Tieton Cider Works: From Apples to Cider plus much more from the Yakima Valley

Craig and Sharon Campbell are our guests for this episode.

Tieton Cider Works started in 2008 and is now one of the largest cider makers in Washington State.

Craig’s family started farming in the Yakima Valley in the 1920’s. As a 3rd generation farmer Craig has stories to share about farming, apples, and cider.

Sharon was Tietons first salesperson. Sharon tells what it was like to go door to door introducing people to cider.

Craig and Sharon own Harmony Orchards. Their orchard supplies the fruit that is used in Tieton Cider Works ciders.

During our conversation we chat about Apples, cider, Seattle, Tieton, and Yakima. Lots of great suggestions of places to eat, things to do, and sights to see in our amazing Washington State.

Tieton Cider Works Episode Transcription

Scott Cowan [00:00:00]:
So you grew up here. I saw that you went to WSU.

Craig Campbell [00:00:02]:
Yeah, I did.

Scott Cowan [00:00:03]:
So you’re a Husky fan.

Todd Phillips [00:00:25]:
Welcome to the Exploring Washington State podcast. Here’s your host, Scott Cowan.

Scott Cowan [00:00:31]:
I would like you guys just to make me stop talking and tell me about where we’re sitting first off this beautiful space. Craig, this was in your family, I heard?

Craig Campbell [00:00:43]:
Yes. We’re in Tieton, Washington. This little town of Tieton is a farming town that the West End of the Yakima Valley at about 2,000 foot elevation. And this is where my grandfather started farming in the late twenties.

Scott Cowan [00:00:58]:
What brought your grandfather here?

Craig Campbell [00:01:00]:
He married into a farming a German farming family, is is what I was told. And they, you know, he started that’s how he got started.

Scott Cowan [00:01:10]:
Okay. And you grew up here?

Craig Campbell [00:01:11]:
I grew up here.

Scott Cowan [00:01:13]:
Sharon, you mentioned he was riding his motorcycle around here as a kid about this site. So what Craig, I’m just gonna ask you this. So what’s changed since you were a kid

Craig Campbell [00:01:24]:
here? One thing that’s really noticeable is the weather’s considerably warmer. We don’t we used to have two or three feet of snow pretty steady in the winter. And now it’s we just have, you know, less snow in the winter. So it’s you know, the talk about all the the climate warming is certainly you can see it here in in my lifetime. Okay. And it’s actually been positive in a way here. An extra two or three degrees here is is, actually just fine for us. We’re about seven degrees every day cooler than Yakima on a given day in the summer, which is positive for the fruit we grow.

Scott Cowan [00:02:01]:
When you were growing up here, were you raising the same crops then as you are now, or have you changed through the years?

Craig Campbell [00:02:08]:
Almost everything has been replanted. We we still farm pears, and we used to be all red delicious here. They’re all gone now, and we have all these other new varieties we’re growing. So still apples. And then the other new thing we’re doing is my grandfather used to grow apricots initially, and we got back in the apricot business about fifteen years ago as a niche, and that’s and that’s been good for us as well.

Sharon Campbell [00:02:35]:
And then there’s cherries.

Craig Campbell [00:02:36]:
And then we grow cherries also. Yeah. Late, late season cherries that we harvest the July here.

Scott Cowan [00:02:42]:
So about how many acres of apples in in in its entirety?

Craig Campbell [00:02:47]:
Apples, about two fifty.

Scott Cowan [00:02:51]:
And are they all organic?

Craig Campbell [00:02:53]:
Yes.

Scott Cowan [00:02:53]:
Is your entire farm organic?

Craig Campbell [00:02:55]:
It’s 90 and I have about 97% organic. We have one field of apples that’s not, but, pretty much where all the pears are organic, all the apricots, all the cherries.

Scott Cowan [00:03:07]:
And So how many acres of apricots? 30. And cherries?

Craig Campbell [00:03:11]:
30.

Scott Cowan [00:03:12]:
Seeing a trend. How about pears?

Craig Campbell [00:03:16]:
Pears, we have about 60.

Scott Cowan [00:03:18]:
So when I was reading so this is where I get to start showing my lack of knowledge. On your website for Harmony, you mentioned pairs and parry. Yes.

Sharon Campbell [00:03:33]:
Perry pairs.

Craig Campbell [00:03:34]:
Perry pairs.

Scott Cowan [00:03:34]:
So what’s the difference to me pair is that like this is that the equivalent of dessert fruit, apples, and cider apples? Correct? Okay. Yeah.

Craig Campbell [00:03:44]:
A a peri a peri pears is a term that comes from Europe, and that’s considered to to be a, that’s a pear just grown for cider making.

Scott Cowan [00:03:55]:
Okay.

Craig Campbell [00:03:55]:
And they’re very high in tannin, almost inedible, very high sugar and high in tannin. And that’s that’s what those and they’re very they’re very small. Oh, they’re small. They’re small in size. Yeah. So that’s that’s the characteristic of that fruit.

Scott Cowan [00:04:09]:
So when we were driving up today, I know some pears on the right side of my car.

Craig Campbell [00:04:13]:
Yeah. Those are those are Bartlett pears.

Scott Cowan [00:04:15]:
Those are Bartlett’s. Okay.

Craig Campbell [00:04:16]:
Yeah. But we we, most of ours are grown at another farm our Perris and Yakima. Okay. Climate’s it seem like it’s a little better for them there. And the cider apples are much better up here than in Yakima. It’s a cooler air it’s a cooler climate up here, which they’re, you know, more akin to based on where they we’ve come from come from in the in the Europe.

Scott Cowan [00:04:35]:
Okay. So you grew up here. I saw that you went to WSU. Yeah. I did. So you’re a Husky fan.

Craig Campbell [00:04:43]:
Yeah. No. It’s, it’s all about football every weekend and, you know, it’s all about WSU and one game a year that’s important. So we’re hoping. You know, we have big a lot of hope this year. So we’ll see. Well, at

Scott Cowan [00:04:56]:
the time we’re recording this yesterday

Sharon Campbell [00:04:58]:
Yeah. They cooped it.

Scott Cowan [00:04:59]:
They cooped it

Craig Campbell [00:05:00]:
yesterday. They got hammered by FC yesterday.

Scott Cowan [00:05:02]:
So that’s I’m sorry. That’s true. I I where oh, I was getting ready to record an episode with somebody, and I I checked the score, and it was like, I think the Cougars were up, like, 14 nothing. I’m like, oh, this is great.

Sharon Campbell [00:05:12]:
Really great.

Scott Cowan [00:05:12]:
And then by the end of my recording, it was like, oh, well, that wasn’t so great. Yeah.

Sharon Campbell [00:05:17]:
That wasn’t. And then

Craig Campbell [00:05:18]:
the huskies finally won big. So I get so they’re they are pretty good, but they didn’t start out very well. So we’ll we’ll see how it goes here. There’s always hope.

Scott Cowan [00:05:26]:
So what did you, what did you major in at at WSU? Horticulture. You were horticulture. Right. And what’d you do after college?

Craig Campbell [00:05:33]:
After college, my father encouraged me to leave the farm, and he always felt that there was, you know, there’s more money, you know, downstream, be it in the sales business or packing business. So I went to work for a distant cousin of mine in the fruit brokerage business in San Jose, California.

Scott Cowan [00:05:50]:
Oh, okay.

Craig Campbell [00:05:52]:
And only planned to be there four or five years, learn the business, come back here. But I ended up staying in the Bay Area for over thirty years and started a fruit brokerage company, which we still have today in, in San Francisco that covers all of Northern California and some into Los Angeles. Wow.

Scott Cowan [00:06:09]:
And then you met in San Francisco.

Sharon Campbell [00:06:12]:
Right. Yes.

Scott Cowan [00:06:13]:
So let’s pick up your part of the story now. When did you come to the farm?

Sharon Campbell [00:06:20]:
Well, like, when I first came to visit?

Scott Cowan [00:06:22]:
Yeah. When did you first come to visit?

Sharon Campbell [00:06:24]:
Well, I mean, because the farm was always in Craig’s vision, I came to the farm rather quickly

Craig Campbell [00:06:31]:
Okay.

Sharon Campbell [00:06:32]:
To sort of I mean, you know, he was pretty clear that Washington was his endgame. So even though I met him in California and didn’t really know anything about what a produce broker was or had a even farther visit, you know, like, way, way back. What is a apple grower? So came here, and then Craig was pretty clear that even though he had this company in San Francisco that his his long term goal was to come back to Washington. K. And then when it became easier to telecommute, he was able we moved and built a house in Seattle, and it was easier for Craig to be here Mhmm. You know, at at our farm, and also that he can do his business that he has to do for CDS. That’s his company in San Francisco, you know, via the telephone. No one no one cares where you are anymore.

Sharon Campbell [00:07:24]:
People used to wanna know where you were. Right? Are you in your office? No. That’s not a thing anymore. You know? It’s everybody’s just wherever they are. And so, I came, you know, I came forty years ago.

Scott Cowan [00:07:37]:
Okay.

Sharon Campbell [00:07:38]:
And then we then we came seriously twenty years ago to Washington. We we relocated from California.

Scott Cowan [00:07:45]:
And how do you to put you on the spot, how do you like it in Washington?

Sharon Campbell [00:07:48]:
Oh, I think Washington is great, and I was really ready to leave California.

Scott Cowan [00:07:52]:
Okay.

