Mark Pickerels Musical Journey from Screaming Trees to the Peyote 3. Stories from Ellensburg

Mark Pickerel is our guest for this episode. Mark was the original drummer of the band Screaming Trees. Originally from Ellensburg Screaming Trees were one of the first bands to be signed to a major label during the “grunge era” The episode was recorded in the recording studio where the first Screaming Trees album was recorded.

Mark is an amazing story teller and the episode is full of stories from his time playing drums. Currently Mark is performing with his band Pickerel and the Peyote 3 around the Northwest.

In addition Mark has a vintage clothing business and a used records business. His inventory can be found at multiple locations in Kittitas County and beyond.

If you are a fan of the Seattle music of the late 1980’s and 1990’s this episode will make your day.

Mark Pickerel’s Episode Transcript

Scott Cowan [00:00:00]:

And our paths probably crossed here in Ellensburg, and we were talking earlier, probably I probably met you probably in, I don’t know, ’84 in Ace Records. And I was that kid buying the Clash Records, but, you remember me. Right?

Mark Pickerel [00:00:12]:

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Scott Cowan [00:00:33]:

Welcome to the Exploring Washington State podcast. Here’s your host, Scott Cowan. Alright, Mark. Hit the button. We’re live. Thank you for allowing me to meet you here in Ellensburg. And, so we’re recording live on a recording studio on my equipment, so no offense to the recording studio. Mark, why don’t you go ahead and introduce yourself to our audience?

Mark Pickerel [00:00:58]:

Hello out there. I’m Mark Pickerel, Ellensburg, Washington resident since 1968.

Scott Cowan [00:01:05]:

Did you

Mark Pickerel [00:01:06]:

have that t shirt? Working on one.

Scott Cowan [00:01:09]:

Work on. Yeah. So, Mark, your names come up in multiple conversations with guests, both past and future, of of our show, and I’m aware of you because of one particular band. And our paths probably crossed here in Ellensburg, and we were talking earlier, probably I probably met you probably in, I don’t know, ’84 in Ace Records. And I was that kid buying the Clash Records, but, you remember me. Right?

Mark Pickerel [00:01:37]:

Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely.

Scott Cowan [00:01:39]:

So I’m gonna just jump in and ask a very, very direct question. Your first band that I’m aware of was Screaming Trees. Mhmm. Was that your first band?

Mark Pickerel [00:01:53]:

It was. Although Oh my god. The Screaming Trees were born out of him and those guys. We there was a band, that preceded the Screaming Trees just by a couple years that didn’t feature Mark Lanegan on vocals called him and those guys, and, you know, we we I remember that name. Oh, do you really?

Scott Cowan [00:02:10]:

I do. That’s what’s I’m like, look look look at you. Oh my gosh. I remember that name. Okay. So alright. So you you started here in Ellensburg, we’re just say with Screaming Trees. How long had you been playing drums at the time you joined the band?

Mark Pickerel [00:02:27]:

Let’s see. I started playing drums in, sixth grade.

Scott Cowan [00:02:31]:

Okay.

Mark Pickerel [00:02:32]:

And it was my freshman year that I met Van and Lee Connor, the guitarist and bassist of the Screaming Trees. And, we discovered our mutual fascination for, you know, everything from 60 psychedelia to the, second British invasion of groups like The Clash and Echo and the Bunnymen and Susie and the Banshees, Wire, and bands like that. Psychedelic Furs. Anyway, we we, we formed a band, like, within a week of meeting and, played for a couple years under the name Him and Those Guys. And then Van Connor met Mark Lanegan in a journalism class, and, Mark had just acquired a drum set through a a drug deal gone bad. And, basically, a guy couldn’t couldn’t couldn’t pay up, and so he gave Mark a drum set in lieu of cash payment. So Mark had had just started playing drums, and, our band, him and those guys, had kinda hit a wall with what we were trying to do. And, you know, we knew it was time for us to to expand our repertoire beyond just playing covers.

Mark Pickerel [00:03:49]:

And so he asked if he could join our band, but wanted to play drums. So I moved to, the microphone for our first rehearsal, but it was so obvious that he didn’t know what he was doing behind the drums that and even though I could carry a tune as a singer, I hadn’t really developed any kind of special quality or character as a vocalist. So we switched roles, and, right away, we could hear that, you know, that he he possessed a quality and a personality as a vocalist that, was mature beyond his his years and and his experience.

Scott Cowan [00:04:28]:

So how old were you at this time?

Mark Pickerel [00:04:30]:

I would have been probably a sophomore in high school. Okay. So I don’t know. 17 or something like that.

Scott Cowan [00:04:38]:

So you were

Mark Pickerel [00:04:41]:

so that would We might add, Scott, that we’re doing the interview right here in the very recording studio that we recorded our first record at. This we recorded Other Worlds right where I’m sitting in 1985.

Scott Cowan [00:04:54]:

So where in relationship to where I’m at, where was the drum kit?

Mark Pickerel [00:04:57]:

The drum kit for our first session, I think, was right right where my drums are sitting as we speak. I this is now a rehearsal space for me, and my my drums are actually just sitting a few feet from where I’m, sitting with Scott. And that’s where I was set up for our first session, and then I think the next couple of records, I was set up

Scott Cowan [00:05:16]:

right behind you. So for help me out here because you guys were young kids. Uh-huh. You’re in Ellensburg, which is not a hotbed of musical activity at that time. I mean, other than the Ranch Tavern. Yeah. You

Mark Pickerel [00:05:26]:

know, even a lot of really incredible, mostly cover bands passing through. And, occasionally, as you might remember, even artists, like JJ Kale played at the ranch and John Lee Hooker played the ranch. And every once in a while we’d get lucky with someone’s routing and and, get a host of, you know, world class

Scott Cowan [00:05:48]:

To make fun of Ellensburg a little bit, but I saw Ted Nugent at Central, and I saw Sammy Hagar at Central. In fact, I was Sammy hell Hagar’s bus bellboy, at the Holiday Inn. Huey Lewis has played at Central.

Mark Pickerel [00:06:03]:

Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:06:04]:

We won’t talk about that show.

Mark Pickerel [00:06:05]:

Scott, we’ll we’ll have to come back to this subject because I ran away from home because my dad wouldn’t let me go to that Ted Nugent’s or to the Sammy Hagar concert. And, so I ran away from home to I I I originally was just I had I had snuck out to go to the concert. My parents found out that I snuck out, and so they I found out through a friend that they were looking for me. So when I found out that I was gonna be able to go to the concert because my dad was waiting at the the concert door, I actually literally ran away from home for the next three days so I could go see Sammy Hagar and Zebra in Spokane.

Scott Cowan [00:06:46]:

Oh my gosh.

Mark Pickerel [00:06:46]:

Yeah. So but that you know, we

Scott Cowan [00:06:48]:

I know where we’re getting. No. That’s this is awesome.

Mark Pickerel [00:06:51]:

I forget where we I forget what we were supposed to be talking about.

Scott Cowan [00:06:55]:

Well, I was making kind of fun of Ellensburg of being a musical hotbed, and and and we just off the rails we go. Yeah. But you guys are young kids. You’re in a recording studio in Ellensburg. How long did it take you to record that first that first album?

Mark Pickerel [00:07:12]:

Okay. So, I’ll I’ll back up a little bit. It’s kind of an interesting story. So I worked at this record store right down the street called Ace Records, and there was a seven inch single there by a group called Anonymous. And I noticed that the and and I I listened to it, and it was really unusual. And I asked the store owner, Tim Nelson, about it, and so I noticed that the the the, the address to write to the group was an Olympia address. And I’d hardly ever stumbled across any interesting records that were from the Northwest. And this one was especially interesting because it wasn’t your your straight up, like, post punk garage rock or pub rock that a lot of the bands out of Seattle were playing, like the heats and the young fresh fellows, groups like that.

Mark Pickerel [00:07:56]:

This was avant garde and really unusual and had more in common with, like, Brian Eno the Brian Eno, David Byrne collaborations, like, a lot of, like, tape loops and unusual stuff like that. So I asked the owner about this record called Anonymous because, oh, that’s Steve Fisk’s project. Steve Fisk used to go to Central. So I decided on a whim to just write a fan letter because I was so intrigued with the the idea that that someone from this area, and Ellensburg specifically, had produced a record that didn’t have any anything in common with the terrain or that, you know, the it wasn’t reminiscent of anything else I was hearing out of the Northwest. Anyway, Steve wrote me back and, told me about this friend of his, Sam Albright, who was just about done finishing building this recording studio and that I should stop by and say hi or whatever. And, anyway, I didn’t. But a few months later, Steve was asked to move back to, Ellensburg to be the house engineer and producer here. And so he found me so Steve moved back to Ellensburg A Few Months later and found me working at the Conners, video store.

