Andrew Hughes: Keeping One Foot On The Mountain and One Foot In Advocacy. A Climbers Story

Andrew Hughes, Seattle area high altitude athlete, is our guest for this episode.

Growing up in Poulsbo Andrew grew up playing outside and enjoying nature. He also grew up with Mount Rainier visible to him on a regular (remember we have clouds here) basis. Life has a way of happening and it was not until Andrew was in his 30’s that Mount Rainier would be a major player in Andrews life.

Climbing Mount Rainier helped open Andrew to a world of challenges and opportunities. He has now climbed the highest peaks on every single continent! In 2022 he will be going to the north pole on an expedition. Climbing, hiking, and high altitude athletic activities are now an iintegral part of Andrew’s life

During our conversation Andrew shares stories about some of his climbs. How he purposed to his finance from the summit of Mount Everest! How climbing, and exploring can help raise awareness of Human Rights, Conservation, and Environmental issue. We also find out how coffee can be considered self care when climbing mountains!

If you are an outdoor enthusiast you will find Andrew to be inspirational. If you have a desire to climb mountains Andrew’s journeys can help motivate, educate and inspire. Grab a cup of coffee and listen in to Andrew Hughes as he tells us how he Keeps One Foot On The Mountain and One Foot in Advocacy.

Andrew Hughes Episode Transcript

Scott Cowan [00:00:00]:

What’s the Explorer’s Grand Slam?

Andrew Hughes [00:00:02]:

So four Grand Slam

Scott Cowan [00:00:03]:

Sounds like a I’m sorry. That sounds like a Denny’s breakfast. Welcome to the Exploring Washington State podcast. Here’s your host, Scott Cowan. Well, welcome back to the Exploring Washington State podcast. Full disclosure, I’m recording this in the morning. And Andrew, Hughes, and I are sitting here having coffee while we talk. And so whenever you’re listening to this, you know, drink coffee because that’s what you should be doing.

Scott Cowan [00:00:44]:

Andrew, first off, thanks for for making this happen. You’ve been great at communication, and I’m gonna kinda just give a super, super high level, what I know about you, and then I’m gonna ask you to fill in the blanks. You climb a lot of mountains. Tell me more.

Andrew Hughes [00:01:01]:

Yeah. I I I do. But I I didn’t start, I mean, until my my mid thirties. I grew up in the Northwest, kind of in a small pulse, though, for those who are from the Northwest,

Scott Cowan [00:01:15]:

a

Andrew Hughes [00:01:15]:

little Norwegian town. We grew up in a kind of in a farm over there on in Big Valley, which sounds very ideal idyllic. Ran a bed and breakfast, for basically my entire childhood. So

Scott Cowan [00:01:28]:

Oh, okay.

Andrew Hughes [00:01:29]:

My my initial kind of kind of exposure with the nature was literally running up behind in the hills with the black bears and kind of, like, making forts in the old logging kind of cabins that kind of become dilapidated, in that area and heading over and doing camps over the Olympic Peninsula. But, I think for anyone who’s a Northwesterner, you kind of always have Rainier in your eyes and your heart. It just sits on the horizon, and it’s kind of part of the the Northwestern identity a little bit. Like, whether you’re climate or not, it’s just it’s just there. So, for me, like, eventually, I kind of in my early thirties, I just had this calling to to go climate, and no one else in my life seemed to have that same calling. So I just ended up finding a a a, a great guiding group. We’re very blessed in the Northwest, to have a lot of incredible, operators could do, amazing climbs both domestically and internationally. And so with Alpine Ascents and, love the process, fell in love with climbing the mountains as much as looking to them on the horizon and set off a huge journey over the last several years, that has taken me to all seven continents.

Andrew Hughes [00:02:38]:

Climbed everywhere from Antarctica to Papua New Guinea to to Everest. And it it’s something that has forever changed my life and and changed the way I view the outdoors and nature. And, I’m doing all I can to not go back to a standard nine to five and find a way to continue to to keep at least one foot, on the mountain and one foot kind of in the advocacy for advocacy for the outdoors itself.

Scott Cowan [00:03:03]:

So we’ve had other mountain climbing guests on the show before. And my idea of climbing a mountain is the incline from my mailbox to my house. I I mean, I am I, you know, I’m not no. Not not for me. But To

Andrew Hughes [00:03:22]:

be to be fair, that that that can be a mountain in itself. I mean, like, I don’t know. Snow, a few weeks ago, I could barely watch my car outside. So

Scott Cowan [00:03:28]:

Well, yeah.

Andrew Hughes [00:03:28]:

We we

Scott Cowan [00:03:29]:

got at our at our place, we got over three feet in less than a day, which I’ve never lived anywhere in my life with this much snow on the ground. I see it in the mountains, but not not in my driveway. But the point though is that I’m picking up this kind of thread between you and past guests, which is it’s almost seems like and and in the in the word I’m gonna use is in a negative word. I don’t mean it to be negative, but it’s almost like it’s becomes an addiction. Like, you you’re compelled to keep climbing. And, one of our guests had had, you know, has told me he’s summited Rainier, I think, 13 times. Don’t quote me on that if I’m wrong, but it’s more than a dozen and and less than a hundred. Okay.

Scott Cowan [00:04:13]:

That’s a lot of times. You’re Yeah. You went and you wait till your thirties, and you go you go climb Rainier, and now you’ve traveled the globe. That’s commitment. Yeah.

Andrew Hughes [00:04:31]:

I mean

Scott Cowan [00:04:32]:

You don’t just go do that. You don’t, like hey. Let’s go to Everest tomorrow.

Andrew Hughes [00:04:37]:

Yeah. I mean, I agree. I I think I think we we all get different callings in life sometimes, and, I I always say, like, I started when I started climbing, it was very adversarial. It was, like, me versus nature, me versus the mountain. And I think a lot of people come in there because it’s about, like, trying to conquer something because maybe you’ve lost control about something else in your life, and so you’re trying to take control over nature. And I learned very early on, the humility of great heights and the importance that the the mother nature and, the mountain is the one who dictates and decides, whether you reach the summits or not. And so there was this, growing up, I think, as I climbed up mountains that changed it from this adversarial relationship to almost a communion and a connection. And so the way I kind of think about it when I talk about climbing for me is that if if you are somebody of of faith, or religion, you you go back, to church maybe on a weekly basis to hear the sermon.

Andrew Hughes [00:05:46]:

And if, and and that’s something I feel with the outdoors is as well is that you you go back because you want to be remanded and grounded in kind of that communion, with, I think, a special place. And then we were very lucky that for all of us, it’s simply outside our door usually, because it doesn’t have to be big mountains to be in the outdoors or natural spaces. And then forever itself, it it it’s kind of, I would use it as a pilgrimage. I think other people really put it like, sometimes it’s a bad rap. It’s just like a a cocktail mountain where people wanna, like, basically, like, conquer it and then go back and, like, go to a cocktail party and talk about it. For me, it was a very personal and kind of spiritual thing to do because it’s Nepal itself is a beautiful and spiritual place, and climbing, climbing it is a huge privilege, and opportunity to, I think, pay homage to the history of climbing and also to a very special mountain. I mean, it’s if you’re if you’re Muslim, you go to Mecca. If you’re Catholic, you go to, to the Vatican.

Andrew Hughes [00:06:53]:

Everest may not be the most technical, and it always kind of gets, debated as to, like, like, K 2 is the mountaineer’s mountain, but it’s still the highest mountain on Earth. And to go there and and pay pay homage to it was, like, a calling that I had to do at some point in my life. So or twice in my thing since the first time didn’t work out so well. So, but yeah. So I’ve for me, it’s it is. It’s it’s it is an it is an addiction, but I think it’s more of an addiction of, kind of having this, like, really personal relationship and community and family that’s been built from being out there, and wanting to kind of maintain and foster that and help other people find ways to also have that experience.

Scott Cowan [00:07:37]:

So I love hearing that. That’s you know? I mean, first off, you just said something. Once again, you know, I know I grew up in the in the shadow of Rainier. I grew up in the Puyallup, Tacoma Puyallup area. So, I mean, Rainier was out my my backdoor.

Andrew Hughes [00:07:52]:

Beautiful.

Scott Cowan [00:07:52]:

And I took it I took it for granted, you know, because it was it was there a lot. I mean, not every day because there’s clouds, but, you know, it was rainier was always there. And Everest has always been well, you know, it’s to the layman, at least to me, you know, it’s the the tallest mountain. So, of course, you’re successful if you climb if you summit Everest. Mhmm. But I’ve read recently, you know, in the general news that, you know, that there’s, like, a line of people going up Everest. It’s almost like it’s a traffic jam. There’s so many people, going on that mountain at this time.