Sharon Campbell [00:07:53]:
Yeah. I mean, I spent twenty years in California, and it was fantastic. But it was Washington’s a really it’s just a beautiful state, and there’s just so many things about Washington that work for me. Politically, I like the politics here. K. I like the vistas here. I I like the people. The people are just Washingtonians are fabulous.

Scott Cowan [00:08:16]:
Well, since you’re not from here, I’m I’m gonna put you on the spot. I mean, Craig’s already pretty much said he’s cougar fan. Is there is there is there tension in the in the family? I love that when there’s, like, the the Husky family and the Cougar family.

Sharon Campbell [00:08:29]:
Oh, no. No. I didn’t go to the University. I

Scott Cowan [00:08:31]:
know. So who do you root for? You could root for anybody. See?

Sharon Campbell [00:08:34]:
Well, I’m not I actually don’t don’t really care about college football.

Scott Cowan [00:08:37]:
Okay.

Sharon Campbell [00:08:38]:
Yeah. That’s easy for me. I don’t. I was like, whatever. You know?

Scott Cowan [00:08:44]:
It’s that rivalry, it’s fun. I went to central, so I can root for I could pick which team to root for, not for any given year. I have no allegiance, although I will admit I have well, I have both. I have autographed Husky helmets in my office and autographed WSU helmets in my office. So I have both. But I’m a I’m a baseball guy, so I’m a Mariners fan. So that’s that’s how I can dodge that one. Well, let’s talk so you moved back here full time about twenty years ago

Sharon Campbell [00:09:18]:
Correct.

Scott Cowan [00:09:18]:
Into Washington State. And Craig, when did you guys take over the I don’t even know if that’s the correct way of saying this the day to day running of the farm? When did it

Craig Campbell [00:09:28]:
my father passed away twenty four years ago, so it it it started. We had some other farming, businesses, you know, in the Pasco area, which I was already doing. And then my father passed away, then we took this over too. So so I’ve been farming, you know, for forty years, but on this particular farm every day for about twenty five.

Scott Cowan [00:09:51]:
About twenty five. What’d you have what was what were you growing down in Pasco?

Craig Campbell [00:09:55]:
We were growing primarily apples. We were growing some peaches down and peaches, nectarines and apples.

Scott Cowan [00:09:59]:
Okay. What was the inspiration to get into cider?

Craig Campbell [00:10:07]:
You know, that’s a interesting question. We had a, we had, two friends that, we went on a ski trip to Sun Valley actually. And, and, and one of the Cindy had just taken a class at Cornell on cider making, and her husband at the time worked for Whole Foods. And, you know, it was just, you know, talking about all the he had worked back east for Whole Foods. And, so there was, you know, that he he knew the apple business on the retail end. And and so Cindy, you know, could she wanted to make cider, and I’m, someone interested in growing apples, learning about new varieties. So it it hatched on that trip. Sharon was always more on the design side, sell side, marketing side.

Craig Campbell [00:11:01]:
And so we we found a small cider in outside of Portland that wanted to sell. We say buy a little bit of equipment and they had some cider apples, cider specific varieties. So we were able to get into business much quicker than we’d anticipated. We thought we’d plant an orchard and they had to have these apples and it’d take four or five years where you get started. But suddenly we could, we were ready to start like one, two, three. And the first year we did about 300 cases in seven fifty milliliter bottles in 2,008.

Scott Cowan [00:11:32]:
So for perspective, what’s the what was production for 2020?

Craig Campbell [00:11:38]:
At the Tyneside Works presently? Yeah. Yeah. About a hundred thousand cases.

Scott Cowan [00:11:44]:
Mhmm. We’ll come back to that.

Sharon Campbell [00:11:46]:
Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:11:52]:
Fuck. I had no idea. So you you bought a small a small operation, so that was able to jump start it. Yes. Were you making the cider to start with, or did you bring in a cider maker?

Craig Campbell [00:12:07]:
No. It’s like, like I said, Cindy, which was one of the initial partners, she was a cider maker initially

Scott Cowan [00:12:12]:
Okay.

Craig Campbell [00:12:12]:
For the first, probably two years. And so she did that. Sharon did the designed all the labels, did the marking, did and I went door to door with a bottle of cider in Seattle, at the time.

Sharon Campbell [00:12:28]:
Okay. Let’s stop.

Scott Cowan [00:12:28]:
I wanna hear the door to door story.

Sharon Campbell [00:12:30]:
There wasn’t a cider section. You know, you used to go into a grocery store or a liquor store or you name it, retail space, and they didn’t have a cider section. You we I mean, we, the Northwest Cider Association, actually pushed so that we could move beer over just a little bit to put cider in.

Scott Cowan [00:12:51]:
That was easy.

Sharon Campbell [00:12:52]:
Yeah, really.

Scott Cowan [00:12:53]:
That was easy, right? Beer was willing to give you up those linear pieces.

Sharon Campbell [00:12:58]:
Yes. And all those guys stocking those shelves said, What is this? You know, What do you got here?

Scott Cowan [00:13:04]:
You know? Well, so how was in the initial days when you were going, quote unquote, door to door, how was cider received?

Sharon Campbell [00:13:12]:
It depended on the person receiving it. You know, like, the curious would go, really? And you’d explain, you know, most of them had a background that they knew cider existed

Scott Cowan [00:13:21]:
Okay.

Sharon Campbell [00:13:22]:
In Europe. Some of them knew cider existed on the East Coast, but they didn’t quite know. They were probably originally about eight people, you know, making cider in Washington state, a very small number, and they weren’t interested in growing that much, you know, not like what we’re doing or some of the other larger companies are doing. Mhmm. So there was a little bit of presence. But, really, it was this this industry had to be built up from the ground to to actually say we are we are a presence.

Scott Cowan [00:13:58]:
Right.

Craig Campbell [00:13:58]:
You know,

Sharon Campbell [00:13:58]:
we’re an apple growing state, and we are a presence. You know?

Scott Cowan [00:14:02]:
Yes. Because now flash forward to 2021, cider has, in most grocery stores, has a presence.

Sharon Campbell [00:14:09]:
Mhmm. Even the small mom and pop stores

Craig Campbell [00:14:13]:
Right.

Sharon Campbell [00:14:13]:
All have a cider presence.

Scott Cowan [00:14:14]:
So, for example, in Wenatchee, there’s this little independent grocery store that probably has a hundred different varieties at any given time.

Sharon Campbell [00:14:27]:
Really? Yeah. That’s terrific.

Scott Cowan [00:14:29]:
You know, it is. And and that might but when I say a hundred, I mean, eight of them might be yours. In other words, they’ve got eight of your varieties. So it’s but you go in there and it’s it’s not just, you know, Angry Orchard.

Sharon Campbell [00:14:39]:
Correct. Yes. It’s not the national ones.

Scott Cowan [00:14:41]:
Right. So you were going door to door. You were we were and and and I’ve glossed over the design piece of that. So there’s a story to to the design. Craig Craig was mentioning this to me earlier about the spiral.

Sharon Campbell [00:14:57]:
Yes.

Scott Cowan [00:14:59]:
Can you elaborate?

Sharon Campbell [00:15:00]:
Yes. So well, I’m very into symbols and and the origin of symbols and what symbol and, you know, what that means. And, when we had this when we were so originally, the the property that we’re looking down on now, this hundred acres, it wasn’t ours when we built our house here that we’re sitting at. Oh.

Craig Campbell [00:15:21]:
And

Sharon Campbell [00:15:21]:
then we bought that land, and then I said I would really like to have this sort of symbol that we could do with trees, which is the spiral, which was which was planted way before we, had that as a logo or, you know, was associated with our cidery. But it has always been on our label for our tree fruit.

Scott Cowan [00:15:43]:
Okay.

Sharon Campbell [00:15:43]:
If you look at a Harmony Orchards box, there’s a spiral on that also. So that’s a that’s a symbol. And the spiral to me has always been, you live your life in one way, which is what I view of the spiral to be. You live your life in this way, and you really never know your life until you can turn around and sort of unwind it. Okay. We never really know where we’re going. You know, we have a plan, but our plans all take different routes, different turns, different things happen. We meet different people.

Sharon Campbell [00:16:17]:
And so we’re continually building this little spiral in my in my mind, in my world. And then when you get to a certain point, you’re able to turn around and you’re able to see what you’ve actually created in your world. So that’s what the spiral means to me.

Scott Cowan [00:16:32]:
Okay. Mhmm. And so you incorporated that into the into the artwork for that?

Sharon Campbell [00:16:36]:
Well, I actually I really wanted that as a symbolism, something that I really love to see so that I could see it out my window here in this in this land. Right. So then when the when the so this is very true of the of the spiral. Right? So I wanted it here on the land so I could see it, and then that spiral then became, you know, a logo, so to speak, or a branding of our farming, and then we carried it off when we went and did the cidery. So there’s there’s a spiral story right there. Right? You’re starting to make a loop, and then this is this is it being manifest. And the first time we saw a picture of a Google Earth I mean, one of our one of our controllers was showing us something. There was, remember when the Apple industry had that terrible 02/2008, Craig? Is that right? Or when did the when did was there a big downturn when

Craig Campbell [00:17:29]:
the It was in the late eighties.

Sharon Campbell [00:17:30]:
Late eighties. No. No. Because we had this in here. But regardless of that, there was a There’s been several downturns.

Scott Cowan [00:17:37]:
We shouldn’t laugh. We shouldn’t laugh.

