Unlock Europe’s Hidden Trails with Cassandra Overby

Cassandra Overby, author of “Home Base Hiking Europe,” shares her journey from a business student to a writer inspired by her extensive travels. Rediscovering travel through hiking and connecting with locals, she found it more fulfilling than traditional sightseeing.

Her European travels were extended thanks to remote work opportunities, showcasing technology’s flexibility. This experience inspired her book on hiking-based European travel, emphasizing safety and navigation using GPX tracks.

She also discusses practical aspects like comfortable footwear and the challenges of hiking with young children, leading to home-based hiking adaptations in Europe.

Cassandra recounts an accidental European tour with her 14-month-old daughter, which sparked the idea for day hikes between Austrian towns and writing a guide for foot exploration enthusiasts. Her family spent three months in Europe hiking and finalizing routes for the book, which was completed over five months due to parenting responsibilities.

The text highlights Austria’s Wachau Valley as a family-friendly destination and promotes walking-based travel as budget-friendly. It also mentions affordable travel options from Seattle to Europe. It offers tips on exploring destinations from a hiker’s perspective, including coffee experiences and enjoying German cuisine, particularly in Bavaria.

Cassandra collaborated with Rick Steves on hiking in Europe, who became her mentor and wrote the foreword for her book. Her book is available in stores and online, with plans for more European hiking guides. They run a website for planning hiking itineraries and offer travel consultations. Cassandra enjoys hiking in Snohomish, Washington, with her family and group, engaging in local activities like mini-golf, and recommending dining spots. She prefers pie over cake and cherishes exploring natural beauty while appreciating familiar places anew.

Cassandra Overby Episode Transcript

Scott Cowan [00:00:04]:

Hello, friends, and welcome to the Exploring Washington State podcast. My name is Scott Cowan, and I’m the host of the show. Each episode, I have a conversation with an interesting guest who is living in or from Washington State. These are casual conversations with real and interesting people. I think you’re gonna like the show, so let’s jump right in with today’s guest. So I am sitting down today with Cassandra Overby, who is the author of Home Base Hiking Europe. Now you might be wondering what on earth does that have to do with Washington state. And I’ll be honest with you.

Scott Cowan [00:00:37]:

When her publicist reached out to me, I asked that question. But Cassandra is Washingtonian. She lives here. She’s one of us. And so today, I’m gonna sit down with her. We’re gonna talk about her latest book. We’re gonna talk about hiking in Europe. Because under morning, we’re gonna talk about the Austrian part of the book a lot because that’s where Mackenzie lives.

Scott Cowan [00:00:57]:

My daughter, she’s part of this group. And so we wanna talk about where she could go hiking home. So, Cassandra, welcome.

Cassandra Overby [00:01:04]:

Thank you so much.

Scott Cowan [00:01:06]:

And give my audience your life story. Okay. You grew up in Washington. Right?

Cassandra Overby [00:01:17]:

Yes. Yeah. So I grew up, in Cedar Woolley, which is a tiny little town towards the north and also Bellingham. And when when it was time to go to college, I said, I will not stay in the State of Washington. And then I got a full ride to UW. And so, I happily stayed in Washington for that and went to college at UW, got a business degree. So, So it’s really funny that I became a writer because it was always just something that I love doing, but it was never something that I intended to do for a profession. So spent about 10 years

Scott Cowan [00:01:51]:

in did you get the full ride in?

Cassandra Overby [00:01:53]:

So there is a government program. I don’t know if you’ve heard of it, and 2 kids out of each legislative district in Washington get full rides each year. I don’t know if they still do it, but when I went to high school so I graduated in 2002, they were doing this program and so, if you had the highest grades and if they considered you the best package, the 2 kids in each legislative district, then you got full tuition scholarship to any of the state schools of your choosing.

Scott Cowan [00:02:23]:

So it was of your choosing? Yeah. That’s cool. Yeah. Alright. That’s impressive. That’s impressive. Okay. So you went to the u.

Scott Cowan [00:02:32]:

I could tease you about that, but I would’ve tease you about any school because, like, I I went to central so I can make fun of everybody, including myself. You you know, you just your your alma mater just lost a very embarrassing game to the Cougars.

Cassandra Overby [00:02:44]:

Yes.

Scott Cowan [00:02:45]:

Sorry. I had to I had to, you you know, anyway. So you didn’t think about being a writer. So what did you do right after college?

Cassandra Overby [00:02:53]:

So right after college well, I think we need to back up just a little bit. So, when I was in college, I made this huge fateful decision to study abroad and I studied in Vienna, Austria. And so, I lived there for 3 months and then I went to Germany and I did a study abroad program in Germany. And during this time, I so fell in love with travel and got bit by the travel bug to the point where I very nearly quit college. I was very close to completely dropping out of the u as a junior and going back to Europe and studying art history. Thank goodness I didn’t, because I I think the way I did it was great. I’m very happy that I stayed with my degree, but that’s when I got bit by the travel bug. So after I graduated, I didn’t do the thing that most people do which is go out and get a job related related to their degree.

Cassandra Overby [00:03:44]:

Instead, I went to travel. And one of the first places that I went was Mississippi and I became a relief worker after hurricane Katrina. And so I was an art therapist down there and, helps people. We helped build new houses for folks that whose houses had been destroyed. And from there, moved to Ohio, North Carolina, and then eventually, Guatemala.

Scott Cowan [00:04:13]:

That’s an interesting path. Alright. See, I thought I was just thinking you ran you went back to you started backpacking Europe because you you you loved it so much. But you you went to Mississippi.

Cassandra Overby [00:04:28]:

Yeah. I went to Mississippi.

Scott Cowan [00:04:29]:

That’s that’s a you went to Mississippi. Alright. So you ended up in Guatemala. What did you think about your time in Guatemala?

Cassandra Overby [00:04:38]:

So Guatemala was actually supposed to be the first stop in a trip around the world that I had planned. So, you know, we talked about how back in college, I had done all this traveling in Europe and I actually ended up going back for a second study abroad experience over there where I worked for, a German company and, so I ended up spending quite a bit of time and then I wanted to see more. So I saved up for this big trip around the world that was supposed to be my biggest travel to date and went down there, spent 3 months as a house mom in an orphanage, and I had, 30 little girls in my care. And the time down there was really amazing except for after 3 months. And after only having spent $1,000 of all this money that I had saved up, I ended up going home. And at first, I really couldn’t describe to myself or explain to anybody else why I was pulling the plug on what was supposed to be my biggest adventure yet. I mean, I was only 3 months in and I had enough money to travel for the way I was going, probably 2 years. But the truth was when I got down to it, that I was just disenchanted with travel.

