Roddy Scheer: Just What is Roadside Ecology Anyways?

Roddy Scheer author of Oregon and Washington’s Roadside Ecology: 33 Easy Walks Through the Region’s Amazing Natural Areas  is my guest for this episode.

We talk about his latest book and how he was able to write it while maintaining balance with his home life.  Being a environmental focused writer writing about hikes does require a bit of time on the road.

Roddy Scheer Roadside Ecology Episode Transcript

Roddy Scheer: [00:00:00]:

There there’s terrible hikes down there. They’re just I wouldn’t even bother. No. Just kidding. Welcome

Todd Phillips [00:00:20]:

to the Exploring Washington State Podcast, Here’s your host, Scott Cowen.

Scott Cowan [00:00:31]:

Okay. Well, welcome back to this episode of the Exploring Washington State podcast. Today, my guest is Roddie Sheer. Roddie I was introduced to you because of a book, but I’m on your I’m on your website, and and I’m seeing photography. I’m seeing well writing. but music. So I want you to introduce yourself, but I’m gonna put you on the spot. I wanna hear about the music first before we talk about what you were planning to talk to me about.

Roddy Scheer: [00:00:56]:

Okay. Great. Yeah. I’ve been strumming a guitar since I was a little kid, and As a teenager, I got into some bands and recording on little cassette 4 tracks and stuff. And I basically continued those adolescent pursuits through my adult life. And I’ve been in a series of as I call them old man bands. And yeah. So I still have a lot of fun doing it, and I still do a ton of home recording. Okay. And now I can release all my music that I want out onto all the streaming services because it’s so easy to do that now. So I decided when I when I turned 50 that I would

Scott Cowan [00:01:46]:

let the world hear all the stuff I’ve been recording in my basement for years. So It’s all streaming out there now. That’s cool. Alright. Well, thank you for playing along when I throw you under the bus just to start the episode out. But Yeah. We are here today because you’ve just released well, your publisher just released it. But your book, Oregon — Mhmm. in Washington’s roadside ecology, and I’m gonna tease you about the Oregon part. But and so we got 33 easy walks through the region’s amazing natural areas. First off, as I told you before we hit record, I’ll say it down, but the record button. This is an impressive looking book. So congratulations on not only a nicely written book, but it it beautifully the photography is beautiful. So we’re gonna we’ll delve into that, but what’s the backstory? How’d you end up on this project?

Roddy Scheer: [00:02:36]:

Yeah. Well, the concept is basically borrowed from Mountain Press as a publisher. They had a series that they started releasing in the early seventies called roadside Geology. and that’s a series of books which details geological features and curiosities around the given region covered. And since the seventies, they put out those geology guidebooks basically for all 50 states and, you know, a lot of us keep a copy of the one for our state and our glove compartments of our cars, and you’re driving around somewhere, and you can check out, you know, your itinerary against what’s in the book and see if there’s any cool, like, you know, geological features sticking out of a of a cliff face that you’re gonna happen to be going by on your trip out to Wenatchee to visit you, Scott, or whatever it may be. So the the that idea sort of spawned the idea of a roadside ecology series kind of along the same lines where you could be driving around a given region like the northwest in my case. And you know, look ahead against what’s in the book and stop for a little leg stretch along the way. Do a short hike or even a roadside pull out to visit some cool ecological feature or a, you know, a unique type of a meadow that that happens to be in the part of Central Washington that you’re driving through. And it might not be it might not be the most famous hiking location, but it’s it’s more likely an off the beat off the beaten path area that is typical of a natural ecological relationship between the wild living things in in that place. And it can kind of introduce you to the ecology of that region while you’re there. and then you can, you know, get back in the car, put the book back in the glove compartment, and roll on, you know, to your destination or whatever. So it’s a great way to kind of you know, if you if you did all the hikes in the book, there’s there’s 18 in my home state of Washington in 30 15 in Oregon. But if you, you know, did all the hikes in the book, you’d be driving all around the northwest, basically, seeing a lot of really incredible, beautiful areas, you know, for the most part away from the city. So anyway, the idea for the book came about when timber press, which is a Portland, Oregon based publisher that’s, you know, got a deep catalog and what I’d call them history among other things, was consulting with one of their long standing art authors this guy named Tom Lessles, who is a terrestrial ecologist and professor Emeritus at Antioch University of New England. He he was consulting with him on on a new book that he could write for them, and he suggested the roadside Ecology concept basically, and and said that he would write the first one for New England, which he did, and they put that out in September 2021. In the meantime, they contacted me and asked if I was interested in doing the, you know, Northwest version of the book, and it was a a job I didn’t have to think twice about accepting. So, you know, I I realized right away after talking to Stacy, the acquisitions editor there, that I’d be able to combine, you know, the sort of 2 aspects of my career that I love, which is the desk work side, like research and writing, and the field work side, you know, hiking, kayaking, swimming, photography, that kind of thing. out into the wild. So so I, you know, I I started putting together a a site list, and ran up by them and then went out and and got busy researching and writing.

Scott Cowan [00:06:40]:

How long did it take you to put together the site list?

Roddy Scheer: [00:06:45]:

Well, I’d say probably about 2 weeks of you know, Internet research, basically. I have been writing about this region in Washington and Greater Seattle for about 20 years as a travel writer for Seattle Magazine And Northwest Travel and some other places. So I I have a pretty and I’ve also been a, you know, professional photographer during that whole time too. So I have a pretty good idea of what’s out there in Washington state, and I’ve explored it pretty extensively in the past. So I was at an advantage in that regard in terms of knowing generally, like, that I needed to have a, you know, a temporary rainforest hike on the Olympic Peninsula. in the book and that it and the idea behind all the hikes in the book is that they’re short, like, two miles or less total, you know, round trip. and that anyone can do them in general. They’re not all handicap accessible, but some of them are. But in general, you know, they’re easy and short and you can bring your kids and you can bring grandma or whatever. It should be no problem in general. So those were the limiting factors on selecting the you know, they have to be short and easy to access near the road and kind of illustrative of you know, different ecological relationships from each other as each place is unique, and the web of life there is different accordingly as well. k. So in general, you know, I was trying to kind of point out the differences to the casual visitor between these different places and what made makes them tick. in terms of the ecology and the relationship between the organisms there. k.

Scott Cowan [00:08:39]:

I always wanna ask, like, the impulse of questions, which is, like, what was your favorite hike? That’s, like, saying, what’s your favorite kid? But — Yep. — I’d I’d put you on the spot. Well, I’ll put you on the spot about Oregon. because — Yep. — you know, we’re Washington.