Mark Pickerel [00:09:09]:

We we the Conner brothers and the whole family owned this video store by then called New World Video. Wow. Yeah. And so Steve walked in and introduced himself, and that happened to coincide with Gary Lee Connor having just finished some home demos that were really, quite, sophisticated. And we were trying to decide how how I mean, as sophisticated as as they were, they were still demos, and we knew that we needed to actually get into a studio and, bring a new dimension to to them. So I gave Steve these demos we’d recorded, and then he approached me a few days later and said, hey. These are really great. You guys should book some time with with us, and let’s let’s roll tape.

Mark Pickerel [00:09:58]:

So we you know, within a couple weeks, we were right in this room recording, Other Worlds. I was like I said, I was a junior in high school, and, the rest is history. So that’s how that’s how it all got started. Wow. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:10:16]:

This could go in so many different directions. I mean, it just it just could. Because I now I wanna ask you, do you remember Fruzzini’s Pizza?

Mark Pickerel [00:10:22]:

Well, yeah, I can one up you because, David Fruzzini, John’s son, was my replacement when I quit him and those guys for a little while, and and the band turned into the explosive generation for about six months, and then they dissolved. And then that’s when that the lineup with Mark Lanegan, and I kinda all got got into a room to to, you know

Scott Cowan [00:10:43]:

See, I warned you that this will go Yeah. Yeah. I warned you. So We’re

Mark Pickerel [00:10:46]:

all kinds of sideways here.

Scott Cowan [00:10:48]:

Oh my god.

Mark Pickerel [00:10:48]:

But, yeah, Frasini’s was a home away from home for all of us because Yeah. Not only did we love the pizza, but there was video games and Yeah. Pool tables and No. You know, all that.

Scott Cowan [00:10:57]:

I’m sure we ran across each other there too because Yeah. In fact,

Mark Pickerel [00:11:01]:

and David and I still keep in touch. But, anyway

Scott Cowan [00:11:04]:

Oh my gosh. Okay. So Screaming Trees. I don’t know. What what else what else should we say about your time in that band? I mean, what was it like I guess I’ll ask you this question. What was it like being a a young kid Mhmm. Kind of the way I see it as being part of a an explosive wave, a genre that just exploded. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:11:34]:

What was it like being in the middle of that hurricane?

Mark Pickerel [00:11:36]:

Sure. Well, it was really exciting, but I’ll say that, you know, we felt like outsiders living on the East side of the cascade curtain, and it seemed like, you know, obviously, Seattle was the the cultural center of of Washington state. But, Steve, who produced that first recording of ours, was friends with a guy named Calvin Johnson who had a record label in Olympia called k records. Well, Calvin used to live in Ellensburg, so there was that connection there. And Steve thought we should send our cassette to Calvin to see if he if he would be interested in distributing it because Kaye Records was also they were also a a dis they also did distribution. So Calvin loved our our cassette and asked us if we’d like to come to Olympia and open for this band called The Wipers who had a they were out of Portland, but had this huge international following. And so it was, midway through my senior year, we got to go play this really great show in in Olympia and people just loved us, totally embraced what we were doing, And that was our first indication that what we were doing would be accepted on the other side of the, the mountains. And from from there on, it just really snowballed.

Mark Pickerel [00:12:53]:

And then it was, you know, Calvin introducing us to Bruce Pabbott who ran and operated, Sub Pop. And Bruce started coming out to our shows and asked us if we’d like to contribute to the first Sub Pop compilation. And so these it was just all these little incremental, like, big baby steps. And, yeah, it got became more and more exciting with each with each day, with each, you know.

Scott Cowan [00:13:19]:

So how did you get through school? I mean, because here you are playing shows. I mean

Mark Pickerel [00:13:23]:

just barely. Yeah. I really I yeah. By the by by the time we I got midway through my senior year, I I really wanted to just drop out. My parents were like, you’ve gotta be kidding. You you know, we we’ve come this far. We’ve we’ve there has to be a plan for you to get through your senior year. And so somehow, I don’t know who I convinced to help me make that a reality, but I sure that there were a few friends and I know of at least one girlfriend that that made it so.

Mark Pickerel [00:13:57]:

I won’t lie.

Scott Cowan [00:13:59]:

Well, I can’t imagine. I mean, thinking about myself in high school, I can’t imagine. I mean, I didn’t pay it. Mom, you’re not listening, are you? I I mean, I got good grades in high school, but it was it wasn’t my priority. And and I didn’t have I wasn’t playing shows. I wasn’t going to l I mean, I grew up in Tacoma, so it wasn’t like I was coming over to Spokane to play. You here you are. You got Sub Pop Records talking to you.

Scott Cowan [00:14:27]:

You’ve got I mean, that’s that surreal?

Mark Pickerel [00:14:32]:

It was very surreal. And when we signed our first contract with SST records right after my senior year, and at that time, SST was considered probably the most happening record label in in the world. They I mean, let me let me read you a list of, just some of the highlights from their roster. Black Flag, Sonic Youth, Dinosaur Junior, The Meat Puppets, The Minute Men, Husker Du, Dinosaur Junior, all these bands were on SST. And, when the Screaming Trees went to see Black Flag during my senior year when they were playing in Seattle, we knew that Black Flag’s guitarist Greg Ginn was also the owner of this incredible record label. So we brought our the demo tape that we made right where we’re sitting, and I put it right next to his amplifier, excuse me, next to his monitor. And, he picked it up and put it on his amp. We forgot all about it, but that was that was our the first seed we planted, with with that label.

Mark Pickerel [00:15:37]:

And, you know, within a couple years, we were part of the roster. And but that was probably the most exciting day of my life in in music was was getting to join that roster.

Scott Cowan [00:15:47]:

Did he listen to the tape?

Mark Pickerel [00:15:49]:

Absolutely. So

Scott Cowan [00:15:49]:

he he so he didn’t just, like, pick it up and, like, get it out of his way. He Yeah. He picked it up, and at some point, he listened to

Mark Pickerel [00:15:58]:

you. Yeah. And there’s actually a second part of the story that I failed to mention was that Steve Fisk, who produced those first recordings of ours, had a friend named Ray Ferrell who’d gone to work for SST. And Steve sent our record Clairvoyance, which we had just finished, to to Ray, not really even, in hopes of of us getting signed to SST, but he knew that Ray might be able to help us find some shows down in LA, which he did. And, but Ray played our our record for Greg, and Greg pointed out to Ray that he’d already been listening to us ever since I dropped off this cassette with him when we came to check out Black Flag. So, yeah, you start planting seeds as early as you can, and then you never know when, you know, something’s gonna grow out of it.

Scott Cowan [00:16:50]:

That’s really, really cool.

Mark Pickerel [00:16:51]:

Yeah. I was really I was really outgoing. I was kind of the I was sort of the spokesperson for our band early on and the one out there shaking hands and consigning our cassettes at record stores in Seattle and you know?

Scott Cowan [00:17:05]:

How were so how were cassette sales in Seattle? I mean, because you earlier on, you kinda you said you weren’t sure because you guys are isolated in Ellensburg. I’m putting words in your mouth with that word isolated. But here you are in Ellensburg, Cascade Curtain as you called it. You play a show in Olympia. You you got good response. You’re like, okay. This will play well in Peoria. So how how when you were consigning cassettes, how was it

Mark Pickerel [00:17:32]:

Yeah. I I don’t know where I developed the audacity to just walk into record stores, But we would we would drive to Seattle and go hit the Ave, University District, because there was about eight or 10 record stores within six blocks of each other back then, maybe within three blocks of each other. And we, you know, I would walk in with a few cassettes and maybe, like I don’t remember if we had, like, a little press kit of reviews or anything like that or well, it it it it also helped that we immediately landed a radio show. Before Clairvoyance even came out, we ended up being guests on KCMU’s Audio Oasis, which was their local show, and Jonathan Poneman was the host, and Jonathan became Bruce’s partner at Sub Pop. So here’s all how all these, you know, worlds connect is somehow probably Bruce or Calvin Johnson mentioned to Jonathan that we’d be a good, you know, a good guest for his radio show. And so that gave us a little extra street cred so when you walked into a record store, you could say, hey. My name is Mark Pickrell. I’m the drummer in this band called the Screaming Trees.