Cassandra Overby [00:05:54]:

I had done a lot of really great travel and I had hit the point where it just didn’t mean anything anymore to just see things. Like sightseeing didn’t mean anything. And there were long lines, felt like everywhere I went there was bus exhaust, you know, tourists and American pop music, French fries. All of this really international stuff and not international in a good way. Like, international in a way that everybody gets when they’re not really reflecting their own culture. And so, I decided that, that I maybe had traveled myself out and I had a break up with travel. And so, when I got back home, I moved back to Seattle. And from there, I kind of did the thing that everybody was doing when they actually graduated college which was I bought a car, I got an office job and I decided to become very planted, kind of the opposite of how I had been living.

Scott Cowan [00:06:56]:

K. But we know that that’s not where the story ends because you’ve written books on on travel. So you might have taken a break from travel, but we put the relationship on pause, whatever, however you wanna say it. But what brought you back? What what got you going traveling again?

Cassandra Overby [00:07:20]:

Well, I think it’s funny the lessons that the universe have in mind for us. You know, like, that decision to break up with travel, to me, was super embarrassing personally and but it was a huge lesson and and you’ll find, like, it was a pivotal point in my journey as a traveler. So, you know, here I was thinking that I was very planted and I liked my office job. It was actually a pretty good one as far as office jobs go. I was working for Washington Trails Magazine. But then, one day, I met this guy and the On our first date, we walked around Pike Place and he told me that his big dream was to do a grand tour of Europe. And he had never traveled before. He didn’t have a passport and here was someone who didn’t know anything about Europe and I was so excited to be able to share my experiences over there and to help him craft this trip.

Cassandra Overby [00:08:16]:

And so, you know, here I was giving him all this advice and stuff and we ended up going out on a few more dates and then a few more dates. And then, it it came to the point where, I mean, he was supposed to be leaving for Europe. And he paused his trip and then we decided to see where things went between us. And then he finally asked me if I would go with him and I knew this was a make or break the relationship kind of request. Like, if I said, no, I’m just gonna stay here. You know, I’m I’m planted now. I’m done with that, then I probably never would have seen him again because he was gonna go off on this grand tour of Europe and his life would have gone in a totally different direction. But instead, I had a lot of thinking to do and the decision I came to was to go super, super part time with my job and risk everything and go on this grand tour of Europe with him.

Cassandra Overby [00:09:13]:

So our plan was to spend probably around 4 months in Europe and we combined all of our savings and we’re really excited to go. But then when we got there, because I had had this really bad breakup with travel, I needed to do things very differently. I didn’t wanna do things the same way and and burn out again and just feel like I was anywhere in the world. Like, I wanted to feel like I was really somewhere. I wanted to connect with where I was. So we started taking these walks wherever we were because in addition to riding, like, the thing that I’ve always done in my life is hike. I love to hike and I love to just hike, walk, anything. Like, I am happiest if I’m out moving.

Cassandra Overby [00:09:58]:

So we started taking these long walks wherever we were, and pretty soon we started taking longer ones and then multi day walks, and pretty soon we were doing trails that were 5, 6 days long. And it I had this big epiphany that actually, this wasn’t a break from travel. Like, this wasn’t a break from the sightseeing or do anything like that as much as it was a better way to travel. So through these hikes, I connected with locals who were in small towns where they really had a culture and where they were speaking the local language and cooking local food and listening to local music And I got to see some of the most stunning natural beauty out there. It was just a win win.

Scott Cowan [00:10:42]:

K. I wanna pause you because I wanna ask you an impossible question. Okay?

Cassandra Overby [00:10:47]:

Okay.

Scott Cowan [00:10:47]:

I told you I told you before there wasn’t gonna be any hard questions. Kinda I kinda lied, you know, because this question, I admit, I’m prefacing this. This is probably next to impossible to answer, but I’m just I’m genuinely curious if you can. On that trip, on that that that whirlwind not whirlwind, but that long European trip with your now husband. Right?

Cassandra Overby [00:11:10]:

Yes. Now husband.

Scott Cowan [00:11:11]:

I better be saying that correctly. Okay. Alright. What was the single best food that you had on that trip?

Cassandra Overby [00:11:19]:

Okay. Well, actually, I can answer this. There was a lot of good food on that trip. Okay. But there was this moment when we were in the countryside in France. We were somewhere in southern France. I don’t remember the town specifically. But we were in this little hole in the wall restaurant and, looking at the menu, I didn’t know a lot about French food at that point and I ordered jus de boeuf.

Cassandra Overby [00:11:41]:

And it was the most exquisite meal I’ve ever had in my entire life. So it’s a, like, beef cheek and it was a, like, a Right. Slow cooked kind of French stew, and it just blew my blew my mind.

Scott Cowan [00:11:58]:

Okay. And so that was for you. Okay. So that’s see, that’s a really I’m that’s an unfair question of me to ask because it’s very few people could have answered that question as eloquently as you just did. They would have, you know I know if if you asked me the same question, I I’d be stammering all over myself. So that must have been an incredibly memorable, experience for you. So that was alright. That’s awesome.

Scott Cowan [00:12:25]:

So how long did you end up staying in Europe on that first trip?

Cassandra Overby [00:12:29]:

Well, so, you know, our plan had been to stay for about 4 months, and we had saved up enough money for that, at a reasonable pace. And I was the budgeter in our little group, and, and so my husband was also working super part time, and his job was on commission. So he helps companies sell on Amazon. So, this client that he kept while we were traveling ended up just going bonkers. They did better than they had ever done before. And so, we had, like, money rolling in and so we decided to just keep going and going, so we decided to go for month 5, month 6, month 7. And we actually ended up going Mhmm. Traveling for 9 months.

Cassandra Overby [00:13:11]:

A lot of it in Europe, but then we also went to Southeast Asia, spent some time in Thailand. Wow.

Scott Cowan [00:13:17]:

Yeah. That’s that’s actually amazing. And and, you know, just the fact that, you know, the world that we work in now, you can be remote. And whether you’re walking and hiking in Europe or Southeast Asia, you can still be helping your Amazon clients. Or whether you’re sitting in Wenatchee, I can be talking to you today. It’s it’s amazing what technology lets us do.

Cassandra Overby [00:13:38]:

Well and the funny thing is, like, this was before people were really working remotely. And so, for example, you know, to edit Washington Trails Magazine, I would I would be sitting sometimes in the most wild places. Like, I remember one night editing the magazine, sitting in an Irish bar while all the music was going on because it was just as loud in our room because we were staying in a room just above the pub anyways, the same building. And so, you know, I was in the crowd and doing my work and thinking, like, this is this is wild.

Scott Cowan [00:14:10]:

Yeah. That’s that’s very cool. When okay. So on this initial grand journey, this 9 month extreme that’s that’s awesome that you were able to do that. Did you start to think about writing to to to document your your experiences? Or when did the when did the idea for putting this down, you know, quote, unquote pen on paper, when did this happen?