Sharon Campbell [00:17:38]:
Sorry. There’s several downturn. So so, anyway, there was a, what was happening in Yakima County where several people said they weren’t farming their land so they wouldn’t have to pay the taxes on it. So then the go then the county was going out and doing all these aerial photographs. So our controller laid the aerial map down one day, and I was sitting backwards. And I looked and I went, is that the spiral from Earth? You know? And it was starting to show up. You know? I mean, now what are those trees, Craig? Forty feet?

Craig Campbell [00:18:06]:
They’re 60 feet somewhere.

Sharon Campbell [00:18:08]:
60 feet. Well, so they they started out, you know, like a foot tall.

Scott Cowan [00:18:11]:
Right.

Sharon Campbell [00:18:11]:
You know, they were a little tiny spiral. And I have been at tastings when we we have a really, wonderful aerial photograph of that that we use as we used to use as Tastings when I was going door to door. And an Alaska Airline Horizon pilot came up to me one day and he goes, oh, I know where you are. He said, I see that.

Scott Cowan [00:18:31]:
When he flies into Yacobucci?

Sharon Campbell [00:18:32]:
Yeah. Or leaves the Yacobucci flying in or whatever. Yeah. He said, that’s really visible from the air, your spiral.

Scott Cowan [00:18:40]:
That’s great.

Sharon Campbell [00:18:41]:
Yeah. No. It is. And Craig’s been up in a helicopter and seen it. Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm.

Craig Campbell [00:18:45]:
It’s pretty neat.

Scott Cowan [00:18:47]:
So when you first started making cider, did you move the equipment from the Portland area up here? Or were

Craig Campbell [00:18:55]:
Yes. Yeah. We we brought everything up here, and we had a building on our, one of our farms south of here about five miles, and we had a kind of a tractor shed. And so we made that into a cidery. We we put the tanks in there, and we had a press over there. And we were there for,

Sharon Campbell [00:19:11]:
We pressed outside.

Craig Campbell [00:19:13]:
And I swear to god, every time in the winter we needed to press, it was below 32. So it was it was a very difficult situation up here for

Sharon Campbell [00:19:20]:
It’s difficult.

Craig Campbell [00:19:21]:
To make to make cider. We’re out of the mill of nowhere, although it was close to the where the apples were primarily. But, and then it was, we did that for eight years, I guess, or seven years. And then one day, I said, Sharon, this if we’re gonna move this thing forward, we have to get we have to get a bigger building. We have to get into Yakima. We’ve gotta change this whole thing around. So we we found a large space in, in Yakima off Sixteenth Avenue.

Sharon Campbell [00:19:46]:
20 14 in

Scott Cowan [00:19:47]:
Which is where you’re at now. Right?

Sharon Campbell [00:19:48]:
Yes. Exactly. Uh-huh.

Craig Campbell [00:19:49]:
2014 that happened.

Scott Cowan [00:19:50]:
So do you have that whole building?

Craig Campbell [00:19:53]:
Well, we have 75% of it.

Scott Cowan [00:19:55]:
Okay. That’s a good that’s a lot of We

Craig Campbell [00:19:57]:
have 30,000 square feet now.

Scott Cowan [00:19:58]:
It’s a lot of square footage. Yeah.

Craig Campbell [00:19:59]:
Right.

Scott Cowan [00:19:59]:
Okay.

Sharon Campbell [00:20:00]:
And we’re getting close to running out of that space, aren’t we?

Craig Campbell [00:20:04]:
Yeah. We’re we’re yeah. So we can we can still we can run nice shifts, and we could we can do some other things. But but it’s it’s, we need every every every bit of it now. Mhmm.

Sharon Campbell [00:20:16]:
So the original partner, Cindy, they decided to start a family and then her commuting back and forth didn’t work. And that’s when we hired Marcus Robert.

Scott Cowan [00:20:25]:
Okay.

Sharon Campbell [00:20:25]:
And our that was that was the

Scott Cowan [00:20:28]:
move. Okay.

Sharon Campbell [00:20:29]:
That was the move that allowed us to grow, and he still is such an integral part of the business.

Scott Cowan [00:20:36]:
Okay.

Sharon Campbell [00:20:37]:
You know, he is really the one who runs the day to day operations. He’s the one who develops all of the new, varieties that we have. And

Craig Campbell [00:20:45]:
Mhmm.

Scott Cowan [00:20:45]:
You

Sharon Campbell [00:20:45]:
know, that that was that was the game changer.

Scott Cowan [00:20:47]:
Okay.

Craig Campbell [00:20:48]:
Yeah. And Mark and Marcus grew up in, in Glied where Natchez, I guess you could say. And he had a small winery at the time, so he was making some wine. And he’s comes from a farming family, and we put an ad in in one of the, like, winejobs.com or Yes. Something like that. Yeah. He responded and he said he had a winery in Natchez. And I said, I just I didn’t know there was a, you know, winery in Natchez.

Craig Campbell [00:21:13]:
And he came up here and he worked on the farm for a while and and because we kinda split that and we’re making cider and, but he was he made great sangiovese and, but he doesn’t have time for that anymore. But he’s a great, he’s a great, sort of cook in the kitchen. He was a great cider maker

Scott Cowan [00:21:30]:
and

Craig Campbell [00:21:31]:
he’s the president of the company now. And and so he’s an integral part. He’s been with us for, ten years, I believe.

Scott Cowan [00:21:38]:
Ten years,

Craig Campbell [00:21:38]:
ten going on eleven. So that’s been, it’s been great.

Scott Cowan [00:21:43]:
So I’m gonna say to me that in volume, your growth has been explosive. Exactly.

Craig Campbell [00:21:51]:
Yes.

Scott Cowan [00:21:53]:
I’m sure it was perfectly smooth. No setbacks. It’s been

Craig Campbell [00:21:56]:
a lot of setbacks.

Scott Cowan [00:21:57]:
Okay. So thank you. Because one of the questions I love to always ask is because I always think there’s a a good lesson to be learned by setbacks or mistakes. Any anything that you guys started that you thought was gonna be a brilliant idea that when you got going, you’re like, oh, maybe like, was there a variety? Like, did you try to do, you know, I’m being facetious, but, you know, lavender and apricot blend cider, and it just didn’t work or anything like that?

Sharon Campbell [00:22:25]:
Well, there have been a couple of blends that didn’t work, but actually, the whole cider industry in Washington, I think I can say that. Let’s just say a a portion of the cider. We really and and it was in the East Coast too. We really thought that cider would go into a seven fifty and cider would be thought of as wine.

Scott Cowan [00:22:46]:
And

Sharon Campbell [00:22:46]:
now I’m sure you think of cider as the cousin to beer, not to the cousin to wine.

Scott Cowan [00:22:52]:
You know, it’s funny. I think of it both ways.

Sharon Campbell [00:22:54]:
Uh-huh. Okay.

Scott Cowan [00:22:55]:
Interesting. That especially, like, because Snowdrift’s seven miles from my house. Right? And so they do a lot of stuff in 750.

Sharon Campbell [00:23:04]:
They do. And they are the exception, not the rule.

Scott Cowan [00:23:09]:
But I think their Perry that they have, not that we want to talk about them today, no offense to them, but we’re talking to you guys, You know, that comes in at 07:50. So that to me is more of a a celebratory type thing to have it with a nice

Sharon Campbell [00:23:20]:
And they market their they market their cider differently than we do. I mean, Craig is a volume guy. Right. Am I am I correct, Craig?

Craig Campbell [00:23:27]:
Yes. Yes. I mean, that I mean, that’s where I mean, this is a

Scott Cowan [00:23:31]:
I mean, I hate to say it.

Craig Campbell [00:23:32]:
It’s a production driven business for us. And until we really got into the can business, this business was just I was we were feeding it every year, to keep it going. So we started with seven fifties, you know, and then there we said, what

Sharon Campbell [00:23:46]:
500.

Craig Campbell [00:23:46]:
And then it, you know, needed to be, you know, less than x. And then so we went to 500 to get the ring, you know, retail price. And we were selling at $6.07 6 to $8 a bottle, but that’s just one bottle at a time and it’s, you know, it’s like selling molasses. So it was, when we really got into the can thing, twelve, sixteen ounce cans, which was, four or five years ago now, I guess, that changed the business for us. Because that was then you could sell a six pack or a four pack of twelves or sixteens or or that was and that was that was a trend. We were a little late in the trend, quite frankly.

Sharon Campbell [00:24:20]:
Late in the can business.

Craig Campbell [00:24:21]:
You know, some of our bigger competitors were ahead of us in cans. We’re we’re rapidly catching up. But that’s that changed the business for us because it was it was just kind of a niche a niche thing. These these bottles, yeah, they sell, but it’s a it’s a it’s a slow sell.

Scott Cowan [00:24:34]:
K.

Sharon Campbell [00:24:36]:
And that I think that go to go back to your original question, that is what really we we started thinking that this would be x and now it’s basically a can business and, kegs.

Craig Campbell [00:24:48]:
Yeah. Kegs were always a part of our business. And then, you know, the COVID, you know, in, in, let’s see, 2020, you know, the bars were shut down. So then we had, we, unfortunately, we had a lot of retail business, and we were pretty well positioned with cans and different blends. And our business actually we had a very good year in ’20. And it’s, so now that’s solidified as we’re we’re back, you know, the bars are, and we’re back in that. But our our business primarily now is retail chain stores. That’s what drives our business.

Scott Cowan [00:25:21]:
K.

Craig Campbell [00:25:21]:
And that’s and that’s just where rather than fighting for a tap handle every week, they’re gonna rotate them or they’re gonna give you this or that. We love that business, but the the the things that drives us is, you know, in the shelf spaces with these retailers.