Scott Cowan [00:08:25]:

Is that did you experience that kind of sort of

Andrew Hughes [00:08:29]:

Yeah. I I think, like, the it’s a really complicated mountain. Right? So, like, that’s and and I think it’s complicated in a way that

Scott Cowan [00:08:39]:

the

Andrew Hughes [00:08:41]:

the media doesn’t necessarily always like, this year, there wasn’t a ton of coverage on Everest because there wasn’t a lot of carnage, and there wasn’t a lot of death. Like, I was on the mountain in 02/2019 when NIMS, took that photo on the summit, with with the lines going along the the summit ridge. And, you had one of the highest death tolls on that. And it was it it it was it was a lot of chaos, but what’s what’s focused on oftentimes is not the mountain itself and the route and the conditions, but the people on the mountain. Okay. And I I think it at times and I think NIMS came out later on and and talked about this is that with climate change itself, you see the impact that’s happening when it comes to what was once a really wide summit window. So, usually, on Everest, you would have, starting in early May, the ropes would be able to be set to the summit by the incredible Sherpa and house two mountaineers, from Nepal that that do that. It’s rotated between different teams who kind of, like, put forth, like, their best to go do that.

Andrew Hughes [00:09:44]:

And and then you’d have, like, two to three weeks where you’d have several windows, of multiple days for people to kind of, like, scatter themselves and coordinate. And what’s happened, especially in the last few years with climate change, is you have these, smaller and smaller weather windows where, in 02/2019, you legitimately had maybe one and a half, maybe two days available. And so you still have the same amount of people in the mountain, and now you’re trying to everyone is basically kind of gets bottlenecked up into a specific place on the mountain waiting for that moment. And so it creates these kind of traffic jams, but it’s really only on the upper part of the mountain. Okay. And it’s really only during the summit push. The rest of the time on the mountain, people are kind of doing their own rotations and training, and and it’s not there. But and it’s almost the nature of the mountain itself.

Andrew Hughes [00:10:36]:

There is really only one route once you kind of leave Camp 2 up the loads you face through Camp 3, up to Camp 4, Camp 4 to the summit. That’s it’s kind of like a it’s like driving on an old country road on a mountain where there’s only one one lane. You know? There’s you gotta kinda slow down and find ways for people to pull off, to get around you. And and that’s kind of, like, how Everest is. On that last day, everyone is, trying to get up there, and everyone’s helping each other out usually as best as possible. It’s just kind of it’s the nature of it. For me, I didn’t mind it. We this year, we definitely still had maybe a couple hundred people on our summit push, but you’re also moving at such a slow pace.

Andrew Hughes [00:11:15]:

You’re not running up there that for me, going slow and having people in front of me or behind me didn’t matter when everyone was moving at the same pace. There there’s one crux kind of where the hill your stuff used to be, but besides that, you kind of, like I took it as an advantage of, like, taking a few steps and then looking around at the most beautiful place you’re ever gonna see at that altitude. And so I I think there is definitely an issue with people who are there for the wrong reasons and who have not put in the years of time preparing and are just kind of paying to be pulled up the mountain, and you see that. Mhmm. And you you see a lot of people get that summit fever and and push and create dangers for themselves and and the people that are supporting them and around them. But, I I think the the weather and the climate change is is the bigger issue because, the lines are a product of that because changing the weather windows. And so you’re getting people to have less days to climb. Like, this year, there was, I think, two to three days where there should have been have been, like, seven to 10.

Andrew Hughes [00:12:21]:

And so even our I mean, we had the summit with our with our small team of, like, seven to 10 people for half an hour by ourselves. So, like, it wasn’t like a huge crowd up in the summit, and we left only because we wanted to get down safely. But I do think, like, the the greater conversation is how do we ensure that the people are properly trained to go up the mountain to not create risk for themselves and for the the Sherpa and Nepalese that are helping them climb? And how do we also deal with climate change issues that are changing the entire face of the mountain, the glacier, and creating these weather windows that are, really making it more and more prohibitive and lowering the rates of success every year. Sorry for the long answer, but that was it’s kind of it’s a very, like, complex issue, and a lot of people kind of, kind of see what the media gives them because it and it gets, like, that late May. You get that, like, news article that comes out kind of every year, about and they’re they’re hoping for that. And if it doesn’t happen, you never hear really bad ever, so it’s just I think it’s, like, known as good news sometimes. So

Scott Cowan [00:13:24]:

Being a complete layman here, you’ve just said a couple of things in this in your answer that, you know, spark a response for me, and that is I I had no idea that the window was so small. I I had no clue. I I just think I assumed there’s snow on the mountain. People are climbing it. Just naively, I think I mean, I I I might sound like a complete idiot saying that, but that’s kind of where I thought. And so when you tell me that this year, there might have been a, let’s say, a two day window last last year. You know? That’s mind boggling to me that there’s two days.

Andrew Hughes [00:14:03]:

Yeah. I mean, we had we had two cyclones hit the mountain as we were pushing up from Camp 2, and some of the hardest days that have been on the mountain. And we had teams that were extremely qualified, but they arrived at Camp 4 20 4 Hours after we did, and we were fortunate enough to hit that window for like, there’s an eighteen hour window maybe before the storm came back in again against the summit. And they sat at Camp 4 for two days, which is the max you can because you you catch so much oxygen up there, and your body’s deteriorating at such a rate that after two days, you either are up or you’re off. Okay. And so there’s a lot of people that were like it’s just about kind of, like so it’s about timing and trying to have, like, a team and be ready to be at the right place at the right time. And this year, it was just it just there was one other, I think, team that came up really at the end of the season, and just basically snuck in, for, like, like, they’re the only team on the mountain at the end, but they’re really late. Mhmm.

Andrew Hughes [00:15:07]:

But the rest of the rest of the teams try to hit around the the twentieth, twenty second, twenty third this year, and the twenty third was the only day you can summit. And there were some really early on, but it just it takes so long for the weather conditions and everything to properly get set for the rope teams to kind of set the ropes so we can have fixed lines and protection. Otherwise, there would be a ton more, I think, death and, injury on the mountain if it wasn’t for the incredible work that kind of the those, Sherpa Nepalese are doing up high in the mountains in the road suit. Because you do see people coming off the ones I’m talking about that probably have not trained, that are really just kind of there probably for for the glory aspect of it. And Mhmm. They come they they run the wheels off the summit. And when they’re coming down, there you can just see kind of the the danger that would be there if they weren’t clipped in. So, yeah, it’s it’s kind of a it’s it’s getting fewer and fewer when it comes to days of the mountains.

Andrew Hughes [00:16:04]:

It’s still doable, but you just spend so much time acclimating. By the time you actually are ready for the summit, it’s usually early to to mid May. So

Scott Cowan [00:16:14]:

Well, let’s contrast that with Rainier. And what’s Rainier’s season?

Andrew Hughes [00:16:20]:

I mean, Rainier, you feasibly can climb year round. It just winter climbs of any mountain are substantially more dangerous. Mhmm. I mean, people have done winter ascents of Rainier. It’s just it takes a different breed that wants to do that and and somebody who, really, has a really strong skill set. You can get a lot of danger really quickly, in winter climbing. But I think, like, you start getting into the spring and to probably mid to late summer before it really, kind of starts opening up where you can climb Rainier. The the problem is, again, I mean, Rainier is a hometown, symbol of climate change as well, and I think anybody that looks to it can see how much more, like, how how much the snow and ice has melted off the glaciers, over the years, and you can see more it looks more browner in the summer times from the horizon.

Andrew Hughes [00:17:17]:

And and when you get up there, you you’re also seeing the fact that it is just it’s cracking open a lot, a lot more. The standard routes don’t stay open as long as they used to, so you’re now using alternative routes to get up there, which creates more technicality. It’s definitely still climbable, but it just increases the the risk and changes kind of the season dynamics.

Scott Cowan [00:17:39]:

Well, I noticed this year just just observing the the mountain, it looks different.

Andrew Hughes [00:17:44]:

Yep. Just

Scott Cowan [00:17:44]:

from, you know, from the when I was over in Tacoma or I see it kind of in the Yakima area, it looked it’s like, wow. There’s no snow up there. It was visibly Yeah. Wow. This looks different.

Andrew Hughes [00:17:57]:

Yeah. Yeah. I I I climbed it. I didn’t climb it at this. I I just, did a little journey up there, for a project just to mirror. But even then, like, going up and just kinda looking at it kinda closer up, it it definitely is every year, I feel, especially as we get warmer and warmer summers up here Mhmm. And less rainfall, you’re you’re seeing kind of the the glaciers disappear on the mountain itself, and, that just creates all kinds of other issues that kind of ripple.

Scott Cowan [00:18:26]:

I’m on your website. I’m gonna ask you to explain something because there’s there’s a lot to I

Andrew Hughes [00:18:32]:

need I need to update it as well. I apologize.

Scott Cowan [00:18:34]:

Okay. So on the to do list. I’m I’m gonna read your headline, and and the headline says fastest known times in first. So that’s what we’re talking about. Some the you’ve you’ve completed the seven summits, which are listed as the highest mountains on each continent. Yeah. K? First off, I kinda chuckle because I don’t really think of Australia as having mountains.