Mark Pickerel [00:18:50]:

We’re gonna be guests on KCMU’s Audio Oasis next week, and we’re looking for places that might be willing to stock our cassette and this and that. And, you know, and so we just, you know, we just as too short would say, we you get in where you fit in. You know, you just figure out different ways to to, secure some kind of relationship with a store or, you know, leave a good impression wherever you can, and and that’s what we did. You know, like, people always say in the music industry, it’s not it’s not what you know, it’s who you know. But more importantly, it’s whether or not you leave a good impression. Right. And we were really dedicated to that, to making as many friends as we as we could and to nurturing as many little relationships as we could. And and, I think that really served us well over the years.

Mark Pickerel [00:19:38]:

In fact, the whole, you know, the whole industry is based on relationships. As you, you know, you can probably attest to in in the current field that you, you know,

Scott Cowan [00:19:48]:

work in and Well, that and having the audacity to pick up the phone and call somebody and have a conversation Yeah. Even if the conversation’s like, no no thank you.

Mark Pickerel [00:19:57]:

Right.

Scott Cowan [00:19:58]:

I’d be surprised. Most of the conversations have been, yeah. I’d like to do that. I’m really very pleased. And and at this I think I’ve figured out the best pickup line of 2021 is, do you wanna be on a podcast? I it just works. Anyway, we could talk about the screaming trees, and I’m I don’t think we I could do that chapter of your life justice. So I’m gonna ask you one last question about the trees, then we’ll move on. When you remember the trees, was there a memorable show for you that you thought was just, like, wow, this is cool? There was a couple.

Scott Cowan [00:20:32]:

Okay.

Mark Pickerel [00:20:33]:

One was, opening for Sonic Youth at I wanna say it was the King Street Station. Oh. I forget. There’s there’s two stations right there in Pioneer Square. One’s a functioning train station and the other one, at least at the time, I don’t think was. But anyway, I think it was a King Street station opening for Sonic Youth was a really big deal. And also we shared we shared bills with Soundgarden, and, we we played their first record release party at the Tractor Tavern, which was really incredible. And then we played their, the the first date of their right right after they signed with A and M, they their their first major label release was, loud Louder Than Love.

Mark Pickerel [00:21:22]:

And we played, like, the launch the launch date of that record release party and the launch of that tour with them at the Moore Theatre, around ‘9 1989, I think. That was an incredible night. That was Oh, okay. Tad, Screaming Trees, Soundgarden. Incredible night.

Scott Cowan [00:21:42]:

Wow. Okay.

Mark Pickerel [00:21:43]:

Yeah. But yeah. I I literally could go on and on.

Scott Cowan [00:21:48]:

No. And and I and Yeah.

Mark Pickerel [00:21:49]:

But but you’re right. Let’s let’s,

Scott Cowan [00:21:50]:

but I do wanna ask one other question about kind of about that era. Uh-huh. You you played drums with Nirvana.

Mark Pickerel [00:21:56]:

Uh-huh. I should add, we when I played with Kurt and Chris of Nirvana, we were operating under the name The Jury rather than Okay. Nirvana. Those recordings ended up coming out on a Nirvana record, and so people oftentimes mistakenly introduced me as a member of Nirvana, which, you know, I’m happy to if it if it opens up doors that normally wouldn’t be available to me, I’m all I’m all

Scott Cowan [00:22:27]:

You’re all for it.

Mark Pickerel [00:22:28]:

Except I I do. When in a in an environment like this, I feel like I should set the record straight for my own credibility.

Scott Cowan [00:22:36]:

Right. So the reason I’m asking this question is you mentioned you guys went over to Olympia. Yeah. And what little I really know of Kurt Cobain was, you know, Aberdeen, and they played in Olympia a lot. How did you meet meet Kurt and Chris?

Mark Pickerel [00:22:54]:

You know, we we saw them perform right down the street at a community center here in Ellensburg called Hal Holmes Center, and they were incredible. I don’t think that I met them that night, but they left an incredible impression with with all of us. And then we had heard that they signed with Sub Pop, and then friends of ours mentioned to us that they were huge Screaming Trees fans. And, in fact, I I remember when the Screaming Trees opened up for Sonic Youth in Portland around ’87 that Kurt and Chris came out to see the show and ended up hanging out with us backstage. And they they may have mentioned at that point that they were big fans of our records. And, in fact, Kurt actually wrote us a fan letter at some point that that appears in some book. Okay. So he was a fan of ours, and we were we were fans of theirs and, you know, just ended up in the same rooms, same shows over and over again.

Mark Pickerel [00:23:48]:

And so yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:23:50]:

And so you guys got together, recorded a few few songs kind of as a project. Right. That’s cool. Yeah. That’s very cool. Alright. So I’m gonna, like, grind these gears, and let’s fast forward to now. Uh-huh.

Scott Cowan [00:24:04]:

Because I was listening to some of your, Mark Pickerel and praying praying hands. I could not get the Peyote three on Spotify. Oh, okay. Not find it on there.

Mark Pickerel [00:24:13]:

So No. It may you know, that may be my own fault that I I submitted that recording a little bit late for it to

Scott Cowan [00:24:22]:

Okay.

Mark Pickerel [00:24:23]:

Meet the deadline, most likely. I would imagine that, like, any day now. And by the time By

Scott Cowan [00:24:27]:

the time you’re listeners,

Mark Pickerel [00:24:29]:

I think that it’ll be available through Spotify by then.

Scott Cowan [00:24:33]:

And I have this I don’t know what how do I wanna describe this to you, but so when I think of you Mhmm. I think of you as this because I was watching the video of your I nearly lost you, and I was laughing because it was recorded in Ellensburg. And I never noticed that before. I’m like, wait a second. This is Ellensburg. I just you know? Anyway Yeah. But I think of you as in that genre of music. And so I’m listening to you play more contemporary stuff now, and we’re much older than we were back then.

Mark Pickerel [00:25:01]:

Mhmm.

Scott Cowan [00:25:03]:

But here you are, and I’m butchering your history. But I think of you as a drummer, and here you are now, front of the band Mhmm. Singing, playing guitar. Mhmm. What inspired that evolution?

Mark Pickerel [00:25:21]:

Well, it’s actually kind of a sad story. A a few things in my career had sort of stalled or hit a wall or, really, tragedy struck in the so a few months before Kurt died, Kurt asked me to play drums on what would have been the follow-up to In Utero. So I was gonna actually play drums on Nirvana’s, on one of what would have been Nirvana’s next record. Kurt died, and my affiliation or association with Mark Lanegan had stalled partly because of the choices he was making at that time in his career. And I I thought that I was gonna continue playing on Mark’s solo records long after I’d quit the Screaming Trees. Well, Mark became less and less prolific during that period, and I was just having a hard time staying busy as a musician, as a drummer. And it was pretty evident to me that if I was going to be as productive and as prolific as as I wanted to be, it was gonna it was gonna mean having to set out into a different direction and, you know, learn how to write and learn how to try and convey some of the ideas that I’d had inside me for many years, but I never really had a a strong desire to be a front man or to, really even be the the creative force within or behind a band. But because I I just wasn’t, staying as active as I wanted to as a musician, I recognized that it was time for me to to, pursue some some other, a different direction and a different course for my life, and so I I bought an acoustic guitar and started writing.

Mark Pickerel [00:27:22]:

That was around, probably around ’93. Okay.

Scott Cowan [00:27:29]:

Yeah. And I’m not a music critic, and I don’t wanna read anybody else’s reviews because I don’t they’ll put words into my head. I’m but when I was listening to some of the songs that you have, I melancholy Uh-huh. Maybe?

Mark Pickerel [00:27:45]:

That works. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:27:46]:

Okay. And and but not morose. Mhmm. Yeah. But subdued and Mhmm. And

Mark Pickerel [00:27:53]:

and I call I think of it as mood music, so melancholy is

Scott Cowan [00:27:57]:

Okay.

Mark Pickerel [00:27:58]:

I would say it would be a good

Scott Cowan [00:28:00]:

But your voice long long pause here, folks. Your voice, there was elements of it that re it just made me think of and this is gonna maybe be funny to you and but Johnny Cash. Mhmm. And

Mark Pickerel [00:28:17]:

I get that a lot.