Sharon Campbell [00:25:38]:
And that we didn’t even know really when we started that would be a thing, that we would really be, like, in cans next to beer. You know? That just that that was not in my peripheral vision at all.

Scott Cowan [00:25:51]:
So you kind of thought it was gonna be competing with wine then? I mean, would that be Yes. You know? But even though you when we started this conversation, you said getting it in next to beer.

Sharon Campbell [00:26:02]:
Yeah. So that was where they put us, you know. Yeah. Because we needed to be cold.

Scott Cowan [00:26:06]:
Right.

Sharon Campbell [00:26:06]:
The wine doesn’t self stable. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:26:08]:
Okay.

Craig Campbell [00:26:09]:
And to add to the bottle thing, so we started with seven fifties, then we were in 500 ml, which is 16.9 ounces. And and then a lot of, like, Angry Orchards, they were all a six pack of 12 ounce bottles. And they you know, regardless of how you feel about their cider, they they had the distribution with the Sandman network to really get a box of cider in every in every store and and convenience store in America. And so then it and it was there. So at least it was you could buy cider pretty much anywhere, and that really helped the whole industry. And, you know, they’ve they’ve been chipped away now with regional catteries cons like ourselves across America, but, they they really helped the whole industry distribution wise.

Scott Cowan [00:26:51]:
My layman’s interpretation that it’s a lot like Starbucks did for small coffee roasters by convincing you that you could pay $5 for a cup of coffee, and now you can go down here in Natchez and probably pull into one of those espresso stands and pay $4.5 for a cup of coffee. You would not have done that before. Which would

Craig Campbell [00:27:07]:
have been unheard of. So it wasn’t so much that, you know, that they were selling it for more money, but they just they just got it out there and they established it at a price for a six pack. And then and then the next step was cans. You know, they’re they’re cheaper, obviously, to make. The recycling’s better. We think actually cider, it there’s no oxidation in the can. We think cider is actually better in cans. I mean, people might disagree with that, but, we think the quality is consistently better.

Craig Campbell [00:27:36]:
So those things, and the retailers really and, like, in Portland, I mean, they want things in cans. They don’t want a lot of bottles down there

Scott Cowan [00:27:44]:
Okay.

Craig Campbell [00:27:44]:
For the recycling aspect. So, it just, it just matches up well, with, on a number of fronts here with, with a can.

Scott Cowan [00:27:52]:
Are you doing your own canning?

Craig Campbell [00:27:54]:
Yes.

Scott Cowan [00:27:55]:
Okay. So that takes up I’m gonna guess that the canning line is takes up a bunch of square footage.

Craig Campbell [00:28:03]:
It’s the size of this table.

Scott Cowan [00:28:07]:
Okay. So since this is an audio format, I’m gonna

Craig Campbell [00:28:08]:
say this table is about

Sharon Campbell [00:28:10]:
It’s about three by six.

Craig Campbell [00:28:12]:
Yeah. So the the canning machine is is about four by 10, but it it doesn’t take a lot of space for You’re kidding me. No. It’s quite I mean, you have to have a whole pallet d destacker to get the cans into the actual machine, but the machine itself is much smaller than you might think.

Scott Cowan [00:28:26]:
How many cans an hour can that machine do?

Craig Campbell [00:28:29]:
It’s more a minute. I think it’s, I I just don’t quote me. I think it’s more like, you know, we do 60 cans a minute or they’re about 60 to 80.

Scott Cowan [00:28:38]:
Wow. Really? Yes. I would.

Sharon Campbell [00:28:43]:
You can stop by.

Scott Cowan [00:28:43]:
I I I it’s not that I don’t believe you. That’s not what I’m trying

Craig Campbell [00:28:47]:
to say.

Scott Cowan [00:28:48]:
I’m like, wow. That’s very efficient.

Craig Campbell [00:28:50]:
Yeah. It’s it’s what we have. It’s a multilane canner. But, so, yeah, we do everything in house.

Scott Cowan [00:28:56]:
Everything in house. Mhmm. Okay. Where do you get the where do the cans come from originally? I mean,

Craig Campbell [00:29:02]:
Well, there’s, you know, there’s there’s I believe there’s just two can manufacturers in the

Sharon Campbell [00:29:06]:
In America?

Craig Campbell [00:29:07]:
In America, you know, that are big. And Ball’s we we work with Ball, and they make cans for for everything from LaCroix Water to Budweiser Coors to everything else. And there’s there’s been a a bit there’s been a can shortage through COVID as, you know, because more things are going through retail, less through on premise and bars. And so we’re on an allocation as everybody. There’s a lot, as you will see, out of stocks on the shelf, be it Budweiser or Coors or Titan Cider Works at times. So cans are the have almost been the limiting factor on making more cider. It’s it’s quite a they they’re they’re putting in two new plants, I I believe. One’s in Arizona, one’s back east.

Craig Campbell [00:29:45]:
There’s just a huge demand for cans across America.

Scott Cowan [00:29:50]:
One more one more supply chain story that we’re hearing in just very unusual places.

Craig Campbell [00:29:54]:
Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:29:56]:
So are the cans for cider different than a can for beer?

Craig Campbell [00:30:00]:
Yes. They have a different coating inside because apples or apples have malic acid.

Scott Cowan [00:30:05]:
Mhmm.

Craig Campbell [00:30:06]:
And so there’s a there’s a there’s a there’s a coating they put on inside of a can that that’s different than beer.

Scott Cowan [00:30:12]:
Okay. The can itself is the same. The can, but the

Craig Campbell [00:30:14]:
line the lining There’s a liner. Yes.

Scott Cowan [00:30:17]:
What okay. So you said you were late to cans. Mhmm. What was the motivation to I mean, when did you have that moment that we need to be in cans? I mean I mean, what was just was it that the market was

Craig Campbell [00:30:28]:
The market was telling us that. I mean, just just based on, you know, the the growth you know, you look at Nielsen data, the growth is on cans.

Scott Cowan [00:30:35]:
Okay. I

Craig Campbell [00:30:35]:
mean, the bottles are just flat to going down, and we’re all in that, and all the growth is is, either 12 at the time, 12 or 16 ounce cans, and it’s like, well, we gotta we actually started a separate brand at the time called Rambling Route, which we still make some of that, along with Tiotin. We were just afraid Tiotin is a premium brand. If we start putting in cans, we’re gonna discount the image and everything. But that that really you know, now it’s it it you know?

Sharon Campbell [00:31:01]:
It doesn’t matter now.

Craig Campbell [00:31:02]:
It’s our main brand, and it’s all in cans.

Sharon Campbell [00:31:04]:
That’s all about growing pains that we were talking about. These are all those things that we

Craig Campbell [00:31:08]:
Probably 5% of our volume now is in bottles. That’s it.

Scott Cowan [00:31:11]:
That’s it.

Craig Campbell [00:31:12]:
Yeah. Wow. Okay. And we now have the new can. It’s a 19.2 ounce can. You know, we kinda call them stove pipes. You see them at at, a couple stores. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:31:23]:
I bought a gallon.

Craig Campbell [00:31:24]:
And we’re, you know, that’s that’s been great growth for us the last year or so. We just started doing those. And, we do a blueberry and a huckleberry, and they’re just they’re just rocking off the shelves.

Scott Cowan [00:31:35]:
Will you put other, ones in those, do you think?

Craig Campbell [00:31:37]:
We’re working on some things for next year.

Scott Cowan [00:31:39]:
Okay. So let’s bouncing around. Let’s talk about the tasting room.

Sharon Campbell [00:31:45]:
Okay.

Scott Cowan [00:31:46]:
When did that open? And the oversimplified question, why did it open? I mean

Sharon Campbell [00:31:54]:
Well, we go back to that small building we were at that’s that’s, like, you know, four miles from where we’re sitting to to going to Yakima, and then the plant in Yakima was, well, if we’re gonna do that, then we’ll do the tasting room.

Scott Cowan [00:32:07]:
Okay.

Sharon Campbell [00:32:07]:
So that was right at the end of when I was involved in the cidery. So I said to Craig, my background is design. So I said, I’ll I’ll get the I’ll get the I’ll get you moved into the new plant. I’ll create a tasting room, and I’ll redesign the labels because that was the other thing that the market was telling us that, you know, we never we never knew we were gonna have this growth. So if you were and then we never knew we were gonna have so many products. Mhmm. So then we needed to differentiate our products, and then we, worked with a a graphic design firm that came up with the different, fruit that’s that you see on our labels now, that each fruit, whatever’s in the can or bottle is represented in the label. And, I said, I’ll get all of that done, and then I will be finished.

Sharon Campbell [00:32:52]:
Okay. So so it was 2014. And in the tasting room, what’s actually better than even our tasting room right now is our cider club.

Scott Cowan [00:33:01]:
I’m a member.

Sharon Campbell [00:33:02]:
Oh, you are? Oh, that’s great. Yeah. So then the cider club, you know, is what what drives really for Marcus to think about new things. And then in being in the cider club, as you know, you’ll get things that maybe will never make it to the shelf. They’ll just be things that Marcus creates or is trying for the cider club.

Scott Cowan [00:33:20]:
Right. So we went to the tasting room, my wife and I, and, I mean, it’s hard to get a good feel for anything during this current situation. But it looks like you have a little stage set up out of, you know, for music. Haybells. Uh-huh.

Craig Campbell [00:33:37]:
Haybells. Well, you know, bins.

Sharon Campbell [00:33:39]:
Bins. Oh, bins. Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:33:40]:
But, no, it’s just it looks like and then there’s, We have

Craig Campbell [00:33:44]:
a bocce ball court. We put that in. It’s kind of entertainment.