Andrew Hughes [00:18:54]:

So, yeah, there there’s two there. So the the original list, by Bass, included Kosciuszko in Australia Uh-huh. Which legitimately, there’s a chairlift up to it, and then you basically walk on a paved path over thing. We we we did we did it without the chairlift one morning as well. Yeah. It it’s actually I mean, it’s a beautiful it’s kind of a beautiful trekking down in kind of this Red Bull area. Like, that park is gorgeous and, like, beautiful, like, trails that go kind of off along these ridgelines down in Australia. But, Messner came a little bit after Bath and created a a secondary list, and which is generally held as the more true.

Andrew Hughes [00:19:33]:

And all my I have a bunch of family in Australia, and they’re probably gonna get emails from them or if I ever told them this. But, like, the the more held to be true summit is actually, Carson’s Pyramid or Punggye Chaya, which is in Indonesia, which is about 17 I think it’s sixteen, seventeen thousand feet, and it’s the most technical, but it’s basically rock climbing. You have, like, these, like, like, rope traverses at 15,000 feet over huge gaps, and it’s up in the jungle of, Indonesia. Like so that’s actually the the the more true seventh summit. Some people will just claim the Australian one because they don’t wanna go do the more technical one, but I did both to the future. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:20:17]:

So what are the what are the seven summits?

Andrew Hughes [00:20:20]:

So for for Australia, Oceania, depending upon whose list you’re going. Okay. Kiyosaki in Australia, or, Cartesian Pyramid in Indonesia, are the debated ones. Okay. Then you have Denali, up or formerly as McKinley in, Alaska for the North America, Aconcagua down in South America, looking in Argentina and the Andes.

Scott Cowan [00:20:43]:

How tall is that? Approximately, what’s that?

Andrew Hughes [00:20:47]:

That’s over 22,000 feet. It’s the highest mountain in the world outside the Himalayas. Wow. So it’s it’s pretty it’s pretty big. It’s usually used as a mountain that most operators, will recommend and want their climbers to do before going to, say, do Everest. And so if you’re like you just, like, wanna climb Everest, it’s, like, one of those prerequisites they want you to do because it’s unfair it’s not a very technical mountain, but the altitude itself is a technicality. Mhmm. So they want you to climb that mountain to see how your body you’re not using o’s.

Andrew Hughes [00:21:20]:

So you just to see how your body reacts and to train your body how to take take care of yourself at altitude, over, like, a two and a half to three week, usually, expedition depending upon what weather conditions are. But, it’s beautiful. And then afterwards, you’re in, Mendoza where there’s great mobile bags to drink wine. So, I mean, not not a bad place to go for

Scott Cowan [00:21:39]:

a while. Place to to recover from. Okay.

Andrew Hughes [00:21:41]:

Exactly. Alright. And so, and then, kinda popping over to, Africa, you have Kilimanjaro, which a lot of people also use as kind of their entryway to, like, bigger mountains.

Scott Cowan [00:21:52]:

Mhmm.

Andrew Hughes [00:21:52]:

It’s also stunning. And then, heading up to Europe, you have, Elbrus, which is in Russia, but, is about 18,000 feet. Those are the highest volcano there. Some some people, if you you move over to, like, we’ll consider, like, Mont Blanc because it’s the highest mountain in Western Europe. I’ve climbed that as well. But,

Scott Cowan [00:22:13]:

I thought that was a pen company.

Andrew Hughes [00:22:15]:

Yeah. It is. It’s a great pen company as well. Sorry. But yeah. But, so but Alberts is is Alberts is also not extreme I mean, any mountain can be hard on any given day, but, like, it you can actually like, it’s a fairly doable mountain, I think, for a lot of people, as a good kind of training point, as well.

Scott Cowan [00:22:35]:

K.

Andrew Hughes [00:22:36]:

And then, you move down to Antarctica, pop all the way back down. You have Mount or Vincent Or Vincent Mastiff, which is, just in the central kind of, kind of, kind of continental ice, mountain range. I can’t remember the range right now. But that’s not too tall, but that mountain and because it’s Antarctica is can be extremely demanding and challenging. It’s the coldest place I’ve ever been in my life for a long period of time. And then, of course, Everest, wraps you up for Asia.

Scott Cowan [00:23:09]:

And then there’s the six volk the volcanic summits, which are the highest on each continent. So Yeah. We’ve named a couple of those. And we’ll just I’m gonna skip over that because you you just named some monster clients. Yeah. But what I don’t know is what’s the Explorer’s Grand Slam?

Andrew Hughes [00:23:26]:

So the four Grand Slam

Scott Cowan [00:23:27]:

Sounds like a I’m sorry. That sounds like a Denny’s breakfast. I’m sorry. Yeah.

Andrew Hughes [00:23:30]:

And and I remember bad. Two eggs, bacon, and and sausage sounds great. Soft and pepper.

Scott Cowan [00:23:35]:

Warned you. That would be irreverent. Okay.

Andrew Hughes [00:23:37]:

No. It’s my childhood right there there in midsole. Yeah. So the four grand slam is a a further kind of evolution of the seven summits. The first to ever do it was Hillary, though he did it by flying to the North Pole. So he’s kind of, has a little asterisk by his name, but he did some endeavors, first. So I guess he can kind of hang his hat. Okay.

Andrew Hughes [00:24:03]:

But, so what essentially includes is the seven summits that we just kind of mentioned and then also reaching both the South Pole and the North Pole, generally by your own means. There there’s, like, there’s a small differentiation. So there’s about 20 people who have ever done, like, full traverses, which, I have not done. So those people have have done, like, Antarctica and North Pole traverses fully across from the outer shelf, say, from Hercules Inlet or from some other, aspect that is, basically agreed upon that is on the outer side, and then they traverse to the poles. Okay. There’s about 20 people that have ever done that. And then there’s people like myself who are striving to do the last degree, which is kind of like an abridged version. And for the Arctic, maybe not the only version you can do unless you wanna kayak, in the next couple years or take a boat part of it because it’s melting out so so much.

Andrew Hughes [00:24:59]:

But, just trying to reach both the North And South Poles as well.

Scott Cowan [00:25:04]:

Okay. And so that’s what we were talking about before we hit record is that you’re going to the North Pole then this spring.

Andrew Hughes [00:25:11]:

Yeah. Yeah. And, fly out March 28 to try this expedition. It’s been canceled the last three years, So it’s kind of indicative of how how hard this logistically is to make it happen. So

Scott Cowan [00:25:23]:

One of the things that you said before we hit record that was, you know, interesting to me was you were talking about tracking people on their GPSs and and you so this last 16 miles that you referenced, this which 16 miles doesn’t sound, you know, oh, it’s 16 miles. Okay. It can be done. But we’re doing it on ice. And not only that, you were saying that when people are sleeping, the ice keeps shifting so that they could be gaining or losing or going off off you know, going to the East when they need to be going to the West. Yeah. But you mentioned you’re sleeping. You wanna make sure you’re trying to sleep on old ice versus new ice.

Scott Cowan [00:26:05]:

Yeah. How does one tell the age of ice?

Andrew Hughes [00:26:10]:

Yeah. So, there’s there’s ways to kind of tell if you if you’re looking at the floats because it’s kind of like puzzle pieces in the in the Arctic. Generally, from from my knowledge that I’ve never had actually sleep on it yet, so I’m looking forward to, like, learning hands on a lot more. But my understanding is is essentially it’s kind of, you you you don’t wanna be on the outer edges of these things. So the the older ice is what is essentially the core. And then these cores are these big floats, that are kind of connected, and you’re staying away from the the the areas that are forming just based upon seasonal or, more of a sense as as the day. I mean, it’s twenty four hour daylight, but the outer edges are gonna be much thinner where those kind of breaking points have happened. So you’re trying to find large chunks of these flows, large puzzle pieces, and then in the middle of that’s where you’re gonna set up camp.

Andrew Hughes [00:27:08]:

Okay. Because we’re not we’re not we’re not drilling in, and it’s not kind of, like, on, say, like Denali where we’re we’re kind of wandering out to make sure that we’re not camping over crevasses or something like that to, like, set our camp perimeters. We can’t do that with the ice. Can’t drill in to see how deep it is. And so it’s kind of more reading the environment around you and then Mhmm. Determining kind of a a safe zone in which to kind of set up camp and keep yourself. So in the middle of the night, it doesn’t split open underneath you, and you get a a cold shower that you’ll never forget. So we’ll come back from them.

Scott Cowan [00:27:40]:

So We’ll come back from them. Yeah. Okay. I first off, you you have far more you’re far more brave and courageous than I’ll ever be. Even if I was in shape, I’m like, yeah. I don’t wanna do any of this. As far as I’d be terrified to do it. It’s not that I don’t watch it.

Scott Cowan [00:27:53]:

I’d be too scared. I could I wouldn’t get out of my fear. But that’s something that you you also kinda reference on your site is self mastery, shall I say, of your of your mental state. You know? I’m I’m I’m basically admitting to having a weak mental constitution for for anyone that’s listening to this show. And you’ve got a headline saying, you know, doing away with self doubt and and things like that.