Roddy Scheer: [00:08:52]:

Yep. Then there’s terrible hikes down there. They’re just I wouldn’t even bother. No. Just kidding.

Scott Cowan [00:09:00]:

I love the the checks in the mail. But I do live in Washington. Yes. Oh my gosh. I I love that. I to be to be completely transparent, I did not look at any of the Oregon content. Not because I didn’t want to, because I honestly ran out of time. of the of the hikes that you you you you documented in in Oregon. In your opinion, share with us one that you think is maybe I don’t wanna say off the beaten path, but maybe wouldn’t pop to somebody’s, you know, forefront — Yeah. — instantly. So, like, Right. And what? Why why did you pick this? Yeah. Well,

Roddy Scheer: [00:09:36]:

I I definitely have one in mind. But just in general, regarding Oregon. I I I do I have done a lot of regional travel writing, and much more of it has been in Washington where I’m from. I live in Seattle. And so Oregon to me still does seem a bit exotic, you know, in terms of — Yeah. You know, I don’t know it like the back of my hand. But and therefore, it’s wonderful because I can drive a few hours and see amazing things that I haven’t been by a million times. You know? Right. So in that regard, I do think it’s it’s it’s an amazing place. And one place that really blew my mind was the John Dave fossil beds. Okay. It’s basically Northeast, Oregon. And if you’re driving down to Bend or you know, even Eugene, you could kind of go the long way for you where you are, I guess, in Central Washington. I was gonna say — Be a little easier. But — — to northeast circuit. That’s all. Yeah. Okay. Alright. But, you know, I’m saying, you know, you could loop around that way and and or just make it a trip on on its own. It’s it’s remote and wild. There aren’t really many hotels or whatever. You’re probably better off camping, but, I mean, you know, there are places to stay. But, anyway, there there are these kind of psychedelic colors on the hillsides because of various you know, erosion and geological features going on there. So that’s one place that that really get you out of the, you know, definitely out of the Western Washington comfort zone of Douglas Furs and dripping wet, you know, pine needles and stuff. So — Okay.

Scott Cowan [00:11:34]:

Yeah. And, I mean, then, you know, there’s

Roddy Scheer: [00:11:37]:

obviously, lots of other cool areas. I had never really been around in and around Bend before. Oh, okay. — love the the lava lava lands. you know, hikes and stuff like that where

Scott Cowan [00:11:49]:

as I say, you know, also just it’s much different from anything I’ve encountered in Washington. So And I I totally give Oregon a hard time as a as a joke because it’s a it’s beautiful as well. Mhmm. And of it. You know? If I was doing the exploring Oregon podcast that giving maybe giving Washington a hard time. So it’s it’s it’s all good and fun. Yeah. And Ben is great. I I Ben is a beautiful area, and Eugene is I’ve had fun in Eugene. Mhmm. I always ask this question. And so I’m gonna do this up this interview a little differently because I I’m pro we’re probably gonna bounce back and forth between Washington and Oregon. But one of the questions I always ask my guests is, you know, do you are you a coffee drinker? Yes. Okay. So in Oregon, I’ve never asked this question before. Where’s a great cup of coffee you’ve had in Oregon?

Roddy Scheer: [00:12:34]:

Mhmm. Yeah. I don’t know about that one, really. Really? Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:12:45]:

You can you can make this off, but no one will check it. You know what? Yeah. Right.

Roddy Scheer: [00:12:50]:

Okay. Yeah. I’m not a super coffee kind of source. No. You don’t have to be. It’s just I I’ll drink diner coffee. I drink jasmine coffee. You know? Yep. Yep. Yep. Let me think. Yeah. I’ll tell you where you can’t get it, and that is in southeastern, Oregon. I mean, that is one place if you look on my map of the book, the tie there’s maps at the beginning of each section, and there are sites you know, all over the states, all over the 2 states, but there’s no sites that’s out east are working because I drove around in there. Mhmm. And there was definitely no $5 coffee. anywhere.

Scott Cowan [00:13:34]:

You know, that part of the country. So — I’m gonna rephrase my question from now. Where’s the best place to get a $5 cup of coffee? I — Yeah. Okay. Alright. So — So when you when you I I’m just kinda fascinated by the whole book process

Roddy Scheer: [00:13:52]:

Mhmm.

Scott Cowan [00:13:53]:

Did you do this? Did you, like, go down to Oregon and do all the Oregon part? Or did you go to you know, or did you mix and match? Or how how did you go about this?

Roddy Scheer: [00:14:03]:

Yeah. I I this is a strange kind of assignment or or travel trip doing this kind of a book because I live in Seattle with a wife and kids and I have regular responsibilities, you know, here, work and otherwise at home. So so my time to get away from those responsibilities is is limited. So to do a book like this, you really have to hit the road. I have a VW know, camper van. So I’m all set there, but I — Oh, wow. — to

Scott Cowan [00:14:40]:

yeah. Euro van with a with a pop top. Well, the oh, you’re okay. Alright. Yeah. I was gonna say you were a brave man if you took it, like, with with the old Vanagon or dare dare to say — Yep. — the bread loaf. Okay. Right. Right. Nope. Not that.

Roddy Scheer: [00:14:53]:

So, anyway, I kind of picked the sites and then I spent about, I guess, really mostly 2 weeks driving around Oregon, basically, covering the whole state, doing all the, you know, 15 hikes covered in the book. they’re all short hikes, but, you know, they’re the the so they don’t necessarily take a long time to hike them each On the one hand, on the other hand, I’m taking a lot of pictures along each hike, and and each picture requires being on a tripod and all that stuff. So it takes me a lot longer to hike 2 miles than the average the average bear. You’d still probably be faster than me. Even with taking your photos, I’d still probably pull up behind what I’m done. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So so, anyway, you know and then getting between the hikes, you know, I I’d have to drive, you know, 2 hours between each or whatever, and so I had a limited amount of time that I could be away. And so I had to plan this all very carefully, and I had, you know, on June 18th or whatever might be I I’d have to hit, you know, 3 different trails, and they’re each 2 hours apart or whatever. And then I I’d have to take notes and pictures and stuff. So And if I slip behind or I had a long lunch or I didn’t wake up early enough or something like that, I would be behind, and then I wouldn’t, you know, have time by the trip, you know, and then I’d be in a different region the next day. So I had to kinda keep you the schedule. And so it was it was an odd combination of doing kind of a dream trip where, you know, I was basically getting paid to drive all over the beautiful areas of Oregon and Washington and being, you know, on the clock on deadline, you know, with with limited limited time. So anyway, I took about 2 weeks total, I think, in Oregon, and I did all the research and pictures then. And then likewise, I did about probably another 2 weeks at a different time frame a month later. So in Washington, Actually, Washington, I did 3 different weeklong trips or or even shorter instead because I live here. So I would do, like, the Olympic Peninsula or whatever, and So Washington was a little more I could I could do a piecemeal. But, anyway, that’s that’s how it came to be. And then I did all the research and had all these notes and pictures, and then they sat around, you know, in my files for for months. And then it came down time to to write, and it was, like, full on pandemic time, which was actually great for doing a project like this. And then I just spent months and months, you know, filling in all the blanks and the details. So so, yeah, so that’s a long answer to a short question. So yeah. So

Scott Cowan [00:17:41]:

from the day that you got the green light to do the project to the day that it was published. About how long was that period of time?