Cassandra Overby [00:14:43]:

So we were in Ireland, and I remember it very specifically. That was when I started writing this book because we decided to rent this big estate in, like, out in no the middle of nowhere for a week and my plan was that I was gonna write and I think it was fall time because it was chilly and my husband’s main job, well, my now husband’s main job, was to build me a fire every morning and keep the fire going all day long so I could sit in front of it and write. And the funny thing is there was no desk in the room that I wanted to write. All we could find was this chest that was up in one of the bedrooms and my husband actually disassembled it and put it together as a desk downstairs, which meant that we had to try to reassemble it, when we left. This was an Airbnb. And so so I got to write for an entire week and I I didn’t wanna document our travels. Like, I wasn’t about sharing our stories of travel. The big compelling thing to me was that I so felt that hiking based travel had solved my travel problem and changed the way that I traveled that I really felt like it could help other people who were having the same issue.

Cassandra Overby [00:16:00]:

People, you know, who were seasoned travelers, who were out there and who were just feeling like it wasn’t really doing anything for them anymore. It wasn’t fulfilling, it wasn’t as enriching as they wanted. So I decided to write the book that I wished that I could have read because when I was trying to do more hiking based travel in Europe, there wasn’t any information on that. Like, luckily, I speak German so I would read a lot of websites in German and figure out German trails to do and I would search all over finding trails but it took a lot of work. And so I wanted to take the guesswork out of that for other people and then also prepare people for, you know, what do you need to pack when you’re going to go hiking in Europe? How do you need to prepare? Like, you know, what do you need in terms of technology or or gear? And then what do you need for travel health insurance? All of that kind of stuff, like the stuff that we were living every day on our big trip.

Scott Cowan [00:16:57]:

Alright. In your opinion, what is a indispensable piece of gear you must have when traveling?

Cassandra Overby [00:17:08]:

So for me, it’s definitely my phone. And not just because it’s a phone and a camera and all of that, but I actually hike with GPX tracks and they’re similar to Google driving directions, but they’re for the trail and they completely take the guesswork out of trying to figure out where you are on a map or trying to find a local map, you know, sometimes that can be a pain. And so, for me, GPX tracks have really revolutionized how I hike and they make me feel a lot safer when I’m hiking in more remote spots because I can see where I am on there and I can see where the trail is And as long as those two points, you know, are one on top of another, I know I’m in the right spot. I can be very confident. And so I highly recommend GPX Treks, and I actually package them with my books now.

Scott Cowan [00:17:56]:

Okay. So let me ask you this, though. You you have your phone and your carrier is, you know, it’s one of 3 probably. It’s Verizon, T Mobile, or AT and T. Right?

Cassandra Overby [00:18:09]:

Right.

Scott Cowan [00:18:10]:

That’s your your your so how easy is it to notify your provider of cell coverage that you’re going because isn’t the I my understanding is the the the cell frequencies that that the bandwidth that they use in Europe is different than what we use here in the States. So how do you do you have another phone that you use when you’re in Europe, or are you able to use an you know, sake of conversations, it’s an iPhone. You know, your trusty iPhone goes with you. How do you how do you handle that what I perceive to be a challenge with tech?

Cassandra Overby [00:18:47]:

That’s a great question. So it has really changed over the years. Actually, that first trip, I would mainly connect to Wi Fi and I would, you know the first trip that we did, I didn’t hike so much with GPX tracks. But as I’ve evolved with hiking in Europe, I’ve added those in quite a bit more. So the second stage was kind of using a local SIM. So I would take my SIM out and put in a German SIM which would give me also, like, a German number and then, you know, it was super cheap to have data and to have a number over there. And then recently, what I’ve switched to is an eSIM, which is super cool. It’s a little tricky the first time that you install 1, but you can install it before you leave on your trip and you can pick either, like, a country or you can pick a regional package.

Cassandra Overby [00:19:36]:

And, because I tend to go for long periods of time, I do something like that. So I don’t really notify my carrier and say, hey. I’m traveling internationally or, you know, deal with the overages. Mhmm. I buy those local SIMs or do the eSIM now. Okay. And it makes it really cheap. Like, I was just in Europe for 3 weeks and to have, all the data that I needed with my eSIM, it was only $20 for the whole 3 weeks.

Cassandra Overby [00:20:05]:

Wow. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:20:06]:

Wow. That’s cheap. Very cheap. Okay. Alright. So that’s your that’s your go to you your phone is your security blanket Right. If you will. Not it’s not you know what I mean? It’s like it lets you you feel comfortable when you can look at the map, and you feel comfortable that you’re in the place you’re expected to be in.

Scott Cowan [00:20:27]:

Okay.

Cassandra Overby [00:20:27]:

And there are a couple other things that I think are hugely essential because you don’t need a whole lot of stuff to be hiking in Europe because, you know, I mean, you can pick a super remote trail, but the truth is the trails just aren’t as remote as they are here in the US. And you don’t have to worry about things like bears, you know. So, it’s not like you’re having to carry bear canisters and all of that stuff around. But my 2 big essentials. 1, comfortable shoes that are waterproof because you never know when you’re gonna be outside on a muddy, wet day. And then a comfortable backpack.

Scott Cowan [00:21:00]:

Mhmm.

Cassandra Overby [00:21:01]:

And if you have those two things, you’re pretty set anywhere you wanna go.

Scott Cowan [00:21:07]:

So when you say comfortable shoes, you’re you’re not and I’m I’m teasing when I say this. You’re not running around the trails in high heels. But what what do you mean by by comfortable shoes? Are you talking like a hiking boot, or are you talking about a a really broken in pair of Nikes? What what do you give me a little bit more specifics.

Cassandra Overby [00:21:27]:

So, as long as it’s waterproof and it has good tread on the bottom, you can kind of go with whatever. Some people really love trail runners because they’re light. I always hike in a low top hiking boot that’s lightweight. Other people really do like the high tops. Like, my husband likes his high top hiking boots. But for me, I like to go with something that’s low profile and then what I do a lot of times too is there’s actually a style of shoe called a European walking shoe and it’s brands like, Eravon, Mephisto, Naturalizer. They have shoes like this and they they’re waterproof and they have good tread on the bottom, but they look more like street tennis shoes. And so, you know, you compare them with a nicer outfit to be able to wear them out in town.

Cassandra Overby [00:22:12]:

So you’re not packing town shoes and trail shoes. It’s kinda nice to just have one.

Scott Cowan [00:22:18]:

Yeah. Save the weight and the space.

Cassandra Overby [00:22:21]:

Yes.

Scott Cowan [00:22:22]:

Got it. Okay. There’s been a change in your life since you started hiking. You got married, so there’s that as a change. But now children. Young children. Yes. I can’t imagine any complexities adding young children to a hike.

Scott Cowan [00:22:46]:

How has that been for you from a logistic standpoint? Are you taking you just so you just said you got back from Europe. You were in Europe for 3 weeks. Were did you was it just you, or did you have a child or children with you?

