Right. You do you. I respect that.

Eric Phillips [00:50:26]:

But if you’re getting a 9.1 cider, you have a goal in mind. Right? Right. You are on a journey. Right? Yes. And you are gonna take that rocket ship there. And we’re just gonna help put some fuel in the tank. Right? So Right. 9.1 cider, mango.

Eric Phillips [00:50:42]:

Right? So we’re that’s that’s what we did. So we released Excelsior mango 9.1. And the fun thing is is I really like it because myself and, like, a couple of other people, we write the stories on the cans. You know? So it’s like I get to instead of just being, you know, in data all day, that’s that’s my creative outlet. You know? They they still let me do it. We’re gonna hire up for it now, and and I’ll be sad to, you know, let that go, but it’s important.

Scott Cowan [00:51:05]:

Maybe you should apply for that job.

Eric Phillips [00:51:06]:

Yeah. I should. I should. You know what? I’ll tell I’ll I’ll tell the head of marketing that I want it.

Scott Cowan [00:51:10]:

Yeah.

Eric Phillips [00:51:11]:

So, you know, it and so now the next one, right, which I think is what people are probably more interested in than me battling is we we we wanna release something else, but we can just wanna say, you know what? I’m gonna launch this cider and we’re just gonna put a different fruit in it. We’re gonna keep it the same ABV. Again, not interesting. Right?

Scott Cowan [00:51:30]:

Right.

Eric Phillips [00:51:30]:

I want people to expect whatever Shilling is doing is worth checking out, you know. Okay. Like, sure we can make another and I’m not knocking IVAs. We can make another IVA for a beer company. Right? And we could throw different hops in it. It’s not interesting. Let’s do something that really changes things. You know? So that higher ABV and fruit for for mango.

Eric Phillips [00:51:50]:

Now what we’ve done is we’ve actually people should look this up if they’re listening. Right? Multitask. Don’t do it while you’re driving. Do an apple. Make a mental note. So if you crack open an apple, right, on the inside, you it’s pretty much all the same color. Right? It’s kind of like that white color. Right? If you will.

Eric Phillips [00:52:08]:

We found we’ve known about it for a while, but we did we weren’t sure how to do it. So it’s kind of something we thought about for a really long time. It’s like, oh, wouldn’t it be cool if and now that if is a reality. You crack these apples. They’re called red flesh apples. Red flesh apples. Okay? You crack them open. Well, you’re familiar.

Eric Phillips [00:52:26]:

And you look on the inside and it’s actually red. It’s red on the inside. Like, that’s crazy. You know, when people look at that, they they you look it up on the Internet and you go, nah. There’s no way. And then you start your research, you’re like, oh my goodness. There’s actual red. It’s real.

Eric Phillips [00:52:40]:

Yeah. It’s real. So you think about it. Right? You press that juice. What color is that juice? Right?

Scott Cowan [00:52:46]:

It’s red.

Eric Phillips [00:52:47]:

It’s red. And so what we did is we’re really excited about it. And, I mean, my voice probably intonation probably hasn’t told you.

Scott Cowan [00:52:54]:

You’re you’re a little dry. Yeah.

Eric Phillips [00:52:56]:

Yeah. Yeah. I’ll work on it. I’ll drink some cider. So we, released this one called Red Glow. Right? Because, you know, I thought red flesh didn’t make sense on a cider canvas. People were gonna be interested in drinking a red flesh whatever. Right.

Eric Phillips [00:53:10]:

Yeah. That’s a red glow. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:53:11]:

Yeah.

Eric Phillips [00:53:12]:

So red glow. Right? And thinking about different backgrounds for the planets. Right? So Excelsior is kinda, you know, we blast it off from Earth and we’re on the moon. Right? And BANGO is, you know, we’ve gone to another galaxy. And then BANGO is kind of that Mars connotation. Right? That that red giant connotation.

Scott Cowan [00:53:30]:

And Right.

Eric Phillips [00:53:31]:

So we actually are we’ve sourced from a, a local Washington based company out in the Yakima Valley, these red flesh apples. Right? And they’re they’re called Lucy glow apples. G l o. Right? So Lucy glow apples. And I would look them up because they’re beautiful apples. They’re beautiful, beautiful apples. And that’s why it’s called red glow. Red g l o as a nod back to that.