Roddy Scheer: [00:17:51]:

I think about

Scott Cowan [00:17:53]:

2 years. Okay. Yeah. About 2 years from — Yeah. Yeah. Con green light to to on the

Roddy Scheer: [00:18:01]:

on the shelves, if you will. Yeah. Yeah. And I’m actually now this is out. I’m working on another book in the series Roadside ecology on Yellowstone National Park, but we can talk about that later. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:18:12]:

We’ll we’ll circle back to that. Okay. Yep. So in the Washington, did you did you take your kids with you at all? Do they do they go with do they

Roddy Scheer: [00:18:24]:

No. In general, you know, as I said, I’m so kind of on a schedule that Well, on the one hand and, you know, it’s also my time to be away from the family, in my opinion. You know? Do you want us to cut that out? Off at work. Do you want us to cut it? They know. They know. Oh, okay. Okay. So, you know, I do relish those chances that get away. I mean, I’ve done a lot of traveling around the region with my, you know, wife and kids and, like, every summer we go out to Ross Lake and stuff like that. So, yeah, So they they’ve been with me many many times. But, you know, in this kind of situation, it’s it’s a lot. And also, no one really likes hiking with a photographer that much because, you know, you’ll stop and and linger over some wild flower, you know, with your tripod for 20 minutes and then race on to the next par, you know, at 90 miles an hour and stuff like that. So, yeah, So I let I I view this as rotty time. You know? Okay. Well — Mhmm. — you know, I think you were warned that these conversations

Scott Cowan [00:19:36]:

don’t have a linear path. They’re kinda meander around. Let’s touch on the photography for a second. What what’s your name? Also yeah.

Roddy Scheer: [00:19:44]:

and this relates to photography as well. But as of my landscape painter, a friend of mine often said, you know, he he didn’t really want people around to watch the sausage being made. So I’ll add that to my own stuff as well. But anyway, good enough.

Scott Cowan [00:19:58]:

What sort of gear are you using these days?

Roddy Scheer: [00:20:04]:

Nikon. Nikon Digital, digital, you know, DSLRs — Mhmm. — and lenses. I do a lot of more casual photography in my life with my iPhone, and I love taking pictures with my iPhone. k. and I do a lot of panoramic photos with the iPhone and close ups as well — Okay. — which are well, you know, which the iPhone is uniquely suited to do really easily on both counts. But for this book and any, you know, published book, the quality of those photos is not nearly good enough And so I, you know, had to go back to my old school camera gear, you know, Nikon stuff and tripods and all that. So, yeah, that’s pretty much what I did for the book even though it was kind of a rude awakening. What model Nikon are you were you using? I think most of this was on the d 72100,

Scott Cowan [00:21:11]:

I believe. Okay. Alright. Yeah. because I have a d 750 and Oh, yeah. That’s that’s the full frame. Yeah. It’s full frame. And you can, like get muscular by carrying the thing around. That’s kinda where I was going. It’s like Yeah.

Roddy Scheer: [00:21:27]:

Yeah. I would never this is the

Scott Cowan [00:21:32]:

the smaller sensor than what you have. So yeah. It’s a great that’s a great camera body too. But I was wondering is, like, I had this vision of you slapping around, you know, multiple camera bodies and

Roddy Scheer: [00:21:45]:

Yeah. I am. Well, I do I do have a few bodies, and I also have been doing a lot of shooting with Sony Sony a 63100. And I do I’ve been getting into that a little bit, and I use that a lot for time lapses. Oh, really? — also a fun thing that I love doing that which has, you know, no application in a book like this, but it’s a fun thing to do photographably.

Scott Cowan [00:22:12]:

Yeah. So using the 63100 for time lapses.

Roddy Scheer: [00:22:15]:

Yeah. I mean, those things have you know, they’re basically little computers with you know, sensors on them and — Yeah. — they just do all the the intervolometer is built in and really easy to set at whatever settings you want. And pop the thing on a tripod, and it’s amazing you can use. I can use my Nikon Glass on it because it has an adapter. So you know, I can do a time lapse with a Nikon FISH Island or whatever on the Sony body.

Scott Cowan [00:22:45]:

It’s fun stuff. Wait a second. Wait. Wait. Wait. you didn’t know this was gonna be camera 101 for Scott. But so using an a a Sony a 63100 — Mhmm. — with Nikon Glass, What are you using? What’s the adapter that you’re using? I forget what it’s called,

Roddy Scheer: [00:23:01]:

but it’s, you know, a simple just a little like a like sort of one of those step up ring type of things. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s specifically made for that, and it was not expensive. And it’s a great you know, and the Sony’s have adapters for whatever. If you have Canon or whatever, you can get 1. So it’s great because I can you know, I have like a pre extreme selection of lenses so I can use them on that.

Scott Cowan [00:23:27]:

Isn’t it fun when you’re when you talk to photographers, you know, you you know, I I could so why haven’t you switched to Canon or vice versa? It’s always always as well because see this bag of lenses here that can’t afford to replace.

Roddy Scheer: [00:23:44]:

Yep. Yep.

Scott Cowan [00:23:45]:

Yeah. My buddy of mine, in fact, he’s the guy that’ll be editing this podcast. He’s got a pretty extensive Canon, you know, collection, and I went with Nikon. And we’re still friends, but it’s Mhmm. Mhmm. But I’m the reason I ask about the the the so much the Sony is that I’m this podcast the video that I’m using is an a 63100. Oh, is it okay? Yeah. Yeah. And I’m like, well, wait a second. Okay. I just use it as a I mean, it’s a great little to me, it’s a point and shoot. It’s I’m not a photographer. I have no real skills. I just think the gear is kind of fun. Yep.

