Riki Mafune: Japanese American Heritage and the Beat of Seattle’s Music Scene
Meet Riki Mafune, a third-generation Seattleite with a family history deeply intertwined with Japanese American experiences. The conversation delves into Japanese American history, the challenges of the internment camps, the Seattle music scene, and Riki’s personal journey as a musician.
Family Legacy and Internment Camps
Riki shares her family’s poignant story of generational trauma stemming from internment camps during World War II. Her great-grandfather passed away en route to the camps, and her family faced immense challenges upon their return home. Split up and relocated to camps like Camp Harmony (Puyallup Fairgrounds), Tule Lake, and Minidoka. Riki’s family experienced the government’s work release programs created for interned individuals to bolster the war effort. This section sheds light on the impact of Executive Order 9066, signed by President Roosevelt in 1942, leading to the unjust internment of Japanese Americans.
Japanese Cultural Heritage and Resources
Diving into Japanese cultural heritage and resources, Riki shares insightful recommendations. She points to organizations like Densho.org highlighting their invaluable documentation of historical aspects of the camps. Riki also recommends the Japanese Cultural and Community Center of Washington and emphasizes the importance of educational resources to preserve and promote Japanese American history and culture. To further engage with this heritage, walking tours offered by institutions like the Seattle Public Library and the Wing Luke Museum provide immersive experiences for learning about vestiges of Japanese culture in the area.
Cultural Identity and Heritage
Furthermore, the discussion unravels Riki’s experiences of embracing her mixed heritage and her mother’s active role in educating her about both sides of her ethnicity. Riki shares her memories of growing up in the Roosevelt View District area, and the conversation touches on her family’s ties to Japan through a greenhouse and a flower shop. This segment highlights the importance of understanding and celebrating one’s cultural heritage.
Seattle Music Scene and Racial Marginalization
Transitioning to the Seattle music scene, Riki reminisces about her music career, which kick-started with the band Dynette Set. Amid anecdotes about the band’s formation and hard work, the conversation uncovers the challenges Riki and her bandmates faced in a male-dominated rock and roll world. They pushed back against being marginalized and commercialized, refusing to conform to an inauthentic image. This segment delves into the lack of diversity in the Seattle music scene at the time, shedding light on the racial stereotypes and marginalization that women musicians, including Riki, encountered.
Personal Journey and Reflection
Learn more about Riki’s personal journey and gain insight into her early ventures in music and the challenges she encountered. Riki candidly shares her struggles with feeling like an outsider and her experiences of working non-music-related jobs after the Dynette Set era. The segment also touches on her decision to go to college, attending Seattle University and majoring in philosophy. It reflects on her family’s quietness about their internment experiences and her journey of researching and confirming their stories, shedding light on the resilience and perseverance reflected in her career choices.
Photo credit: Ernie Sapiro
Riki Mafune Episode Transcript
Scott Cowan [00:00:04]:
Hello, friends, and welcome to the Exploring Washington State podcast. My name is Scott Cowan, and I’m the host
Scott Cowan [00:00:09]:
of the show. Each episode, I have a conversation with an interesting guest who is living in or from Washington State. These are casual conversations with real and interesting people. I think you’re gonna like the show. So let’s jump right in with today’s guest. I’m sitting here with Ricky Maffone, and, we’ve been having a a conversation about what we’re not gonna talk about and what we’re gonna talk about. But I’m gonna tell you how I know Ricky. So I probably saw Ricky in 1980
Riki Mafune [00:00:39]:
That sounds about right. Yeah.
Scott Cowan [00:00:40]:
With a band called the set. Yeah. I can’t remember where I saw the Dinette set at, but in Seattle. And then the next time I saw Ricky Mafune was probably in 2022 at Christy McWilson’s performance. And, and and Ricky and, Christy, performed a version of the Heat’s I Don’t Like Your Face for me, which was which was really a lot of fun. And I’ve seen you a couple of times since then at other Christy McWilson
Riki Mafune [00:01:16]:
Right.
Scott Cowan [00:01:16]:
Events.
Riki Mafune [00:01:17]:
We did the slow Lois, Loris tour and yeah.
Scott Cowan [00:01:20]:
And during, I think we were down in Tacoma, you and I started talking.
Riki Mafune [00:01:25]:
Right.
Scott Cowan [00:01:25]:
And I don’t know how we got on to the topic but we got on to the topic about the treatment of the Japanese during world war pre and post world war 2.
Riki Mafune [00:01:37]:
Right.
Scott Cowan [00:01:37]:
And I thought it would be an interesting topic to have us chat about today. So Ricky Maffuni is my guest. Ricky, why don’t you fill my listeners in a little bit on your backstory? What have you been doing for the last 40 years? No. Just kidding. What, you know, what what does the audience need to know about you?
Riki Mafune [00:01:57]:
Oh, well, I’m a 3rd generation Seattleite. My father and my paternal grandmother were both born here on the Japanese side, on the paternal side of my dad’s family. My great grandmother was born in Japan, my grandfather was born in Japan. So I am kind of in between Nisei, Ise, and Sansei as far as like what generation I am. So Ise were the first that came over and may or may not have some kind of citizenship here, Nisei were the first that were born here, Isei were the generation after that, So because of this interesting, difference of who was born here, and how long they’ve been here and who wasn’t born here. I’m kind of in between those. Okay. It depends on
Scott Cowan [00:02:51]:
Approximately when did your grandparents come over?
Riki Mafune [00:02:54]:
In the on my my father’s maternal side, they came over around the turn of the century.
Scott Cowan [00:03:00]:
And do you know why they came over? They came over
Riki Mafune [00:03:03]:
for work.
Scott Cowan [00:03:04]:
Okay. And what were they what were they doing?
Riki Mafune [00:03:06]:
Fishing and, working on the railroad.
Scott Cowan [00:03:11]:
Okay.
Riki Mafune [00:03:12]:
So there was actually, more Japanese, coming over. I think people tend to traditionally think of a lot of Chinese coming over for that kind of work, which they did, a lot of Filipinos
Scott Cowan [00:03:24]:
as well.
Riki Mafune [00:03:24]:
Yes. But but there was, at one point, there were more Japanese coming over than any other Asian group on the Pacific Rim.
Scott Cowan [00:03:33]:
Okay.
Riki Mafune [00:03:34]:
Then my, on my dad’s paternal side, they came over first in 1925 and left went back to Japan, and then came back here, a couple years later with my grand father in tow who was just a little baby.
Scott Cowan [00:03:50]:
Alright. So you grew up in the Seattle area?
Riki Mafune [00:03:53]:
I did. I grew up in the University District.
Scott Cowan [00:03:55]:
Your dad, let’s I’m trying to set the whole thing. Sure. So where’d your dad grow up? Where’s his childhood at?
Riki Mafune [00:04:01]:
Well, my dad after the internment camps, they originally were living in South Seattle before the war, before Pearl Harbor, and near Japantown
Scott Cowan [00:04:16]:
Mhmm.
Riki Mafune [00:04:16]:
Which is kind of no more. Although there are some great walking tours you can do through through Wing Luke and Seattle Public Library, get maps and do that. But, when they were interned, my dad’s father decided to stay in Idaho, and they ended up in a small mountain town. So my dad spent his formative years in a one room schoolhouse, teeny little Cowan, right after the war. They weren’t allowed into the town, after sundown. No Indians, no Japanese. I’ll say it nicely. There’s other things they called them and, but then my grandfather opened, it was Boise, it was Cascade, Idaho.
Riki Mafune [00:05:03]:
It was Boise Cascade logging Cowan. So he opened a diner. My dad, grew up slinging hash, having the school principal come over, grab by the ear, reading my grandfather the riot act and dragging my dad off to school.
Scott Cowan [00:05:20]:
Okay. So when did your dad move to to Washington?