Eric Phillips [00:53:59]:

And you’ll see, I just we’ve always put Easter eggs on our cans, and I I know it’s not a visual. It’s a auditory experience. But if you look on the cans, you’ll see little Easter eggs. Right? So, like, on one of our cans, we had put, a nod to another can that we had created. Right? On these ones, you’ve got the same little astronaut, this fat little astronaut. He’s got, like, a little belly. He’s, like, a little tiny guy. And, he’s on all the cans.

Eric Phillips [00:54:24]:

And then you’ve also got, this little alien is on the mango one and he’s different, he’s different colors. And then also on the red glow, this is the one I’m really excited about is kind of a nod. I hope that apple doesn’t sue us and, you know, I looked with legal and we should be good, but we put Lucy in the sky next to diamonds.

Scott Cowan [00:54:47]:

Well, that won’t be Apple. That’ll be

Eric Phillips [00:54:50]:

Oh, yeah. Who’s that?

Scott Cowan [00:54:51]:

Well, wait. Who who owns who owns the Beatles catalog now? Whoever That’s right. I thought

Eric Phillips [00:54:55]:

it was I thought, yeah. It’s not Apple. It’s I

Scott Cowan [00:54:57]:

thought Michael Jackson

Eric Phillips [00:54:58]:

bought it. Yeah. Yeah. That might Yeah. Anywhere would state his

Scott Cowan [00:55:00]:

Let’s not give him any ideas.

Eric Phillips [00:55:01]:

So now now you’ve got and now I’ll show you really close here. But, you know, you’ve got this Lucy, which is the trademark visual for these apples.

Scott Cowan [00:55:10]:

Right. And so we wanted

Eric Phillips [00:55:11]:

to work it in.

Scott Cowan [00:55:11]:

That’s very cool. We wanted to

Eric Phillips [00:55:12]:

work it in. And it’s also worked in the story and those kinds of things. So it’s just fun stuff.

Scott Cowan [00:55:16]:

Okay.

Eric Phillips [00:55:17]:

Yeah. So that’s that’s the new release. So we’ve got that one. You wanna hear about some other releases? Yeah. Let’s hear it. Cool. So we got, the Excelsior series is growing, and Mhmm. I will you know, for anyone who’s listening, it will continue to grow.

Scott Cowan [00:55:32]:

Okay.

Eric Phillips [00:55:32]:

I got some things rattled around this peanut shell head of mine, so we’re good to go there. And then, outside of that, we’ve got a, if you’re familiar with any of the other products, we have this one called Local Legend. Right? And it’s it’s around the idea of the Sasquatch. Right? And instead of naming it Sasquatch cider, which might connotate, you know, some fur or some grit and some you know, I wasn’t interested in that. So local legend, we actually have a 12 pack of that coming out. So we’re really excited about that, and and we’re actually pricing it in line with national cider companies. Right? Companies come from big conglomerates so that people can have a higher quality heirloom cider in a 12 pack. Right? So we’re excited about that.

Eric Phillips [00:56:14]:

And then, we have what else do we have coming up? We also have, this new lineup. Actually, it’s brand new, essentially, offshoot of Schilling, which is a is a brand called Waveline.

Scott Cowan [00:56:28]:

And some

Eric Phillips [00:56:28]:

people might be semi familiar. We had a seltzer line there for a little while, and it was said, hey. We could fight the seltzer game. We’re really trying to figure that out. It doesn’t really it’s not really who we are as a company. Right? There’s no innovation in that. And and that’s up to knock seltzer companies. Great.

Eric Phillips [00:56:41]:

If you wanna drink seltzer, drink seltzer. It just wasn’t as interesting for us. Right? Same idea as, like, sure. You could release a cider and have different variations to the same ABV and we threw fruit x in it. Fine.

Scott Cowan [00:56:52]:

Right.

Eric Phillips [00:56:53]:

We launched, a hard yerba mate.

Scott Cowan [00:57:00]:

Yeah. Let’s talk about that

Eric Phillips [00:57:00]:

a little bit. I’ll pack that together. Right? So yerba mate, obviously, you know, people are familiar with some different brands. We’re actually launching a nonalcoholic one. We could talk about that, but I’m excited about the alcohol version. It’s called Waveline Hardier Ramate. And it’s got, again, better imagery, more fun imagery. I like to say so so as a wine base, right, you you remember Four Locos?