Cassandra Overby [00:22:58]:

So, actually, this trip was a present to me. I had a big birthday in November, and I told my husband I wanted to do this super challenging trail called Tour du Mont Blanc, which is, you go to Italy, Switzerland, and France as you walk around this big mountain. So it was a treat that we actually didn’t have kids on this trip, but for most of my trips now, I do have kids. And, it doesn’t get complicated simply because we bring them but because when we bring them that means that we have to hike with them on our backs. And so it has become a really good workout and it’s a lot of trying to figure out the logistics of it but it really led to a shift in how I hike in Europe. So, I used to be really big into multi day trips and going out and walking a long trail of, you know, say a week and every night you’re staying at a different, either mountain hut or you’re staying in a different village and it’s really cool because you can see a lot of the countryside that way. But when you have a crib

Scott Cowan [00:23:58]:

k.

Cassandra Overby [00:23:59]:

And diapers and all of the things that kids come with, trying to pack up every night is so difficult and so I have shifted to what I call home based hiking Europe and that is what my new book is on. And so and it actually came about because I wanted a way to explore Europe on foot still and I have these kids and I didn’t want to spend all of this time away from my kids. I I love being on trail in Europe and I wanted to bring my kids into it and so I had to figure out a way to fuse them. So I did kind of on accident. Like, I had, taken my first daughter, June, over to Europe when she was only 14 months old and I led a tour, like, a village to village tour with her on my back and I did the crazy logistics. And after that, I was like, you know what? Like, I need to do this differently. So I picked 2 different Austrian towns. 1 was a mountain village and then the other one was a lake town and I spent a week in each destination doing day hikes from there.

Cassandra Overby [00:25:01]:

And we didn’t switch accommodations, you know, except for just going from the one town to the other town after a week had passed. And it was so much easier and we got to see a different kind of hiking in Europe because we had a lot more village time and we got to know our our village deeper and so that was when I had the epiphany of, oh my goodness, okay, I’m in for another book because, you know, there are a lot of people out there who don’t wanna switch accommodations every night, who need kind of exploring your upon foot light, including me. And so I’m I’m going to write this guide to help other people as well.

Scott Cowan [00:25:39]:

K. So let’s talk about the actual nuts and bolts of writing the book. How did you determine what height to put in? You you we’ve got multiple things here, and and then we’ll, you you know, I’ll probably quiz you on the Austrian part just like I said. But but how did you walk us through how you you kinda gave me the idea of how you came up with the idea. Now how did you pick the various sections for the book?

Cassandra Overby [00:26:08]:

So, I do a lot of armchair traveling when I’m at home and I do a lot of research and I keep checklists of all the places that I wanna go. And so it took me a while to dial down my 10 destinations that I wanted to cover for this book. And once I had the destinations and it was just a lot of research looking at hike forums, reaching out to local hikers in those areas that I’m friends with and getting their opinions and doing everything I could to stay off the beaten track because I don’t wanna drive people to the main spots of Europe. Like, I wanna take them

Scott Cowan [00:26:42]:

Mhmm.

Cassandra Overby [00:26:42]:

Just far enough off track that they still have a really comfortable experience, but that they actually get to feel like sometimes they’re the only visitor around. You know, like, that’s really kitty.

Scott Cowan [00:26:52]:

Right.

Cassandra Overby [00:26:53]:

And so so it’s a lot of talking to people and, I mean, I talk to, like, French hiking groups and I have friends who live in Bavaria and have hiked probably everything in Bavaria and I ask their opinion a lot. And so so I had my, like, final list of hikes, I would say my short list and then I go over to Europe and with this book, we went over for 3 months and we brought the kids and we did it as a family. And then it was going through and hiking everything on my shortlist and then taking it down even more to the heights that would be featured in the book.

Scott Cowan [00:27:31]:

Okay. Got a couple of questions from that. Number 1, at the time that you were doing this, how old were your kids?

Cassandra Overby [00:27:36]:

At the time, my kids were 1 and 3, which was pretty wild. So the 1 year old actually was the easier one.

Scott Cowan [00:27:45]:

And

Cassandra Overby [00:27:45]:

I believe my 3 year old actually just turned 4, so 14. The 1 year old, just rode on my husband’s back and she was very chill about it most of the time. But the 4 year old was a little more complicated. We had gotten her hiking back at home and we live in Snohomish and we have a lot of great trails out by us. And so, we were taking her out on these trails and we kind of trained her up to doing 5 miles by herself of just walking without being carried or anything. And then as soon as we got to Europe and we went to do our first hike, she laid on the asphalt at the trailhead and she refused to move. So that was a a big problem because our schedule is so compressed when we’re over there. Like, we have to be hiking every single day, basically, and we have to hike usually in the mornings and just into the early afternoon because my husband has a job.

Cassandra Overby [00:28:38]:

So he has to log on to his job in the afternoon and run client calls and stuff. So we have this compressed window that we have to fit all of this research into and here, she just wasn’t moving. And so my husband was getting really frustrated and I thought, you know what? Like, I can change this and I’m I’m just gonna take this upon myself and I literally did that. I put her in the backpack that was on my back even though she was £45 and and I had stuff in the backpack. And I decided it was gonna be Trail CrossFit, and I was just gonna look at this as, like, a super killer workout. And so toward the end of our 3 months in Europe, we actually got her to do some walking by herself, and we learned how to motivate her on trail. And it became easier, but, but I tell you what, I came back in the best shape of my life.

Scott Cowan [00:29:35]:

I bet. I bet. So here’s next next impossible question because it’s asking your daughter’s opinion. Which hike do you think your daughter enjoyed the most?

Cassandra Overby [00:29:48]:

Are you there? Oh, can you repeat that? Because you froze for a second.

Scott Cowan [00:29:52]:

Here. Oh, okay. Impossible question. Which hike do you think your daughter enjoyed the most?

Cassandra Overby [00:30:00]:

So I know exactly which one she enjoyed most, and it’s funny to me because she was hiking on the back of a donkey. She really loves hiking on donkeys and so we took her through the French countryside and she rode this horse named or this donkey named, Cannabis. And, we went You know, it was kind of an example to show you don’t have to just hike. Like, there are other ways to hike other than just using your feet. Like, you can use pack mules and there are other ways you can get creative if by chance you have mobility issues or, you know, you just don’t like to walk far. So this was some research into how to do that. And so she was the one who got to ride on the donkey, and that was her favorite day of our entire 3 months.

Scott Cowan [00:30:45]:

Alright. Well, I can kinda see. You know? That’d be kinda fun. Alright. So you you did you compressed all this into 3 months, and you you took your took your notes and your data back, and you sat down. And in an evening, you wrote a book. No. Realistically, how long did it take you to take your notes and put it into the book that you sent over for, you know, the the first draft of it? How long how long did that take you?

Cassandra Overby [00:31:19]:

So I had done all the notes on trail, like we said, and I would try to take notes in the evenings. And my goal had been to research during the day and then do my drafting at night and then I was like, oh, I’m gonna go back home with a pretty much completed book. There’s just gonna be some content, you know, about packing and preparing that I’ll need to do when I get home, but like, no big deal. And then, the girls wouldn’t go to sleep at night and I never got the work time that I needed. So, when I got back, I wrote everything in 5 months. So I had 5 months to put together, like, to clean up my notes, to do all the maps, to clean up all the photos, and to do all of the writing for the bigger sections of the book.