Riki Mafune [00:05:25]:
He moved here Wenatchee was 18 because also after the camps, my great grandmother and my 2 great aunts, they had lost their floral business and their greenhouse that they had started in Edmonds, one of the first greenhouses in the area was in Edmonds and it was theirs and they went back to the university district and reopened their flower shop. They were lucky to get it Cowan, and, so my dad was able to come here, stay with them, and start school at the UW.
Scott Cowan [00:05:56]:
See to me, the story would have been more entertaining if you would have said that AT and T was tired of slinging hash, so he came to Seattle. But, well, okay. We can we can inject that as either.
Riki Mafune [00:06:06]:
Okay. Well, he was tired of slinging hash, and he was also tired of, I think, cascade. Although, I think he had romantic ideas of it later on in his
Scott Cowan [00:06:13]:
life. Okay. So he he went to the UW. Mhmm. And then I know you went to the UW. I
Riki Mafune [00:06:18]:
actually went to Seattle U. I had a little bit of story behind that too.
Scott Cowan [00:06:22]:
Oh. Just I thought you why do I think you went to the UW?
Riki Mafune [00:06:26]:
Because I worked at the UW.
Scott Cowan [00:06:28]:
That might be why. Yeah.
Riki Mafune [00:06:28]:
Okay. That’s why. Yeah. Yeah. I worked in public health research. Yeah. I’m sure you did.
Scott Cowan [00:06:33]:
I’m really really nice, folks. Okay. So let’s I mean, you touched on a couple things that we talked about briefly in the comment I’d like to kind of unpack a little bit more. You mentioned the greenhouse and the flower shop.
Riki Mafune [00:06:46]:
Right.
Scott Cowan [00:06:46]:
And you just stated that they were lucky to get it back. Yes. What about that process, if anything, do you know?
Riki Mafune [00:06:54]:
Okay. Let me preface this with, the concept of generational trauma. Some families after they got out of the internment camps just wanted to assimilate. My family was one of them. My great grandmother, who spoke very broken English, made an edict that said it didn’t it didn’t include her, but she made an edict that said, we don’t speak Japanese anymore. And so it was, I think, very important for them to just try and go back as if everything was normal, as if nothing had happened. Lots of other families and lots of other generations deal with it very differently, like I’m much more, activism about it. Not so my family, they didn’t really wanna even talk about it.
Riki Mafune [00:07:58]:
I think there was a lot of shame. This is nothing new. People have talked about this before, but my great grandfather, who started the greenhouse in Edmonds died on the way to the camps, and he was told, that he couldn’t be moved. There were doctors, white doctors, who wrote on on his behalf to the government. They said Scott that. He died on the way. He ended up at Camp Harmony, which is the Puyallup Fairgrounds, and but that’s what they called it then. They called it Camp Harmony.
Riki Mafune [00:08:29]:
They gathered together 1000 and thousands of Japanese Americans from the surrounding area, kept them there, eventually built some barracks, you know, some people were in horse stalls. My grandfather died there. And so there was this incredible trauma that the family was dealing with, and I think so when they got back, they just wanted to Scott be invisible, but under the radar. So when they got the shot back, the the the greenhouse was no more. When they got the flower shop back, it was because the people that had taken it over for them had pretty much run it into the ground, and they only had 7 to 10 days to get ready to go after 9066 was signed. And but my Wenatchee women in my family were smart business people, and, so they got it back. They worked their asses off. They built it back up and owned it for 7 years.
Scott Cowan [00:09:33]:
Let me ask you a couple questions because you you you threw a couple things in there that Sure. I’m gonna guess most of us listening don’t know.
Riki Mafune [00:09:40]:
Okay.
Scott Cowan [00:09:40]:
A 9066 is what? And the Camp Harmony at the Fairgrounds, Approximately to your knowledge, how many people and what years was this?
Riki Mafune [00:09:53]:
There was close to 3,000 people in Camp Harmony.
Scott Cowan [00:09:59]:
Okay.
Riki Mafune [00:10:00]:
That was executive order 9066 was signed by president Roosevelt. So the bombing of Pearl Harbor was in December, December 7th of 41. The executive order was signed in February of 1942, and that’s a day of remembrance for Japanese Americans Cowan. And, but they were given 5, 7, 10 days and only what they could carry is a common phrase for people who know about the internment And so people had to hustle, they had to either sell everything at pennies on the dollar, they had to try to get people that would possibly keep an eye on their property, those were the lucky ones. And They just had to walk away from everything they had and you know, I mean it’s it’s it’s a It’s human nature too, I mean, people knew that that these people were desperate to sell or liquidate anything they possibly could
Scott Cowan [00:11:04]:
Right
Riki Mafune [00:11:04]:
And so a lot of them just got completely screwed, if they got anything at all.
Scott Cowan [00:11:09]:
So basically then, Camp Harmony started being populated, say, March of 42. Right. So this was the
Riki Mafune [00:11:15]:
area that is now we consider it. Well, it is Puyallup Fairgrounds and and the parking the euphemism camp harmony was actually what the government called it. So they gathered, they they’ve put everybody in buses or on the train and took them down there and they had to wait down there for months until the barracks were completed. And most of the people from Camp Harmony went to, Minidoka, which was in Northern California, and Tule Lake. What happened with my family is that my grandma the great grandmother was considered an illegal alien or an alien, not an illegal alien. She was here legally, but she was not a citizen. She was not a naturalized citizen. So even though my great grandfather had just died and she was a matriarch of the family and was not young, but wasn’t really old either, but she was considered like public enemy and so they split the family up and sent her to Tule Lake, which was the highest security camp.
Scott Cowan [00:12:29]:
And where’s Tule Lake?
Riki Mafune [00:12:31]:
Tule Lake’s in, wait a minute. I had that reverse. So Tule Lake is in Northern California Okay. And Minidoka is in Idaho. Okay. I believe.
Scott Cowan [00:12:44]:
So they split the family up.
Riki Mafune [00:12:46]:
So they split the family up and, they worked to get the family back together. But what the deal was, is that Minidoka was a lower security camp and, so the family had to go to
Scott Cowan [00:13:04]:
her. Okay. So they
Riki Mafune [00:13:04]:
had to go to Tule Lake. Okay.
Scott Cowan [00:13:06]:
So your your family then left Camp Harmony and went
Riki Mafune [00:13:10]:
Well, they they went from Camp Harmony, which is a holding camp.
Scott Cowan [00:13:13]:
Right.
Riki Mafune [00:13:15]:
My grandfather, my father, and they went to Minidoka, and my grandmother went to Tule Lake all alone. And they were like, oh, hell no. And so they I don’t know how they did, honestly. I mean, when I said that my family was one of those families that didn’t really want to talk about it, it’s true. So I, like had to kind of pull these little bits of information out of them and kind of grapeviney and kind of like and then confirm it later in my life, like talk to some of them that were willing to talk a little bit more and say, okay, I heard this when I was a kid, is this true? So all of that was confirmed that my grandmother was sent there alone after losing my great grandfather, and they’ve managed to get the family reunited, but they had to be in the highest, martial law Right. Situation.
Scott Cowan [00:14:06]:
And when were they released? What year?
Riki Mafune [00:14:09]:
They were released at different times. My my great aunts who were and seniors in high school at the time were in the camps for a little over a year, and then they were allowed to apply for work release. And my father and who’s, 5 6, 6, 7 at the time, they stayed longer and ended up getting work released as well. I mean, one of the things about the internment was a lot of these people were farmers.
Scott Cowan [00:14:46]:
Mhmm.
Riki Mafune [00:14:47]:
And so or, you know, doing some kind of, like, commerce like that. And so they gather up all these people that do these jobs, and suddenly there’s nobody to do these jobs. And so gee, the government decides, well, let’s first like get as many of them in the military as we Cowan. And then let’s like create work release so that these people can go out and do work for practically nothing. So they left and were picking potatoes in Idaho after a couple years.
Scott Cowan [00:15:18]:
Everything was for the war effort. I mean Oh, right. All hands on deck for the war effort even if we don’t think your hands
Riki Mafune [00:15:23]:
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Even if you’re, you know, I mean, my my dad was born in Seattle, so was my grandmother.