Roddy Scheer: [00:24:21]:

I am gonna be also — — downside of that camera is they get dusty. The

Scott Cowan [00:24:25]:

a 6 to 300, like, if you change lenses, it’s just dust city in there and you gotta cleaning out all the time. But anyway This would this is not part of the podcast script, but no. There is a script, but I’m gonna ask you to give me your best iPhone photo tip.

Roddy Scheer: [00:24:44]:

Yeah. I mean, I love using the just close-up functionality of it, of any the I just recently got an iPhone 13, but I’ve been I’ve been on a SC 2020 for the last 2 years or something. And with any of them, you can go into like, I love going right up into a flower. It’s a great thing to do this time of year. and

Scott Cowan [00:25:09]:

just zooming right in from maybe, you know, this far away, you know, close pretty close. So then zoom in — — a foot just since this is this is an audio product, please. Right. Approximately a foot. Yep.

Roddy Scheer: [00:25:21]:

And then zoom in right into the center of the flower, and you can just get a lot of abstract looking really colorful, you know, sort of frame filling spring flower images that way, and I do a lot of that on my Instagram account. So it’s pretty much all this flower flower close ups and other semi abstract looking natural things.

Scott Cowan [00:25:46]:

Okay. So that’s yeah. One of my favorite things. Yeah. We’ll come back to that because we we kind of jumped already into things other than your backstory, which we’re gonna probably well, I can’t tell you. We’re moving this around. Mhmm. So the book Okay. Let’s talk about Washington then. In the Washington section, what’s Like, give me an example of something you were surprised by. Alright. Well,

Roddy Scheer: [00:26:12]:

I mean, I can just run through a little bit what I covered. You know, as I said, the hikes generally throughout the book tend to be a little more of urine off the beaten path than the average hike hiking trail. And they’re short so that it’s not like these are aren’t these the epic hikes a Washington state, you know, that everyone needs to do with their backpacks or anything. So, like, you know, I I visited sites on tribal lands. Like, the traditional knowledge trail on the Snokelomi Indians land. And on that hike, there are some little information placards throughout their hike. It’s, you know, I don’t know, half mile long or so. Talking about the different plants along the way that you’re encountering that are, you know, been there for 1000 years, the plants, and how the and then the the tribal names for them as well as the English names. And so in that write up, I detailed I put in a lot of details about how the Salish Indians and, you know, had used those plants that you encounter along the way in the hike Mhmm. And so, you know, there’s hikes in national wildlife for effigies like Billy Frank Esquale, national wildlife for a future just near Olympia. There’s a wheelchair accessible boardwalk there. and you can just anyone can can go and glimpse all kinds of waterfowl and raptors, you know, busy making a living out on the marshes. And let’s see. What else? there’s even something within an easy car biker bus ride from for Seattle lights, you know, or anyone visiting Seattle. in the created naturalistic wetlands of Magnuson Park, which is on the north side of the city here — Yeah. — about, I don’t know, 10 or 15 years ago, the city put a lot of money into restoring what had been basically like a like a naval air station into into a sort of riparian wetland zone like it may have been prehistorically. And they did a really amazing job. And so you can hike through there now, and there’s there’s this network of trails through there, and it’s this incredible wetlands. where there’s, you know, all kinds of all kinds of wildlife, you know, bird birds and ducks and there’s a, let’s see, Pacific Chorus frogs are are all, like, chirping through the through the the trees and stuff. So it’s it’s pretty amazing spot. So let’s see. What else? What else? A few of the hikes are along well known trails and national parks, and that included them to showcase particular ecological features there. and is a jumping off point for other, you know, exploring in those areas. Like, for instance, One of the hikes in the book is Nisquale Vista Trail in mount at Mount Rainier, which is right near Paradise. You can basically like access it from the Paradise parking lot. It’s a short trail. It’s paved, but it goes through this beautiful sub alpine fur forest that leads to an overlook of the Nisquale glacier, which is a, you know, big, huge shrinking glacier on the south facing flak of Mount right here. So I think it’s, like, about a half mile each way. Anyone can do it, and it gets you out into the forest, you know, among the trees and berries and wildflowers and wildlife, which are you know, I go into a lot of detail about all those things in the chapter. So, like, for instance, in that chapter, I go into a lot of detail about the the dominant tree species there are sub alpine first, and they you know, and then talk about what makes them tick biologically, reproductively, evolutionarily, etcetera. And then, you know, in between those trees, there’s cascadeasters, Indian paintbrush, Roosevelt Elkwandering around, you know, deer, all kind of commingling in this really biodiverse kind of, you know, preserved setting that that is really kind of other otherworldly. But then, you know, so I I describe all those details, and it might be a little more than you wanna know or, you know, it might be you know? But either way, it’s sort of educational. And I I started envision myself trying to be descriptive, like, thorough in Walden. I don’t know if you ever read that, but A long time. Yes. — back in school, and I was really pretty bored stiff by it. Although I do love Thoreau, and I love Walden, and I you know, it’s been very inspirational to me over the years. But so I was trying to combine that kind of attention to detail and celebration of the ecology with a little more sort of punch and spice, basically, to make it interesting to read. So that was sort of the goal. And then I’m also trying to besides going into the ecological details, I’m also trying to tie it into big picture when and where I can throughout the chapters like vis a vis climate change, and biodiversity of habitat loss. So, like, in the Nisquale Vista chapter, for instance, several paragraphs are devoted to the issue of climate change and the effects of it that you can actually witness along the trail. Like, for an obvious example, would be the shrinking glacier as the focal point of the hike and how, you know, due to climate change, since, you know, 18 60 or so, declarations were treated one and a half miles. And you know, that’s important because it nourishes the downstream valleys with a slow trickle of melt off every summer, and the plants and animals down below are dependent on that and have have evolved along with that kind of a setting. So if that goes away and those could be gone by, you know, 20 30, 2040, 2050 will see, it’s gonna affect everything down below. So You know, and I also I also drill down a little deeper and discuss how the warmer temperatures for climate change are causing the the sub alpine infers there to span into neighboring wildflower meadows, and those meadows have nowhere to go because you know, as temperatures get warmer and the trees rise up the mountain, the meadows can’t rise up any further. I mean, as you go higher up a conical mountain, there’s less land as you go higher enough. So, you know, the meadows are gonna be gone. You know, eventually, potentially theoretically thanks to global warming as the as the trees rise up and and get further, you know, higher higher elevation wise. So you know, in theory in the future there might not be amazing wildflower meadows all around the flanks of Mount Rainier like we’re all used to going and seeing in the summertime. So, you know, I I try to tie in the big picture and kind of the little picture about each of these spots. And that’s kind of the goal of the book and to to teach people something about

Scott Cowan [00:33:58]:

you know, how these things are all interrelated and and why we should appreciate them and visit them. And I think we you know, should all, you know, slow down just a little bit and pay pay a little bit more attention to our surroundings and be a little more present. Not to I’ll step off my soapbox, but, you know, that’s kind of just because we all tend to, you know, rush through life and not really as I do. Yep. Oh, I can’t I can only I can only speak for myself and blame myself for that. But So you draw around the 2 states. You you you took in all these shorter hikes that would be something that’s openly accessible for most everybody. Any big takeaways that you came away from with this project?