Scott Cowan [00:32:03]:

Yeah. Because the book is laid out. I mean, the the the book is laid out very well. And, I mean, mountaineers every book I’ve seen from mountaineers, they do a really nice job of presenting the the book, you know, the content. But you’ve got your maps, and this is this is laid out really, really nicely. The photographs, did you take did you or your husband take the photographs, or did you, you know, where how did we get these?

Cassandra Overby [00:32:30]:

So in my first book, I took probably 95% of the photos because I really like taking photos. And then in this book, I think it was down to probably about 50% or maybe 60%. Okay. Because I couldn’t concentrate so much on the photos because I had the girls. And so yeah. But still, the majority of them are mine.

Scott Cowan [00:32:54]:

Walk me through I’m never gonna pronounce the name right. The the Austrian tour. What’s the valley name? Please help

Cassandra Overby [00:33:04]:

me. Yeah. It’s called the Wachau Valley. So in English, I mean, it’s spelled with a w. But, yeah, in German, they pronounce it Mhmm. V, Wachau.

Scott Cowan [00:33:15]:

Okay. Wachau. Alright. So let’s use the Wachau. And and so I’m looking at this, and you’ve got you know, here’s a quick thing. It’s, like, it’s in Northeastern Austria. It’s you give the name of the home base. Local language is German.

Scott Cowan [00:33:27]:

Use of English, widely understood and used. I love it. Family friendly, you give it 4 stars. I’d love to know your criteria on that, but we’ll get we’ll we’ll circle to that. And you give it a cost of $33.3 dollar sign is not $3. You say it’s good to go March, October. You got extensive vineyards, farmlands, abbeys, castles, wine, tiny wine producing villages. Okay.

Scott Cowan [00:33:49]:

Two questions. Family friendly, how did you define that for the purposes of this book?

Cassandra Overby [00:33:55]:

So some of that is based off the hikes themselves and how long they are and how much elevation gain they had, and if little legs could do that or if parents carrying littles could do that easily. Then I also looked at what activities were around that kids would actually be interested in. So, in the Waikau Valley, there are these little spots called Heurigas where you can stop for wine along the way. It’s early season wine. And in a lot of those Heurigas, they have playgrounds. And so, the parents can be drinking a glass of wine and eating some really good Austrian comfort food while the kids happily play next to them on the playgrounds. And there are little petting zoos that they can visit. There is Boston train transportation and so it’s easy to get kids around and kids like those methods of transportation.

Cassandra Overby [00:34:45]:

And then, you know, also is cost. So some places like Switzerland are are harder when you’re bringing kids because everything is so expensive. But a place like Dernstein Right. In the Baccau Valley is really reasonably priced, and so you can feel good about bringing a family there and not bring the bank.

Scott Cowan [00:35:03]:

So what do you think and this is you know, once again, I ask you these impossible questions. But, like, for your family, 2 adults, 2 children, what would an average day cost?

Cassandra Overby [00:35:16]:

So well, let’s talk for a second about, like, what our day looks like because that will give you some insight into why it costs, how much it costs. So, you know, we get up in the morning. We fix breakfast usually in the place that we’re staying, unless the place that we’re staying includes breakfast, which I would say happens, like, half the time. It’s just included in the price. So, you know, if Okay. We’re waking up in a spot that doesn’t offer breakfast, then we’ve gone to the store for some yogurt or eggs or different things. Then we’re hiking for several hours. And when we’re hiking, you know, we might stop once, twice, depending on the trail, like, some trails have a lot of opportunities to stop at mountain huts along the way or cool spots where you wanna, you know, get an appetizer or a glass of wine or different things.

Cassandra Overby [00:36:02]:

So we usually eat lunch when we’re on trail. Sometimes we bring it, but most of the time we eat out. And then, for us, like, dinner is usually at our place because we’re gonna try to put our kids down soon. And then, you know, the next day we do it again. And so, there are some special things thrown in there like, we went to this really cool circus and, you know, we find really cool spots to explore, in between our hiking as well. But when you add all of that up, it’s really not that much money. So, you know, the average price of a beer on trail in Europe is around €4. I mean, can you just imagine going and finding, like, a good $4 beer? We’re not talking, like, Coors Light or anything like that.

Cassandra Overby [00:36:43]:

We’re talking, like, a good local cold brew for €4. And then, you know, most meals in Europe are going to be around €10. And so and that’s for really good comfort food. So most of our accommodations end up being around €100 a night, which, I mean, good luck trying to find Okay. A hotel that’s nice in the US for that. Right? Or a bed and breakfast or anything. So I would say on average, we probably spend about a $150 a day, and that’s when we’re, like, kinda living it up. There are days that are also, like, cheaper than that.

Cassandra Overby [00:37:21]:

Okay.

Scott Cowan [00:37:24]:

So, really, in the grand scheme of things, I mean, what would it cost a family of 4 to go to Disneyland for a day? I mean,

Cassandra Overby [00:37:31]:

you know,

Scott Cowan [00:37:31]:

a $100 a person. Yeah.

Cassandra Overby [00:37:33]:

You know? Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:37:33]:

Right. So

Cassandra Overby [00:37:35]:

So, I mean, walking based travel is really affordable because your big activity every day is walking. It’s not buying admission into expensive attractions or, you know, traveling large distances where you’re paying a lot of money. So it’s probably the most affordable way you can travel.

Scott Cowan [00:37:53]:

Right. And airfare, surprisingly, is quite reasonable between Seattle and Frankfurt, Seattle and Paris, Seattle and London. You know? Kenzie flies in and out, and, I I I swear they must fold her up and put her in the the overhead bin because she doesn’t pay very much for tickets. I I don’t know. But it it seems I mean, I seem to pay as much to fly from Seattle to Dallas as she does from, you know she typically flies Frankfurt or Munich here. So you don’t have to spend a lot to get over there as well.

Cassandra Overby [00:38:28]:

Right. And then, especially, you know, once you get over there, then everything is gonna be a lot less expensive. Like, going out to eat, just meal for meal is less expensive, you know, because Europeans don’t tip. You don’t have the added tax on top of everything. Like, it’s already folded in. So there are a lot of ways that you can save money.

Scott Cowan [00:38:49]:

I like how you’ve got here. You’ve got, you know, grocery stores listed. You got recommendations of things to do, definitions of some food.

Cassandra Overby [00:39:00]:

I wanted people to really

Scott Cowan [00:39:01]:

I you’ve got this.

Cassandra Overby [00:39:03]:

Essence of these destinations and then also, you know, see them through a hiker’s lens. So, you know, one of the things I include is an outdoor store that’s in the area. That way, you know, if your trekking poles broke or if you need a backpack because you’ve been on a longer trip and now you’re gonna do some hiking, like, there’s a place to go and get that. And, you know, what food should you really look for on trail? Like, what’s the best of the best? Where should you spend your time and energy? So I wanted to give all of that, but through the hiking lens.