Scott Cowan [00:15:29]:
Right.
Riki Mafune [00:15:30]:
But, you know, let’s go have them pick potatoes.
Scott Cowan [00:15:33]:
So after after the internment camps and after that phase of for the family, and then your dad ended up in Idaho.
Riki Mafune [00:15:42]:
Right. Was
Scott Cowan [00:15:42]:
slinging hash is what you said.
Riki Mafune [00:15:44]:
Right. Raising a wild pony and
Scott Cowan [00:15:47]:
Okay. Yeah. You know?
Riki Mafune [00:15:48]:
Cut his thumb off. Oh. Oh. Anyway Alright. At night chopping wood, that kind of thing, you know, just the typical small town stuff.
Scott Cowan [00:15:57]:
So he went to the University of Washington.
Riki Mafune [00:15:59]:
He did.
Scott Cowan [00:15:59]:
And, what, what did he study at the U?
Riki Mafune [00:16:01]:
He studied sociology. Okay. And he and my mother met. She was going to Seattle U. She was an art student.
Scott Cowan [00:16:11]:
Okay.
Riki Mafune [00:16:12]:
And as things happen sometimes, they were planning on getting married, but they had to get married a little sooner.
Scott Cowan [00:16:22]:
Got it. Okay.
Riki Mafune [00:16:24]:
And so my mom and dad both dropped out of college k. Because my dad needed to work to support the kid that was coming, my older brother.
Scott Cowan [00:16:33]:
Right.
Riki Mafune [00:16:34]:
And, the family was not happy about this union, neither side. Mhmm. It was not done back then. I think my parents were very brave.
Scott Cowan [00:16:44]:
So your father’s Japanese Right. And your mother
Riki Mafune [00:16:47]:
is Irish and Norwegian.
Scott Cowan [00:16:48]:
K.
Riki Mafune [00:16:49]:
Yeah. So my whole life, I’ve had people go, oh, your mom. It’s so nice to have a Japanese mom. And I’m like, no. No. My dad’s Japanese.
Scott Cowan [00:17:01]:
That we talked about this before we get to the point. That is kind of the stereotype though.
Riki Mafune [00:17:05]:
It is. It’s a total stereotype, and it’s a little little on the racist side, to be perfectly honest with you.
Scott Cowan [00:17:11]:
Yes. But the reason and I’ll explain why I I think of it as being accurate Uh-huh. Is I grew up in Tacoma right by well, JBLM, Fort Lewis McChord Air Force Base. So you would see a lot of military men retire in the Lakewood Tacoma area. Right. And a lot of them would have wives from
Riki Mafune [00:17:30]:
Okinawa or
Scott Cowan [00:17:30]:
wherever they served.
Riki Mafune [00:17:32]:
Germany Right.
Scott Cowan [00:17:33]:
You know, the Philippines, Okinawa, Japan, Korea.
Riki Mafune [00:17:36]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Scott Cowan [00:17:36]:
And so you would see a lot of military men Right. With Asian or European wives.
Riki Mafune [00:17:43]:
Right.
Scott Cowan [00:17:43]:
That’s why that’s that’s my filter
Riki Mafune [00:17:48]:
Sure.
Scott Cowan [00:17:48]:
Is but I lived in a military community.
Riki Mafune [00:17:51]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I Cowan see why you can see that.
Scott Cowan [00:17:54]:
See it that way. In Seattle as as a young kid, I might have seen it differently.
Riki Mafune [00:18:00]:
Right.
Scott Cowan [00:18:00]:
So your mom and your dad met. Mhmm. Dropped out of school. Mhmm. Had a kid. Mhmm. Your own brother. Mhmm.
Scott Cowan [00:18:09]:
What did they do for employment?
Riki Mafune [00:18:12]:
My mother got a job as, a secretary at the YMCA on 50th in Brooklyn. Okay. My dad worked for my Norwegian grandfather who had a wooden fishing boat moored at, Fisherman’s Terminal. They built it here. They came from Edmonton. Ed Edmonton? Ed I can’t say it. Edmonton. Wyoming.
Riki Mafune [00:18:43]:
Oh. And they were fisher people. They were fisher people in Norway.
Scott Cowan [00:18:50]:
Right.
Riki Mafune [00:18:51]:
Built a wooden beautiful wooden fishing boat that is actually still in service. She her name is Davancy and sometimes she’s more down at the Museum of History and Industry. And so when my dad was very young, he would go out and go fishing with my my mom’s dad.
Scott Cowan [00:19:11]:
K.
Riki Mafune [00:19:11]:
He took over the fishing business from his dad.
Scott Cowan [00:19:13]:
Okay. And so your parents just made ends meet. Did they go back? Were they ever able to go back and finish the formal No. Okay. So they never?
Riki Mafune [00:19:24]:
Never did. No.
Scott Cowan [00:19:25]:
Alright.
Riki Mafune [00:19:26]:
And we scraped
Scott Cowan [00:19:27]:
by. We
Riki Mafune [00:19:27]:
scraped by. But we my parents owned a 4plex, so they had income coming in from college students
Scott Cowan [00:19:33]:
Okay.
Riki Mafune [00:19:33]:
Of rent and, you know, so they they made it work.
Scott Cowan [00:19:36]:
So then
Riki Mafune [00:19:37]:
We didn’t know we were broke. Right. Well That’s the they
Scott Cowan [00:19:39]:
have the you know, it’s
Riki Mafune [00:19:40]:
kind of parents we were. I mean, I I look back and I go, wow. We really didn’t have much. But growing up, I didn’t feel that way.
Scott Cowan [00:19:46]:
Right. Alright. So then at some point later, you’re born.
Riki Mafune [00:19:50]:
2 years later.
Scott Cowan [00:19:51]:
2 years later. Okay. So you’re graduating.
Riki Mafune [00:19:53]:
Right.
Scott Cowan [00:19:53]:
2 years later. Right. And you grew up in the Roosevelt View District area.
Riki Mafune [00:19:57]:
Totally smack dab in the in district.
Scott Cowan [00:19:59]:
Right. Alright. As a kid Mhmm. Because I’m sitting here across from you. Right. You look you have Asian features.
Riki Mafune [00:20:08]:
Right.
Scott Cowan [00:20:08]:
But I wouldn’t say you look Japanese.
Riki Mafune [00:20:13]:
Ambiguous is is my daughters
Scott Cowan [00:20:24]:
blunt, cruel. Did you fit in when you went to school?
Riki Mafune [00:20:29]:
Well, that’s an interesting question because part of it may not have anything to do with my ethnicity. But, I was kind of a, I was a tomboy.
Scott Cowan [00:20:38]:
Mhmm.
Riki Mafune [00:20:39]:
I was loud.
Scott Cowan [00:20:40]:
K.
Riki Mafune [00:20:41]:
I was also I looked different and my parents were very into the civil rights movement and into voluntary busing before it came mandatory, so I was fussed from 1st grade to the central area
Scott Cowan [00:20:56]:
Okay.
Riki Mafune [00:20:56]:
Which I’m glad I’m glad for the experience now. It was hard back then because I wasn’t black. I wasn’t white. Right. So I know I didn’t feel like I fit in. I got called Chink and Ching Chong and Jap and, you know, and, I got my whole childhood. What are you? Was a question that came up a lot.
Scott Cowan [00:21:17]:
Right. And and I I kinda guess that. Yeah. Just because I’m remembering my childhood.
Riki Mafune [00:21:22]:
Yeah.
Scott Cowan [00:21:22]:
People that didn’t look like the
Riki Mafune [00:21:24]:
Every majority.
Scott Cowan [00:21:25]:
The majority of the of the room we were in.
Riki Mafune [00:21:27]:
Sure.
Scott Cowan [00:21:27]:
Okay. So you already said your family didn’t talk much about this period of the internment and all of that. Right? So as a kid, when did you become aware of this and maybe curious about it?