Roddy Scheer: [00:34:48]:

Well, really that nature really is pretty much outside all of our doorsteps, and that You know, it’s really you really only have yourself to blame if you’re not getting outside and breathing in some fresh air. and appreciating your natural surroundings, you know, because it’s so easy to do and it’s amazing out there. You know? And all of us are so locked into our screens and our, you know, phones, and I’m as guilty as the next guy. But but, you know, I am never as happy as when I’m out, you know, hiking alongside some meadow and I see a bald eagle flyby in the distance, and, you know, it’s it’s you know, I just feel like that’s the way we’re meant to be, and and, you know, we should all do our best to get out there. And and I hope my book can inspire people to do that. You know, just leave it in the car and if you’re going somewhere, check out the map, and maybe there’s one of the hikes along the way and, you know, get out and enjoy it.

Scott Cowan [00:36:05]:

So let’s table the book for a little bit. Mhmm. because we didn’t really get your backstory. Mhmm. So how do we get here? What so did you grow up in Washington?

Roddy Scheer: [00:36:17]:

No. I’m from Boston — Okay. — from the East Coast, and I spent my summers up in Maine mostly. And when I was in high school, I kind of discovered nature in the outdoors and started doing some hikes and stuff. And then in the summer of must have been 80 1989. I drove across country with a with a buddy and we endeavored to hike the Oregon section of the Pacific Crest Trail. And we were at I I guess, we’re 18 or 19, and completely inexperienced to the ways of backpacking so much so that we actually had a meeting with one of our high school teachers to inform us about how to buy a backpack, what to pack, all this stuff. So we do nothing about it. We’re total newbie And we just but we researched it all, and we even shipped food ahead. I don’t know if you ever done anything like that, but, you know, if you do this long track, you would ship, like, freeze dried foods ahead to little trailside outposts post offices along the way so that if you’re doing 4 weeks in Oregon, you would, you know, have a a mail stop along the way once a week and pick up more supplies. So So we had all that planned out, and then we got out to the West Coast, and we got down to Ashland. And took a taxi to the trailhead with our backpacks, which still cracks me up. There were such, you know, bad ass mountain men. We, like, held the cab, and got up to the trailhead, and this this guy pulls up in a pickup truck and sees us getting out of it with our brand new backpacks, and he pulls up with the pickup truck and as we’re hiking into the trail and rolls his window down, like, only an inch and and says, like, you better watch out for bears back there, and then he’s you know, races off, and we’re sort of like, you know, scared. So we get in there, and, you know, everything’s fine the 1st night, and then we are hiking the second day of this month long trick, and my friend springs his ankle. And we basically, like, hobble back to Ashland and got a motel room and went to the Shakespeare Festival Air for a couple nights. And hear from nurses’ ankle, and then we decided to skip the hiking trip, drove along, picked up our food caches at the backcountry post offices with our car and went along the way in our cross country drive. But anyway, so that that’s when I first came out to the to the northwest and really saw it. and did did kinda fall in love with it out there then and resolved that I would get back here and actually do some hiking. So That was the beginning of it all. And then eventually, about 10 years later, I ended up moving out here with to Seattle with my wife. So Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:39:34]:

When did you realize decide that you’re gonna be an author? When Is it cool that if you will? Well,

Roddy Scheer: [00:39:47]:

I still haven’t quite decided that, but, you know, now that I’m about 5 buck 5 books in, I guess, I am. But, really, I was kind of always on track to do environmental journalism. That was kind of my one of my passions, and I did that during school, and I majored and stuff like that. And so I I got my first job out of college. running a newsletter for an environmental nonprofit. And so along the way, I started taking some travel writing assignments and that eventually, as I said before, you know, the fact that I can write and take pictures makes me, you know, the quote unquote double threat so that publishers or magazine editors know that they can get someone who they don’t have to send 2 people out on the story. I can do both sides of it. And so that’s been good for me in terms of getting interesting magazine assignments and also you know, it’s it goes well with books too. So I did this on my first sort of traveler into book was Waterfall Heights of Washington, which is a guidebook from Falcon Guides. And So that was you know, that’s more of a traditional guidebook, and it was really fun to work on, and it’s out there now, and people like it. So you know, that so I but doing that and I’ve done a couple other books for Falcon in the meantime. But, you know, doing that really kinda wet my app at tight for going deeper into the subject matter in terms of the research and writing. And so that’s why this current book is really kind of a dream come true. But also in terms of writing, my kind of bread and butter day job is that I produce a weekly environmental q and a column called Earth Talk, and that is syndicated kind of dear Abby for the environment kind of a situation. And I write it or and or edit it, and I have a network of writers that work for me doing that. So that is kind of a I I do a lot of writing in that regard you know — Mhmm. — between the books, so to speak.

Scott Cowan [00:42:15]:

Where did you go to college at?

Roddy Scheer: [00:42:17]:

Harvard.

Scott Cowan [00:42:18]:

You went to Harvard? Yes. I would have thought you were a Yale man. Oh, yeah. Right. Yeah. How dare you? How dare you? How dare you? It had you said anywhere else I want to do to be done? That is great. That’s a great that’s a good one. Gonna remember that. So what what did you major in?

Roddy Scheer: [00:42:35]:

I was I majored in government and I I minored in environmental studies, which is was kind of a nascent department at that point. And I was actually on a faculty student committee to create the environmental studies major, which they subsequently, you know, enacted.

Scott Cowan [00:42:56]:

Just out of curiosity, this is totally not, you know, why Harvard? What what what made you Okay. I’m a West Coast guy my entire life. So — Yeah. — you know, Harvard I have this preconceived notion of Harvard. Mhmm. don’t know if it’s good or bad. I just have this preconceived notion of Harvard. So why Harvard?