Andrew Hughes [00:28:21]:

How

Scott Cowan [00:28:23]:

how have you managed that? How have you how have you I mean, it

Andrew Hughes [00:28:29]:

Yeah. I think I think

Scott Cowan [00:28:30]:

You must be scared. You must be scared.

Andrew Hughes [00:28:32]:

You know

Scott Cowan [00:28:32]:

what I mean? Good.

Andrew Hughes [00:28:33]:

Yeah. I I think, like, the I think people who say they have no fear, I’m afraid of, to be honest. Okay. I I I would never wanna climb with somebody that had no fear because I feel a lack of fear is also kind of a lack of respect. Okay. And I think it’s it’s about redefining your relationship with fear and discomfort. And for me, it’s it’s almost like a form of meditation. Going out there, you your your your daily kind of meditating and working through it’s for those who, like, practice yoga or doing that, you know, your daily practice.

Andrew Hughes [00:29:07]:

So

Scott Cowan [00:29:08]:

Mhmm.

Andrew Hughes [00:29:08]:

No matter whether we’re on the mountain or whether we’re in life and, like, applying for a new job or applying ourselves or starting a new company or asking that person out that we have feelings for, like, those are all kind of daily meditations on how we deal with fear, discomfort, like, self doubt. It’s not to say we’re getting rid of those things. It’s saying, like, what we’re gonna do with them when we face them today, and what is our relationship gonna be with them. And so for me, they’re especially in the world we live in today where a lot of we’re always trying to find the way that make things easier, make things more comfortable, whether it’s kind of there’s a lot of disconnect that comes with that as well, from the world around us. And so I find when you kind of go to the mountain, sometimes you you’re face to face with discomfort in a lot of ways that we don’t have to face in our daily lives. And, also, you’re also faced or given the opportunity to have incredible connection both with yourself, with the people you’re with because you’re not tethered to all the things that are pulling you in different directions on every get any given day. And I think that’s a a powerful gift to give yourself and also, kinda like, like trench warfare back in the day. Like, when you go to the outdoors, you’re you’re trying to gain a little bit of ground into the person that you maybe want to be and, like, how you wanna live your life, and then you come back to reality in in the real world that has all the other things.

Andrew Hughes [00:30:31]:

And you’re just trying to keep a little bit of that ground that you fought for. You’re gonna give it up a lot some of that, but you’re just trying to always inch forward to kind of become more and more closer to, like, that that place that is home for you and where you’re happy, or most happy. So I

Scott Cowan [00:30:49]:

have I have lots of see, the I’m sorry. The trench warfare thing just got me like, woah.

Andrew Hughes [00:30:55]:

Yeah. That I think

Scott Cowan [00:30:56]:

that’s the first time someone’s mentioned trench warfare on the show.

Andrew Hughes [00:30:59]:

Yeah. I I There’s a first. You can put

Scott Cowan [00:31:00]:

that on your website.

Andrew Hughes [00:31:01]:

I’m gonna keep pulling pulling for different things. There’s we got a lot of on the mountain, there’s there’s nothing to pull from. So you start pulling from every metaphor you can ever possibly think of to kinda try to describe what it is to be out there.

Scott Cowan [00:31:13]:

So This is a question I mean, this is gonna sound it it’s kind of referencing on something you just it it what you just said kinda triggered the question. And I understand that what I’m about to ask you is gonna sound like, you know, every lazy person’s question. But when you’re when you’re on the summit of, insert name of mountain here, and you’re probably taking some photo documentation of yourself that you’re you’re on the Summit Of Kilimanjaro. Right?

Andrew Hughes [00:31:49]:

Mhmm.

Scott Cowan [00:31:50]:

Are you whipping out your iPhone, and do you have service?

Andrew Hughes [00:31:55]:

IPhone, yes. Generally, because it’s your phone, basically, whether you’re doing Android or iPhones or whatever, those those are your your one piece of technology that generally you’re carrying up there. You have a backup cam, but no service ever. Like, e even up there, I mean, like, it’s

Scott Cowan [00:32:14]:

it’s I’m glad to hear that, actually. Because Yeah.

Andrew Hughes [00:32:16]:

That that

Scott Cowan [00:32:16]:

there’s places in the world that should not have connectivity.

Andrew Hughes [00:32:20]:

Yeah. Exactly. And and, when I started climbing because there was satellite options, like, you can carry, like, an inReach, from Garmin, stuff like that. You could text them back, and you can bring cell phones. When I when I started off, it was very much again, I think, selfishly wanted to be completely disconnected, and I was going through a lot. And I just I I wanted that severing, that cleavage between me and all connection back home.

Scott Cowan [00:32:46]:

Mhmm.

Andrew Hughes [00:32:47]:

What I realized, that was also very, unthoughtful to the feelings of family and friends back home who also love you and are concerned for you, and you are in a dangerous place. And so I’ve I’ve found this kind of spot in between where I’ll bring, bring some kind of satellite communication devices so I can communicate at home. And, essentially, I have a loving fiance who has gone through a lot of mountains and a lot of ups and downs in in climbing and in dangerous situations. And I think, well, you know, part of your your love of the mountains also has to be a loving respect for the people in your life and to, like, give them lifelines at home. But it is nice as well that, like, you’re not getting emails throughout the day. You’re not getting text messages blowing up. Those group chats aren’t hitting you. So, and it it’s nice to kind of just have that moment of kind of, like, you you have your phone, but all you’re doing is reading on it or listening to music or thinking.

Andrew Hughes [00:33:48]:

So it’s really lovely. But they are actually it’s great because because, batteries are getting better and, cameras are getting better on most phones. Most of my stuff I take is is on my iPhone when I’m on the mount. It’s just because the best camera you’re gonna have is the one you’re actually gonna use and and ounces become pounds the higher you climb. And so, like, if if you can make it work with smaller and, it’s definitely not gonna you’re not gonna be able to blow it up to a Jimmy Chin, like, kind of, poster, but, but you can definitely still, like, make beautiful things to kind of, like, share your journey with friends and family back home, with kind of a smaller devices.

Scott Cowan [00:34:28]:

That’s just the way my brain works. You’re you’re telling me about this meditative component to it. And I’m like, well, does your phone work on the top? I

Andrew Hughes [00:34:34]:

mean Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:34:35]:

I I know logically. The answer better be no. I mean, honestly

Andrew Hughes [00:34:38]:

Yeah. People when I when I post things, and share kind of stories on social media, they’re like, how does he have, like, service? And, I mean, I I was yeah. I I I think it’s yeah. But I I I understand it because in a way, it’s something that connects. Right? So, like, you you you see the use of a phone or something like that on the mountain, and it’s like we’re always looking for ways to kind of understand the situation. And so, like, how we go to the bathroom? Like, what do we do with the host things? Like like, what like, what kind of technology? Like, how to use your phone? All those things, like, are kind of ways that kind of bring environments and locations that maybe are unknown into unknown, and I think that’s helpful because and I and I love that because it just creates an opportunity to start talking about all the other aspects of it as well.

Scott Cowan [00:35:24]:

So Right. You mentioned your fiance. Yeah. Did I I think so the the story of how we’ve heard about you is that my my daughter, Mackenzie, I think, stumbled across you on social media. So she you know, because she’s she’s our social media we call her our social media maven.

Andrew Hughes [00:35:49]:

Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:35:49]:

Yeah. So she’s she’s out there doing a lot of, you know, like, oh, this this this individual look oh, this is a cool story. Let’s talk about that. Scott, you talked to him and all that.

Andrew Hughes [00:35:56]:

And Very helpful. Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:35:58]:

I I wanna say that there’s a story there.

Andrew Hughes [00:36:02]:

Yeah. I mean, she so, Lauren has been an exceptional partner, and I don’t think I could have climbed, especially the way I climbed the last few years without her. I think she’s made me a better climber because of her being in my life. Okay. There’s just, you kind of, like, you change kind of your risk, and you become more, I think, thoughtful about the way that you approach mountains when you have someone or something you wanna come home to. And I I I don’t think I would have been able to kind of be as inspired, but also make the right calls at the right time, during the last few years where there was crossroads in that decision making process without her and my life. And so, she went through a in kind of near Summit Of Everest in 02/2019, where I got pneumonia on the way to the summit and and called my own, at kind of I was at 20 Camp 2, looked like two days away from the summit, basically, and, just something didn’t feel right. And I think the old me would have been like, I’m not gonna tell anybody.

Andrew Hughes [00:37:19]:

I was gonna kind of put it down, and and that’s the year that, everyone was dying on the stomach because they couldn’t get off. And it was just kind of just a horrific year with people people dying, and I I feel like without her and and without kind of that humility that I had gained through other experiences, I I might have pushed upwards, and may not be here talking to you this morning because of that. So but I was also at peace with that knowing that I was making the right call because I was going back to her and my family. And, so, this year when I went back to Everest, it felt only right that if I made the summit, I knew I wanted to propose to her. And I I wanted her to know that, like, her love was always gonna be and her was always gonna be higher than any summit peak. So, so yeah. So when I I was fortunate enough to get to the summit, and kind of get down on one knee and propose with a flag I carried up there, to her. Didn’t tell her I was doing any of this.