Riki Mafune [00:21:44]:
It was my mother, my Irish Norwegian mother, who made sure that we knew 1, both sides of our ethnicity, embraced it, celebrated it, and explained it all to us when we were old enough to understand.
Scott Cowan [00:22:07]:
And about how old were you?
Riki Mafune [00:22:09]:
Pretty young. My mom started on stuff like that that pretty young. I’m guessing maybe 5, 6 Scott age, you know, starting Scott. You know,
Scott Cowan [00:22:16]:
we talked
Riki Mafune [00:22:16]:
about it. Before that, I think I always identified more as Japanese
Scott Cowan [00:22:21]:
Okay.
Riki Mafune [00:22:22]:
Because she really wanted that to be part of our home culture. I mean, it already was with my dad. My dad did most of the cooking. My dad is very Japanese. And but as far as, like, a broader sense of what that means, interestingly enough came at my early years for my mother. For my white mother.
Scott Cowan [00:22:48]:
Okay. So you go through school and you ended up at Seattle U.
Riki Mafune [00:22:53]:
Right.
Scott Cowan [00:22:53]:
So you said there was a story there.
Riki Mafune [00:22:56]:
Well, my mom went to CLU as I mentioned earlier. And I this was after I had done the music scene and decided I needed a break. Oh, so
Scott Cowan [00:23:07]:
this was aft so you went to college after music?
Riki Mafune [00:23:10]:
Yeah. I left home when I was 14.
Scott Cowan [00:23:12]:
Okay.
Riki Mafune [00:23:13]:
And I started playing in the clubs when I was 16 17.
Scott Cowan [00:23:17]:
Alright.
Riki Mafune [00:23:18]:
And, did that for a stretch.
Scott Cowan [00:23:22]:
Mhmm.
Riki Mafune [00:23:23]:
Did it for a living, then moved to New York just to spread my wings and get out of here, then moved to LA to check that out too and realized neither of those places are where I wanted to be and I came back here. And decided that I always wanted to go to college.
Scott Cowan [00:23:39]:
Okay.
Riki Mafune [00:23:39]:
It just I either the opportunity wasn’t there when I was, you know, in the seventies, when I was kind of I was a kid on my own, and they didn’t have the support system that they do now to kinda help kids push kids towards what they really want. So I went to Seattle U because of my major and because, it was my mom’s alma mater and because my mom was not a practicing Catholic and no offense to anybody who is, whatever floats your boat So on my mom’s side, there were Catholic and Lutherans on my dad’s side, there were Catholics and Buddhists. And, I was actually kind of attracted to Seattle U because it was a smaller university, and Jesuits are kind of kick ass, rebels. So, and because my my major was philosophy, I was, you know, trying to decide between the UW and and CLU, and I chose CLU.
Scott Cowan [00:24:37]:
Okay. And when did you go to SeattleU? I started
Riki Mafune [00:24:43]:
in 88 and, I graduated 92.
Scott Cowan [00:24:45]:
Okay. So you well, we’re gonna put a pin in this, but I wanna come back to the music thing. So okay. It’s it’s we’re kinda working off of a a a informal list. In formal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Scott Cowan [00:24:57]:
Internal list, but we’re gonna add that to the informal list. Okay.
Riki Mafune [00:24:59]:
I know. I overthink things, as you said. Yes. So We’re friends.
Scott Cowan [00:25:03]:
We’re friends. I could show that right now. I could show her she overheard things before. If she’d listened to the show, she would know. It’s like, no. It’s just gonna be a conversation. Alright. Your mom really tried to help also mentioned your family is very My extended family.
Scott Cowan [00:25:23]:
Also mentioned your family is very
Riki Mafune [00:25:26]:
My extended family.
Scott Cowan [00:25:27]:
Extended family was very
Riki Mafune [00:25:32]:
quiet
Scott Cowan [00:25:33]:
about about things. Yes. And you’ve done a fair amount of research on all of this Yes. Stuff. And you did talk to some of your extended family members eventually and got to kind of confirm whispers in the wind
Riki Mafune [00:25:49]:
And things. Correct.
Scott Cowan [00:25:50]:
Alright. For the audience Scott aware of these quite and I don’t know if you know the answer to these questions. This is questions that come to my brain.
Riki Mafune [00:26:02]:
Okay.
Scott Cowan [00:26:02]:
So you said there was about 3,000 people at Camp Harmony.
Riki Mafune [00:26:05]:
Uh-huh.
Scott Cowan [00:26:06]:
Approximately, how many Japanese in the United States were were interned? Do you know?
Riki Mafune [00:26:13]:
I wanna say oh, you know what?
Scott Cowan [00:26:18]:
To the nearest dozen. No kidding.
Riki Mafune [00:26:23]:
Over a 100,000.
Scott Cowan [00:26:25]:
Right. So it was a substantial number. Yeah. But the majority of them were on the coasts though, the east and the west coast. Correct. Yeah. Okay.
Riki Mafune [00:26:31]:
Mostly west coast because of the Pacific Rim. So really not the east coast. In fact, when they got work released, they would send them to the east coast. Like, my great aunt was sent to Pennsylvania to work at let’s switch board in a hospital.
Scott Cowan [00:26:46]:
Okay. Alright. So as you’ve done research, how has that helped you? But it, you know, you you did not okay. I don’t this it’s a risk of I’m not trying to offend.
Riki Mafune [00:27:04]:
Oh, no.
Scott Cowan [00:27:04]:
I’m But you didn’t go through this personally.
Riki Mafune [00:27:08]:
Right.
Scott Cowan [00:27:09]:
So but there is trauma.
Riki Mafune [00:27:10]:
Yeah. There’s genetic. Yeah.
Scott Cowan [00:27:12]:
So how how has the research helped you work through the emotional feelings of of this?
Riki Mafune [00:27:23]:
I think when I was younger, when I was in my 30s 40s, the research, because that’s my background, that’s what I went into after college was research. I think I was a little Wenatchee from it in a way. It seemed more like I mean, it’s like and I think that that was because I really needed to detach myself from it in order to research it and just kind of understand the facts.
Scott Cowan [00:27:57]:
Mhmm.
Riki Mafune [00:27:58]:
And get a feel for locations that I just I wanted to know what they went through, but I don’t think I was as emotionally attached to it as I became later on in life when my parents, particularly my dad, got Cowan, and I cared for him. And after he died, reflecting back and looking at the person that he was and the difficulties that he had in his life, it became more personal to me. Mhmm. And, it became more a part of my narrative in a way that it hadn’t before.
Scott Cowan [00:28:32]:
K.
Riki Mafune [00:28:33]:
Because I guess I could I could see it. First of all, my dad and I had kind of a rocky relationship at points in our lives, and that was because he had a very difficult time as a child and their lives were so incredibly uprooted and there was so much anger and sadness when I was in college, my dad and I were hanging out, and I looked at him, and I just out of the blue, I said, dad, do you feel like a Japanese? And just immediately, he said, well, if I ever forget, some asshole reminds me, and that was my dad. So then I started this this is kind of an interesting tie in to what you just asked me. I volunteered for densho.org, which is an organization that started in Seattle, to document the historical aspects, all aspects of the camps. Oral narratives, newspapers, things like that. And so, I volunteered with them, indexing newspapers, making cross checking, and making sure that all the names from all these newspapers from different camps were actually took a real emotional toll on me. I did it for months, just and I read I would read these newspapers, and I got to see this, like, particularly, I asked for Tule Lake because my family was there. And I could see this evolution of this community of people who were trying to build, rebuild some semblance of a life behind these barbed wires.
Riki Mafune [00:30:25]:
And what they were allowed and what they weren’t allowed to do. What the rules were. What, how how sometimes food was kind of sparse, and a community from the ground up of people who had varying degrees of resentment of even being there in the first place. I think a lot of them were in shock and were just kind of going through the motions of living I think there were movers and shakers that ended up going out from the camps, different camps that I’m not familiar with too much that went on to do big things about this and get reparation, so yeah. Did I answer that question? Yeah.