Scott Cowan [00:28:17]:

And it’s funny because because I I hadn’t really because I’m I I’m trying to be I’m trying to come up with my own words to express this. Yeah. But it was this

Mark Pickerel [00:28:25]:

It’s funny because growing up here, I had a stronger version to country music. Okay. And, here’s here’s some irony for you. We lived on Radio Road on the same like, about probably 40 yards from the k x KXLE radio tower, and KXLE is like Owensburg’s country music radio station. But, you know, in the nineteen seventies and and in the eighties, country music had really taken a turn for the worse for the most part. And, you know, country music was really something that I associated with or affiliated with, like, you know, guys in trucks slowing down and, you know, rolling down their windows and throwing beer bottles at us. Like, country music was the soundtrack to us being, you know, assaulted with beer bottles. And and so so I, you know, I I grew up with a really negative affiliation with it.

Mark Pickerel [00:29:27]:

And I’m also not exaggerating when I say that when we picked up the because we were so close to the radio tower, when we picked up the telephone to make a phone call from our house, you could hear, like, take this job and shove it or Dolly Parton’s nine to five, like, on in coming from the phone. So, I don’t care what you heard coming through your phone. You would’ve hated it. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:29:49]:

You you would have hated you would have hated Screaming Trees if you

Mark Pickerel [00:29:51]:

would have heard a picture of the phone. You know, here’s another funny thing. Just like in the movie Groundhog Day, back then, KXLE’s broadcast in the early morning was totally canned. Uh-huh. And so, oftentimes, you would hear the same song. So when my alarm went off in the morning, oftentimes, you’d hear the exact same song at the same time for days on end. I I I’m pretty sure that’s really the way it was, not just the way I remember it. But, anyway, it wasn’t until years later that I even developed any kind of positive association with country music, but, eventually, apparently, I did.

Mark Pickerel [00:30:29]:

And the first couple records I did as a solo artist, I was really self conscious of my voice because I could hear this kind of country element in there. And, so I really tried to do whatever I could to disguise that by using a lot of synthesizers and just doing whatever I could to offset my discomfort with the fact that I sounded like Willie Nelson and Johnny Cash. But, eventually, I had to just accept who I am as a singer, and and now I’m I’m a huge fan of that genre and especially that period from, like, the, you know, fifties and sixties, a little bit a little bit of the seventies. I still don’t really like that that period where country kinda transitioned into, like, using, like, aspects of disco and you know? But yeah. So I’ll take the Johnny Cash as a compliment, the Johnny Cash.

Scott Cowan [00:31:16]:

And and, yeah, it it was. I was like, I was listening to it, and I thought there’s just this it evokes this memory of cash. And and I’m not a huge Johnny Cash fan. I mean, it just there was this so Mark Pickerel and his Praying Hands. Mhmm. How did you come up with that name?

Mark Pickerel [00:31:36]:

Well, it’s funny. So I just like you mentioned earlier, I now we’re calling the the band, Pickerel and the Peyote three. And part of it was because I wanted to sort of shed this, image that I was kind of that I had kind of adopted, this wolf in sheep’s clothing, like, this preacher man with a secret kinda, you know, image or or whatever. Because I just you know, I I used to sort of be fascinated with those kind of characters that you often read about and see in old western films, the snake oil salesman or the preacher who’s, you know, really a villain underneath. But more and more, you know, you see those kind of people still operating, out there in the world, and it’s it’s there’s there’s nothing attractive about it in reality. And I just decided I kinda wanted to to, I wanted to move on and and and and not be I just didn’t I just didn’t wanna do anything else under that monarch anything else under that moniker from now on, even though the general public probably had no idea that that was even something that I was, that I was pretending to.

Scott Cowan [00:32:49]:

Okay.

Mark Pickerel [00:32:50]:

You know what I mean? It it it would just become a personal thing. I just decided, like, I I wanna I wanna start operating under a different name. And, and also, when you do that, when you start using different images and and, names, album titles, artwork, all that stuff, it it it helps inspire new creativity. Mhmm. And and so, you know, it’s just time. But, actually, I also wanna say that the name originally just came from it it really just came out of, one time seeing, the Praying Hands tattoo, the classic Praying Hands tattoo on the shoulder of, like, this really buff, strong guy. And I I thought it was powerful that such a such a masculine guy would wear a Praying Hands tattoo on his arm. And I thought that really showed a lot, you know, really revealed a humble, a humble aspect of this this person’s character that I was really attracted to.

Mark Pickerel [00:33:55]:

But then it, like I said, then it kind of next thing I knew, I was playing on all that imagery and also sort of taking on this, like, preacher man kinda

Scott Cowan [00:34:02]:

Okay.

Mark Pickerel [00:34:04]:

Image that I, like I said, that I just decided I wanted to abandon.

Scott Cowan [00:34:08]:

So is the Peyote three a band, or is it revolving musicians?

Mark Pickerel [00:34:14]:

Yeah. This is kind of a collaborative Okay. If if it could be a permanent band, I would love that. But the guys that I play with are in such high demand, and so busy with multiple projects that I I can never seem to I can’t remember the last time I played more than two or three shows in a row with the same lineup. And I used to really kind of resent that and and wish that, I could just bring the same band out night after night. But now, there’s kind of this collective of guys, Johnny Sangster, Jeff Fielder, Ian Moore, all incredibly talented guitarists who are in such high demand. I mean, you know, Johnny plays with Nico Case. Jeff Fielder plays with the Indigo Girls and Mark Lanigan.

Mark Pickerel [00:35:00]:

Ian Moore, is a headlining, he’s a he’s a headliner and has shared the stage with everyone from Bob Dylan to the Rolling Stones. And

Scott Cowan [00:35:10]:

anyway, so nobodies. Yeah. So as

Mark Pickerel [00:35:13]:

you can imagine, these guys are in really high demand. And, because I don’t give a tour as often as I’d like to, there’s just not enough money to keep these guys. You know, I can’t, like, I can’t keep them on a you know, the payroll. Right. So yeah. So now it’s just this collaborative or this collective, that I call the Peyote three, but it really represents about maybe, like, eight or 10 different people.

Scott Cowan [00:35:39]:

So do they are they are are you recording all the parts? Are they recording them? How let walk me through the recording process now today.

Mark Pickerel [00:35:47]:

Yeah. So I I I write the songs on my acoustic guitar, and oftentimes, I have maybe drum parts in mind and guitar parts in mind, melodies, themes, things like that, production ideas. But I do I typically, I present every song to as many, as two to four musicians. Usually, we’re, like, rehearsing for a show Mhmm.

Scott Cowan [00:36:13]:

And

Mark Pickerel [00:36:13]:

I’ll pitch a couple of new songs during rehearsal and see if we can fit one of them into the a show. And, anyway, so we start developing the songs in traditional rehearse like, traditional band rehearsals, and then, we’ll take we’ll take a song to the studio. Sometimes, I’ll end up I’ll end up playing the drums on my own songs depending on who’s available on a particular day to record. You know, like Mike Musburger, who’s played drums on, like, four of my releases now. Like, literally literally, the last time I booked studio time, he had to to leave the session early for a gig with Carey Ocrey. And, so his drums but he but he left the studio kit at the session and used the different set for the show. And, you know, studio time is expensive, so I just, you know, I asked Mike if it was cool with him if I go ahead and just play drums on my own song, and he had no problem with it. He he gets it.

Mark Pickerel [00:37:15]:

And, so, really, we just we kind of just improvise as we go along and and figure out who’s gonna play what, and, and sometimes we switch roles.

Scott Cowan [00:37:30]:

Okay.

Mark Pickerel [00:37:31]:

Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:37:33]:

You’re a very interesting person, and I wanna I wanna talk about things that are not music related. And I’m I know I know I’m short changing music. But I’m gonna ask you two questions about music. And, John, I’ve already asked you the question. Now I’m gonna spin them a little differently. When you go see music play

Mark Pickerel [00:37:50]:

Mhmm.

Scott Cowan [00:37:50]:

When you go see performers in Washington state, can you name a venue or two that you think is an outstanding place to see music performed?

Mark Pickerel [00:38:00]:

Sure. I’ll start with the gorge even though it’s kind of a no brainer. Yeah. In the backyard. I mean, it it it just has so much to offer. Even if you don’t enjoy the music you’re hearing, which is pretty unlikely, you’re gonna have scenery that you’re not gonna see anywhere else in the world. It’s beautiful. Usually, the production is incredible.

Mark Pickerel [00:38:26]:

The sound is usually incredible.

Scott Cowan [00:38:30]:

Who have you seen at The Gorge? A memorable show for you at The Gorge.