Roddy Scheer: [00:43:18]:

Well, I grew up about three miles from Harvard so — Okay. — it was a pretty easy commute for one thing. But, you know, I mean, I and and that is to say I was very familiar with it. I used to go hang around in Harvard Square, you know, on the weekends occasionally anyway. I back to the music thing, I I’ve I’ve been bused on the streets of Harvard Square a couple times back in the day. Nice. Okay. But so it I had familiar familiarity going for it for me. Okay. But, really, I mean, I wouldn’t have done anything differently if I had the choice. I mean, it worked out great for me, and I met my wife there, and I had a great experience. But, you know, when it comes down to it, if you can get in, you know, it’s hard it’s hard to turn it down. So — Sure. Yeah. I’d say that’s that’s the real reason I probably chose it at the time. But on the other hand, I do think it’s great to use college and experience to get out of your comfort zone and go somewhere beyond three miles from your own house where you grew up. So you know, I don’t really recommend that to others, but, you know, someone coming from Seattle, I mean, to go to the East Coast, that’s that’s a whole another world. So — That’d be rough. — it’s a good way to go. So the this has nothing to do with anything

Scott Cowan [00:44:41]:

other than you grew up in in the Boston area. Mhmm. So I’m gonna give you 4 names. And you might not have anything to do with any of the four names, but I’m gonna make you pick 1. Alright. And if you if you were forced and you had to say you were a fan, Would it be the Patriots, the Bruins, the Celtics, or the Red Sox?

Roddy Scheer: [00:45:09]:

say they’re Red Sox, number 1.

Scott Cowan [00:45:11]:

Okay. Why? But

Roddy Scheer: [00:45:13]:

while I grew up going to games, I — Wow. You did. — was, you know, lived about I could literally hear the announcer at Fenway Park from my backyard. You know, next up, Karl Gisztrensky, number, you know, sell What a charm childhood.

Scott Cowan [00:45:28]:

Yeah. So I’m sorry. That’s just like

Roddy Scheer: [00:45:31]:

I’m so jealous. Wow. Okay. That was great. So, you know, that’s in my blood, and — Mhmm. — my parents to this day watch every single Red Sox game on their TV. And it can’t subscribe to a cable network that doesn’t get the new England sports network. And

Scott Cowan [00:45:48]:

so, you know, that’s that’s me. But I also love the Bruins. I’m a hockey, you know, hack hockey players. So — Oh, you are. Okay. — love that too. Yeah. Mhmm. Okay. I’m just glad you didn’t say the Patriots. So I’m just — Yeah. really glad you didn’t set pitchers. Red Sox are everyone gets a pass on the Red Sox. Even if — Yeah. — even if I was a Yankees fan, I’d give you a pass for the socks. Okay? Well, I do like to annoy my patriot’s living friends by telling me that the greatest quarterback of all time is a patriot Steve Grogan.

Roddy Scheer: [00:46:16]:

who was the pages quarterback when I was a little kid?

Scott Cowan [00:46:19]:

You’re a mean man. Yes.

Roddy Scheer: [00:46:21]:

I like this. I like this a lot. Uh-huh. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:46:24]:

Yeah. I don’t know how I feel about Mister Brady. Mhmm. I’d probably loved him if you would been playing for my team, but — Right. — he he didn’t, and he won’t. So he don’t. Yep. So after after

Roddy Scheer: [00:46:39]:

Go ahead. Go go ahead. Yeah. Are you guys gonna say, are you a sea sea hawks fan? Or — Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, maybe we’ll get them. Maybe we’ll get Brady. You know? We need somebody. I play till he’s 55. I mean, I gotta I gotta admire him from his longevity

Scott Cowan [00:46:53]:

standpoint.

Roddy Scheer: [00:46:54]:

Mhmm.

Scott Cowan [00:46:55]:

Don’t like him. because he’s not on my team. If he was on my team, I’d probably learn to appreciate it. Okay. Enough of that. After college, What was next in your world?

Roddy Scheer: [00:47:08]:

I went to New York City. Yeah. I went to New York City and I worked an environmental nonprofit and had a lot of fun being in New York in my twenties. And then I was doing that I I in the process of doing this environmental non profit newsletter, that group got an offer to put this print newsletter online on this new thing called the World Wide Web. This is in the mid nineties, like, 96. Okay. So I put the newsletter online. I taught myself, you know, HTML and did this, and and it was one of the first environmental websites on the Worldwide Web. And then I got a budget calls from all these other small nonprofit environmental groups that I had been networking with as part of my job asking if I could do websites for them. So I went often, I just became a webmaster to the to the nonprofit world of New York more or less for — Okay. — several years there. And then in in the midst of that, my wife got an offer to come out to work at amazon.com. And so for me, it was my ticket to keep doing what I was doing, but move it to the West Coast. and — Mhmm. — where I had always wanted to to check out. So so we moved out here in 99, and the rest is history.

Scott Cowan [00:48:40]:

Okay. Alright. Well, that’s yeah. No one’s ever heard of Amazon, so it was probably Yep. Well, in 99 in all fairness, they weren’t they weren’t

Roddy Scheer: [00:48:52]:

what they are. Yeah. It was, you know, early early ish. So she had fun seeing seeing that place in its in its day. So — Yeah. Okay. But yeah. But then, you know, so I I got out here and I started working for well, I I ended up doing a lot of writing for Seattle Magazine and other publications. And so, yeah, one thing while I do another, and then I started doing the books. But I did get sent on some great trips around Washington. Do you know, like, Duke’s charter house? Duke. A zoo? Yeah. Mhmm. I I did a couple of articles on Duke, and I followed him around different places around the country. where he was working on sustainable sourcing of seafood and other stuff. And so we went up fishing on the Copper River Delta with a commercial fisherman, you know, for for Copper River Salmon and went to on a bourbon tasting trip down to Kentucky. So if you could get his, you know, his special mix of bourbon for his restaurants and stuff. So yeah. It it was a tough gig.

Scott Cowan [00:50:06]:

Okay. So let’s flip that around, though. No disparaging about any of your employers. I don’t mean that it’s this way, but what was the worst assignment you got put on? It might have been great, but it turned out just to be do any of them, like, you’re like, come back going I can’t believe I had, you know. But what what what went wrong?