Scott Cowan [00:33:47]:
Right. And

Sharon Campbell [00:33:49]:
food trucks come. Yeah. Uh-huh.

Craig Campbell [00:33:51]:
Yes. On the weekends. Sharon, designed the inside. We use old tree props, you know, used to prop up the limbs in these big old trees and as, you know, as, as a wall covering and give it kind of an orchard feel inside of the tasting room.

Scott Cowan [00:34:06]:
It’s a very welcoming space. Yeah. Oh, thank you. It’s a very welcoming space. And, your staff has always been very kind when we go in there. So you can, you know, tip your cap to your to the staff. Put you both on the spot. What’s your favorite cider?

Sharon Campbell [00:34:21]:
Oh, for me, it’s always the apricot. And that stems from I’m a cook, and I think that that cider pairs better with food than any of our other ciders.

Scott Cowan [00:34:33]:
Okay. And you?

Craig Campbell [00:34:35]:
I like two and I have to stay with two, even though you say one.

Scott Cowan [00:34:38]:
That’s fine. I’ll

Craig Campbell [00:34:38]:
let you The organic apple is is my everyday go to cider, and we have the new single Rialto Porter perfection that I think is the best cider we’ve ever made.

Sharon Campbell [00:34:47]:
Oh, yeah. Well, that is that actually is really stellar, but, okay, very limited

Craig Campbell [00:34:51]:
to release. And So

Scott Cowan [00:34:52]:
that’s why the other ones, the the daily your daily. Okay. More celebratory for the but you should be able to get your hands on it. I I think if you went down there, you can get it. I can get

Craig Campbell [00:35:01]:
it in my hands. I have somebody.

Sharon Campbell [00:35:02]:
We have an account.

Scott Cowan [00:35:03]:
You have an account, though. You know somebody. Yeah.

Craig Campbell [00:35:05]:
I have a case of that cider here at the at the house, but I I tend to like straight apple more than all the flavors is where is all the growth for us. Mhmm. But I just like I just like the taste of apples. Okay.

Sharon Campbell [00:35:18]:
I just think that that what Marcus did with that and when he and I spoke and said, okay. What are we gonna do with this line? And are we gonna are we gonna have a flavored cider? And we have an apricot cider because we grow apricots. And we have a cherry that’s how we start. We have a cherry cider Mhmm. Because we grow cherries, apricot, you know, and then Craig was doing the peri pears. So that’s sort of our was our original line. But when when Marcus came up with that apricot, oh, I just thought it was stellar. And I still think it’s the best apricot cider in the market.

Sharon Campbell [00:35:47]:
I’ve tasted all the others, and it’s great. And, yeah, I we didn’t mention, but the other thing that when we were starting, what we were really trying to do was get this is this goes way back to when we were, like, in the bottles and everything. But we were trying to get cider to be shown as an alternative to wine Okay. For food. Mhmm. Because there really is something about cider with food that’s actually better than what wine is. If if people would just do sit down and do a little food testing or wine tasting or cider tasting with certain dishes, I think they would really find that that’s really the better alcoholic product to eat with food to drink with food. Excuse me.

Scott Cowan [00:36:27]:
Well, thank you for setting the table for me because that was what I wanted to ask you is let’s talk about cider and food because in my conversations with other other cider makers, I haven’t asked that question. And I’m curious if you would share with us some pairings that you think go well with some of your ciders.

Sharon Campbell [00:36:47]:
Well, so what we did, and this would probably be about maybe eight years ago now, I went to, I’d taken several cooking classes from, a a woman who is now a good friend, Elia Land. And I went to Elia and I said, let’s let’s do something for our website with food. And she goes, that is an excellent thing. She goes, because I don’t even know what food to pair with cider. Mhmm. So we spent two weeks writing recipes and taking our line, you know, and saying, okay. This one works with the apricot cider. In fact, last night, what I made was this quinoa soup that has potatoes and squash and, cilantro in it.

Sharon Campbell [00:37:32]:
And it was a recipe that Eli and I had adapted from a Deborah Madison. But but on mine, it still says pair with pair with apricot cider.

Scott Cowan [00:37:40]:
Okay.

Sharon Campbell [00:37:40]:
And there’s a there were some that we did with our peri, a scallop recipe. But it’s and one night we were having I, spent three days working on this black cod, marinating and doing all these different things. And I bought sake to go with it. And, we had company over, and I opened the sake, and Craig goes, I can’t drink this. I just can’t drink this. And I had in the refrigerator, a spice cider that Marcus was working on. And we hadn’t quite figured out what we were gonna do with it. We we wound up calling it a holiday cheer one year.

Craig Campbell [00:38:13]:
Mhmm.

Sharon Campbell [00:38:13]:
We wound up calling it, some kind of spice one year. But the market never took to it. Okay? So it’s not around anymore. But for a long time, Marcus and I were trying. So, I went to the refrigerator and I got a bottle of this spice cider. And with this miso preparation on this black cod, I mean, you’ve never seen four people who almost fell over because it was so delicious. And my friend still talks about it, that when you took a bite of that black cod and when you had a sip of that spice cider, it was like the most perfect pairing that you’ve ever put in your mouth.

Scott Cowan [00:38:48]:
Yes. I wouldn’t I would not have drawn the line between that.

Sharon Campbell [00:38:51]:
Exactly. You know? And so there was a lot of experimentation that had to happen. But, I enjoyed I mean, I love that because I like I said, I’m a cook, and That was working with Alaia for that month, and then getting it all photographed and I mean, it was exhausting, but it was fabulous.

Scott Cowan [00:39:07]:
So what’s another good pairing? I mean, give us a couple give us a couple quick and easy ones because everyone’s busy.

Sharon Campbell [00:39:13]:
Right.

Scott Cowan [00:39:14]:
So do you have any quick and easy parents?

Sharon Campbell [00:39:16]:
Any chili will go with any of the apple ciders.

Scott Cowan [00:39:19]:
Okay.

Sharon Campbell [00:39:20]:
Any of the, like, even the stronger, you know, sort of more heirloomy ciders, that that’ll grow well. Any sort of chicken dish will go well with any probably of the berry ciders that are out there, whether it be our cherry cider or our huckleberry or our, blueberry, and any kind of chicken dish. So, if you had a, like anything even off the grill, that would be fabulous. Let me keep thinking. Of course, there’s always the, going back to the brie and the cheese Mhmm. Always goes with any sort of cider. And let me think what else we did that we had. I’m I’m I’m drawing a blank right now.

Sharon Campbell [00:39:58]:
Craig, Craig,

Scott Cowan [00:39:58]:
what what do you what goes well with your organic cider?

Craig Campbell [00:40:04]:
Many things. Craig is. I’m I’m I’m not a cook like my wife. I know. But what do you like, what do you think?

Scott Cowan [00:40:10]:
But, you know, I I

Craig Campbell [00:40:10]:
I tend to like a lot of fish and some and some, chicken, and it’s great with that.

Scott Cowan [00:40:16]:
Okay.

Sharon Campbell [00:40:17]:
Yeah. I’m try I’m trying to think back to the website and all the photographs that we had.

Craig Campbell [00:40:22]:
Because you we did a a number of those and with the actual recipes. And

Sharon Campbell [00:40:26]:
Yeah. We put recipes on and photographed them. And then, of course, what happened is we had them all in the bottles, which had the bottles in our photographs, then those went to can. We’re like, oh my god. We have to reshoot all this. Anyway, but, yeah. We did a whole burger thing too where we did, like, a lobster roll. Oh.

Scott Cowan [00:40:45]:
Yeah. And I So what’d you pair with the lobster roll?

Sharon Campbell [00:40:48]:
Well, I’m pretty sure that we had the apricot with that also.

Scott Cowan [00:40:51]:
Okay.

Sharon Campbell [00:40:52]:
Yeah. There it’s not easy to find on our website, because I think over time, because the

Scott Cowan [00:40:58]:
I didn’t stumble across this.

Sharon Campbell [00:40:59]:
Yes. But it’s not it’s it’s there. Okay. I might be able to get you the link for it. It’s there.

Scott Cowan [00:41:04]:
Yeah. I can stumble on that.

Sharon Campbell [00:41:05]:
Yeah. Someone put you on

Scott Cowan [00:41:07]:
the spot. What you haven’t mentioned your peach bourbon.

Craig Campbell [00:41:11]:
Yes. Well, that is now our number one seller. It’s it Oh. Prior to that, it’s it was apricot. Apricot. Really? Yeah. And the story about apricot was it when our distributor at the time in Seattle, said, you know, you got some for the summer, so we grow apricot. So we did this apricot siren thinking it was just a seasonal.

Craig Campbell [00:41:28]:
And about November, the the the guys over there said, look. You’re gonna be making this every day, every year for us because this we can’t keep this on the shelves. So that was a story with that, and that was always our number one. And then we came out with the bourbon barrel, peach cider. I guess it was two years ago now and same kind of thing. It was just gonna be a summer thing. And then and then now it’s our number one seller. And so that’s where that’s our growth has really been in these in these blends.

Craig Campbell [00:41:55]:
You know, we’ve last summer, we came out with a hazy strawberry to kinda go with hazy beer, and that’s a good summertime thing. In the spring, we have the lavender honey. You know, we got local honey, and we got local lavender that Marcus came up with. And that’s real popular early in in the year, and then we do cranberry as the seasonal in the fall here. So, yeah, the bourbon barrel, initially, we did it with Dry Fly. We did a collaboration in Spokane using, their used, bourbon barrels.