Mark Pickerel [00:38:34]:

I’ll start with saying that I was there for one of the very first concerts or it might have been, like, you know, maybe a couple years into their operation. I saw Bob Dylan and Tracy Chapman there, and that was back when you, you could you’d walk in and everyone was allowed to buy two bottles of wine, and you could you just go sit out on a you know, you bring your own blanket and Mhmm.

Scott Cowan [00:38:57]:

Oh, that was great. Yeah.

Mark Pickerel [00:38:58]:

It was incredible. But some other some other incredible shows, The Who Oh. REM, Radiohead, David Bowie, Depeche Mode. Oh. I I’ve seen and performed at at least a couple of Lollapaloozas there

Scott Cowan [00:39:15]:

Oh, wow.

Mark Pickerel [00:39:16]:

And, sharing the stage with it’s pretty cool. After I quit the Screaming Trees, I I joined a band called Truly, and we got booked to play the side stage at Lollapalooza a couple years in a row, sharing the stage with band like, a a few bands before there were even household names like Primus and Tool. But yeah. So, and then, also, I owned a record store here in Ellensburg for several years called Rodeo Records. And because of our close proximity proximity to the Gorge, we were asked to be the Lollapalooza record retailer back in the in the nineties. So for, like, two or three years in a row, we were the ones stocking all of the artist CDs and and merch, and we did, like, on-site autograph signings, under our our umbrella and everything. Really, really exciting period. Okay.

Mark Pickerel [00:40:13]:

Hosting, like, you know, live signings from everybody from Nick Cave to l seven to the Beastie Boys and, selling records to Beck and like, so we were we brought we brought our we brought used records out there as well. And so oftentimes before the show started, any artists that showed up earlier in the day, would come and record shop from us.

Scott Cowan [00:40:34]:

And like

Mark Pickerel [00:40:34]:

I said, Beck Beck came and bought a bunch of records in Cypress Hill and Coolio and, Knitcave. It was it was really fun. So, anyway, that’s my that’s one of my top venues. Other smaller clubs that I love to play or to see music at would be the Showbox would be probably number one.

Scott Cowan [00:40:51]:

Which Showbox?

Mark Pickerel [00:40:51]:

Seattle downtown. The only

Scott Cowan [00:40:53]:

one that matters. Okay.

Mark Pickerel [00:40:53]:

Yeah. I actually don’t mind seeing shows at SODOs Showbox, but it’s not as special as as seeing shows at, The Showbox. And I also love playing The Showbox. I’ve played there’s a drummer probably eight or 10 times. I I was the drummer there for Nikko Case. I’ve played with the Screaming Trees there. Wow. I’ve done a lot of shows with, like, members of Pearl Jam and Guns N’ Roses there, under the, collaborating with this lady named Deborah Heesch who works for STG.

Mark Pickerel [00:41:27]:

She oftentimes puts on these really incredible, fundraisers for different, organizations and causes, and she’ll bring together members of all these, you know, Seattle Artists and will, you know, raise money for an event. Anyway, I love seeing shows and playing at the tractor. But, yeah, I could go on and on.

Scott Cowan [00:41:50]:

It’s funny because I ask that question all the time. Yeah. The tractor’s probably with our current with the current guest list, I think the tractor’s coming in probably at number one.

Mark Pickerel [00:42:02]:

Yeah. That’s really cool.

Scott Cowan [00:42:04]:

The gorge gets mentioned Uh-huh. But not as much as you might think.

Mark Pickerel [00:42:08]:

Yeah. But the tractor Understandably.

Scott Cowan [00:42:10]:

The tractor, the and the triple door. The triple door is another venue that people love playing triple door. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But the I love the tractor. I I don’t know why. But there’s something about it’s not a great it’s an awkward room.

Mark Pickerel [00:42:24]:

Right. Like, if you walked in there at noon, to do janitorial work or whatever, you wouldn’t think to yourself, like, man, this would be a great place to see a band. No. Or yeah. I mean, there isn’t really anything especially attractive about it.

Scott Cowan [00:42:40]:

But somehow you put a band on stage.

Mark Pickerel [00:42:42]:

Get people in there and Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s funny. I used to play there so much. You know, I was the drummer in the Dusty forty fives for a while, and we were regulars there. I was in the souvenirs for a while and then started putting out my own solo records. There was a period there in the, early two thousands that I I would play there sometimes, like, three times a week.

Mark Pickerel [00:43:04]:

And in in a different lineup or, you know, headlining one night, playing drums the next night, sitting in with a band who needed a drummer, maybe playing, a tribute night, a few days later, just singing one song during, like, a Townes Van Sant tribute night or something like that. So there there’d be times when I would just get to leave my drums there for three days in a row. So it was it was pretty incredible.

Scott Cowan [00:43:29]:

Can you think of a venue in Washington that you haven’t played that you’d like to play? And I don’t know that there’s an answer to that. I’m just curious. The Kingdome? The Kingdome. K. Yeah. Good luck with that. Did you ever see a band in the Kingdome? You know, I never did. Oh.

Mark Pickerel [00:43:48]:

I never got to. Not not a good place to see a band No. Apparently. Did you ever see

Scott Cowan [00:43:52]:

a band in the Tacoma Dome?

Mark Pickerel [00:43:54]:

I’ve seen I’ve seen lots of bands in the Tacoma Dome. And it’s not a Yeah. It’s not my favorite place to see. It makes the it it’s but I’ve had a couple of memorable experiences there. Or, like, when I was still in high school, I was I was lucky enough to see Deep Purple do their perfect strangers Oh. Show at the Tacoma Dome. And, that was that was a very meaningful and incredible evening of music. It was you know, they brought Ian Gillan back to the band, and they performed, like, all that, you know, Highway Star and Smoke on the Water and, you know, just it was amazing.

Mark Pickerel [00:44:31]:

Saw Robert Plant there. Saw their first kiss reunion tour there or the makeup reunion tour.

Scott Cowan [00:44:35]:

And they’re on what version of the of the reunion tour now? Oh, yeah. Their last tour volume

Mark Pickerel [00:44:40]:

was 12. Exciting for me because I didn’t get to see them with makeup the first time around. So this was my early twenties when they reformed with Peter and Ace. And so anyway

Scott Cowan [00:44:50]:

Yeah. But The Kingdom was not a Yeah. Not a good venue. I don’t think the Tacoma Dome’s a great venue. No. And it’s awesome compared to what I remember the Kingdom. Alright. Now we’re gonna we’re done with the music chapter of your life.

Scott Cowan [00:45:04]:

We’re closing it for this episode. Well, that’s not true because you sell records. You’ve got a I think a really cool store in the Thorpe Fruit Mall, Fruit, Fruit and Antique Mall. Yeah. Fruit and Antique Mall. How did you get involved? Because you got a lot of vintage vinyl. You got some some old vintage clothing that’s well curated. How did you how did you get here? Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:45:37]:

Not to sound like a talking

Mark Pickerel [00:45:38]:

about record. So Yeah. What Scott’s referring to is I have this this space that I refer to as Road Trip Records, and we exist under the umbrella of Thorpe Fruit and Antique Mall, which is located about a hundred miles east of Seattle right off I 90 Exit 101. I started selling I started selling, primarily vintage vinyl out of there about seven years ago. Well, back in the right after I left the Screaming Trees around ’91, I I opened up my own record store here in Ellensburg called Rodeo Records, and we operated for about thirteen years. When when we first started, I started with, like, a thousand dollar, small business loan. That’s as much money as I had to spend on new product. And so I was looking for different ways to increase our inventory and and and add something unique to our inventory that our competitor, Ace Records, didn’t offer.

Mark Pickerel [00:46:41]:

And I had a a really good friend who lived in Spokane named Jack Kendall, who I still see all the time, and he had a he had a vintage clothing shop, called Rick’s Classic Rags over there. And what he he left Rick’s Classic Rags and was kinda doing his own thing, and I asked him if he could if we could consign vintage clothes at Rodia Records. And that was kinda my first introduction or affiliation with that, you know, that side hustle was just, and, anyway, it’s been a a long time fascination of mine is vintage vinyl and vintage clothes. They they both, you know, they seem to work really well together. And and, and and, plus, you can find them in the same places. So when I’m out hunting for vintage records, it’s, you know, oftentimes, I’m at an estate sale where I’m also gonna come across a vintage wardrobe. And, so, yeah, it’s just one of many things that fascinates me.