Scott Cowan [00:57:26]:

Yeah. Okay.

Eric Phillips [00:57:27]:

So we’re not we’re not we’re not fully Four Locos. We’re like two point o Locos. K?

Scott Cowan [00:57:33]:

Okay.

Eric Phillips [00:57:33]:

So it’s little less Loco, a little bit more craft. Right? And what I mean by that is we have caffeine naturally occurring in it because it comes from Yerba Mate. Right? So Yerba Mate has natural caffeine, and it’s, you know, 4.2% alcohol. Right? And so Yeah. We created this around the Yerba Mate concept. So now you’ve got a different drinking occasion where you say, hey. You know what? I’ve had some drinks. Yeah.

Eric Phillips [00:57:58]:

Maybe switch to water. Like, that’s a great call if you’re driving. Like, stop drinking, sober up, don’t drive buzz. Right? Absolutely. Right. But if you’re like, hey. You know, I’m gonna save space. I’m gonna be here all night.

Eric Phillips [00:58:06]:

I wanna keep going. And I’ve had a couple of Excel series, and that’s really, like, taking me up to a next level. Right? I’m out in space somewhere. You wanna come back a little bit? Great. Drink a Waveland. You get a little caffeine boost in there. You know? Right. And that’s exciting for us because you cannot legally do that if it’s malt based.

Eric Phillips [00:58:26]:

If it’s a malt based product, beer, you cannot put caffeine in it. If it’s naturally occurring, you cannot put synthetic caffeine in it. Right? Which could be derived from oil or whatever. Right? I mean Right. Legitimately. But you can if it’s naturally occurring. And because it’s naturally occurring from the yerba mate, right, you’re gonna eat yerba mate, boom, done.

Scott Cowan [00:58:54]:

Well, the thing is is I can scroll by. The other thing I’m noticing is that it’s only a 90 calorie beverage.

Eric Phillips [00:58:58]:

A %. Yeah. And we can’t really say it’s low cal because you but

Scott Cowan [00:59:03]:

But let’s be real. It’s more low cal than most ciders are gonna be.

Eric Phillips [00:59:07]:

A %. Yep. Absolutely.

Scott Cowan [00:59:09]:

Or most beers.

Eric Phillips [00:59:09]:

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And it’s exciting. So the the tagline that I’m excited about for that one is, you know, you can’t say energy. Right? Because Right. Like, one, Red Bull, like, they kinda have that cornered in for legal purposes. You also can’t say that legally for a from an alcohol standpoint being in an alcohol category.

Eric Phillips [00:59:28]:

So it’s k. Unleash the funner g.

Scott Cowan [00:59:31]:

The funner g.

Eric Phillips [00:59:33]:

Right? K. Yeah. Just keeping it fun. Like, you know, that’s that’s who we are. You know, we’d like to have a good time. So Right. But then you’re also like, I see what they did there. They can’t say it, so they said it.

Eric Phillips [00:59:43]:

I get it. Right.

Scott Cowan [00:59:45]:

Well well, let me ask you this question. Yeah. You know, ciders are something we don’t typically start our mornings with. We Americans typically start the mornings with, you know, coffee. Right. And urban mate, caffeine, coffee. Yep. Caffeine.

Scott Cowan [01:00:00]:

Are you a coffee guy?

Eric Phillips [01:00:01]:

So I have never had a cup of coffee in my life, which is strange to people.

Scott Cowan [01:00:07]:

That’s that I gotta admit. That’s a

Eric Phillips [01:00:09]:

Yeah.

Scott Cowan [01:00:10]:

That’s a weird one.

Eric Phillips [01:00:11]:

Yeah. My mom my mom’s never really had coffee. My dad really enjoys coffee. My girlfriend really enjoys coffee. I get it. It’s just not for me. You know? Maybe it’s not mature. You know? It’s which Okay.

Eric Phillips [01:00:23]:

You know? My journey of life, I’ll maybe I’ll dabble. But yeah.

Scott Cowan [01:00:27]:

Okay. Alright. So you’re not the coffee guy?

Eric Phillips [01:00:30]:

Not the coffee guy.

Scott Cowan [01:00:31]:

The girlfriend is a coffee person.

Eric Phillips [01:00:33]:

She she enjoys her coffee. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [01:00:36]:

What does she enjoy?