Scott Cowan [00:31:10]:
You did. I mean, yes and no, but that’s okay. That’s that’s the type of answers we actually like here because you mentioned Densho. What elaborate
Riki Mafune [00:31:26]:
things, but but I
Scott Cowan [00:31:27]:
perused it, and it appears that there’s a wealth of information Cowan it.
Riki Mafune [00:31:31]:
Densho is a great resource if you’re interested in learning about Japanese American, internment and, Japanese American and, internment and people. Like I said, some of the most moving things for me are the oral narratives of horror historical oral narratives of people who were actually in the camp that were older than my dad.
Scott Cowan [00:31:49]:
Mhmm.
Riki Mafune [00:31:51]:
But they also give great historical information for teachers. They give lesson plans. It’s it’s a pretty extensive
Scott Cowan [00:32:11]:
Pork Field Productions. That’s I was like
Riki Mafune [00:32:15]:
How can you not like
Scott Cowan [00:32:17]:
What are what is the what’s Porkfield Productions?
Riki Mafune [00:32:20]:
Okay. Porkfield Productions is an Asian American Wenatchee group, And they do, Sarah Porklawb, hence the name, is a playwright, an actor, a, just an amazing person. She’s taking her, Dragon series all over the country. She is a mover and a shaker in the theater in an Asian American, theater, you know, arena, not just here, but she’s becoming national. And so they do a lot of great work as far as Asian American Wenatchee. And my daughter’s an actor. So, she’s tight with Sarah and and they’re just yeah. I just think they’re amazing.
Riki Mafune [00:33:16]:
Something that’s really growing in the city actually is a Asian American theater.
Scott Cowan [00:33:20]:
You also have a thing here for Japanese Culture and Community Center of Washington, which is is that the jccw.org?
Riki Mafune [00:33:28]:
Yeah. Yeah. And that is also a really good resource for Scott not just, I mean, it’s it’s more of a resource for, things to do Okay. Around Seattle.
Scott Cowan [00:33:46]:
Are there there there are tours still of you said Japantown? Japantown.
Riki Mafune [00:33:51]:
What was really interesting, Seattle Public Library did a program, I think it was this summer, and they promoted the walking tour Mhmm. At the walking tour at the downtown library with a exhibit and then, you know, gave people maps. Wing Luke does that as well, but the program at the library was great because it kind of brought a a broader, yes. You there’s there’s vestiges of Japan Cowan left in what we used to call Chinatown International District.
Scott Cowan [00:34:38]:
Right.
Riki Mafune [00:34:39]:
And, you can do this walking tour, and it’s really, really interesting.
Scott Cowan [00:34:44]:
Yep.
Riki Mafune [00:34:45]:
It’s it’s seasonal, kind of. I mean
Scott Cowan [00:34:48]:
If I remember correctly, there’s also a walking tour over on Bainbridge Island.
Riki Mafune [00:34:53]:
Right. And I’m not as familiar with that. I know that there were so many Japanese farmers
Scott Cowan [00:35:00]:
Right.
Riki Mafune [00:35:00]:
On Van Vert Island.
Scott Cowan [00:35:01]:
Right.
Riki Mafune [00:35:02]:
And as a story pops into my head. I remember somebody in my family telling me, or maybe I read it, that they were treated really pretty roughly because there were rumors that they were planting strawberries with arrows that other them, but I mean come on, give me a break.
Scott Cowan [00:35:36]:
No. I just know that I interviewed interviewed Bainbridge Distilling Mhmm. And they he mentioned that there’s there was this large population of Japanese. Yeah. And and there’s something special that I can’t remember. I should have researched again before I talked to you. But, but one of the things that this Bainbridge Distilling does that I thought was interesting is is kind of a homage to not acknowledgement here. They age one of their whiskeys in barrels made from Japanese wood.
Scott Cowan [00:36:09]:
Oh my gosh. And he actually goes to Japan and buys the wood in bulk and has it shipped back because you can’t get it here. And but the stuff’s like $500 a bottle.
Riki Mafune [00:36:17]:
Well, not I was gonna say nod to him because Japanese whiskey is really good.
Scott Cowan [00:36:21]:
Right. But it’s like $500
Riki Mafune [00:36:22]:
a bottle. Expensive. I know. The good stuff.
Scott Cowan [00:36:24]:
Expensive. The good stuff. Expensive. Anyway but it was just, but it’s a it’s kind of a nod to Bainbridge Island’s Right. Japanese population. Yeah. That was and and how prevalent they were and and important they
Riki Mafune [00:36:38]:
Absolutely. Okay.
Scott Cowan [00:36:40]:
So for people to find out more, I do feel like our area has resources. What other resources have you found that are valuable and important?
Riki Mafune [00:36:57]:
Resources for history or resources for things to do or both?
Scott Cowan [00:37:01]:
Yes. For both. Let’s go with history.
Riki Mafune [00:37:03]:
You know, Densho is I think the the place to go.
Scott Cowan [00:37:06]:
Okay.
Riki Mafune [00:37:09]:
They really have a huge collection, a database of so many different aspects of the Japanese American internment, and it continues to grow. You know, and and it’s a handful of people working really hard to make this this resource Scott just local but national. So that would historically, I would say that for things to do Japanese cultural and community center of Washington
Scott Cowan [00:37:43]:
which one?
Riki Mafune [00:37:46]:
Which is that’s that’s the the the j ccw.com. I’ll put
Scott Cowan [00:37:49]:
a link in the show. Yeah.
Riki Mafune [00:37:50]:
Yeah. Yeah. I figured you would.
Scott Cowan [00:37:52]:
You’ve got Edmonds High School here. Uh-huh. Is that and and we also have greenhouse, so I’m I’m wondering if I was is that the is that referencing back to your your
Riki Mafune [00:38:01]:
Yeah. Yeah. I was just kind of, off the cuff making
Scott Cowan [00:38:04]:
some We have a book.
Riki Mafune [00:38:06]:
Right. No. No. Boy. So right now, the Seattle Public Library is celebrating, the 100 year, of John Okada who wrote a novel called No No Boy, which was really controversial at the time because there were loyalty questions that they would ask you when you were in the camps and the loyalty he wrote, it’s a fictional, it’s a it’s a fiction, but it’s based on, quite a few young men who felt that the Do you swear your allegiance? I’m these are paraphrasing because I don’t have them memorized. Do you swear your allegiance to the United States, the United States only? And do you swear that you will protect the United States from any foreign threats, yada yada yada. Mhmm. Well, these Japanese young Japanese American men mostly that were asked this, felt that they should not have to say yes because they’re American citizens.
Scott Cowan [00:39:17]:
Mhmm.
Riki Mafune [00:39:17]:
Like, they’re already American citizens. Why are you asking me this?
Scott Cowan [00:39:21]:
Right.
Riki Mafune [00:39:22]:
So out of out of protest, they would say no. And those two questions, they would say no, and then they would say no. And that’s what the base book is based on.
Scott Cowan [00:39:32]:
Okay.
Riki Mafune [00:39:32]:
Seattle Public Library is doing a 3 part series celebrating that Cowan, and, there’s one more coming up in November. I can’t remember the exact date. I’m planning yeah, and the person. You also mentioned Wing Luke walking tour, yeah. And the person.
Scott Cowan [00:39:55]:
You also mentioned Wing Luke walking tour in the Bonsai Museum. What’s what’s going on there?
Riki Mafune [00:39:59]:
So Wing Luke, has been there for a very long time. They moved locations, I don’t know, maybe 10 years ago, and and they are a great resource for just immigration of Asians into the Pacific Northwest area. So they have exhibits about Filipino, immigrants, Japanese, Chinese, ever a little bit in between, you know, Taiwan, Taiwanese. And I wanted to mention them because they were recently, the wing Luke was attacked. Somebody was it was race related very clearly. The person who was arrested made it very clear that that’s what it was about. Mhmm. There were people inside who were having a meeting, and he I think it think it was a sledgehammer or maybe a crowbar.