Scott Cowan [00:47:41]:

Well, your collection in in Thorpe is is really interesting. And then and we share a you know, I I shared with you before that I used to work for an industry that similar, you know, similar thing on different scale, but similar. Is it still fun looking for stuff? I mean, is it still It’s so fun.

Mark Pickerel [00:48:03]:

It’s so fun that you could so I actually did a podcast, called the Dream Path Podcast with a a friend named Brian out of, Yakima just a couple weeks ago, and he was talking about how he was accused recently of participating in what’s called, like, productive distraction or constructive distraction or something like that. And it’s when you, in an attempt to avoid the thing that you really wanna do the most, in my case, that might be, like, making music and recording records, you find yourself, engaged in all this other busy work that’s really fun and fascinating and cathartic and but maybe is preventing you from doing the thing that you really should be focusing your attention on. And that’s what I’m guilty of with records and vintage clothes and antiquing and junking and thrifting. And, I mean, I could I could go days without doing anything else and be happy just sourcing vintage stuff. Like, that’s just, like, how I would like to spend all of my days, all of the time. And I have to actually remind myself to take time out of all of that to work on lyrics to a new song or to, you know, to to promote my new record, things like that. And, you know, somebody asked me recently, a friend of mine, who is also from Wenatchee, He he pointed out or he was asking me I, give me a second here, and we’ll edit this. The comet.

Mark Pickerel [00:49:43]:

Okay. I have a friend that has this publication called The Comet out of, out of Wenatchee, and he was asking me for an interview I did with them recently if and his name is his name is Ron Evans. He was asking me recently, you know, if if I was more interested in or he was asking me to kind of explain, how I transition or segue from my retail business into my retail business and how and I was reminding him or informing him that to me, the the two worlds inform each other all the time, and that they’re they’re to me, they’re in concert with each other all the time. And I’m learning I’m learning things from, this world that that I’m so preoccupied with where I’m outsourcing all this old stuff and but I’m I’m learning from all. I’m I’m I’m I’m, like, really, like, digging through history, and it’s and I’m I’m I’m unearthing all of these stories about our past here in Washington state. And, and I do a lot of soul searching as I’m I’m looking through all these, you know, what I consider artifacts of of, of Western civilization here in the Northwest. And a lot of my songs reflect that or a lot of that is reflected in my songs. And so I don’t really look at it as two different worlds, that are compartmentalized.

Mark Pickerel [00:51:23]:

I I find myself kind of swimming back and forth between the the two things. And not to mention, I’m handling records all day long, and I see I see a lot of the same records by different bands or different titles by one band spanning, like, a ten or twenty year career. And you sort of see where bands made mistakes or where they, maybe tried to to cross over, from being, like, an album oriented band into being pop stars, and you see, like, different mistakes that they may have made along the way. And, you so you and and you start to, you know, ask yourself questions about your own career and where you’ve made the same mistakes or, make sure to to view this as a cautionary tale and don’t do what this band did.

Scott Cowan [00:52:13]:

And, you know, I mean so

Mark Pickerel [00:52:15]:

I mean, I’m I’m constantly,

Scott Cowan [00:52:19]:

yeah. Do you when you’re specifically with vinyl or CDs. Uh-huh. Because those are vintage now too. Right? Exactly.

Mark Pickerel [00:52:27]:

Yeah. Do

Scott Cowan [00:52:28]:

you spend much time listening? Like, so you go to an estate sale and there’s a a large cache of records, and you just probably pick them all up, and then you you sort through them and you go, yeah. You know, I’ve got 37 of this one and, you know, and that oh, here here’s something. And Mhmm. Do you take the time to listen?

Mark Pickerel [00:52:48]:

Yeah. So, let me I’m just gonna jump right in here. I recently just bought a record collection out of Kittitas, which is, just 10 miles east of Ellensburg. And it was just like a maybe, like, gosh, a hop, skip, and a jump from where I grew up. And this this guy had acquired his dad’s record collection. His dad grew up in in LA in the nineteen fifties and sixties and was just an avid fan and and record buyer. Anyway, he’d acquired thousands of records. I I anyway, I acquired this collection of his dad’s consisting of all these seven inch singles by artists like Etta James and Buddy Guy and Howlin’ Wolf and just incredible.

Mark Pickerel [00:53:31]:

But, Scott, what I wanted to say is that not not only do I listen to all of those records, but, going back to this idea that I’m informed by that process, I’ll I’ll, give you a extra, glimpse into how it sometimes influences me is I’m really fascinated by seven inch singles and just the idea of, you know, just that that for many years, that’s how people enjoyed music. And oftentimes when I’m I’m and, you know, when you study the graphics and the cool label and sometimes there’s a cool picture sleeve or or whatever, and oftentimes when I’m working on my own songs, I’ll ask myself, is this song worthy of would it have been worthy of producing a seven inch single during, you know, you know, in the in the nineteen fifties, sixties, or seventies? Like

Scott Cowan [00:54:21]:

Mhmm.

Mark Pickerel [00:54:21]:

Does this does this song have what it takes to, you know, to warrant that kind of, format? Mhmm. And, usually, the answer is no. In fact, you know, 90% of the time, the answer is no. And then you have to start asking yourself why. Like, why why doesn’t this song possess the same qualities as a good seven inch single? Why doesn’t it deserve its own format? Why doesn’t it deserve a picture sleeve? And then you start kind of, like, you really examine the song and go, okay. Well, for one thing, it’s a five minute song. And so then you then you’re in a position where you can ask yourself, does it need to be five minutes long? And maybe there’s some justification for it being a five minute song. Let’s not forget that, like, that Stairway to Heaven was a, you know, a half an hour long.

Mark Pickerel [00:55:12]:

Just kidding. But but, I mean, occasionally, there there’s there’s justification for a song exceeding the three and a half minute, you know, seven inch single mark or whatever. But oftentimes, there’s not a good justification for that. And then you start examining, you know, whether or not there’s just too many verses and whether or not you need to go be, like, going back to the bridge a second or third time within the same song. Okay. Let’s cut two of the bridges out. Let’s cut the solo section in half. Anyway, so so, yes, that world to me is has become an essential part of of my creative process.

Mark Pickerel [00:55:47]:

So I when I go to work as a retailer in the morning, oftentimes, I’m I’m collecting thoughts throughout the day and notes to myself, throughout that process that I apply later on to my songwriting creative journey. Well, isn’t that the longest answer?

Scott Cowan [00:56:08]:

Because I the thing is is that I I completely can see how they would help both. Mhmm. I I can I mean, I know that if I were, you you know, going through a record collection I just purchased and I’m sure, you know, Zeppelin four, you’ve got literally you’d probably throw it away because there’s how many thousands of copies have you obtained through the years? Right? But if you were to find a seven inch single from, say, Etta James, you’re like, I haven’t heard this before. I would stop, and I would listen to it. Mhmm. And I don’t know whether I’ll appreciate it, like it Mhmm. Or if it’s gonna change my world. You don’t know.

Mark Pickerel [00:56:49]:

But it’s certainly worth three minutes of your time. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:56:51]:

And you wouldn’t have been exposed to it without doing your retail gig. Yeah. So I see it as being a a a complimentary, but yet integral component of of Integral

Mark Pickerel [00:57:03]:

is the word I was trying to find earlier, so thank you. And yeah. They’re they’re very much, you know

Scott Cowan [00:57:10]:

I don’t wanna say left and right brained, but they’re they’re independent, but they’re there’s there’s this overlay where they come in. I I see it.

Mark Pickerel [00:57:18]:

Also, I’ve I’ve always been fascinated by retail. And, so so presenting curating and presenting that product back to the universe is really important to me. I like to do it as artistically as possible. And and I don’t really know where that fascination came from, but just from the time I was really young, I was just really intrigued with retail environments. And so, you know, I apply that to to to what I’m doing. And, in fact, my bandmates always tease me because I always show up at every gig, like, two hours early to, like, really present our merch in the most sophisticated way that I possibly can. And, oftentimes, it’s all for not because by the time another band shows up with their merch and then by the time yeah. Nick, next thing I know is somebody saying, hey.

Mark Pickerel [00:58:14]:

You can’t set that up over there. That’s where, our, you know, bus station is gonna that that’s where we’re gonna have, this alternate bar tonight where we’re gonna serve, you know, Bud Light and

Scott Cowan [00:58:25]:

Bud Light.

Mark Pickerel [00:58:25]:

So can you take that down? And, you know, I take it all way too seriously, but but, yeah, also, all these things are related in my mind.