Eric Phillips [01:00:37]:

So we recently I found this place, obviously in Washington, you know, and, you know, small batch, coffee. I can’t remember the name of it, unfortunately. But some of, you know, some of that medium more and, again, from a non coffee drinker No.

Scott Cowan [01:00:55]:

It’s okay. You’re doing you’re doing good.

Eric Phillips [01:00:57]:

I’m faking it. Right? Right.

Scott Cowan [01:00:59]:

You’re fake well, don’t say that.

Eric Phillips [01:01:00]:

Well, I’m in sales. So, you know, the I can sell it. Right? We actually had a cold brew line. We had a cold brew Right.

Scott Cowan [01:01:08]:

Right.

Eric Phillips [01:01:09]:

Company. Not not even the cider. We actually had a cold brew company that we had for a while. We we sold that off anyway. So I think she likes the, like, the medium roast more like chocolatey, like deep flavor stuff, you know, versus, like, light roast. You know, she’ll also do, like, she likes, you know, like, shots in her coffee when she goes the, which is espresso. Right?

Scott Cowan [01:01:33]:

Espresso. Yeah.

Eric Phillips [01:01:33]:

Nail it. Look at me. I know coffee.

Scott Cowan [01:01:35]:

Yeah. You’re just it’s almost like you’ve had it.

Eric Phillips [01:01:37]:

Yeah. Exactly. No. She she definitely enjoys it. She’s, you know, likes likes a cup in the morning, can function without it, probably functions better with it like a lot of people I’ve heard, You know? Which which, you know, might be my reason for not doing this. Like, I don’t yeah. I’ve also had never had a glass of milk. So if we really wanna get weird yeah.

Scott Cowan [01:01:58]:

Wow.

Eric Phillips [01:01:58]:

Just Okay. But I love cheese. You know?

Scott Cowan [01:02:02]:

Interesting.

Eric Phillips [01:02:03]:

About dairy products. It’s just

Scott Cowan [01:02:04]:

That’s interesting.

Eric Phillips [01:02:05]:

Vanilla milkshakes. I love vanilla milkshakes, man. I had one yesterday.

Scott Cowan [01:02:10]:

So why don’t you drink milk?

Eric Phillips [01:02:11]:

It’s just weird to me. I think when I was, like, a kid going to the fair and participating in the fair, I just got weirded out by just the idea. I mean, what you know, not trying to be grotesque, but what was the first person thinking? They were probably thinking they saw someone nursing on it and figured out

Scott Cowan [01:02:26]:

what the

Eric Phillips [01:02:26]:

connection, but also, like, what was the first person thinking when they were getting mugged from a cow?

Scott Cowan [01:02:30]:

You know? Yeah. Okay.

Eric Phillips [01:02:31]:

Or, like, you know, those udders, I just I’m a little worried about it. You know?

Scott Cowan [01:02:37]:

Okay. I mean, okay. When you put it like that Yeah. Could understand.

Eric Phillips [01:02:40]:

But I mean okay. But also, it’s just so much. It’s so much to have a glass of milk. You know?

Scott Cowan [01:02:44]:

Okay.

Eric Phillips [01:02:45]:

Like, if we’re talking like an ounce, like, sure, man. I mean, But, you know, for me, milkshakes. Ice cream sandwiches, I love them.

Scott Cowan [01:02:52]:

Okay. Yeah. So just okay. I love your guys’ website, by the way.

Eric Phillips [01:02:56]:

It’s pretty fun. Right? They’ve done Yeah. Our marketing team. I I Mike did a, Mike Garrett did a, revamp of the website, and he’s just done a fantastic job. You know, it’s it’s fun and interactive, and I love it too because you get to see immediately when you get on the website. You get to see this the can scroll by, and you get you’re like, okay. This is different. You know? Like, why, you know, this is a cider company? Like, what are they you know? There’s a voice, this brand recognition.

Eric Phillips [01:03:22]:

People don’t you know? Sometimes they’ll be like, oh, yeah. My favorite cider. I can’t remember the name of it. And I’d be like, well, like, you know, does it have a flamingo on it? They’re like, yeah. That’s the one. Like, oh, okay. Cool. That’s us.