Riki Mafune [00:40:53]:
I don’t know. But he came and busted the windows and was very, you know, violent and clear that he was wanted to do some harm. Luckily, he didn’t do any more harm than property, but the wing Luke has been there for so long, and they provide, I think, a really important service for Chinatown International District, so and they need help right now.
Scott Cowan [00:41:23]:
Okay.
Riki Mafune [00:41:24]:
They are a nonprofit. They’ve served this community for decades decades decades, and to be, you know, targeted like that as a museum.
Scott Cowan [00:41:38]:
Right.
Riki Mafune [00:41:39]:
I just feel really strongly that I needed to give him a shout out.
Scott Cowan [00:41:45]:
Alright. The bonsai?
Riki Mafune [00:41:47]:
So the bonsai Pacific bonsai museum is, my understanding, one of only 2 bonsai museums in the United States. And bonsai bonsai, it is in Federal Way. They have bonsai that are over a 100 years old. They teach classes. They have bonsai that came actually from the camps that are still, being tended and survived, and they rotate the exhibits and depending on what time of year it is, but you can go there, you can look at all the bonsai, you can see how old they are, are. You can look at who originally cultivated them. Like I said, take classes. A lot of people don’t know about it.
Riki Mafune [00:42:33]:
My daughter and I did 2 of their galas. We performed there as musical, guests. We did it last year, and we did it again this year.
Scott Cowan [00:42:43]:
Okay.
Riki Mafune [00:42:43]:
And, so I’m just surprised that people, maybe I shouldn’t be surprised, don’t know more about this. It’s like people know about the Japanese tea garden in the arboretum, kind of, right? Like, you know about that, right?
Scott Cowan [00:43:01]:
Yep.
Riki Mafune [00:43:03]:
And but there’s this other amazing place to go for a half a day or whatever. It’s a little bit of a drive, but it, you know, culturally, it’s really cool. Bonsai was not just Japanese. It was from different Asian cultures. So I wanted to mention that as well. It’s a cool place.
Scott Cowan [00:43:22]:
Alright. Well, you and your daughter performed musically, so we’re gonna that’s gonna be the shifting of the gears here
Riki Mafune [00:43:26]:
Okay.
Scott Cowan [00:43:26]:
To go back to in
Riki Mafune [00:43:27]:
your
Scott Cowan [00:43:28]:
Segue. Grandini, the Klutch. You mentioned earlier you left home as a teenager and you started becoming made your living as a musician.
Riki Mafune [00:43:38]:
Right.
Scott Cowan [00:43:38]:
So when I saw you perform with the dinette set, you were probably underage. Yes. I did not know that. Yes. Everyone looked older to me than they I always have this this thing that musicians were always older. Yeah. Even, you know, even if it was like a 5 year old on the stage, somehow they were older than me.
Riki Mafune [00:43:56]:
Well, and there’s something about, like, you know, when you walk into a club and you’re one of the performers and it’s like, okay. Like, people kinda Right. But I I did get busted at it at the rainbow. The rainbow found out how old I was Uh-huh. And made me stay in the back room unless we’re, unless I was actually literally on stage. I
Scott Cowan [00:44:14]:
was gonna go there and to see how your performance is. We’re gonna we’re gonna shift gears to that period of Seattle history now.
Riki Mafune [00:44:20]:
Okay.
Scott Cowan [00:44:20]:
And and kinda how it interacts with interfaces with you. What was the first band you were a part of?
Riki Mafune [00:44:31]:
The first band I was part of was more of like a. It never really was a band, but it was called it was called Black Lace.
Scott Cowan [00:44:41]:
K.
Riki Mafune [00:44:41]:
And I played guitar.
Scott Cowan [00:44:43]:
Okay.
Riki Mafune [00:44:43]:
And it was all I I wanna say women, but really we were girls. I mean, we were teenagers. Okay. And we would rehearse, but it was very garage y and we never had a show.
Scott Cowan [00:44:55]:
Okay. Rephrasing my question. What was the first band that you had a that you performed a show with?
Riki Mafune [00:45:03]:
It would have been the dinette set.
Scott Cowan [00:45:05]:
The dinette set. Alright. How did the dinette set come about?
Riki Mafune [00:45:13]:
Well, it it it’s it was it was talked about in the basement of Tower Records between, Leslie Swanson and Bill Larson. Leslie and Bill were both really into girl group
Scott Cowan [00:45:31]:
k.
Riki Mafune [00:45:31]:
Music Cowan just 60s music Cowan 50s 60s music in general. And I think it was Leslie’s dream to do kind of a girl group for Matt. So it just was just one of those symbiotic organic things. So they talked about it, she said I’d love to do this. I was hanging out with, like, the girls and the cowboys scene. My boyfriend was in the girls, Brent Pennington.
Scott Cowan [00:46:08]:
K.
Riki Mafune [00:46:09]:
And, so it was like, well, I know somebody who’s sings and well, so and so’s husband plays the bass, Scott McCoy
Scott Cowan [00:46:20]:
Mhmm.
Riki Mafune [00:46:21]:
And his wife sings, and it just happened. And suddenly, we have a 7 piece oh, and Dave Drury, I mean, you know, he’s playing drums for 50 bazillion bands, but let’s ask him if he wants to do this because he he and Bill were really good friends and he loved the same kind of music.
Scott Cowan [00:46:39]:
I don’t know where I heard, read, saw this Scott. But so I’m gonna say this and you’re gonna you’re gonna fact check me. Okay? Alright. Okay. But you’re involved in the story.
Riki Mafune [00:46:53]:
Alright. I better be.
Scott Cowan [00:46:55]:
Yeah. So you and and the other singer, with Christy McWilson or Christy
Riki Mafune [00:47:02]:
Right.
Scott Cowan [00:47:03]:
Wasn’t in the band.
Riki Mafune [00:47:04]:
Not right.
Scott Cowan [00:47:05]:
Not yet. And you ended up going to her house. Oh, wow. Am I so far?
Riki Mafune [00:47:12]:
Well, I’m having a flashback. That’s why I’m laughing.
Scott Cowan [00:47:14]:
Okay. And somehow, what I remember so I didn’t know you, didn’t know Christy then. This is 40 years ago.
Riki Mafune [00:47:24]:
Plus.
Scott Cowan [00:47:25]:
Yeah. I guess you went in to the house, and Christy was auditioning by singing into a wine bottle of Connie Francis songs. Right.
Riki Mafune [00:47:37]:
Right. I think she did. It’s my party.
Scott Cowan [00:47:39]:
That’s hysterical to me. Well, and
Riki Mafune [00:47:41]:
it’s funny too because she says she walked, and we were waiting for her. We were sitting on her porch. It was a, like, nice sunny day. And Leslie and I were eating a packet of Starburst.
Scott Cowan [00:47:53]:
K.
Riki Mafune [00:47:54]:
And Christy said later on, upon reflection, she said she walked up and she just thought, oh my god. She thought we were chewing bubblegum, first of all, which is neither here nor there. But, you know, she thought we’re chewing bubblegum. And she goes, here are these 2, you know, chicks, like, sitting on my porch chewing bubblegum. What is this? And then she goes inside and sinks into a wine bottle. So
Scott Cowan [00:48:17]:
So the this story is
Riki Mafune [00:48:18]:
true. It’s true.
Scott Cowan [00:48:19]:
I don’t know where I read it, saw it, or, you know, and I just I the the my visual of Chris McWilson singing into a wine bottle of Connie Francis song seems both highly believable and highly surreal simultaneously to me.
Riki Mafune [00:48:37]:
Well, you know, that’s Christy. That’s
Scott Cowan [00:48:42]:
Okay. So the band gets together.
Riki Mafune [00:48:45]:
Yeah.
Scott Cowan [00:48:46]:
And for a while, the band was performing I mean, you were working.
Riki Mafune [00:48:52]:
We were working our asses off.
Scott Cowan [00:48:54]:
You you were you were working 6 nights a week,
Riki Mafune [00:48:57]:
if sometimes 7? Oh, yeah. And booked constantly.