Scott Cowan [00:39:35]:

K. I’m gonna pause you because I have a question I normally ask my guests later in the episode. But today, I’m gonna do it differently because it’s I’m gonna ask you the same question with 2 separate answers. Okay? Okay. So I always ask my guests, where’s a good place to get a cup of coffee near you? So since you’re in Snohomish, that that question will be part 2. But my my first question is, you you mentioned a day trip to Vienna, coffee served by a tuxedo server. Where’s the best place that you’ve had coffee in Europe?

Cassandra Overby [00:40:10]:

Well, the best place that I’ve had coffee in Europe is definitely in Vienna. And, I forget the name of the actual cafe, but it’s in, like, the inner ring in Vienna with the tuxed waiters and all of that. And it was a place that Freud used to go and all of these, you know, deep thinkers would go and they would have discussions every day and some of them, like, some famous painters and stuff would get their mail there. Like, can you imagine being at a coffee shop so much that you have your mail delivered there instead of to your home? And so the coffee shops in Vienna are just so iconic.

Scott Cowan [00:40:51]:

So alright. So Vienna. So now let’s let’s ask that question now. At at home in Snohomish, where’s a great place for coffee?

Cassandra Overby [00:40:58]:

Well, I think there are two possible answers here. One is the obvious. Like, everybody loves looking glass, and that’s where everybody goes, you know, if you’re from out of town and you’re coming and discovering Snohomish for the first time, has a lot of velvet Right. In the interior and it looks really cool and stuff. But there’s another coffee shop just down the road and it’s called Proper Joe. And if you’re a real local, like, that’s where you go because it’s not I mean, they have, like, little groups of old people, you know, talking about books and stuff like that. And it’s a lot less busy, but it’s just I love it. It’s my favorite spot to go.

Scott Cowan [00:41:38]:

No. No. You you do you have to see the the disconnect. Your favorite coffee in Europe served to you by tuxedoed waiters, and your coffee in Snohomish is called Proper Joe. I I really applaud you for the I applaud you for the the the breath of of that appreciation of coffee. So when you order coffee, what’s your what’s your go to coffee drink?

Cassandra Overby [00:42:03]:

I really love either, like, a decaf Americano or I take a decaf latte. And it it was about 5 years ago that I switched from caff like, fully caffeinated to decaf. And, you know, it used to give me jitters sometimes or keep me awake. And so I’m very happy because I I never drank coffee for the caffeine anyways, and it’s for the taste. And so yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:42:27]:

Okay. And you find Proper Joe has a a a a a good tasting decaf?

Cassandra Overby [00:42:33]:

We do.

Scott Cowan [00:42:33]:

Yeah. Okay. Because that’s that’s one of the problems. I mean, I don’t no. I mean, yes, I can make fun of decaf. I mean, that that that’s easy to make fun of decaf. That’s low hanging fruit. But part of the problem with decaf for me is that there’s been a very small number of places that have made the roast of the beans that you can’t tell you can’t tell that it’s I don’t wanna say it’s inferior, but decaf has a a different flavor profile to me.

Cassandra Overby [00:43:07]:

Well and especially

Scott Cowan [00:43:09]:

is lacking.

Cassandra Overby [00:43:09]:

There are some places I won’t name names on big companies that sell coffee, but some places where you get the decaf and it tastes burnt, and it always tastes burnt. And so, yes, I know exactly what you’re saying. Like, the flavor of decaf can go so wrong.

Scott Cowan [00:43:28]:

Yeah. And that’s and I don’t like that. That’s what I so when I when I poo poo decaf, it’s not because of the lack of caffeine. It’s because of the lack of good flavor. Right. Okay. So your your best coffee in Europe is in Vienna. You answered your best on your first trip, you told me about your your your French food.

Scott Cowan [00:43:51]:

On this trip that you used for research for the the home based hiking Europe book, what food did any food stand out on any of these 10 these 10 areas? Is is there one one that rises above for food? You say, yeah. If you’re if you’re into food, go do this one. This is where you should go?

Cassandra Overby [00:44:14]:

Yes. For sure. So I’m a huge fan of German food and German culture and all of that. And, in Bavaria, I think you get some of the very best German food there is and so, there’s one destination in my book called Berchtesgaden National Park and it’s in southern Germany, right next to the border with Austria and the food there is just out of this world. I mean, you can get Wiener Schnitzel, you can get Apfelstrudel and Kaiserschmarn and just all of the really good hearty German dishes and pork knuckles and all of that. And the food is just consistently really, really good, which is which is really nice that it’s, I mean, you’re walking a lot, so you feel like you can eat a lot, which is a great balance.

Scott Cowan [00:45:02]:

Right. Right. You’re you’re you’re burning those calories so you can you can splurge on something without feeling guilty. Yes. Okay. So for somebody who’s thinking about going and doing some walking in Europe, and they’re looking for resources, your book, obviously. But what’s what’s another yeah. I’m looking at the front cover of it right now, and and there’s some beautiful shots on the front cover that just since, you know, make me go, I wish I was in Europe right now.

Scott Cowan [00:45:41]:

What can what could a potential reader expect as the biggest type of takeaway from your book?

Cassandra Overby [00:45:49]:

I think the biggest takeaway from this book is that even if you’re not ready to do a multi day trek in Europe, even if you don’t want to do a multi day trek in Europe, you can get all of the benefits of exploring Europe on foot in an easier package by doing things slightly different and by staying in one town and doing day hikes from there. And I think for me, it was life changing because it meant that I, after becoming a parent, I could still do my passion and be on trail in Europe. And I think there are a lot of people who maybe they’re older, you know, and they can do some activity, but they they can’t go crazy. Well, this kind of travel is actually really accessible because in a lot of places, there are gondolas, you know, that get you up to the good hikes and then you can walk around at the high elevation and then either walk down or take a gondola back down. And so, there’s so many ways to make this more accessible that you really don’t have to be a super athlete and you don’t have to be someone, you know, who’s 25 on a sabbatical. You know, you can be a young family out there doing this together. You can be, you know, 80 and I I meet a lot of older people on trail who are super active and, like, they’re really living their best retirement. And, Europe has enough facilities to actually make that very doable for almost anyone.

Cassandra Overby [00:47:14]:

So so it’s way more accessible than you would ever think, and then here’s how to do it.

Scott Cowan [00:47:22]:

Okay. I’m kinda teasing you with this. Okay? So Okay. Understand. I’m teasing you. And and for the listeners, we’re having a bit of lag in our in our conversation, so it’s I have to be very clear when I say I’m teasing her because she may not see my face to understand I’m tongue in cheek, tongue planted firmly in cheek. There this book has a forward by this guy that I I don’t know. I mean, Rick Steves.