Eric Phillips [01:03:34]:

Or they’re or they’ll be like, yeah. I can’t remember. It’s got, like, this, giraffe in a oh, man. Like, in a in a space helmet. And they’re like, yeah. Yeah. Well, that’s my favorite cider. I’m like, oh, cool.

Eric Phillips [01:03:44]:

Well, we make that, and it’s called Excelsior. You know? So I just think that there’s a connection there. Right? Because sometimes you go to the store and you’re like, yeah. What does that can? You know? And you’re like, oh, I can’t remember it. You know? And this one, you’re like, yeah. How can I forget that? You know? It’s not even gonna remember it. You can’t forget it.

Scott Cowan [01:04:00]:

So I just stumbled on something on your website that I had not seen before. And remember when I I probably told you this when we talked on the phone. I don’t do a lot of preparation because I like to have that sense of wonderment. Like, oh, wow.

Eric Phillips [01:04:10]:

Sure.

Scott Cowan [01:04:12]:

You have a recipe book.

Eric Phillips [01:04:13]:

Oh, yeah. Amanda, our director of creative, created this, recipe book. And I’m hoping our marketing team is growing like like crazy right now, and they’re doing some really fantastic stuff that hopefully we’ll, you know, we’ll get to see later this year. For the holidays, she created this recipe book for, like, Thanksgiving, and we actually had, tearaways where we, you know, we’d have, you know, stacks of our cider and, hey, you know, brine your turkey in this. Make this this way, you know, London dry or whatever it was. Yeah. It’s fantastic with baking. And so, you know, I think long term, there’s we’re gonna have some opportunity around, you know, having that available.

Eric Phillips [01:04:52]:

Whether that’s for download for people or really, you know, growing that.

Scott Cowan [01:04:56]:

You know, people pair beverages with food all the time. Right? And so I I’m looking here. We got a the Schilling hard cider, turkey brine. Yeah. And okay. Got a mold mold hard hard cider. That’s that’s that’s pretty common. But, you know, then we’ve got, you know, cider bread with maple butter, caramelized apple mac and cheese.

Eric Phillips [01:05:19]:

Yeah. I haven’t made that one.

Scott Cowan [01:05:21]:

That one looks interesting. I’ll pass on the squash because, you know, I’ll just drink the can instead

Eric Phillips [01:05:27]:

of putting it with squash.

Scott Cowan [01:05:28]:

But no. I there’s some this is kinda cool.

Eric Phillips [01:05:32]:

Yeah. It’s actually you know, one of the things that we lean into and it’s it’s interesting because we you kinda grow in different ways, right, as a company. And and, you know, the first thing was, well, we have to be sustainable. We have to be able to actually, you know, pay the bills and all those things. Right? And then Sure. Then becomes, you know, what are the things we’re good at? Let’s double down on that. What are the things we wanna be good at? Okay. Let’s let’s research that Early on as a way for selling into the on premise, which is like bars and restaurants, right? You drink the drink on the premise.

Eric Phillips [01:06:02]:

So we would make cocktail recipes. So we actually had a bunch of cocktail recipes. And if people have been fans for Schilling for a while, they’ll remember that on the backs of our cans, we actually had cocktail recipes.

Scott Cowan [01:06:14]:

Okay.

Eric Phillips [01:06:15]:

We have since moved away from that to the storytelling made portion of it. Right? But we will eventually have, you know, more cocktail recipes there. Like we’ve paired a Celsier with some whiskeys, you know? And it just really brings out this whole other character in both products. We’ve done one of my like, I’m not sure. You’ll be you’ll be my litmus test on this one. One that was called, Paloma Escobar.

Scott Cowan [01:06:43]:

Eric Phillips [01:06:44]:

And it was a grapefruit. Right? Yeah. I I thought you’d like it. Yeah. So I came up with

Scott Cowan [01:06:48]:

that one.

Eric Phillips [01:06:48]:

I thought that was pretty funny.

Scott Cowan [01:06:49]:

I like that.

Eric Phillips [01:06:50]:

I like that. Pretty good. So, anyway, so we have that one. Paloma Escobar was a grapefruit, you know, cider cocktail mix. We’ve done some, like, gin based cocktails. So, yeah, we have this whole cocktail book that’ll eventually make it up on the website, and so super fun, you know? People don’t think about that, but, you know, we’re not the first to do it, but it was just exciting to explore that. You know, we had one called, One Way Ticket, and it was with our pineapple passion fruit cider. It was called passport.