Scott Cowan [00:49:00]:
Right. And you were booked a lot of times, you know, back then the sales scene be more than 1 band, you know, the Heat.
Riki Mafune [00:49:06]:
Sure. And and clubs used to do runs more back then. You’d have long runs.
Scott Cowan [00:49:10]:
Right. You know,
Riki Mafune [00:49:10]:
you wouldn’t necessarily be a band, but you’d be booked for, like, 4 or 5 nights in a row, and then you’d have a different gig on a Sunday or, you know, you have a festival to do or whatever. Yeah.
Scott Cowan [00:49:19]:
And so you were one of those bands in the circuit that we’re working.
Riki Mafune [00:49:22]:
Right. Constantly. All the time.
Scott Cowan [00:49:24]:
Right. So it had its run. You know? Mhmm. How long how long
Riki Mafune [00:49:31]:
Oh gosh. If memory serves, close to 3 years.
Scott Cowan [00:49:37]:
Wow. Okay.
Riki Mafune [00:49:39]:
And we we went out we went out when we were still really pulling in
Scott Cowan [00:49:46]:
crowds. Right. So I ask all musical guests the same question. I’m probably gonna ask you this question more than once here, Tilly. So I I’m phrasing this you have to answer the question or I want you to answer the question. She’s giving me a dirty look. I’m saying you have to.
Riki Mafune [00:50:01]:
I raised my eyebrows. You have not seen my dirty look.
Scott Cowan [00:50:06]:
I want you to answer the question in reference to the time that you were with the Dinette set.
Riki Mafune [00:50:10]:
Alright.
Scott Cowan [00:50:11]:
Where was, as a performer, the your favorite place to play when you were with the Dinette set? What venue was like the venue you really liked? For whatever reason.
Riki Mafune [00:50:21]:
The one that busted me, the rainbow.
Scott Cowan [00:50:23]:
You like the rainbow?
Riki Mafune [00:50:24]:
I like the rainbow because I like the atmosphere. I liked the looseness of the crowd. I liked the I just I during the dinette setter era Yeah.
Scott Cowan [00:50:37]:
Where did you like to see music being performed at? Right. During the Donetside era Yeah. Where did you like to see music being performed at?
Riki Mafune [00:50:47]:
Oh, I preferred going to, like, larger venues like the Moore or, the Paramount, you know, before they it got gentrified and, I mean, when I went to shows, I usually wanted to I grew up in the era where you could this was kind of a thing of the past. Well, it was when I was gigging, but, the, right catch a rising star concert series.
Scott Cowan [00:51:09]:
I went to a lot of those.
Riki Mafune [00:51:10]:
Oh, man. A buck? Mhmm. God.
Scott Cowan [00:51:13]:
So who’d you see?
Riki Mafune [00:51:14]:
Oh my gosh. The Ramones, I think Blondie. Yep. God, there’s so many. I can’t even it’s like I I can’t even remember. There’s just
Scott Cowan [00:51:26]:
So the 2 the 2 that I went to that really stick in my mind that were both very, very cool shows from Buck, I saw the Boomtown Rats.
Riki Mafune [00:51:34]:
Okay.
Scott Cowan [00:51:34]:
And that was a really entertaining because they didn’t have a lot of music. Right. Remember they kinda had a which is probably fluorescent tubes with, cellophane over them to change the colors. Kinda like a crisp, Tic Tac Toe board behind them. And, you know okay. But then well, no. It it just the the the audience was big. Oh.
Scott Cowan [00:52:09]:
They just weren’t that stage was too big for the band.
Riki Mafune [00:52:13]:
I get what you’re saying. Okay. They weren’t ready for that size venue.
Scott Cowan [00:52:16]:
They yeah. They that was just they should maybe play the more than that too. Sure. Then the other one that was left just this imprint was we went and saw Angel City.
Riki Mafune [00:52:29]:
Oh, wow.
Scott Cowan [00:52:30]:
And, you know, Australian band Yeah. One album, you know, literally. But but this is weird. But the guitar player came out, walked out on stage, stood, finished the show, left. He never moved. I mean, the guy never moved. He planted his feet shoulder width apart, never moved. So he was like a robot.
Scott Cowan [00:53:00]:
Right. Was there was no there was no movement. And those two shows and I think I saw I know I saw Blondie. I didn’t see The Ramones. I think I saw Elvis Costello there. Yes.
Riki Mafune [00:53:11]:
Yeah. And
Scott Cowan [00:53:12]:
I’ve seen Elvis Costello so many times that I Yeah.
Riki Mafune [00:53:14]:
I forgot about that. But yeah. Because I have too. But, yeah, Elvis Costello for sure. Did did did did Patty Smith do one of those?
Scott Cowan [00:53:22]:
Might have. I did not see that one. I but like you said, before the par that was kind of a dumpy place.
Riki Mafune [00:53:28]:
It was.
Scott Cowan [00:53:29]:
It was kind of a dump. Yeah. It was kind of
Riki Mafune [00:53:31]:
It was it was,
Scott Cowan [00:53:33]:
a But you like okay. So in that era, in the dinette set era, you like to see you were more of a performance hall more Right. More or paramount. Okay. So after the Dinette set
Riki Mafune [00:53:45]:
because I spent so much time in the clubs. Right. I was like, I don’t want it. Right. Yeah.
Scott Cowan [00:53:50]:
Okay. So what did you do musically after the dinette set?
Riki Mafune [00:53:55]:
Well, I went to New York, thought a little bit about doing music there, but I had to get a job to support myself and I had no time to do music. I was exhausted. I was working at the Grand Hyatt New York on 42nd Park. Mhmm. 13 hour shifts, you know, non union job, hobbling home at night because I had to wear heels. I mean, I could jump around in heels on stage, but, you know, standing at a front desk at a giant hotel in New York City kicked my ass. So I went to LA, thought the same thing. I went and stayed with the Moberly’s and, great guys, and I just didn’t feel it.
Riki Mafune [00:54:39]:
I didn’t feel l a either.
Scott Cowan [00:54:40]:
Okay,
Riki Mafune [00:54:41]:
so I came back and that’s when I went back to school So I had a really long dry spell what I did to keep my toe in the pool was I did demo work, so if people were trying to sell their songs, I had a friend who was a engineer and he would hire me to sing vocals for these demos I did a few stints as a wedding singer which were I mean, I look back kind of at it sort of fondly, but at the time, I was just like, oh my god. Wind beneath my wings again. So and then, you know, the kindness of friends. I’ve always had friends that kept doing it, like, Christy, for example. Mhmm. She’s we’re sisters, and so I was able to work with her sometimes and just like I said, just keep keep either, you know, just keep my little sometimes it was just like the fingernail or the toenail of of my little toe in in the scene, but I always Edsitt era. Mhmm. Great
Scott Cowan [00:55:57]:
dance. Selahub Selahub Selahub era. Mhmm. Great bands. Sal Hut Sal Hut, an underrated music scene in late late seventies, early eighties.
Riki Mafune [00:56:07]:
You know, No rose colored glasses here. That was an amazing vibrant Yep. Music scene.
Scott Cowan [00:56:14]:
So we’ll put you on Scott. K. A lot. You you knew you know you know you knew the bands. Mhmm. You know, you might not have been friendly with everybody, but you Yeah. You knew the members and all this stuff. Out of all the bands, who should have made it?
Riki Mafune [00:56:31]:
Like Oh, gosh.
Scott Cowan [00:56:32]:
Who because I That’s a loaded I have opinions, and and, you know, I’ve made my opinions known through the years. But Right. I’m curious. Who do you think should have made because there was and there’s no right or wrong answer to that.
Riki Mafune [00:56:44]:
No. I know. I’m really thinking about it. I mean, nobody’s ever really quite asked me it in that way.
Scott Cowan [00:56:51]:
Well, the next question is to me, which is your favorite child? So just give her a thumbs. You know?