Scott Cowan [00:58:37]:

And I I vintage stuff resonates with me. I I I look backwards far more than I look forward. I I I look back on on historical events far more than I worry about or even think about optimistically the future. So I’m I’m wired that direction. Question it it involves your life. So you grew up here in Ellensburg. Mhmm. You formed a band.

Scott Cowan [00:59:05]:

You got to see a bunch of the world playing just playing stage. At least you got to see hotel rooms and stages in parts of The United States and the world. Why’d you come back? Why why is Ellensburg home for you?

Mark Pickerel [00:59:19]:

Well, it’s kind of complicated. First, I’ll just say this. I do love living here. I love the terrain. I love the I love waking up to the, smell of sage and lavender, and, it’s, you know, it’s a beautiful place to live. The view of the Cascades, you know, you just can’t beat it. The drive, the Canyon Drive from Cle Elum to Yakima is one of the most intriguing, works of art I’ve ever been exposed to and has has fueled many lyrics. I’ve I probably I probably released 10 or 15 songs that I’ve written between Ellensburg and and Yakima and back.

Mark Pickerel [01:00:02]:

Just just that that drive, it just inspires so much creativity for me. But, you know, I have made a couple of attempts to to live in Seattle, and, I love Seattle. Basically, I just got priced out of any neighborhood that I would wanna live in over there. And I’ll say that, you know, I would be happy living in the South Of France. I love New York City. I would love to live in a in a, a penthouse apartment in New York City. I love Austin, Texas. I love Tucson, Arizona.

Mark Pickerel [01:00:36]:

I love San Francisco. I used to think that I’d live in LA someday, and I still wish I could. But it’s practical for me to live here. I know everybody. It’s affordable. I’m an hour and a half from the city where my band where my entire where all my bandmates live. There just isn’t a feasible, practical reason for me to live somewhere else. So I I don’t wanna pretend that I only live here because it’s the only place I want to live.

Mark Pickerel [01:01:09]:

I do love it, and, I find it very inspiring. And I feel like, I’m as happy here as I would be in any of the places that I just described. Okay. And I have been to London. I’ve been to France. I’ve been to Italy. And I I I wanna go back. I can’t wait to go back, but I’m also really happy here.

Mark Pickerel [01:01:27]:

And I also find Washington state to be really unique, both in terms of its geography and everything it has to offer and its people. So yeah. But sometimes you have to just accept that, like, no. You know, the planets line up and you kind of you know?

Scott Cowan [01:01:46]:

I don’t normally ask questions framed negatively, but I’m gonna ask a negatively framed question. If you could get whatever you wanted Uh-huh. What is the one thing that Ellensburg’s missing that you wish it had? For you, for Mark Pickrell, if Ellensburg had you can snap your fingers, and it’s there. So what’s it missing that Austin or New York or or LA might you know? Yeah.

Mark Pickerel [01:02:12]:

Yeah. You know? And I thankfully, I see this, I see our dining options expanding Okay. Which is very important to me. I’m lucky that there are, like, two or three restaurants in Ellensburg that really appeal to me and my family. Sugar Thai, our our Thai restaurant, is k. World class. We eat at a restaurant called c five all the time. Okay.

Mark Pickerel [01:02:41]:

And we eat at, Ellensburg Pasta Company

Scott Cowan [01:02:44]:

Okay.

Mark Pickerel [01:02:45]:

A lot. Anyway, there’s a few restaurants here in town that I really like. We ate at the Tav this week, and they still make this the Super Mother Burger the same way they did thirty years ago and the Barney Burger the same way they did forty years ago. So, anyway, I I get by with with what Ellensburg has to offer in the way of cuisine, but I I I’m anxious and always looking forward to our, the expansion in Okay. In in that world. I but, in general, I find that most of my needs here are being met. We could use a good music venue, while we’re on that subject. We haven’t had a good live music venue operating here since the one you mentioned earlier that burned down in the in the eighties called the Ranch Tavern.

Mark Pickerel [01:03:32]:

We’ve had a couple places that bands can play and that occasionally do play, but we haven’t had, like, a functioning music venue here for as long as Yeah. I’ve been since I turned 21. So that would be really cool if somebody could could, make that. So I am really proud of our art gallery, Gallery One. Mhmm. They have become an incredible force for for, the good of, the the greater good here in Ellensburg. Their, their Friday art walks are, as impressive as any that I’ve been to around the world and and their commitment to, their outreach is really impressive. They they, they have programs for kids.

Mark Pickerel [01:04:27]:

They have programs for adults. They have, they have these just really well curated exhibits. It’s very thoughtful. It’s very, professional. It’s world class.

Scott Cowan [01:04:47]:

Okay. Yeah. I don’t normally ask a negative question, but but I’ll be off with you. I’ll I’ll I’ll answer the my own question Please do. With Wenatchee. I love Wenatchee Uh-huh. Also, but it’s the cuisine.

Mark Pickerel [01:05:00]:

Yeah. It it I wish we had

Scott Cowan [01:05:03]:

Yeah. And now with with the pandemic, it was hard for anybody. Yeah. We’ll give everybody a pass. But Yeah. The I, yeah, I just wish there was some some different cuisine.

Mark Pickerel [01:05:14]:

Central Washington kinda suffers from that. Mhmm. I think one thing that’s sort of changed that has been the introduction of all the, craft breweries and wineries that have appeared that are kind of scattered throughout

Scott Cowan [01:05:30]:

Mhmm.

Mark Pickerel [01:05:30]:

Central Washington and Eastern Washington. And that has raised the level of quality of of options for cuisine because, if you’re gonna have, a, if you wanna be taken seriously as a as a as a grower and or or host tastings, you’re you wanna have cuisine that matches that, like, that, you know, that complements that. So I think that that has really raised the level out here, like, from Walla Walla to, especially from Yakima to Walla Walla. A lot of Mhmm. Restaurants, I think, probably were born out of, like, you know, different caterers that were working full time for different wineries out there, you know, saw an opportunity, and a lot of restaurants, I think, have have have come come out of that. So I I hope some

Scott Cowan [01:06:26]:

of them come to Wenatchee. I mean, I do. Yeah. I get it. So when you’re not doing your retail and you’re not doing your music, what do you and the family like to do for entertain what do the kids like to do? I mean, are you Well,

Mark Pickerel [01:06:43]:

I walk to the Yakima River from our house about three times a week. I take our dog I walk our dog around, People’s Pond.

Scott Cowan [01:06:51]:

Oh my gosh.

Mark Pickerel [01:06:52]:

Yeah. It’s really great. We the Ellensburg has a new park, called Rotary Park. It’s kind of an extension of West Ellensburg Park right here off of Third Street. So just, like, three blocks from where Scott and I are sitting right now. And so I and they’ve made this trail that that, basically, a block from our house is the the, beginning of this trail that that goes, that takes you underneath I 90 and over to Cary Lake, and then there’s a path along the Yakima River right there that I can go on walks to and stuff. But, yeah, we we go to we go swim in the Columbia River, sometimes out at Vantage. We, we spend a lot of time at the park, a lot of lot of river walks and

Scott Cowan [01:07:43]:

Do your kids like to go to Seattle with you? Do do the Yeah. Does the family go sell?

Mark Pickerel [01:07:46]:

My 13 year old, has been bugging me about when are we gonna go to Seattle next, and she loves going to the market. She loves hanging out. I used to work at Easy Street Records in West Seattle.

Scott Cowan [01:07:56]:

Oh, okay.

Mark Pickerel [01:07:56]:

And there’s a bakery down the street that she, is really anxious to to visit. And Which one? I’m I’m Oh, no. Sorry. I put you on

Scott Cowan [01:08:05]:

the spot.

Mark Pickerel [01:08:05]:

It’s a block south of forgive me. I can’t think of the name of this European French bakery Okay. About a block and a half block and a half south of, easy Easy Street Records on California Avenue. It’s a it’s just a few doors down from the Husky Deli, which she also loves. But, yeah, there’s a there’s a lot we we used to spend a ton of time on Alki because I lived in West Seattle. And so, you know, love Alki Beach and love hanging out at Easy Street Records still and and having breakfast there. And Did you ever play at Easy Street? Absolutely. Okay.