Eric Phillips [01:07:17]:

Right? So it’s kind of a plan, that travel theme. Yeah. Yeah. And it was, it was with rum. Right? And it was obviously like a higher kinda hit you, you know Yeah. Drink, and that’s why one way ticket. Right? It wasn’t round trip.

Scott Cowan [01:07:28]:

You’re Wasn’t round trip. Yeah. Okay. So Well, we always to wrap this up to respect your time and all that, what here’s my get out of free jail card, which is what I say at every episode. What didn’t I ask you that we should have talked about? Did we did I miss something?

Eric Phillips [01:07:43]:

No. You know, I I I appreciate it. I think we covered the really fun things. You know?

Scott Cowan [01:07:48]:

Yeah.

Eric Phillips [01:07:49]:

We what I would I would encourage people if they’re interested in Schilling, you know, reach out to us. We love hearing from people. You know, if we’re doing something we would love to see more of, great. Tell us. You know, we’re always open to that. You know? Right. I’m excited personally to have had the opportunity to just talk about how we you know, I don’t want to say invented because that’s like no one had ever done it before, but we really started the imperial cider category and Sure. You know, have solidified that as a brand building thing.

Eric Phillips [01:08:16]:

And I’m excited the most exciting release I’m thinking about this next year, we also have a Moscow mule cider that’s coming out. So we kind of did the cocktail mix for you. It’ll come in large nineteen two cans.

Scott Cowan [01:08:28]:

Okay.

Eric Phillips [01:08:28]:

So those will be coming out. Those will hit grocery stores here in March. But the one I’m the most excited about is it’s I mean, Excelsior is amazing. Don’t get me wrong. But, like, we elevated above Excelsior with this brand new release of this Red Globe with those red flesh apples. I mean, it’s it’s the idea of large scale bringing the terroir concept into cider making with things that aren’t available to everyone. Right? You can’t have fresh pressed juice outside the Pacific Northwest in the volume that we’re talking about. Right? A lot of people have to bring it from the Pacific Northwest in concentrate, reconstitute it to make their cider.

Eric Phillips [01:09:07]:

Great. If that’s all you can do, I get it. Right? But that’s why we started here, you know? And that’s the thing that’s exciting about it for me is having access to these beautiful, loosey glow apples and having that be, you know, just, you know, in the same state a couple hours away where they’re pressing it and it’s in, you know, our tanks the same day. Like, that just it just wows me, you know, still. And I and I’ve done this for, you know, better part of nine years. I’m still excited about that, and I’m genuinely so excited about that, you know. So, yeah, I don’t know. That’s it.

Eric Phillips [01:09:41]:

Like, I’m just I’m just really pumped about Excelsior. I’m just pumped about the new release of it and and just getting to grow that brand and getting to connect with people through, you know, like, the idea of drinking. You know, the idea of

Scott Cowan [01:09:55]:

When is the new the when is it supposed to hit shelves?

Eric Phillips [01:09:59]:

Right around the March. Yeah. So you’ll

Scott Cowan [01:10:01]:

see Okay.

Eric Phillips [01:10:02]:

You’ll see it right around the March. You should see it in a fair amount of stores. I don’t have the total count right now, but I’m really excited. It you should be able to find it. You know?

Scott Cowan [01:10:12]:

Okay. Yeah. And then let’s let’s circle back to we’re gonna have to talk about Oregon for a second. Sure. Sure. But your your tap rooms. So you’ve got two, but the website indicates there’s one currently under renovations in Auburn. Is that accurate?

Eric Phillips [01:10:24]:

Yeah. That’s a great, that’s a great question. So we grew so we had plans to we had a cider house we had excuse me. We had a taproom at our Mhmm. Headquarters. I recently had a gentleman who I’ve worked with in the industry for a long time, and he came, and he hadn’t been here in probably, like, I don’t know, a year and a half. Not a long time for a facility to change. He was genuinely floored and used a lot of expletives and is a, you know, is a church going gentleman.