Scott Cowan [00:47:50]:

Who who the heck is Rick Steves? Why’d you get him to write a forward on a travel book in Europe? I mean, how on earth I mean, because he’s okay. First off, one of the things is, you know, Rick Steves’ company is based in Edmonds. I mean, he’s a Washington guy. He’s

Cassandra Overby [00:48:06]:

And he went to New South. He’s a local

Scott Cowan [00:48:10]:

okay. Alright. Anyway, no. Just kidding. No. So the thing is is that, you know, Rick Steves is that that in some ways, I think Rick Steves has made the idea of European travel in our contemporary age, really well known, but with his show and his his his company and all this stuff. And yet, here he is writing a foreword for your book. How do you know Rick?

Cassandra Overby [00:48:41]:

So my publisher sent him my first book, which is called Explore Europe on Foot, and it was actually, like, sitting on his desk in his office, and, I heard this later, and I hadn’t heard anything from him and then I happened to run into him at a Seattle men’s chorus event at Benaroya Hall and I saw him there and we had never met and, and I said, oh, look, there’s Rick Steves and some family friends that I was with said, oh, you’ve got to go introduce yourself. And I thought, no. I don’t wanna do that. Like, how embarrassing. He has no idea who I am. And But I finally, I worked up the courage and I went up to him and I said, Hi, I’m Cassandra Overby. My publisher sent you my book, you know, maybe you saw it and and he looked at me and smiled and said, Oh, yeah, it’s on my desk in my office. And so, you know, he promised that he would give it a look and then he invited me on his radio show to talk about hiking in Europe because he liked the concept.

Cassandra Overby [00:49:40]:

And when we did that first recording for radio, we just found out that we just love talking. I mean, we really bond. We have the very same approach to travel, which is go slightly off the beaten path, you know, and try to find your own spots.

Scott Cowan [00:49:55]:

Right.

Cassandra Overby [00:49:55]:

And he is really good about trying to teach people how to do that, and I do it just in a different way. My way is hiking. And so, you know, I think it was cool because he has seen so much. I mean, if anyone could burn out on travel, you would think it could be Rick Steves. Right? And and so I

Scott Cowan [00:50:11]:

think so.

Cassandra Overby [00:50:12]:

My book was a little was a fresh way for him to see Europe. And so we, you know, he invited me to teach at his travel center and we just kept really enjoying working together. And then he invited me to be his mountain guide for his show and so we filmed an episode for his TV show and it was in the French Alps and I got to fly over there and I got to take him on Tour du Mont Blanc. And so, you know, I got to show him the trail, show him the mountain huts, all of these places that I really love. And, he’s not someone who is naturally outdoorsy, that wasn’t one of his interests. But after seeing Europe, kind of, through this lens, he decided that he wanted to go back and hike it himself, like, the full trail. And so, he’s he’s become a hiker and he likes to go on hikes in Europe which is really cool for me to see because this thing that I’m so excited about and that I’m really passionate about, I get to see it, you know, even in someone who has been everywhere and done everything and and they find it exciting and so that’s really fulfilling. So he When he heard I was writing this book, one, he said, well, you better write that book or I’m gonna write it.

Cassandra Overby [00:51:24]:

And then, you know, and he was someone that I could kind of bounce ideas off of and he’s been a good friend and mentor. And then he offered to write the foreword to it which was so generous and, he’s been a really great supporter and so it’s really nice that, you know, we Washingtonians are kinda sticking together and I’ve I’ve very much appreciated his mentorship.

Scott Cowan [00:51:47]:

Yeah. So when when Mountaineers Press sent me a copy of the book, and I’m like you know, I kinda did the double take. I was like, what? Rick Steves? What? And then, you know, there’s a photo of you and Rick here, and it’s just, you know, very cool. I mean, kudos. You know? So I got a couple of questions. Number 1, the book can be found everywhere. So we you know, this book is easy to find if you’re if you’re interested in books. Local bookstores in Washington State are gonna carry it.

Scott Cowan [00:52:20]:

It’s available online. There’s this little company no one’s ever heard of called Amazon that, you know, probably has it, you know, in dozens of warehouses across the world. But I’m gonna put you on the spot. You you weren’t prepared for this question, and you might not have an answer, and that’s okay. Do you have an idea for another book?

Cassandra Overby [00:52:38]:

Yes. Is

Scott Cowan [00:52:39]:

there another book that’s on the horizon?

Cassandra Overby [00:52:41]:

There are so many books on the horizon. So, yes, my plan is to start next summer, actually, research and writing single country hiking guidebooks for Europe. So it’ll be, like, explore Germany on foot, explore France on foot, titles like that.

Scott Cowan [00:53:00]:

Okay. So that’s a a not an endless series, but it’ll take you a number of years to to crank those out. You know? Okay. That’s very cool. You also have this, amazing website name called explore on foot.com. And so you you offer you you offer the ability do you help people set their itineraries up, and and do you provide some guidance there?

Cassandra Overby [00:53:29]:

I do. So I actually work in a couple different ways. One, I’m often a trail matchmaker for people. So they’ll book my shorter consultation, and then they’ll be able to tell me their interests, their abilities, you know, what language skills they have, kind of I get all the whole package of what they have to offer. And then I get to go and sift through my huge internal database of trails and recommend what I think they would most enjoy in Europe. And so in that way, I get to recommend spots and trails to people based on, you know, what they wanna do and how much they can do. And then if people are ready to book a trip, then they can book, a larger, longer travel consultation. And with that, I help people with their accommodations.

Cassandra Overby [00:54:20]:

I help them find luggage transfer if they wanna do, you know, say a week long trail but they don’t wanna carry all of their stuff on their back. I also help them with transportation and connecting that hiking portion of their trip to maybe a larger trip. And then, also help them go over their gear list and their preparations, kind of anything required to to make this trip happen.

Scott Cowan [00:54:47]:

So kind of a a a hiking concierge, if you will.

Cassandra Overby [00:54:51]:

Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:54:52]:

You’re you’re right. Okay. Awesome. Alright. We’re gonna shift gears to your life in Snohomish. So when you’re not raising children or maybe when you are, what do you what do you what do you guys like? I’m gonna I guess the answer is gonna be you’re gonna go hiking. But what do you guys like to do in in the Snohomish area? What’s what’s fun and exciting for you and the family?

Cassandra Overby [00:55:17]:

Well, we do like to go hiking, and now I have this amazing hiking group that goes out and explores all over around here. And sometimes we have, like, 10 or 12 moms and 25 kids, and we go out on a weekly basis. And then I also like to travel all around Washington because exploring is my favorite thing to do so that’s what we did all summer was go to places like Rainier. But when we are in Snohomish, we’re either super local, meaning, like, we’re hanging out with our chickens and our cats and our neighbors’ cows and goats, or, you know, we’re going out to the valley. We really like to hang out in the valley doing, like, mini golf and, my daughter plays soccer in the valley now. And, there are a lot of really cool spots to go in downtown Snohomish. So we hang out with friends a lot in downtown. Okay.

Scott Cowan [00:56:11]:

Because if you can’t tell, I’ve asked you about food at least 3 times during the show. So the 4th time for food is, where’s a great place to grab lunch in the Snohomish area?