Mark Pickerel [01:08:44]:

Yeah. I had my record release party for Tess. We we put a record out called Tess about seven years ago, and our record release party was at Easy Street. I also was lucky enough to, about six years ago, the Sonics reformed, and I got to play drums for the Sonics, one of my all time favorite bands, and that was at Easy Street. So that was a really, you know

Scott Cowan [01:09:04]:

So there’s a video out of the Sonics playing

Mark Pickerel [01:09:09]:

there.

Scott Cowan [01:09:09]:

Yeah. And I don’t recall you playing drums.

Mark Pickerel [01:09:12]:

Wasn’t playing drums on the Witch?

Scott Cowan [01:09:14]:

So I

Mark Pickerel [01:09:14]:

think it was

Scott Cowan [01:09:14]:

the very last song.

Mark Pickerel [01:09:16]:

So And I was lucky to get that song because Matt Cameron from Soundgarden was signed up to play on that song. And so when I was asked what, you know, when I was asked what song would I wanna play on by this the Sonics, I the first song that came to my mind was The Witch. It has this really classic iconic drum intro and drum break throughout the song, and it’s, like, total garage punk rock song. Anyway but Matt was already signed up for that, and I’m not really in a position to ask Matt Cameron to to, to forfeit. But he had to cancel. So at the very like, a day before the show, I was told that, in fact, I could play it on The Witch if I wanted to, so I had to really scramble to make sure I I really had it memorized. That there’s a couple of complicated little twists and turns in that song that are are easy to to get mixed up. Anyway, but I I I think I nailed it.

Mark Pickerel [01:10:10]:

It was really it was such a great night. Eddie Vedder sang that night. You know, members of the presidents Yep. Played, Calvin from Beat Happening saying Van Connor from the Screaming Trees came up and played a song. Yeah. Yeah. It was it was a great night.

Scott Cowan [01:10:29]:

So I I watched that video.

Mark Pickerel [01:10:30]:

Yeah.

Scott Cowan [01:10:31]:

And admittedly, here I am talking to musicians in Washington state, and I and I grew up in Tacoma. Uh-huh. And I didn’t know that much about the Sonics. So here was my takeaway of that video. How old were those guys at that time? In the ball.

Mark Pickerel [01:10:45]:

They’re in their, like, eighties. I’ve never 70 like, mid seventies to early eighties.

Scott Cowan [01:10:51]:

Never seen a drummer so violently attack a drum kit.

Mark Pickerel [01:10:55]:

Okay. So that isn’t their original drummer.

Scott Cowan [01:10:58]:

Okay. But that man, whoever he is

Mark Pickerel [01:11:00]:

Yeah. He’s great. He came out of a band called Agent Orange. Yeah. He he’s an incredible drummer. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [01:11:08]:

But I’ve never seen I I was I the the whole time I was watching, I just was obsessed with watching this drummer. Yeah. He’s And I don’t normally I’m not Yeah. I’m not, like, saying I I watch drummers all the time. But it was, like

Mark Pickerel [01:11:21]:

He’s my perfect man for that job, and he really propelled. I and I think it was helpful to them to have a guy who

Scott Cowan [01:11:29]:

who who

Mark Pickerel [01:11:29]:

could really drive the bus, you know, who really, like

Scott Cowan [01:11:33]:

yeah. Well, I wanna wrap this up so we can get you Yeah. Going. And it’s, the time we’re recording this is was probably a hundred and five, hundred and 10 degrees today. It’s it’s a balmy hundred and something. Mhmm. I’m a coffee nut. Are you a coffee fan?

Mark Pickerel [01:11:47]:

I love coffee. Recommendations? D and M. Gotta go to D and M. And if you’re not a D and M person, they do serve Cafe Vita Coffee out of, at Vinman’s Bakery Okay. Which is we were talking about, cuisine earlier. Right. I think we have one of the best bakeries in the world right here in Ellensburg, Washington. It’s called Vinman’s.

Scott Cowan [01:12:11]:

Yeah.

Mark Pickerel [01:12:11]:

It’s it’s adjacent to the campus. It’s right off the university.

Scott Cowan [01:12:15]:

It’s where right by

Mark Pickerel [01:12:16]:

where where cuisine used to be. Look up Vinman’s if you’re in Ellensburg. Okay. Yeah. Just incredible. In fact, it it’s now owned by a guy I went to high school with.

Scott Cowan [01:12:28]:

Oh. Yeah. Okay. So to wrap this up, you’ve got some new new songs out.

Mark Pickerel [01:12:34]:

Right? I do. Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [01:12:36]:

I like, I I think I don’t know if we were recording when I said this. At the time that we were recording this, I couldn’t find them on Spotify. So they’ll be out by Yeah.

Mark Pickerel [01:12:43]:

The time this is live. If you look up Mark Pickerel and his Praying Hands just about anywhere in the you know, you you can you can find, I I released two records that kind of, complement each other within the last six months. The first one is called Rebel in the Rearview, and and it it consists of about ten years worth of recordings and features all of our the cover versions of of different songs that we performed over the years as a band. Well, those same at those same sessions, we recorded originals, and all the originals are on the new Pickerel and the Peyote three record entitled I Have Visions.

Scott Cowan [01:13:30]:

K.

Mark Pickerel [01:13:31]:

And, anyway so, yeah, that was the I during COVID, I really needed to to figure out how to make the best use of my time. And so I I, like, decided to, like, dig out all these abandoned recordings that I’ve been doing for the last ten years and see if I could extract enough songs to release a record. Well, it turned out I had, like, 22 songs that that really just needed some mixing and maybe a couple of overdubs and core harmonies and things like that. So we’ve, Johnny Sangster, my guitarist, who’s also a celebrated producer, went in and and and did all the all the work to to bring these recordings back to life for me. And it turned out we had about 11 covers and about 11 originals, so I decided to to market them separately. And so that’s so you’ve got two two releases that really are that really represent or that consists of the same recordings. Just yeah. Okay.

Scott Cowan [01:14:36]:

And so where where else can people find you if they wanna find you?

Mark Pickerel [01:14:40]:

Amazon, Spotify. Bandcamp is my preferred, place to send people because Bandcamp offers, a really generous royalty rate to artists. So if you wanna contribute to the cause, the best thing to do is to go to Bandcamp. And don’t go to just the Mark Pickerel page, but go to the Mark Pickerel and his Praying Hands page where where you’ll find, my last four releases. K. And, but, otherwise, Apple Music, YouTube. There’s a YouTube channel now. So, really, it’s just basically a Google search away you can find any of this.

Scott Cowan [01:15:15]:

Google Mark Pickerel, and we will find you.

Mark Pickerel [01:15:17]:

We will I really decided to go ahead and make the music available, like, on basically every legitimate platform even though some of them aren’t as generous to the artists as others. It’s really important to me that people hear the music because I wanna get out there and and start touring again. And it’s only way for me to, you know

Scott Cowan [01:15:36]:

Any tour on the horizon?

Mark Pickerel [01:15:39]:

Not a tour on the horizon, but I do have two dates coming up. I’m playing Slims, which is a really cool little roadhouse, south of downtown on First Avenue. It’s called In Seattle. Yeah. Thank you. Slims in Seattle on August 7 and Slim’s on September 10. K. And I’m actually also I think I just got a text from my friend Trey out in Walla Walla who has a, a winery out there called Sleight of Hand, and I’m gonna play his watch for dates coming up.

Mark Pickerel [01:16:09]:

I’m gonna play his room in, also, in So to at the Sleight of Hands cellar, a tasting room coming up. I we haven’t confirmed the date yet, but by the time k. This airs, if you just look up you know, or go to my Facebook page, and I’ll I’ll announce a date. Okay. Just go to Mark Pickrell on Facebook, and that’s the best place to follow me for and Twitter. Oh, you’re on Twitter too? Twitter. So I’ll I’ll I’ll always announce dates

Scott Cowan [01:16:35]:

and We all have different platforms of choice. Yeah. I know. It’s so funny. I

Mark Pickerel [01:16:38]:

yeah. Alright. I know we could spend an hour just listing all the places you can find me.

Scott Cowan [01:16:42]:

Google search is kind of the ubiquitous place. Well, thank you for making this happen. You, Scott. I I had a lot of fun.

Mark Pickerel [01:16:48]:

Me too. And I,

Scott Cowan [01:16:50]:

am looking forward to seeing you play live here shortly because you’re playing at some venues I like to go to.

Mark Pickerel [01:16:55]:

Yeah. And,

Scott Cowan [01:16:57]:

yeah, if you find any of those albums I talked about before, then let me know. Anyway, thanks so much for being on. Thank you. Join us next time for another episode of the Exploring Washington State podcast.