Andrew Hughes [00:38:24]:

I just kind of brought the flag back down. People in the summit knew about it, but no one else did. And then we got back here to to warmer weather, and she was back here waiting for me. Took her out in the Lake Washington on a beautiful summer day and gave her, the flag wrapped up in a photo of me holding the the the summit flag on the summit of Everest, and proposed to her at sea level. And, yeah. So now Very cool. Very cool. So but, I mean, it’s it’s one of those things.

Andrew Hughes [00:38:51]:

Like, you just you just realize the mountain pull a lot of meaning, but, we never really get to those places and those kind of dreams without the people in our lives helping us get there. So

Scott Cowan [00:39:03]:

She she is a climber as well. Correct?

Andrew Hughes [00:39:04]:

No. She’s not. No. She she actually hates the cold. So, yeah. So so, yeah, she’s very fortunate, though, because I have so much puffy gear that she always has plenty to to wrap up in. But, I mean, she she loves the outdoors, and she loves, like, going out and hiking. And, I mean, she’s from Gig Harbor, so she’s a Northwestern herself.

Scott Cowan [00:39:26]:

Okay.

Andrew Hughes [00:39:26]:

But Alright. She’s she’s more she while while I went to the mountains, she went to all our beautiful lakes and waterways and grew up water skiing and kind of more on the water. And I on the farm, we didn’t have we had a pond, and there was definitely there was not any any skiing or

Scott Cowan [00:39:43]:

or things

Andrew Hughes [00:39:44]:

to be done on that. So Okay. Alright. We we we go to different forms of water. She goes to the wet stuff. I go to the frozen stuff.

Scott Cowan [00:39:51]:

Okay. So so how did you guys meet? How the two of you meet?

Andrew Hughes [00:39:56]:

Classic blind date. Couple Okay. Interested mothers who have kids who are single, created this Yenta pipeline for us and, randomly, disconnected us, about, well, 02/2018, in December. So it was a Christmas present for a blind date, and, sometimes the old sometimes the old ways work as good as ever. So

Scott Cowan [00:40:20]:

Wow. Well, that’s awesome. That’s a great Yeah.

Andrew Hughes [00:40:23]:

That’s a great story, man. Yeah. Yeah. It was wonderful. So, yeah. And just she’s been a kinda partner that I could dream of in this life. So excited for for maybe less big climbs, but more expeditions and life together, so in different way. Okay.

Andrew Hughes [00:40:38]:

So

Scott Cowan [00:40:40]:

What we’ve, you know, we’ve kind of violated the whole premise of my show, which is all about Washington State because we really haven’t you we’ve mentioned Paulsbo in Gig Harbor, and that’s it. Yeah. It’s okay. But what keeps you coming back to the area? What and you’ve been traveling the world. Why do you keep coming I’ll say home, but why do you keep coming back? I

Andrew Hughes [00:41:04]:

mean, I think if you look at the history of mountaineering, it is in the well, mountaineering for The United States, it is deeply, deeply rooted in the Pacific Northwest Okay. And Washington. I mean, the the the Whitakers and the Hornbonds of the world, the the the Steve Swenson for, like, ice and rock and mix climbing. I mean, these guys are are legends, and they’re all locals. And so you look for the top guiding companies in the world from Madison Mountaineering to Alpine in a sense international. They’re they’re local here as well. And there’s just an incredible community here. And I think, like, there is few places in the world, that can come close to what the Northwest has to offer when it comes to a diverse, outdoor experience, whether you like rock climbing or skiing or, just kind of trekking and hiking, or you wanna be out on the waterways or go out to the oceans and go surfing.

Andrew Hughes [00:42:07]:

And there’s just, it’s a place that I think breeds many different paths and opportunities to connect with nature, which I think is extremely special. A lot of places and a lot of people that I’ve met come from unique places. I mean, I’m I’m with people from Chicago. I’ve got kind of mountains in Chicago. Like, we have beautiful lakes, but, and and that’s one of the things. And you have, like, you have Colorado people, like, knocking out fourteeners all the time, and they have beautiful rivers as well. But we have the ocean, and we have these waterways as well. And so you start, like, kind of the the more you see, the more you appreciate the the unique spaces that we have here, in Washington state.

Andrew Hughes [00:42:51]:

And I think it is something that, like you talked about earlier, when you live so close to something, sometimes you forget how amazing it is. And I’m no different about that. I mean, that’s why tourists usually see more of a city than the person who lives in the city. But but I I think the Northwest in particular is a such a bountiful place when it comes to being active and being able to connect with, the great outdoors. So I keep coming home because there’s no place like home. So

Scott Cowan [00:43:22]:

I’m gonna tell you that your answer disappoints me. I would have thought you would have said coffee.

Andrew Hughes [00:43:29]:

Yeah. I mean, I I have this is this is, like, my third of these, I think, this morning. Like, my my loving fiance knowing me and what I need in the morning has gotten me, a larger cup over the years. My cup continues to grow. It’s gonna be like an SNL skin eventually where, eventually, it’s gonna be like a bucket sitting in front of me just sitting on on interviews. But, No. I mean, yeah. Coffee is life.

Andrew Hughes [00:43:53]:

Coffee, great music scene, like, all the things that I mean, there’s lots of stuff here that I love. So

Scott Cowan [00:43:59]:

Okay. So you let’s let’s we’re gonna come back. I’ve got a couple more outdoor questions. But let’s just because you said coffee and music, let’s let’s just go there. Who where do you go for coffee? What do you enjoy? What’s your coffee? What’s your go to? Do you have one?

Andrew Hughes [00:44:15]:

I mean, I’m pretty basic. I’m I’m a drip guy. Like, I I have caffeine in it. I’m I’m pretty I’m pretty stoked on it. I mean, we there’s so many great coffee shops, like, even around where I’m at. Like, I mean, Lighthouse Roasteries is just up the way from from my house here. I’m in Fremont right now. We’re we’re moving to Montlake, but, I mean, there’s just there’s fuel in Montlake, which you’ve already gone to, like, multiple times, and, like, there’s one in Longford as well.

Scott Cowan [00:44:41]:

Mhmm.

Andrew Hughes [00:44:42]:

But there’s just countless spots, and I mean, I’m I’m not I’m not I’m not I’m not above, like, popping into Starbucks as well on our dog walk. I mean, our our little Frenchie loves a puppuccino. So Yeah. But Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, Stonewall Cafe is, like, in Fremont for me is, like, a go to and a great meetup and good food. Next door to that, it’s, like, the the Muir Building has a wonderful cafe with all their great like, does I mean, like, I think we’re there’s such a bounty. Like, if you go to any neighborhood, you could spend probably about, I don’t know, two to three weeks of mornings trying new spots of coffee.

Andrew Hughes [00:45:16]:

And and there’s such heritage, like, just the Northwest. Like, we, like, came upon this great roastery from Portland, Proud Mary, which has, like, small batch stuff. I mean, like, I don’t really I’ve never heard of them. Yeah. I mean, I don’t drink a lot, but, like, when like so, like but coffee is, like, my small batch and, like, kind of, like, all across it. Because, again, in the mountains, coffee is one of those small pleasures that, like it’s not great coffee, but, like, like, Vias from Starbucks are literally gold. I’ve traded for food with those little packets up there on Denali. Like, so it’s the old barter system.

Scott Cowan [00:45:50]:

Okay. So that now that opens up a question. So

Andrew Hughes [00:45:53]:

Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:45:53]:

Because like you you said earlier that, you know, ounces become pounds as you gain an elevation. And you’re telling me that summiting Everest isn’t just like, well, we’re gonna do it today, and it’s all day. And if I don’t get my coffee today, well, oh, so so, oh, big deal. I’ll be back tomorrow and go to Starbucks. Yeah. Is it are you literally packing vias up there? Or what what do you okay.

Andrew Hughes [00:46:20]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean so, like, there there’s there’s there’s medical good reasons beyond simply the the morning indulgence. So the higher you go up on Big Mountain, your body conversely tricks you into thinking that you need less water and less food. It’s it’s essentially trying to con like, because you have to burn energy to use all those things. So it’s sending, like like, messages that are trying to conserve your main core organs and and abilities. And so you lose your appetite when you most need it because your body is, like, demanding more energy than ever at high altitude, and you also need more water.

Andrew Hughes [00:46:53]:

But you’re drinking on the same bottle for three weeks straight, and it’s starting to taste funky. And, like, you’re like of all the hydration things, your taste buds change.

Scott Cowan [00:47:03]:

Mhmm.