Cassandra Overby [00:56:20]:

Oh, so a really great place to grab lunch is a place called oh my god. I need to look up the new name. Can we pause for a second? Because it had a name change recently.

Scott Cowan [00:56:38]:

Sure. Go ahead.

Cassandra Overby [00:56:39]:

Okay. It used to be Krista’s sandwich board. Okay. So if you’re gonna go out for lunch in Snohomish, my favorite spot is a little place called Heidi’s sandwich board. And there, they have the most amazing soups and the most amazing sandwiches. And they’re, like, really big deli sandwiches. And so you have, like, 5 layers of meat and cheese and and all of the things. But it’s a really great spot.

Scott Cowan [00:57:12]:

So what I’m a put you on this, and you’re gonna you know, what what sandwich are you recommending I try?

Cassandra Overby [00:57:17]:

Oh, you know, I don’t stick with the same sandwich, but probably I

Scott Cowan [00:57:21]:

know. But what are you recommending?

Cassandra Overby [00:57:22]:

One of my favorites for this time of year is the turkey cranberry.

Scott Cowan [00:57:27]:

Okay. So you you know, you’re a trail matchmaker. You gotta match me up with a sandwich now. I gotta get you to kind of, you know, find a good sandwich for me. That that actually sounds quite good. And I didn’t give you any any sort of information. And, you know, if you would have said pumpkin, the connection would have gone bad very quickly, but you didn’t know that, because I’m not a, yeah, I’m not a fan. Not the not the pumpkins on the sandwich necessarily, but, you know, anyway okay.

Scott Cowan [00:57:54]:

Alright. So here’s the question I warned you about. Okay? To set the stage, it’s a very straightforward question. You must answer it, and you must give your reason why.

Cassandra Overby [00:58:08]:

Okay.

Scott Cowan [00:58:09]:

Okay. Are you ready?

Cassandra Overby [00:58:09]:

I’m ready.

Scott Cowan [00:58:12]:

Cake or pie, and why?

Cassandra Overby [00:58:18]:

I’m going to say definitely pie. And

Scott Cowan [00:58:22]:

Okay.

Cassandra Overby [00:58:22]:

I really love cherry pie. It’s one of my favorite things in the world. I also really love apple pie. And I think a lot of times cake can be too dry or it can the frosting can feel, like, icky sweet, like, when they put artificial sweeteners in there, But pie is just going to be naturally sweet and added real sugar. And so, also, little known fact, I once won a pie eating contest by beating out every single person to speed eat an entire blueberry pie.

Scott Cowan [00:58:57]:

How old were you when you did this?

Cassandra Overby [00:58:58]:

I was I think I was 10.

Scott Cowan [00:59:02]:

You were a kid. Okay. And when you say a pie, are we talking a normal sized pie or a you know, was this a We

Cassandra Overby [00:59:09]:

talked a full normal sized pie. And to this day, I do not like blueberry pie because of that experience.

Scott Cowan [00:59:17]:

Well, I can’t blame you. That now was it one of those ones where you couldn’t use your hands that you had to just, like, get your face in the whole thing, or were you allowed utensils on the

Cassandra Overby [00:59:26]:

No utensils.

Scott Cowan [00:59:26]:

Was the whole face in the pie? Oh, jeez. Okay. Kudos to you. That’s you are the first guest to win a pie eating contest. Perfect. That’s okay. So that’s interesting. I mean, by the way, there’s no wrong answers to that question.

Scott Cowan [00:59:44]:

It’s just really interesting to listen to people’s explanations and justifications of their choice. You you said cherry. You said apple. Okay. With or without ice cream?

Cassandra Overby [00:59:57]:

With. I definitely like my pie heated up with ice cream.

Scott Cowan [01:00:03]:

With pie heated with ice cream. Okay. Cool. Alright. The last question for today for you, and then we’ll release you to the wild. Is there something that we should have talked about that we didn’t?

Cassandra Overby [01:00:21]:

I don’t think so. Okay. I think we hit

Scott Cowan [01:00:25]:

Well, Cassandra, thank you for sitting down with me today. You’re the 1st guest at the I don’t know what episode number this is going to be, but it will be over 300. You’re the 1st guest in over 300 episodes that we’ve allowed to talk about Europe and because we’re all about exploring Washington state. Right? Right. Yet, here you are, you know, from a home base in Snohomish in Washington state going out. And the thing that impresses me, and this is the thing I was thinking about, I’ve never been to Europe. Even though my daughter lives there and, you know, when she listens to this, she’ll probably call me and remind me, you’ve never been there. That’s no.

Scott Cowan [01:01:05]:

Just kidding, Kenzie. She doesn’t talk like that. Europe is beautiful. We’ve all seen beautiful stunning photographs from all around Europe, whether it be Italy, England, Sweden, Austria, wherever. Right? There’s beautiful beautiful scenery across that whole area. And you choose to come back here. You choose to stay in Washington state. That is the, to me, the maybe one of the biggest endorsements for our state of any of our guests.

Scott Cowan [01:01:43]:

You go out. You hike around a beautiful part of the world. You get to do these things. You get to meet people from different cultures, experience different different activities that are done in a different way. And yet when the day is over, maybe it’s few days, maybe it’s a few months’ worth of days, but you come back to Washington. So I think that was a perfect reason to have you on the show.

Cassandra Overby [01:02:10]:

Well, you know, I think hiking in Europe has given me a greater appreciation for Washington actually, because, you know, once I started exploring all of these other places in countries like Austria and Slovenia and Germany, I started to get more curious about what we had here. And so it’s something that I’ve been really passionate about

Scott Cowan [01:02:30]:

Mhmm.

Cassandra Overby [01:02:30]:

Teaching my girls too is, you know, it’s not just about big adventures, although we have really amazing scenery and we have really amazing things in Washington. It’s the attitude that you explore with, right? Like, it’s our attitude that we take when we’re gonna go out in Snohomish that we expect that we’re gonna find something cool. Like, we’re gonna not look at this just as the place that we grew up, Right? And, you know, trying to take my girls to Mount Rainier National Park, like, I took them for the first time this summer. And, you know, and things like that can be so transformational. Like, I look at how wherever we are when we’re driving, when we see Mount Rainier now, they look and they say, hey, look. It’s Mount Rainier. And my youngest calls it her mountain, you know, and so, yes, I’m getting to show them these amazing places in Europe, but but I’m getting to also show them these really amazing places in Washington and help them appreciate it because so many people grow up in Washington. And because you’re so used to where you grow up, you don’t really have the drive to explore very much.

Cassandra Overby [01:03:31]:

Right? Like, it’s just where you grew up. But, but I think if you can even take that travel mindset and shift it to have different eyes for where you live, like, people are just they can be amazed by everything we have to offer.

Scott Cowan [01:03:46]:

Right. Okay. Thank you so much for sitting down with me today. This was great. I wish you great success with the book and the all all of your books and the future books. Thank you for being a wonderful guest.

Cassandra Overby [01:04:03]:

Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. I’m very happy I’m the first person to talk about Europe.