Roddy Scheer: [00:50:30]:

Let’s see. I don’t know. I just some of those Olympic Peninsula rainouts. You know, that’s — Okay. — when you just — Yeah. — when you’re just getting drenched and you you just don’t wanna go out and do anything, you know? Yeah. It’s I mean, this when you’re just kinda washington dout, you’re that’s really the most thing I can think of. You know? Okay. Oh, that’s that’s completely legit. I mean — Yeah. But, you know, I also love the rain, and I love I love being out in it and stuff. So but — Alright. you know, anyway. And this last the last year, I don’t know how it’s been where you are, but probably not as dreary. But

Scott Cowan [00:51:08]:

It’s getting dreary here. You know? Cool. That’s why we left because I felt like it was 10 months of gray. And I know that’s not fair, but I got Yeah. I was living in the Puyallup area. Uh-huh. Working in the Olympia area. Yeah. And it was twenty eight miles from door to door. 45 minutes to 4 hours at the worst in traffic. And I’m like, I I don’t this isn’t rewarding anymore in that sense. Yeah. And so I wanted to spend more time with my with my father and my mom. And I never thought that I could get them. They they were both Born and born and raised in Tacoma. Right? I mean, I could never imagine getting him to leave. And one day, I said, hey. How do you how do you feel about the I’m shortening the story, but, basically, my parents’ component is like, hey. How would you like to move to Winatchee? And they’re like, why? And I said, well, because, you know, we We’re thinking about doing it, and I don’t wanna leave you guys behind. I’m the only child blah blah blah. And they go, well, we’ll come over and take a look and they said yes, which I — Mhmm. — if I was a betting man, would never I mean, I bet on the mariners to win the world series before I take that bet, you know, to my parents. And we moved over here, and I was able to spend the last few months of my dad’s life spending time with him, which was amazing. I wouldn’t have probably been able to do that in the Tacoma area. Mhmm. And have you seen the Shining? You’ve seen the Shining. Mhmm. I I I felt I was Jack Nicholson this this winter here. Mhmm. We got 3 feet of snow in a day here. Mhmm. and I’ve never lived anywhere with that much snow. And so I was at home. And I like being at home. Yeah. But I was it was back. But it was still blue sky. Over the west side, that gray, just It it is tough for me, and I don’t mean to be disparaging about the Western Washington, but the gray. So I have a couple questions because you’re multifaceted, so we’re gonna come back to coffee. Coffee in Seattle? Yep.

Roddy Scheer: [00:53:16]:

I guess I should ask you, Dunkin’ Donuts or Starbucks, but that That’s a good question for me given that I’m a I’m a asshole at heart. You know, do do those is my my bread and butter. But But so where do I go in Seattle, or is that what is that yeah. Yeah. Where’s a good coffee? Perkimer.

Scott Cowan [00:53:33]:

That’s my choice. Okay. Have you heard of that or been to I have. I’ve heard of it. I’ve not had it, but I’ve heard of it. Yeah. They do their own roasting, and they

Roddy Scheer: [00:53:44]:

you know, they they it’s a it’s a cool company, and there’s one right near right near my house in the district. So — Okay. And I always bring that with me when I’m visiting friends and family in the East Coast. I bring a couple of packets of Herkimer for them. So they can put that true Seattle vibe in their costume. And do they like it? They do like it. Yeah. Okay.

Scott Cowan [00:54:06]:

So since you you’re you’re doing music on your website and all that, I’ll ask you the question. I typically ask musicians. And you might not be able to answer. I don’t know. Where do you like to see music performed in the Seattle area?

Roddy Scheer: [00:54:20]:

Well, there’s no question. I have a favorite. There are several great venues, and it’s I’m sure you know, but the sea monster lounge. in Wallingford. That is the Beyond end all for me. I have never been there. Yeah. It’s one of my happy places on the planet. And — Okay. — it’s this little hole in Wallingford on, you know, off 45th Street, and they have live music. I think 6 minutes a week now, and some of the best musicians in town are dropping in and sitting in, and it’s a great place to go. You’re you’re a player. I love the Tractor. I have I have Play there. Yep. You have? Okay. The Tractor Tavern, I love.

Scott Cowan [00:55:05]:

I love the Tractor. Yeah. Who have you seen with the tractor?

Roddy Scheer: [00:55:10]:

Let’s see. I mean, been there a few times like the mother hips, Chris Whitley back in the day. moon doggies, you know — Okay. — with a lot of Seattle bands. My band played there a couple times. too. So — You you played the tractor. Yep. Mhmm. Excellent. Hombucker with my band then.

Scott Cowan [00:55:33]:

What was the name? Hombucker.

Roddy Scheer: [00:55:36]:

Hombucker. Mhmm.

Scott Cowan [00:55:38]:

Alright.

Roddy Scheer: [00:55:39]:

I’m active. Yeah. So how long did you guys press on? — is the the rainbow. The rainbow with that’s long gone. It was in the industry.

Scott Cowan [00:55:47]:

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Mhmm. Well, you but you district. You didn’t say the blue moon. How come? Right. The blue moon, I like that too. Yep. Yep.

Roddy Scheer: [00:55:55]:

Definitely.

Scott Cowan [00:55:56]:

Play there as well. I’ve been to the blue moon. Yeah. I my so I’m I’m older than you. by about a decade. Mhmm. And the u district in the mid eighties was way different than the u district today. Mhmm. There were some great venues in their celebrations, but there were some great venues when I was in my twenties. Yeah. After Park, I’d like to go to Parkers back in the day. But honestly, I still I just think the tractors there’s something about the tractor that I just Mhmm.

Roddy Scheer: [00:56:33]:

Yeah. I just It is great. Just such a like a like a big wooden room. Like, you’re almost like you’re on a big ship or something. You know? Yeah. And it’s not that it’s

Scott Cowan [00:56:45]:

special in the sense, like, nice, but there’s something about that room that just Yeah. The Tractor Tower. Yeah. That’s — Yeah. — Michael. Yeah. We talked about it. We alluded to it. We’ll come back to it now. Yosemite.

Roddy Scheer: [00:57:00]:

Yellowstone. Yeah. Yellowstone. Yellow. Yeah. Yellowstone. Yep. Okay. Yes. I’m supposed to be accurate. — do that. I even do that. But yeah. So the when I turned in the Oregon Washington Roadside Ecology manuscript. My publisher said, you know, would you like they liked it a lot and thought I really you know, captured the spirit of the assignment, and and they were looking to expand on the theme of roadside ecology by doing some national parks versions of them. which is, I think, an even better application of the concept than doing, like, a statewide version or whatever. Mhmm. So they asked if I’m interested in doing one for Yellowstone National Parks are the same theme where I drill down on all the ecological details of different short hikes. So I’ve been working on that pretty crazily for the last year. and it’s due in about a week, so I’m finishing up right now. But it involves similar kind of Harry trip to Yellowstone last summer. Right? Mhmm. Took a little less than 2 weeks and and traveled all over Yellowstone of the Tetons, and did all these short hikes and had an amazing experience. And now I’m, you know, just laboring over the writing of that. Okay. So that should be great. I mean, I think it’s really a great application of the concept because you know, probably, you know, many of us have visited or would like to visit Yellowstone. And and — Mhmm. — if you bring this book with you or read it before you go, you know, you’ll you’ll be really enlightened as to what you’re seeing and how it all works.