Andrew Hughes [00:47:04]:

But coffee always tastes good for me. And maybe it’s not for everybody, but, like, it is a great way of actually hydrating yourself because you can kind of, like, also cover up some of the the taste of the the ice you’re melting that might not be that great. And caffeine actually also helps with AMS, in in a it’s not gonna cure your altitude mountain sickness, but it does help alleviate sometimes, the headaches and other things that come from it, because it’s a diuretic, so it’s moving things through your body more. It helps, like, you have to keep that in mind, like, when it comes to hydration, but it actually, like the caffeine, like, kinda can help reduce headaches and stuff like that when you’re on high altitude. So I view it as medicine. I’m pairing up medicine with me.

Scott Cowan [00:47:45]:

So So I would like I would like have it strapped around my body. It would be, like, I my puffy jacket would be full of via packets and not insulation.

Andrew Hughes [00:47:55]:

I mean, it’s self care. Yeah. It’s it’s super important. I mean, like and there’s it was a great, like, company too. I mean, like, Vias are wonderful. People have a wide variety now of kind of, like, those coffee dehydrated packets, and it I I always say that, like, self care isn’t just about how you take care of your body. It’s also how you take care of your mind, and and your kind of emotions. And the mountain is no different when it comes to that.

Andrew Hughes [00:48:18]:

Like, you climb mountains more with your mind. So a small comfort and a small thing that makes you happy, like a like a hot cup of coffee in the morning or in the afternoon or basically just sitting in your tent waiting for that weather window, It’s a way to kind of soothe the soul a little bit and then find some serenity and miss the storms. So you just kind of yeah. Alright. A little bit. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:48:39]:

Well, that’s that’s awesome. So the other thing you mentioned was, you know, our local music.

Andrew Hughes [00:48:44]:

Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:48:44]:

What what do you listen to?

Andrew Hughes [00:48:48]:

I mean

Scott Cowan [00:48:49]:

What’s your what’s your genre of choice?

Andrew Hughes [00:48:51]:

I I I think we’re really, again, fortunate here. Like, for me, like, I grew up with Nirvana and Pearl Jam and, like, Alice in Chains and, like, I was Mhmm. Brundstein. Like, I was, over on the farm. I just kinda didn’t reconcile really that well, but it it kind of it was it was, my parents didn’t understand it, but it didn’t matter. But

Scott Cowan [00:49:13]:

I No no parents understand their kids’ music. I don’t understand my kids’ music.

Andrew Hughes [00:49:16]:

Yeah. Neither do I, to be honest. I don’t have kids yet, and I already know I’m lost going forward. Yeah. I know. Yeah. But for me, like, I, like, I mean, I love, I love a wide range of stuff. We have so many great music venues.

Andrew Hughes [00:49:29]:

Like, Lauren and my first date on our first blind date, I took her to a country concert at the tractor in Ballard. I love the tractor. Yeah. Tractor’s amazing. I love the tractor. Yeah. And so, like, for me, like like, places like that, like, you got the Sunset Tavern just up the way that I’ve seen incredible, like like, bands of all, like, varieties, like, Tupelo. You know, there’s a venue back there, but it’s amazing.

Andrew Hughes [00:49:51]:

And then Mhmm. You kind of got, like, bigger ones, like, from the Crocodile who just redid everything to, like, Showbox, Paramount. But I, generally, I like seeing the smaller venues. I like seeing more new modes. I like seeing them on the way up or the way down. Like, that’s, like, their time to see artists. We’re still, like, really personal and connected. And so but I I mean, I grew up like, I think my first CDs were, like, Garth Brooks then, like, MC Hammer and then, Nirvana, I think, were, like, my first, like, three CDs ever bought from, like, probably Barnes and Noble in in Silverdale or something like that when I couldn’t have enough money.

Andrew Hughes [00:50:25]:

But I I Alright.

Scott Cowan [00:50:27]:

So I’m gonna I’m gonna I’m gonna interrupt you and tell you okay. So I’m older than you, obviously. Yeah. If you look at the two of us, you’re like, okay. Yeah. Scott. So I bought my first CD player in early eighties, right, when they first came out. Right? Like, when it was new tech

Andrew Hughes [00:50:41]:

Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:50:41]:

Well, well, no. I this was, like, a rack series.

Andrew Hughes [00:50:44]:

Oh, the big one. Yeah. I remember that.

Scott Cowan [00:50:45]:

This was, like, home off. So my first three CDs that I bought was, Pink Floyd’s Dark Side of the Moon.

Andrew Hughes [00:50:54]:

Got that on vinyl. That’s fantastic. Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:50:56]:

Yeah. Donald Fagan’s The Nightfly.

Andrew Hughes [00:50:58]:

Oh, okay.

Scott Cowan [00:50:59]:

Which and then Princess Purple Rain.

Andrew Hughes [00:51:02]:

Oh, that’s also classic. Fantastic.

Scott Cowan [00:51:04]:

But those are the three those are my first you’re, like, you know, like it’s always funny when you remember, like, oh, yeah. When I bought my first, you know Yeah.

Andrew Hughes [00:51:12]:

So Yeah. My mental health is definitely, I think, evolved a little bit. But, I mean, Nirvana and Garth Brooks for me remain good. I I still have a country heart, but, like, I mean, I love a wide range of stuff. Like, I mean, KCW has, like and one of them point seven, like, the end are are wonderful. Like, 89.5, like, it’s always been great for, like, kind of I think it’s coming out of Roosevelt or I don’t remember what what school, Franklin. But, like yeah. But that that station has been around for decades, and it was, like, my first exposure to house and electric and stuff like that, which is good when you need to do long training sessions.

Andrew Hughes [00:51:46]:

And then, and then, of course, like, KHP, like, ninety point three is just just a gift to the Northwest. Like, the the the variety of music, like, everything from, like, reggae to new artists to just and everything in between is just it’s amazing. So I think we’re just really fortunate to have so many great radio stations here that give so much exposure and platforms for people. And I’ve had friends from my hometown, like, you know, end up going to the music industry, and and, like, I’ve watched them play at the tractor now or, like, at different venues. And it’s just it’s special to see kind of a, I think, a community in the Northwest that really supports, kind of artists, and gives them a lot of really beautiful unique spaces to kind of, like, show their art.

Scott Cowan [00:52:35]:

Give a shout out. Who is who is your friend that played at the tractor?

Andrew Hughes [00:52:38]:

Oh, Yeah. So Megan Grandel, who, played there years ago, which I think is still playing. I’ve I’ve kind of COVID’s kinda thrown off my my last two years of of artists. And, Lydia Ramsey as well. I’ve seen her seen her play there as well both, from my hometown. So, Yeah. But, Megan’s band is, I think, LaMolo. So she’s actually had stuff featured on, I think, different TV shows even that she’s played at.

Andrew Hughes [00:53:08]:

But, yeah, it’s just they’re they’re incredible, and it’s just amazing to see people that you grew up with kind of realizing their own dreams. That’s their own mountain right there. I mean, that’s a mountain that I never never climb either. Like, my vocal cords have no business singing notes ever.

Scott Cowan [00:53:23]:

No. I So I’m not allowed to sing in the shower.

Andrew Hughes [00:53:25]:

You know? Yeah. Neither am I. Yeah. No. I would love to. I mean, that’s a good Yeah. I have no spells

Scott Cowan [00:53:31]:

there either. I probably I probably could summit Rainier before I could carry a tune. I mean, that’s probably you know? Yeah. But circling back to the mountain component of it, when you’re climbing, you need to my my interpretation is, like, you would need to be in communication with your with your team. Like, you’re you’re not just you’re not walking around with your your noise canceling headphones on and listening to music.

Andrew Hughes [00:53:55]:

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:53:56]:

Are you do you have playlists that you take with you when you’re climbing? And, you know, is there a soundtrack going on? Or

Andrew Hughes [00:54:03]:

Yeah. Yeah. You you kind of, you’re definitely right. I mean, you’re you’re definitely not tuning out and putting headphones on. There there are places where you potentially can do that, say, the track ins or something like that. Mhmm.

Scott Cowan [00:54:15]:

But I’m

Andrew Hughes [00:54:15]:

usually always the one headphone in, one headphone out even when that just because I think it’s I don’t wanna completely disconnect from the place I’m at. Sometimes I I find music to help me connect with places or creates just another way of creating a deeper connection with it. Like, you might go home and that song because you had one ear listening to the world around you and one listening to the song, it becomes part of this greater symphony of memory, which I really love, because those songs then become connected to the memory, and I can, like, listen to them when I’m home. And they remind me of the place and the moment, that I was in. But, yeah, for me, music is so incredibly important when it comes to finding peace and just, like, sitting on the mountain and and part of that process. And, I’m generally not, like, rocking out of the mountain a ton. But, like, rock climbing is different. Like, I mean, like, I I don’t climb do a ton of rock climbing, but, like, kind of heading out, kinda heading to the ski slope when I was younger as well, like like, listening to a bunch of, like, kind of, like, grunge and and getting, like, really excited to go out there and just kind of be up in it.

Andrew Hughes [00:55:26]:

Right. Totally totally different feel. Like, and I think that’s the thing about the mountain itself is depending upon how you’re engaging with them, whether you’re trekking or hiking or doing other things, like, that maybe changes the soundtrack by which you’re gonna pair with it. So

Scott Cowan [00:55:40]:

Okay. Is there a mountain peak, you know, that you haven’t done that you want to? What’s on that? Is there is there okay. So is there a bucket list?