Scott Cowan [00:42:22]:
Mhmm.

Craig Campbell [00:42:23]:
But it doesn’t need to be in the barrel very long too because because the cider, you know, it’s it’s, I guess, it it’s more delicate than, say, wine, lower alcohol. So a little bit of bourbon and and and and this I think people, when you say bourbon, you say peach. For most people, that’s like, oh, let me let me try that.

Scott Cowan [00:42:43]:
Well, let me ask you this question. Even though you’re not the cider maker, I’m gonna ask you, like, you are the cider maker. Did did putting it in the barrels change the alcohol content?

Craig Campbell [00:42:52]:
No. No. We are all of our ciders are right at it used to be all 16 6.9% because sorry. Because of excuse me.

Sharon Campbell [00:43:01]:
He’s rocking it.

Craig Campbell [00:43:02]:
That was the federal law. If you were under seven, then it was the lower tax. That’s been changed. We still call it 6.9, but it’s it’s basically 7%. That’s that’s the alcohol on our ciders. Has to do with how much how many bricks are in apples typically.

Sharon Campbell [00:43:19]:
Which is the sugar.

Craig Campbell [00:43:20]:
The sugar in the apples. So she

Scott Cowan [00:43:22]:
saw them look at my Yeah.

Sharon Campbell [00:43:23]:
I did.

Craig Campbell [00:43:24]:
So if if a if a, if an apple has bricks of 12, which is 12%, then when you ferment it to dryness, you’ll get half that.

Scott Cowan [00:43:34]:
You’ll get six. Okay.

Craig Campbell [00:43:36]:
And so it’s you have to add back we add back a little bit of, sometimes just straight apple juice to sweeten it to to to balance it out. And so you and we end up right at seven. So that’s that’s the that’s most ciders are right around between 67% alcohol.

Scott Cowan [00:43:51]:
Now you mentioned if previously taxation, if it was higher than seven, it went was it classified as wine then?

Craig Campbell [00:43:57]:
Right. Whether it was like a a yeah. There was a champagne tax that was in there too. So there was yeah, well, that had to do with carbonation. So there were some tricky parts of this. The the the champagne tax came from, I guess, it had to do with France after the war or something, but that’s that’s gone away as well. Okay. So that’s positive.

Craig Campbell [00:44:16]:
We had some positive federal legislation on that.

Sharon Campbell [00:44:18]:
Yeah. There’s a there’s a national site or association that has was formed by, you know, people all over the country, and they’ve worked hard to get some of these archaic laws off the books.

Scott Cowan [00:44:29]:
Or up yeah. Or updated to reflect. Okay. So what do you think the future holds for cider?

Craig Campbell [00:44:35]:
I think, cider has a has quite a a good future here. You know, the the the seltzers have had the real growth. So you go to you go to the shelf now, and, obviously, beer, cider has its spot, and then, you know, the seltzers weren’t even around six, seven years ago. And so that’s been a huge growth. But I think, you know, looking at the data, there you know, that’s starting to tip-off a little bit. Obviously, still very popular, you know, you know, low calories, low alcohol, different flavors. But I it to me, the seltzer doesn’t really have a a particular story. Cider has a story.

Craig Campbell [00:45:09]:
It’s an American story. We’re in apple country. You know, it still takes an apple tree to make cider now. That’s not the case with seltzer. So I think, with the regional cideries like ourselves, I think it’s a it’s a good future.

Scott Cowan [00:45:24]:
K. Put you on the spot. What what’s the future for Titan Cider? What’s that look like for you guys? You’d mentioned earlier that you’re getting close to capacity in the in your current space. Will you guys go do you think you’ll go bigger?

Craig Campbell [00:45:37]:
Or Yeah. We’re gonna continue to grow. Our growth has been double digits the last, three years, and we just wanna keep pushing it. Okay. And we’ve got we’ve got pretty substantial plans for the next two years.

Scott Cowan [00:45:49]:
Okay. So in doing a little prep, if you haven’t noticed, I don’t do a lot of prep for these, but I try to do some. Mhmm. So So you mentioned Craig, you mentioned in a video I watched somewhere, and I think it was for a fruit organization. So I think it was more for maybe not for the public, but more for your industry. Mhmm. Something, and I’m going to butcher it, but you mentioned that you think your fruit has more sugars in it now that you’re organic than they did when you were not growing organically. Do you remember that?

Craig Campbell [00:46:22]:
Yeah. And can you help maybe explain that? I think, it may it’s not maybe so much sugar because that can depend on the on the weather each year. I mean, this year was this warm weather. We noticed that the pears picked at the same maturity on had almost 2% more sugar than, say, last year. But I think in general, growing organically, you know, the there’s more balance in the soil. K. And then that leads to the balance of the plant or the tree. And some of these organic apples, they tend to store better.

Craig Campbell [00:46:56]:
They’re just a little better balanced, because of the balance with the soil. And that may be more on the fresh side of things, but it’s, it’s not so much necessarily always high sugar, but it’s they store better than on the on the fresh side of things, I think.

Scott Cowan [00:47:13]:
Okay. And then before I hit record today, I you and I were talking talking about you have approximately 40 acres of cider apples?

Craig Campbell [00:47:22]:
Yes. One of the

Scott Cowan [00:47:24]:
things that I’ve struggled to wrap my brain around is that doesn’t seem like a lot of acreage for the volume. So I I I have this disconnect between, what a a cidery is doing versus how much acres of fruit they have dedicated to it.

Craig Campbell [00:47:40]:
Well, I think the the answer the and that’s that’s a good point. You see 40 acres and you’re making all this cider that isn’t really doesn’t add up. So so we we call the cider apples are, they’re not more expensive to grow per acre than any other apple, but the yields are much lower per acre, because of the size of the apples. They’re very small.

Scott Cowan [00:48:00]:
Mhmm.

Craig Campbell [00:48:00]:
So we the art of making cider is blending apples. So we have a a certain percentage of these that we blend with dessert apples that that are bought you know, they’re on the we buy processed apples to blend with them as everyone else does. So that one that makes so with with and those apples are much cheaper. So then we’re able to be competitive in the marketplace with, you know, with the rest of the competitors.

Scott Cowan [00:48:26]:
Okay. That’s her opinion. Yes. She’s sharing her opinion. That’s good.

Sharon Campbell [00:48:32]:
And then Craig, is also just about they’re gonna harvest next week the Russian red apples.

Craig Campbell [00:48:38]:
Well, we we’re growing a we’re growing a red flesh apple. Oh. And we named it, Russian red during the kind of the whole Russia thing with Trump. Kind of a political statement, and and it’s quite popular in Seattle right now. We’re putting it in kegs. But we and we have quite a few more of those planted. It’s a it’s an odd obscure variety. Very very sort of it’s a big round red ugly apple, but it’s it’s all red inside when you pick it.

Sharon Campbell [00:49:04]:
So then the juice comes out. Right?

Craig Campbell [00:49:05]:
The juice comes out, and it’s it’s as dark as beet juice, believe it or not. And many of these red flesh apples, when you go through fermentation, they wash out. I mean, it goes from dark red to, you know, kind of this, you know, liver color almost. This this apple, it just stays really beautiful colored red after fermentation. So it’s a beautiful it’s a beautiful liquid. And so we’re we’re working on we’re planting more of those, and we’re gonna have more of this in the future as a, you know, be it a a rose or a red cider. I think we’ll stick with the name Russian red. It’s kind of interesting.

Craig Campbell [00:49:39]:
And at some point, we’re gonna put it in cans, which might even be in ’22. We’re we’re talking about that now.

Scott Cowan [00:49:44]:
Okay.

Craig Campbell [00:49:45]:
So that’s a that’s a growth area that, I mean, Angry Orchard has you know, they have their rose cider that they make, and that’s been quite popular. But, they they’re using, I don’t wanna say what they they’re not using apples to make it red. We’ll leave it at that. We’re

Sharon Campbell [00:50:00]:
going to have red apples

Craig Campbell [00:50:01]:
to make red apples

Sharon Campbell [00:50:02]:
to make

Craig Campbell [00:50:02]:
red. Yes. To make white cider. Let’s see. Yeah, that’s that’s what we’re going to do.

Scott Cowan [00:50:08]:
Are you are you experimenting? So, yeah, are you experimenting with other cider varieties to see how they grow in this area or how they work maybe with you?

Craig Campbell [00:50:18]:
We we, we’ve done that. We had a we had a fellow named Peter Mitchell come over, fourteen years ago now. He also taught cider making classes. He’s educated all the most all the cider makers in in this part of the country Mhmm. How to make cider. Sharon took the class.

Scott Cowan [00:50:34]:
Is that WSU? Yes.

Craig Campbell [00:50:36]:
It is

Scott Cowan [00:50:36]:
an extension. Yes. It is an extension.

Sharon Campbell [00:50:37]:
Correct. Correct. Uh-huh.

Craig Campbell [00:50:39]:
So Peter was and then we hired Peter to okay, Peter. You know, what do we plant? That was my question to him. And they were all these obscure, to me, weird names, you know, like like, what are we doing here? There’s so many you know, what do you do? What do you plant? So initially, we planted them alphabetically because I couldn’t get my head around all these varieties. But there’s there’s four distinct types of cider apples, bittersweet, bittersharp, sharp, and sweet. And we had some well, we had, I think, at one point, almost 40 different varieties. Now we’re down to, about five varieties we’re growing that we found that we can grow well here that are commercially viable. Certainly, a lot of the other riser that make good cider, but for one reason or another, we just weren’t successful with them

Scott Cowan [00:51:22]:
Okay.