Scott Cowan [00:58:42]:

Are you as the author going of of this the Oregon of Washington Roadside Ecology. Do you do are you going out are you going to bookstores? I mean, I will do a few times. Yeah.

Roddy Scheer: [00:58:56]:

Yes. I have one scheduled in, I believe, in May, late May. at 3rd place books here in in Seattle or maybe the one up north. I’m not sure. And I’m working on a few other potential things, but I’m gonna do slideshow, which will feature a lot of the photographs some of the photographs from the book, and then I’ll talk about some of the things that we’ve talked about and and other stuff.

Scott Cowan [00:59:20]:

So that should be fun. That would be a lot of fun. Yeah. Yeah. Just I can’t believe I wanna bring up Oregon in it. What about pals?

Roddy Scheer: [00:59:29]:

Yeah. I mean, maybe. I’ll I’ll see what Timber Press lines up for me. Yeah. But I figured they’re the they’re the expert to that. So just trying to do what I’m told. Do you like to do talks like that? Not I haven’t done a lot of it, and I feel like it’s a a fun opportunity, but I also dread it a little bit. I I

Scott Cowan [00:59:56]:

yeah. I don’t I wouldn’t want it. I personally would terrify me. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. You know, personally. And it would and but I think I’d like to be in the position to be terrified. How’s that? You know, I’d I’d like to, you know, put my you’d be put in that position.

Roddy Scheer: [01:00:13]:

Well, the nice thing about doing it in Seattle, I did one for my waterfall was that, you know, a lot of friends show up. And as long as they don’t, you know, hammer on with the heckling too bad, then, you know, it feels like I’m friendly. I would I don’t want I do wanna be anonymous. I wouldn’t want my friends to show up. Right.

Scott Cowan [01:00:32]:

Yep. They’re definitely queuing up the stupid questions. That’s for sure. Oh, yeah. Just and ones that, you know, they would know it’d stop me too. Mhmm. So when you’re not writing, what do you and the family like to do for fun on the greater sale there?

Roddy Scheer: [01:00:48]:

well skiing, you know, which is winding down now. But I went cross country skiing a few weeks ago with my wife, and you know, eating where there’s a lot of great food in Seattle. What got got your recommendations? Well, let’s see. I mean, I always like Shanghai Garden down in the international district for some Chinese food. Let’s see. You need a burger in Fremont. It’s a great place for burgers. You know? Mhmm. Mhmm. I don’t know. I’m not, you know, I’m not super gourmand. But No. No. Those are those are both excellent. Mhmm. The those are

Scott Cowan [01:01:33]:

I drink diner coffee. Come on now. I mean, it’s not like I’m expecting you to say, you know, some you know, countless. I mean, nothing but countless is great, but, you know — Yeah. — I like okay. Alright. How about the kids? What do the kids like to do? Well,

Roddy Scheer: [01:01:47]:

one of them is in college. She goes to UC Berkeley. So — Okay. — she’s a big rower. she’s on the crew team down there. Oh, nice. Okay. My younger one is in high school here in Seattle at Northwest School. So he plays a lot of soccer and, you know, hangs out with his friends and the video games. So

Scott Cowan [01:02:12]:

your your typical teenage kid. Mhmm. You’d let me ask you a question about your daughter though in rowing. because, you know, I think of crew as a collegiate sport.

Roddy Scheer: [01:02:25]:

Did was she into it before I mean, she had I mean — She did. I mean, I didn’t realize this was so huge in Seattle for the 1st 15 years I lived here, but, you know, crew is huge here. And — That’s awesome. — she started in with, like, a learn to row program here at the POCOC ROE Center in Seattle. and that was in 7th grade for her. And so she did that for a couple years. And then She took to it and continued doing it in high school. And then and then at that point, the colleges were, you know, like, interested enough in her, so she she, you know, got the do the recruiting process and — Okay. — ended up at Berkeley. So, I mean, it all worked out well. Okay. That’s cool. It’s crazy how what a big deal it is in Seattle, and I and it was I was, you know, oblivious to it all until she started doing it. But I thought it is more of an East Coast thing. I mean, I’m from the East Coast, and I knew — Right. — you know, the head of the Charles and and the preppy, you know, New England crew racing, but I didn’t think it was part of the, you know, like, I’m a kayaker. You know? I’m in Seattle now, and, you know, I’d like to see where I’m going, you know, not one of his backwards true stuff.

Scott Cowan [01:03:49]:

Okay. Mhmm. We can never ask all the questions in these in these episodes, you know, because there’s just we gotta keep, you know, keep it between the navigational beacons to some degree even though I struggle with that. But what didn’t I ask you that I should have asked you?

Roddy Scheer: [01:04:04]:

I think you pretty much covered it all. you know, I guess, regarding the book, as I think I mentioned, I really view it as something to inspire people to get outside and to use the the chapters kind of as examples of things you can do and to let them lead you to greater adventures beyond these short little roadside hikes. you know, and going going deeper and exploring further.

Scott Cowan [01:04:41]:

And and I will, you know, chime in and say it’s it’s a beautifully done book. I mean, I I told you that before we get started. And I’m just like, your publisher sent me a copy, and I was like, oh, this is pleasant surprise. And I opened it up, and I’m like, This weighs more than I would. I mean, it’s — Mhmm. — full color,

Roddy Scheer: [01:04:57]:

beautifully done. Yep. Yeah. They let me go on and on and on. So

Scott Cowan [01:05:02]:

Yeah. They know it. It’s it’s yeah. kudos to you. Mhmm. Well, I wanna thank you for taking some to talk to us today. I’m I’m sure our audience will learn something. I know I learned something, which is always good. Well, thank you. — agree about Brady. I’m glad we agree about Tom Brady just to to put that out there. And you probably like going okay. But Thank you so much, and I’m looking forward to seeing if you’re gonna get get certain place books, I might just come and heckle you. Just warn you about that. I will let you know. You’re well qualified at this point because you know more valuable than most people.

Roddy Scheer: [01:05:40]:

Awesome. Thanks so much. Thank you, Scott. Great to talk with you, and look forward to hearing the episode.