Andrew Hughes [00:55:52]:

Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:55:53]:

Yeah. Wish list.

Andrew Hughes [00:55:53]:

Yeah. We’ll we’ll just tell Lauren that there is a long list, but there’s a

Scott Cowan [00:55:58]:

Okay. I’ll just Lauren Lauren, stop listening. Yeah. We’ll tell you when to start.

Andrew Hughes [00:56:01]:

Away. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. There are tons of that. I mean, like and I definitely 8,000 meter peaks are, I think, a much more challenging thing to do as you become more engaged in family life and and wanting a family Sure. Because you’re gone for two months sometimes doing these things.

Andrew Hughes [00:56:25]:

And that’s just a substantial amount of time. Life itself, work, starting businesses, all has to kind of stop in a lot of ways. So kind of the the transition has been like the I’m hoping maybe one day to to do maybe a couple more 8,000 meter peaks down way down the road. Mhmm. But Mount Kenya in, in Africa is the second highest mountain, but it’s it just looks incredible. And it’s it’s been calling to me. Ahmed de Blom in, in Nepal is a gorgeous 6,000 meter peak that

Scott Cowan [00:57:00]:

Mhmm.

Andrew Hughes [00:57:01]:

It’s just when it’s, like, the first mountain you really see walking into the Himalayas that, like, makes you stop and be like, wow. Like, that is that is so beautiful. And it’s, like, a few weeks. Like and also, like, I think the transition is it’s it’s more, looking at, like, expeditions that are three weeks and less.

Scott Cowan [00:57:21]:

Mhmm.

Andrew Hughes [00:57:22]:

So, there’s a lot of mountains that kind of fit within that world, like Mount Logan, up in Canada, which is the highest mountain in Canada. It’s very similar to Denali and something I would love to do at some point in time. And, yeah, I mean, those I I like to go down and and climb more in, like, New Zealand and other places. And I I kind of view, like, as an opportunity, like, find a country and go and climb mountains. It might not be technical, but just I think it creates, like, a unique experience. I mean, even even my bachelor party, I’m making the guys go down to Mexico and climb the eight highest mountain in North America. So fine. That’s their priority that they’re used to.

Andrew Hughes [00:57:58]:

But,

Scott Cowan [00:57:59]:

Yeah. That’s okay. Wow. Yeah.

Andrew Hughes [00:58:01]:

It’s just outside Mexico City. So I’m, like, giving them five months, but I feel like yeah. It’s it’s the third highest volcano, and it’s a it’s beautiful, though. And and I I think, again, I I think people people it’s something that appreciates over time when you invested that into kind of going and pushing ourselves into it. So, hopefully, they appreciate the the difference. So

Scott Cowan [00:58:25]:

Alright. Next question. You can only climb you’re guaranteed success, and you can only climb one more mountain in your lifetime. This you gotta pick one, and you’re guaranteed success too. So you’re you’re gonna summit it.

Andrew Hughes [00:58:38]:

I’m gonna survive off the summit too back home. Just making sure that

Scott Cowan [00:58:42]:

It it’s a it’s yeah. Yes. It’s the perfect everything is wonderful. And you and you could it could be it could be a repeat. You could say Rainier if you want it. It there’s no wrong answer here.

Andrew Hughes [00:58:54]:

I mean, I I lean towards I lean towards k two because it is something that scares me the most. K. Like and, because of the risk of of, like, dying on that mountain, kinda like Annapurna. But at the same time, I also would wanna say Rainier, because it’s where I really started, and it would feel appropriate to kind of go up there, one last time and kind of bring everything home again.

Scott Cowan [00:59:28]:

Book in the career, if you will.

Andrew Hughes [00:59:30]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:59:31]:

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, I mean, with this we could go on and on and on. There’s so many questions here because it’s not like you just, you know, hey. I’m gonna go climb Everest and, you know, hop on a plane. There’s Yeah. How does you know, without going into great details, but the financial commitment, the the scheduling Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:59:53]:

You know, are you a it sounds like you’re a full time project manager. What do you what do you do for your, quote, unquote, day job?

Andrew Hughes [00:59:59]:

Yeah. I mean, I kinda changed that. I used to be back in I mean, I went to law school, traveled to politics for a while.

Scott Cowan [01:00:08]:

Okay.

Andrew Hughes [01:00:10]:

And that’s kind of what was previously married. There there there was, like, a lot of I I basically checked a lot of boxes I thought that I was supposed to be doing, and, I was further from who I wanted to be and from the happiness that I was looking for. And Okay. Just things kind of all didn’t work out in the best of ways, which I have the most gratitude for. And so I I kind of just realigned things in my life. I was lucky to have just a few rental properties, just, like, multifamily units, and I just figured out a way to maximize kind of as many passive streams of income when I was single, so I could essentially afford. And I always put Everest and Antarctica on the back end because they were so expensive and what started going after the things I could afford, with my my budget. And then, down the road, like, was able to kind of mitigate some of the cost of those things by just having more different streams of I got older, had more opportunities, had made better investments.

Andrew Hughes [01:01:16]:

Mhmm. But it definitely took I mean, I I didn’t hop right into Everest as as the initial out the gate goal. Like, Everest is always on the back end because of because of, really, the cost, and the time commitment of it. But going forward now, it’s, like, I’m launching a a new, like, outdoor gear company that does a product of all my experience in the outdoors. And so, like, working I’ve been working with actually, I started working with just friends who were local designers and engineers in outdoor companies here to help me create prototypes that I could use for my own personal use. And then I realized that people wanted what I was creating. And so now I’m working on kind of there’s just a few initial products, and then we’ll kind of grow it from there, but, hopefully, we’ll launch that. But that’s, again, a way for me to hopefully keep myself in the outdoors but be a different path.

Andrew Hughes [01:02:05]:

And, the company hopefully will create also, like, an access fund that can then create scholarships or different funding for people that, maybe wouldn’t have, the same opportunities or that have socioeconomic barriers to getting in the outdoors because that’s the thing that I want to be the next really big expedition in my life is to kind of pursue that path and and find ways to create, a more diverse outdoors, which is something that I think will it’s not just good in itself, but it’s important for the stewardship of these places is to have many different best communities. And the more people that we can have connected with a real experience, the more they’re gonna care about preserving these places as well. So

Scott Cowan [01:02:49]:

Yeah. It’s easier to care about something if you’ve been exposed to it versus just the, oh, Everest is just a big rock, you know, you know, detachment. What your the the gear line, what what what were you gonna start with? Are you starting with jokingly, you said puffy jackets, but, you know, what’s what’s Yeah.

Andrew Hughes [01:03:10]:

I think before technical launch. The the stuff that’s coming out of the gate will be, much more kind of directed initially at non nearing glacial travel, kind of dealing with pain points in those areas.

Scott Cowan [01:03:26]:

K.

Andrew Hughes [01:03:26]:

Kind of cold weather, expeditions. And then, eventually, we’ll transition more into probably kind of hopefully doing collaborations and dealing with other kind of kit and gear as well. But the the initial thing was, like, we’re focusing on the things that were the most immediate issues that I would face in the mountains, dealing with kind of small details that were that were kind of not being addressed. So Okay. But that the more I climbed, the more I saw those same issues being, dealt with by every climber, whether they were multi EverestSummers or kind of new into mountaineering itself. So, yeah, the company is called Dial Outdoors. So, hopefully, it’ll launch I don’t know. It’s, supply chains are very interesting right now when it comes to getting everything I need.

Andrew Hughes [01:04:15]:

But the hope is that the the first product will be out by maybe, like, late February or so. And then Oh,

Scott Cowan [01:04:22]:

that’s exciting.

Andrew Hughes [01:04:22]:

Like, we have, yeah, getting close. So, hopefully, working with this great group out of Saint Louis, local, like, like, made in The USA, kind of local source kind of guy. So it also helps with supply chain not having to go international right now. But yeah. So it’s it’s a new learning adventure in itself, but it’s it’s fun to find ways to kind of remain in the kind of outdoor realm as well.

Scott Cowan [01:04:49]:

Mhmm. No. That’s that’s that’s that’s great. If people want well, and people shouldn’t if they want people should want To find out more about you, where where can we direct them? Where can we point them for you?

Andrew Hughes [01:05:02]:

I mean, I think the the the the easiest and where I’m most engaged is usually on Instagram. I use it kind of, to share a lot of imagery and also just do a lot of writing, and and, that’s my main source of kind of engagement right now, and I’m trying to expand and and update my website more. But, it’s also usually the easiest for me to do while I’m traveling, kind of using it as a also journaling, sharing, kind of forum. So that’s at Andrew underscore I underscore Hughes, which is, same for most of my other, handles as well. But yeah. And and I and I have some tool to hit me up there and then kind of ask questions about climbing, how to get into it, and I do my best to try to respond to everybody as quickly as possible. But it’s I think it’s I I never really had mentors growing up in the outdoors or people that I could ask questions of. And so I think for anybody who has been given the the gift and the opportunity, the best gift is those that you get to give as well sometimes, and I can give back.