Craig Campbell [00:51:24]:
On the growing side. So

Scott Cowan [00:51:27]:
I’m gonna ask you a question that I think people from the West Side might have. So when I grew up as a kid, apple trees looked a certain way. They look like trees. Mhmm. You move over here to Central Washington, you pay attention to what’s around us. Apple trees don’t look like apple trees anymore. Mm-mm. I’m gonna guess that that’s because it’s more efficient and more economically viable.

Craig Campbell [00:51:54]:
That’s correct.

Scott Cowan [00:51:57]:
How long does it take to go from planting to production on an old fashioned tree versus a new fangled wall?

Craig Campbell [00:52:07]:
Well, the old fashioned trees, we haven’t plant we haven’t grown those in a long time. But in

Sharon Campbell [00:52:11]:
the in the history

Craig Campbell [00:52:12]:
But in history, I would say, you know, you’re you’re you know, it’s it’s, you know, six to eight years to to really get good production.

Scott Cowan [00:52:20]:
And how long would an old fashioned tree be viable in in in round numbers?

Craig Campbell [00:52:25]:
I mean, as far as is producing good apples, it could easily it could easily be as much as fifty years.

Scott Cowan [00:52:31]:
But,

Craig Campbell [00:52:32]:
typically, the the variety goes out of got a

Sharon Campbell [00:52:35]:
The market tells you it’s not.

Craig Campbell [00:52:36]:
Marketplace was gonna force you to do something long before that, probably.

Scott Cowan [00:52:40]:
Okay.

Craig Campbell [00:52:41]:
And now with these new high density and the biggest thing that we’re able to put so many more trees in what we call fruiting laws is the advent of these all these different dwarfing rootstocks that control the size of the tree. So we can instead of planting the tree 25 feet apart, we can plant a tree three feet apart and control the size. And and we’ve been able to almost double our production per

Scott Cowan [00:53:03]:
acre. Okay. So a tree wall, you you if you were to plant one in 2021, when might it be at production?

Craig Campbell [00:53:12]:
Well, you’d have some production on the third leaf and by the fifth leaf, you’re you’re you’re close to full production.

Scott Cowan [00:53:17]:
And how long are these good? I mean

Craig Campbell [00:53:19]:
Well, there again, there’s these trees, will probably be good for twenty five, thirty years.

Scott Cowan [00:53:24]:
Oh.

Craig Campbell [00:53:25]:
But I you know, they may go out of favor in terms of, varieties, but they’ll probably actually last longer than that. They probably last for forty or fifty years. But apples apple tree is a long growing tree, but it’s the marketplace is is it dictates the probably the how long it’s gonna be at a given variety.

Scott Cowan [00:53:44]:
So I drive up and down the Columbia from Wenatchee up to Pateros and along the Columbia there you see orchards. So I’m going to ask you what those guys are doing. Some of them have big, like shade claws over them.

Craig Campbell [00:53:58]:
Yes. We have our farm in Yakima, which is, you know, down by the airport, it’s all covered in shade cloth. And, for us, we have well water there and there’s a lot of minerals in it. So when you’re cooling these apples with what’s running the water intermittently, you know, when it’s above 85 degrees, gets, you know, gets, yeah, residue on them over over time. So we’ve gone to a shade cloth, and that’s Keep them cool. They you know, keep them cooler. The shade cloth, you know, blocks some of the sun. And so, you know, we had the the hottest summer on record here, and we really have no sunburn under our situation this year.

Craig Campbell [00:54:32]:
So it’s that’s been quite helpful to us. It it changes the color slightly. The red is not quite as dark red. It’s more of a pinkish. But I think you’ll see more of that in certain instances with certain varieties is the shade cloth.

Scott Cowan [00:54:46]:
Alright. So then when I was driving up here on some of the rows, I don’t know that they were your rows, but looked like they had, aluminum foil.

Craig Campbell [00:54:54]:
Yeah. That’s, there’s, you know, that’s called, ColorUp, and that just bounces it. So the trees are so close together, you know, to get to get them to turn red in the lower portion of the tree, so it bounces a lot of light up. So on a day like this, it’s bright out. You have to have your sunglasses on. You get blinded if you’re walking down a tree row, and it really helps in coloring, especially on apples that have red or what we call bicolored apples, which most of them are now except to red delicious. Really helps getting more intense red color. And we and we at Fresh Market, we get paid on color.

Scott Cowan [00:55:27]:
Okay. Okay. Thank you. Because I’ve observed these things. Right? It’s kind of a recent transplant over here and not a farmer. Mhmm.

Craig Campbell [00:55:36]:
And the other the other the other, is called you’ll see some white cloth down. We call that extend a. There again, that that actually came from Australia and New Zealand. It’s it’s a woven factory. You can drive on it. It’s good for a number of years. And that’s the same thing. You can put that down.

Craig Campbell [00:55:49]:
It bounces light back up into the tree. And so that’s another it’s it’s more expensive, but it’s more of a a long term material you can use year after year.

Scott Cowan [00:55:58]:
Okay.

Craig Campbell [00:55:59]:
You’ll so you’ll see both.

Scott Cowan [00:56:03]:
Thank you. So I have these all these all these questions bounce in my head, and it’s part of the reason I do this is so I can go ask my questions to people. You know, it’s kinda Yeah.

Craig Campbell [00:56:10]:
You’ll see as you as you drove down here through Ellensburg, as you go up to grade on the on the on the ridge there, you’ll see all those orchards on the on the north side of the road there that, you know, they’ve got all those long rows of of white material down that’s extend a. And that those are all mostly honeycrisp there, but, that’s that’s what it’s for to bounce that light up in the trees.

Scott Cowan [00:56:28]:
Okay. So as we wrap this up, what I always like to ask my guests, when you’re not doing what you’re doing, what do you guys do for fun and excitement in Washington state?

Craig Campbell [00:56:38]:
Well, for me, I’m a skier. So whether it’s skiing here or now we’re gonna be able to go back to British Columbia, I’m ready for ski season. I do a lot of mountain biking from here. I can just ride from here. So Oh, yeah. Jesus. I do a lot of yoga. I like to exercise six days a week.

Scott Cowan [00:56:52]:
So Okay.

Craig Campbell [00:56:53]:
Those are some fun things I like to like to travel. So

Scott Cowan [00:56:56]:
How about you, Sharon?

Sharon Campbell [00:56:58]:
Well, I’m, very interested in culture. So Okay. And that is that is why we divide our time between Seattle and this farm. So I love I love all of the museums in Washington state. I just think some of the the exhibitions that are mounted are just fantastic. I love the art community

Craig Campbell [00:57:16]:
k.

Sharon Campbell [00:57:16]:
That’s in. I love going to Meany Hall for the those the cultural, calendar that they have in the in the fall and winter. Like I said, I’m a cook.

Scott Cowan [00:57:26]:
Mhmm.

Sharon Campbell [00:57:26]:
So I I love, going to all the distinctive food Mhmm. Outlets like Big John’s and De Laurentiis, and I think that that’s one of the greatest things about about Seattle and Washington state. And then I’m a huge reader.

Craig Campbell [00:57:43]:
Okay.

Sharon Campbell [00:57:43]:
And that just fits right in. I mean, I did not know that Seattle was the most well read city in in America till I moved there, but I’ve always been a reader. But I am more of a reader now. Okay. That’s for sure. Alright. And I’m also I I swim, and I, I have a, you know, I have a walking practice. We have a dog, and so I’m out.

Craig Campbell [00:58:04]:
Right.

Sharon Campbell [00:58:04]:
And I’ve never I and I and I never anticipated this, but I love the rain. I love the weather in Seattle. I know. I’m the oddity out and but but I don’t think that’s true. I mean, I think you you cannot live in Seattle and complain about the rain. You just shouldn’t move. My opinion.

Scott Cowan [00:58:25]:
I did. You can’t do that.

Sharon Campbell [00:58:26]:
Yes. Exactly. If it didn’t work for you, you move. I mean, you don’t just hang around and moan about it. Oh my god.

Scott Cowan [00:58:34]:
Are either of you coffee drinkers?

Sharon Campbell [00:58:37]:
We’re tea drinkers.

Craig Campbell [00:58:37]:
Tea drinkers.

Scott Cowan [00:58:38]:
Okay. So I’m not a tea fan. Let me rephrase that. I do not have knowledge of tea. Mhmm. So any great tea shops that you could share with people? Because I I would ask that if it was a coffee shop. So tea. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:58:53]:
Places for tea.

Sharon Campbell [00:58:54]:
Well, actually, they don’t they don’t make it in Seattle. There’s been a couple Teavana had a couple of places, locations, and they didn’t stay. There was one in New Village, One downtown. There is I saw a small coffee, excuse me, a tea place at the corner of John and, Broadway the other day, which I have not have not gone in, but I did see it. Mhmm. There’s also another one on second. But and the but the best one used to be on, Nineteenth, and it closed. K.

Sharon Campbell [00:59:23]:
So, unfortunately, I can’t give you a big tea.

Craig Campbell [00:59:26]:
So coffee centric.

Sharon Campbell [00:59:27]:
Coffee centric. Yeah.

Craig Campbell [00:59:28]:
Yes, it is. As we all know.

Scott Cowan [00:59:31]:
How about food in Yakima?

Sharon Campbell [00:59:34]:
Oh, food in Yakima. Well, we’re we’re so lucky now, because what’s happened in our little town of Tiaton,

Scott Cowan [00:59:41]:
Uh-huh.