Eric Phillips [01:10:53]:

And so it was fun to just watch this just pop up in his mind, you know, he’s like, what? It what? We’ve grown we grew so rapidly that the space that was originally dedicated for the taproom here has been filled up with people’s desks. And I think that that’s a really important thing, you know. And maybe one day we’ll be able to get back to it as we get the backspace and maybe, you know, some other Mhmm. Some other space around here. But as it currently stands, we don’t have the taproom here for that reason because we’ve been able to employ we doubled we doubled in staff last year in 2020.

Scott Cowan [01:11:28]:

So how many people are working for Schelling then?

Eric Phillips [01:11:30]:

We’re right around the 50 mark. That’s not including, like, the side that’s, like, including the cider house, like, managers, but not the Right. The full staff. So we’re including that, we’re probably, like, close to, like, sixty, sixty five.

Scott Cowan [01:11:42]:

Alright. So

Eric Phillips [01:11:42]:

still pretty small where, you know, I think only I was gone for, like, a week on vacation, then came back, and there were two new people who I’d never met. And so it was just really interesting. It’s like, oh, we’re like kind of this company, but we don’t, you know, we will like, but now I know them, you know, and it’s been like, you know, two weeks. It’s like, oh, I know them well, you know. Right. But, yeah, we doubled the staff last year. We hired 10 people already in the the first two, weeks of the year.

Scott Cowan [01:12:09]:

Wow. Yeah. So Okay.

Eric Phillips [01:12:11]:

Really exciting. You know? Just to be able to provide that for people, you know, and not like we’re doing them a a great service, but there’s a lot of really bad work environments, you know, and to be the difference maker, you know, in that win, you know, it’s exciting. Alright.

Scott Cowan [01:12:28]:

Well, anything else that we should make sure we say?

Eric Phillips [01:12:31]:

If you get a chance, go to the cider house. Check it out. They’re both lovely people. They’re just the best. And if you get in you know, if if you’re super excited about this stuff, you know, hit us up. We always love talking about it, and go out and get yourself here. Like, just give it a go. You know? Some people are turned off by the giraffe.

Eric Phillips [01:12:50]:

You know? Some people don’t love that type of branding. They’re like, oh, it’s, like, gonna be cheap and whatever. I can tell you that I I put this cider up in a blind test against most ciders out there. And, I think you’re gonna be surprised if you haven’t ever tried it. I I know that there’s, you know, certain beers that I haven’t tried because of that, and now I try it. And I’m like, oh, man. Like, I love this. Are you kidding? Like, why was I doing that to myself? So Right.

Eric Phillips [01:13:13]:

Give it a try. Give it a try.

Scott Cowan [01:13:14]:

Okay. And we’ll put some links to your website and all that in the in the show notes so people can can take a look at the site and that quickly and, you know, find out. Well, I will ask this last question. So drop some names of places where your sighters are available in Washington.

Eric Phillips [01:13:29]:

Absolutely. All major grocery chains. So you’ve got your Safeways. You got your Kiosys. You got your Fred Meyers. You’ve got we’re we’re in a bunch more Walmart’s now, Whole Foods, PCC, Met Market. Trader Joe’s is a great place, especially with our seasonals. The Trader Joe’s has been awesome for us.

Eric Phillips [01:13:50]:

Your, you know, your some of your local convenience stores, honestly, if you don’t see it, ask for it because we’re working hard out there. And, you know, we love any any help. You know?

Scott Cowan [01:14:00]:

K. Yeah. Alright. Well, I really appreciate you doing this. This is a lot of fun for me, and, I’m gonna go I think I might actually drive to the store today and and grab some Excelsior and give it a shot because I haven’t tried it. And I I wanna I’m gonna go check it out.

Eric Phillips [01:14:13]:

Yeah. Well, let me let me know. I’ve watched our honest feedback.

Scott Cowan [01:14:15]:

I will. I’ll I’ll give you some feedback. Alright.

Eric Phillips [01:14:17]:

Awesome, Scott. Alright. Take care. Thank you very much. Bye. Alright.

Scott Cowan [01:14:30]:

Join us next time for another episode of the exploring Washington state podcast.

Exploring Washington State Podcast( Podcaster )

The Exploring Washington State Podcast is your go-to source for discovering the diverse wonders of the Evergreen State. Whether you’re seeking inspiration for your next adventure, looking to savor local cuisine, or eager to learn about the businesses and artists that call Washington home, this podcast has something for everyone. Join us as we showcase the splendor of Washington State, reminding you that “there is always more to explore!”

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