Andrew Hughes [01:06:04]:

And so, hopefully, I invite anybody who has questions about it. I definitely don’t know everything, but I’m I definitely wanna help people try to find their own path, to get out there.

Scott Cowan [01:06:17]:

Well, you certainly I mean, you’ve traveled the globe. It’s not like you’ve just stayed in Washington. You’ve you’ve traveled the you’ve traveled the globe. I I you know, I could go down. You know, I always love to hear the, when I talk to business owners, I says, alright. So what’s this great idea that you had that flopped? Right? You know? Not not not to, like, put them on the spot, but, like, I think we learn from, like, oh, you know? And so I’m sure you have a story or two about an expedition like the Yeah. Oh, we missed the connecting flight, and we were stuck in some little town in, you know, wherever. I mean, I none of this goes I I can’t imagine any of this goes

Andrew Hughes [01:06:59]:

Nothing goes to plan ever. Like, all all you’re trying to do is mitigate the unknown knowing that there’s gonna be so many things. There logistically, when you go into remote places in itself, you just don’t know. I mean, like, that’s that’s sometimes, like, the hardest part of a trip isn’t the climbing. I should try to get to the base of the mountain. So, and this is

Scott Cowan [01:07:23]:

Alright. I’m gonna ask this question. What what I think I think I know the answer. Well, I don’t know. I think you might say this mountain in Indonesia, but what what what was the most difficult mountain to get to the base of for you in your experience?

Andrew Hughes [01:07:36]:

So, I mean, I think it’s it’s a tie, between Antarctica, because it’s just logistically so it’s like the mountains we climb there are some of the most remote in the world. So just to get there is itself one of the most challenging things. And to get off, like, I mean, it’s a massive, like, we were stuck on the mountain for weeks because the weather never it’s all line of sight for flights. And so you just get stuck there, and we end up rationing food and, like, all kinds of things. Like, you just you get to a point where I mean, you you budget and create a buffer, but if the weather, like, bunk like, hunkers down on you and you can’t, like, get out, then you’re just kinda stuck. I mean, Denali is no different. Like, you have line of sight to get on and off the glacier. So, I mean, you have a great community of people that share resources, but, like, those things happen.

Andrew Hughes [01:08:30]:

The other of those is Papua New Guinea because the highest volcano in Oceania is in Papua New Guinea. And the only way that we couldn’t find anybody who really guided there, but we found a single blog post from, like, ten years ago from one person’s one name. And we sent the money. And we were hoping that when we got off the the plane in in Papua New Guinea that the person would be there to pick us up, because it’s Papua New Guinea is definitely a a rough place to travel, especially if you don’t know anyone. And, I mean, there was just trying to get there, like, there was we’re leaving from Australia, and so there was a someone on the like, a a known terrorist was there, and they basically checked on the airport, and we missed our flight. Then we, like, got to Port Moresby and missed our connecting flight. So we had to have, like, an an armed vehicle take us to this, like, armed hotel because there was, like, some kind of, like, threat issue in the city itself. And then we got up there.

Andrew Hughes [01:09:32]:

And, like, I mean, we we don’t speak the I mean, I don’t speak the local language, so you’re lying purely upon people around you. And you’re just, like, putting your trust really into people, which is great, actually. This is part of the whole thing is you put your trust into people that you just met, and and then then walking off into the jungle. So and climbing up in the mountains and hoping you met. It all works out. So, and not knowing where you’re going, just knowing like, relying upon, like, local tribesmen to hopefully get you up there, to show you where the path is and and get you off the mountain. And but it’s such a a rich, rich opportunity to just become vulnerable and trust in people and also just release that grasp that we all have on trying to control every detail of life. So So

Scott Cowan [01:10:18]:

I’m trying to control you right now because I’m freaking out just by you’re telling me the story. I’m like, there’s no way. Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew Hughes [01:10:24]:

Wow. Yeah. But, I mean, then you guys it tells the top of the Mount Gilway and Papua New Guinea. It might be one of the most beautiful mountains, and it wasn’t it wasn’t like an incredibly hard climb, but it was one of the probably the most remote places I’ve ever been. And I I a lot of people don’t climb it because it’s extremely challenging to get out there. And so it’s not on everyone’s radar, but, like, it it felt like going back in time, like, standing up on this, like, mountain top, looking at all these, like, kind of, like, looking like prehistoric valleys that, like, had been untouched. And it’s just it’s just those are the special things that mountains do. They become these vehicles that deliver you to unique experiences and unique relationships that forever become part of who you are and your path.

Scott Cowan [01:11:11]:

One last question.

Andrew Hughes [01:11:13]:

I promise this is the last one

Scott Cowan [01:11:14]:

last question.

Andrew Hughes [01:11:14]:

I’ll be the help.

Scott Cowan [01:11:15]:

Because, you know, how many people are typically in your climbing party? You’re not going by yourself.

Andrew Hughes [01:11:24]:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it it varies. I was really fortunate early on, to, like, gain in a wonderful climbing partner, Roxy Vogel, who she lives in, California right now down in Mammoth. But, like, we met up on a cascade climbing course and, like, kind of both, wanted to climb more. And so we lived in different parts of the country, but we just held each other accountable and would train. And when we could, we would meet up, and so we both have done the seven summits now. Like, we’re both trying to do the seven volcanic summits as well.

Andrew Hughes [01:11:57]:

We’re down to one each now. So for for us, like, we ideally try to climb as many times as we can together, because we just trust each other and know each other on the mountain. But a lot of times too, you’re you’re reaching out and trying to find people that logistically know the mountains and routes and stuff like that to help you kind of mitigate your own, kind of time investment to do that. And, and and so, like, when you show up, sometimes your expedition team will be, generally, they’re lots of people you you’re just meeting for the first time. Oh. And they can be a a range. I mean, if it’s glacier travel, it’s about rope team dynamics, so how many people you should have. If they’re on a rope, usually, we’ll have, like, maybe three to four people out on a rope.

Andrew Hughes [01:12:43]:

K. But, I mean, like, Antarctica or or, like, South Pole expedition, there’s, like, 10 of us, 11 of us, because it’s pretty safe. We just need to pull a sled. The Arctic coming up here, the North Pole, I think our team will be six.

Scott Cowan [01:12:59]:

K.

Andrew Hughes [01:13:00]:

And, I mean, that’s why some people go I mean, like, there’s two expeditions. Essentially, maybe it’s 30 people. 40 people kind of go up via the Polar Explorer system. So

Scott Cowan [01:13:11]:

Mhmm.

Andrew Hughes [01:13:13]:

Yeah. It varies. Like, I think sometimes it’s nice to have a small group, but forever, it’s it’s actually really nice to have sometimes a larger family because you’re with them for two months, and everyone knows family in general. Sometimes you just need different members of your family to hang out with. So Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [01:13:31]:

Yeah. Wow. Okay. So thank you so much for for this. This is I I I have the the greatest gig in the world by getting to talk to people who get to and listen to their stories because it I’m never it’s it’s always fascinating to listen to what people I like I’m never gonna climb a mountain, but it’s fascinating to hear you describe your your passion for this. It’s it’s always great to listen to people when they’re sharing, stuff that’s important to them. And so thank you. You’ve been you’ve been a great guest, and I appreciate that.

Scott Cowan [01:14:07]:

One this is my get out of jail free question I ask

Andrew Hughes [01:14:11]:

at the

Scott Cowan [01:14:11]:

end just to go, what what didn’t I ask you that I should have asked you? You know, let that’s where I kinda cover all my bases and throw it on to the guest and say, hey. What did I miss?

Andrew Hughes [01:14:20]:

I mean, I think we we covered covered a lot. I would just say that I mean, I would ask people to to try to find as many ways to get out there as much as possible, and and help others do the same, to enjoy kind of our natural world and to to do what they can to try to protect these spaces and understand them and understand their history as well, because they’re often linked to histories that preceded our understanding of them with indigenous people that kind of have been a part of those lands and, and to kind of have empathy and, seek greater understanding of how we can keep these places for a few generations as well so my kids can be out there and my grandkids one day.

Scott Cowan [01:15:07]:

Wonderfully stated. Well, Andrew, thank you so much.

Andrew Hughes [01:15:10]:

Thank you. And Yeah.

Scott Cowan [01:15:11]:

I look forward to keep tracking you know, tagging along on Instagram.

Andrew Hughes [01:15:16]:

Yeah. Oh, thanks a lot, Scott. And, anytime you wanna meet up for coffee, you know, in order to find me. So

Scott Cowan [01:15:21]:

Now you’re now you’re talking my language too. Alright. Yeah.

Andrew Hughes [01:15:25]:

Take care. Thank you so much.

Scott Cowan [01:15:27]:

Yeah. Join us next time for another episode of the Exploring Washington State podcast.