Sharon Campbell [00:59:41]:
You know, the mighty Tiaton people, and they’ve, do you know about this?

Scott Cowan [00:59:45]:
I don’t. I just I don’t

Sharon Campbell [00:59:46]:
You should go interview to the mighty Tiaton people.

Scott Cowan [00:59:49]:
Okay.

Sharon Campbell [00:59:49]:
Yes. That’s your next stop for sure. But, there is now a a man who has quite a culinary background and there’s it’s called six one seven, and it’s on the square in Tieton

Scott Cowan [01:00:01]:
Okay.

Sharon Campbell [01:00:01]:
And his, Craig Singer. And he has a fantastic palate and menu and seasonal, and he does, I think it’s just Thursday, Friday, and Saturday.

Scott Cowan [01:00:13]:
Okay.

Sharon Campbell [01:00:13]:
But then he also has a small store on the Square, and he has provisions in there. So, you know, you can buy and there’s also, Titan Farm and Creamery.

Scott Cowan [01:00:22]:
Okay.

Sharon Campbell [01:00:24]:
Two people who are transplants from the, West Side who have make lovely cheese, and he carries all of their cheeses. Yes. So food in Yakima. So when I came here

Scott Cowan [01:00:36]:
Mhmm.

Sharon Campbell [01:00:37]:
There was one place that you could go for dinner, and that was pretty much it. And now that has completely changed. And, there’s several really good restaurants now.

Scott Cowan [01:00:47]:
Can I get you to name drop?

Sharon Campbell [01:00:48]:
Yeah. There’s Crafted. There’s Cowichy Canyon. I’m sorry. Is it I wanna say picnic, but that’s not it. The one that’s out by

Craig Campbell [01:00:58]:
Yeah. And what yeah. Provisions? Provisions.

Sharon Campbell [01:01:00]:
Provisions.

Scott Cowan [01:01:01]:
Okay.

Sharon Campbell [01:01:01]:
So those three are all excellent. And then, Craig, you told me about the other day about this great pizza place that’s here now.

Craig Campbell [01:01:08]:
Yeah. It’s called the Kiln. The Kiln? Kiln.

Scott Cowan [01:01:11]:
So why do you say it’s a great pizza place?

Craig Campbell [01:01:13]:
It’s just good pizza. I mean, I’ve I’ve I go I go by there from time to time on from one farm to the next. It’s good. Yeah. I know it for a fact.

Sharon Campbell [01:01:20]:
And they’re also good customers of Tides and Cider Works.

Scott Cowan [01:01:24]:
Yeah. Well, yeah. Well, yeah,

Craig Campbell [01:01:25]:
most of these restaurants buy some cider from us. But Sure. Alright. But, yeah, food is much improved in Yakima.

Scott Cowan [01:01:32]:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I went to college in Ellensburg and, you know, we’d come to come to Yakima. And, yeah, it wasn’t

Sharon Campbell [01:01:39]:
It was a desert. No.

Scott Cowan [01:01:40]:
In the early eighties, it was not a particularly inspiring place,

Craig Campbell [01:01:44]:
in your opinion. But but yeah. But Wellnesburg had it in that old kinda downtown. It was that restaurant that we used to go there Oh, sharing, I know I I know you know what I’m talking

Scott Cowan [01:01:55]:
about. I know. I I do too, and I can’t think of an I I think well, there’s one of two, and I’m drawing a blank on both of them.

Sharon Campbell [01:02:02]:
See, we’ll have to have a footnote at the end of the podcast.

Scott Cowan [01:02:05]:
But there was one kind of more of an upscale place that was in down in the downtown core.

Sharon Campbell [01:02:10]:
Right.

Scott Cowan [01:02:11]:
And I cannot think of the name of that.

Sharon Campbell [01:02:12]:
He was great. He was innovative, and he was great.

Scott Cowan [01:02:15]:
But there was also

Sharon Campbell [01:02:16]:
And there’s a yellow house.

Craig Campbell [01:02:18]:
A little yellow schoolhouse that was Right. More of a more of a lunch place. But,

Sharon Campbell [01:02:24]:
This doesn’t work in a podcast, so don’t don’t keep trying to do it.

Scott Cowan [01:02:27]:
Yeah. It’s not gonna work. We’ll skip this, folks. Just kidding. So let me ask you this last question. So I received an email from you guys, from Tiaton, inviting me up somewhere in late October for my tongue is planted firmly in cheek when I say this. Looking for free labor to harvest apples.

Craig Campbell [01:02:49]:
Oh. Oh, that was that was more tongue in cheek. I think it’s, is a cider club is we’re offering, you know, we still have a few apples left, so you can come up and pick a few apples if you’re interested and have lunch.

Sharon Campbell [01:03:01]:
There’s a there’s a harvest dinner. Right?

Craig Campbell [01:03:03]:
Right. Yeah. Harvest dinner at Mighty Titan.

Sharon Campbell [01:03:05]:
Yeah. At Mighty Titan. Okay.

Scott Cowan [01:03:06]:
Yeah. Okay.

Craig Campbell [01:03:07]:
And that’s so that’s kinda what it’s about.

Scott Cowan [01:03:09]:
I I was just I got this, and I was chuckling. Oh, the the labor. They they need me to provide labor.

Craig Campbell [01:03:14]:
Yeah. No. It’s, no. That was just a that was a joke on that part of it.

Scott Cowan [01:03:18]:
No. But it was it was actually I it worked the joke worked well. Yeah. But I think so in years past, you’ve had cider club members come up and take a look, and it I think it’s fascinating to see where the product comes from.

Sharon Campbell [01:03:33]:
Well, that’s that’s always the draw for people. And, we do another, separate from the cider club, but Craig and I started, probably ten or eleven years ago, One weekend and we have we’ve invited our friends and that and we have our friends from California come. Oh, wow. I mean, from Portland. I mean, they come and they just love this weekend. This year, one of my the first people who ever came, she lives in Mexico now, and she scheduled her trip so she could be here for our apple picking weekend. But, Craig is he, we take everybody we load, flatbed, trailers behind a tractor, and we take people through. And we and Craig gets out and he taste you know, he provides a little slice of each variety so people can decide if they like it.

Sharon Campbell [01:04:16]:
Oh. And then people pick and in the past, we had, charged them. And then this year when we do our our, apple picking, we’ve decided that we’ll make a donation to the Tiaton Arts and Humanities.

Scott Cowan [01:04:29]:
Okay.

Sharon Campbell [01:04:29]:
Yeah. This year. So

Scott Cowan [01:04:30]:
That’s amazing. Yeah. That’s that’s really wonderful.

Craig Campbell [01:04:33]:
And people like they bring their kids and, you know, we show them how to pick an apple. We don’t just yank it off the tree. You gotta kinda roll it off.

Sharon Campbell [01:04:39]:
That was that’s what I was gonna say. Because children, it’s been so great.

Craig Campbell [01:04:42]:
And they and they they they’re into picking an apple. Right.

Scott Cowan [01:04:45]:
They they Well, they don’t get to. If they’re living in Seattle or Portland or Los Angeles. Anywhere.

Sharon Campbell [01:04:49]:
I mean, even probably little kids in here. Right. Yakima may not know how

Scott Cowan [01:04:53]:
to go pick an apple, you know. Well, that’s certainly I mean, when I was a kid growing up in the Tacoma Puyallup area, you know, a lot of, you know, summers, we would make money by picking berries or beans and that and, you know, just don’t have that anymore. Right. You know, just, you know, so. But it’s it’s just good to get out

Craig Campbell [01:05:08]:
on a farm, be it beans or or berries or apples just to kinda get a feel for, like, what

Sharon Campbell [01:05:13]:
Where does your food come from?

Craig Campbell [01:05:15]:
Come from? I mean, in in for most everybody, where’s the food? It’s at the store. It always has been, but it has to it has to come from someplace to get to the store and that every commodity has a story, and they’re all pretty interesting.

Scott Cowan [01:05:28]:
Right. Yeah. Well, I think we’ll wrap it up with that. I could go down another rabbit hole, but I think I’ll spare you both. Okay. Thank you. Is there one do you have a last any last words? Where can people find out more about whatever and all of that?

Craig Campbell [01:05:43]:
Well, I think of our time in CyberWorks just to keep checking in with our website. We keep adding things about the new ideas, new things. We’ve got new creations coming.

Sharon Campbell [01:05:53]:
Yeah. I mean, and you can join our cider club, of course. And then our farm also has a website.

Scott Cowan [01:05:59]:
Okay.

Sharon Campbell [01:06:00]:
Harmonyorchards.com. And there’s a Apple page on there. Well, there’s actually a page for everything that we grow in different varieties and explains, you know, the parentage.

Scott Cowan [01:06:10]:
Okay.

Sharon Campbell [01:06:11]:
So, yeah, those are the two ways.

Craig Campbell [01:06:13]:
Anything. But,

Scott Cowan [01:06:14]:
So are you are the products from Harmony? Are they available locally? Are they, do you have, like, a farm stand or anything like that?

Craig Campbell [01:06:20]:
Or We don’t. We we we pack our own apricots and some specialty apples in there, and they’re shipped all over the country. Okay. And then the rest of it go to to warehouses and be at Yakima Wenatchee. Okay. And in the variety.

Scott Cowan [01:06:32]:
Great. Well, thank you both very much. I appreciate your kindness and letting me be here.

Sharon Campbell [01:06:37]:
You’re welcome. Thank you very much. Enjoyed this.