Riki Mafune [00:56:56]:
Well, I have one favorite oldest child, one favorite middle child, and one favorite youngest child. Oh. So anyway, who should have made it? You know, if I purely go on who worked so hard, I would probably say the Moberly’s are, and that’s that’s based on effort and work and songwriting skill and trying to hit both coasts and just hustling Mhmm. To get, you know, record
Scott Cowan [00:57:42]:
I
Riki Mafune [00:57:42]:
think there’s varying levels of that hunger that was in the scene.
Scott Cowan [00:57:46]:
Mhmm.
Riki Mafune [00:57:47]:
And, I mean, did they all want to make it in quotes? I don’t know Oh, okay. If they did. Okay. I mean, I think probably the cowboys at some point thought that they would do that. The heat’s thought that they would do that. I think they were more focused, and I’m not saying that hunger is a bad thing.
Scott Cowan [00:58:09]:
No. I’m not. No. No. There’s no I’m just your view of the scene is different in my view because you were you were on the stage during that era. Right.
Riki Mafune [00:58:18]:
And we’ve played with these guys.
Scott Cowan [00:58:20]:
And I was I was in the audience Yeah. Physically. Yeah. Mentally, not always there. But physically, I was there. Well, a
Riki Mafune [00:58:27]:
lot of us weren’t there mentally.
Scott Cowan [00:58:29]:
Right. But, you know and so I I look at it and I just think Seattle Seattle obviously was on the map during grunge. I mean, there was plenty of press in the world’s attention. The spotlight turned to Seattle during during that period of time. I also think though that the scene in Seattle a decade earlier Mhmm. Dare I I say might have been even better. Yeah. And that there were
Riki Mafune [00:58:59]:
Well, and there were a lot of, you know, there were a lot of like like, glam and punk bands too that came before us, like, in the seventies, like, the late seventies. And, you know, some other bands came out of that scene.
Scott Cowan [00:59:14]:
Sure.
Riki Mafune [00:59:15]:
And so these these people who I was always kind of the baby.
Scott Cowan [00:59:19]:
Well, you were though.
Riki Mafune [00:59:20]:
I was literally. You were
Scott Cowan [00:59:21]:
a little younger than
Riki Mafune [00:59:22]:
Yeah. Well, I mean, everybody most of these people were in their early to mid twenties, and, you know, so I was
Scott Cowan [00:59:29]:
In the early teens, if you Yeah.
Riki Mafune [00:59:30]:
17 when I started in the clubs. So, you know my perception of them, was that everybody was just really working hard to eat, and then maybe, you know, pay their rent
Scott Cowan [00:59:48]:
Mhmm.
Riki Mafune [00:59:50]:
And put out an album. And that hopefully, the there of us would kind of wait and kind of go, okay. Are they gonna hit? Are they gonna hit? So it’s it’s it’s kinda hard for me to pick one band because being so much ins an insider Mhmm. Not that like you said, not that they all them were my best friends or anything. And we were a little bit of an aberration because we were one of the the the big draws along with all the other dude groups.
Scott Cowan [01:00:29]:
Mhmm.
Riki Mafune [01:00:29]:
And so, even though everybody thought it was as a cover band, we actually did do some originals.
Scott Cowan [01:00:36]:
Mhmm.
Riki Mafune [01:00:37]:
Wrote songs for the band, but we wrote them specifically for that format.
Scott Cowan [01:00:41]:
Right.
Riki Mafune [01:00:42]:
And, but we were I wouldn’t go so far as to say we were the black sheep, but it was it was still a dude’s world. Rock and roll was still
Scott Cowan [01:00:54]:
Well, it Yeah.
Riki Mafune [01:00:54]:
It still is.
Scott Cowan [01:00:55]:
It still is. Yeah.
Riki Mafune [01:00:56]:
It still is. You know, I mean, it’s changed a bit. But I
Scott Cowan [01:00:59]:
mean, I remember, like, you know, they go back to when MTV popped. Right? Right. And a band like the go go’s. You know the comment was they can play guitars. I mean it was like like women were incapable of playing a musical instrument
Riki Mafune [01:01:11]:
And and exactly. I mean, Christy and I were and and so was Shelly. She was a great pianist. I mean, Christy and I were both musicians.
Scott Cowan [01:01:17]:
Right.
Riki Mafune [01:01:18]:
And but that’s not what we did in that band.
Scott Cowan [01:01:20]:
Right.
Riki Mafune [01:01:21]:
And so we were delegated to being chick singers and that’s kind of and, you know, we were, good. Mhmm. In fact, I thought we were really good and You were. But that was kind of the way we were seen. And and, you know, we had 5 guys behind us who were amazing. And in fact, we did a video. Mhmm.
Scott Cowan [01:01:44]:
I was gonna bring that up. And
Riki Mafune [01:01:47]:
when we got the storyboard for the video for the guy who was producing us, and they put some money into this video. It was on the MTV basement tapes, and the MTV was, like you said, very new. And, they wrote the guy side of the storyboard. Mhmm. And Christy and Shelly and I were like, what is this? And they said, well,
Scott Cowan [01:02:07]:
we’re gonna go down to LA, and we’re
Riki Mafune [01:02:08]:
gonna record and we were gonna, you know, film this video and we’ve Scott all this great, you know, surf footage from what’s that guy who did the all the ski and surf? He’s put out lots of movies. Warren Miller? Warren Miller.
Scott Cowan [01:02:23]:
Okay.
Riki Mafune [01:02:23]:
So his cinematographer that video, the b roll surf background or, like, the green screen background is Warren Miller footage.
Scott Cowan [01:02:37]:
Oh, wow.
Riki Mafune [01:02:38]:
And they had written the guys out, and we said, no. We’re not doing it. So they had to scrap well, they didn’t scrap at all, but they had to, like, write new parts in for the guys because we’re just like, absolutely not. Yeah. That was because they wanted to make us into something.
Scott Cowan [01:02:58]:
Right.
Riki Mafune [01:02:59]:
Wanted to commercialize us and package us.
Scott Cowan [01:03:01]:
Mhmm.
Riki Mafune [01:03:02]:
And, you know, for good or for bad, we weren’t down for it.
Scott Cowan [01:03:06]:
K. That’s okay.
Riki Mafune [01:03:10]:
Yeah. I don’t regret that decision at all.
Scott Cowan [01:03:13]:
So our conversation’s taken too like a you know? We’re taking 2 very diverse but but both of these paths are your paths.
Riki Mafune [01:03:22]:
Right.
Scott Cowan [01:03:23]:
So we’re gonna wrap this up, and I’ve got some Scott questions I ask my guest.
Riki Mafune [01:03:27]:
Sure.
Scott Cowan [01:03:28]:
K. But first stock question I’m gonna ask you today is what didn’t I ask you that I should have? What didn’t I cover that you would have hoped that we would have touched on?
Riki Mafune [01:03:40]:
I don’t know if I’d say I hoped we would have touched on it, but there were the the Seattle scene was extremely white Mhmm. Back then, and, there weren’t many singers in that actually very extraordinary scene or musicians in general, just a very small handful of POC.
Scott Cowan [01:04:05]:
Mhmm. And
Riki Mafune [01:04:09]:
I guess I just wanted to point that out that, you know, it for for me personally, I it was an interesting experience because I remember standing on stage and I heard these, servers talking talking about me and saying, is she even really Asian or does she just do her makeup
Scott Cowan [01:04:35]:
that way? And That’s awful, but it’s kind of
Riki Mafune [01:04:38]:
I know. I mean, I mean, I I’m, like, on stage and there’s they’re next to the bar, and I’m kinda looking at them like, I can hear you. Oh
Scott Cowan [01:04:47]:
my gosh.
Riki Mafune [01:04:47]:
Really weird.
Scott Cowan [01:04:48]:
Oh my gosh. Oh, okay.
Riki Mafune [01:04:50]:
So it’s not that I wish that you had brought that up, but that came to mind when you said that.
Scott Cowan [01:04:55]:
The only the only band that I can think of in my limited and it was a Tacoma band was Stripes. Right.
Riki Mafune [01:05:02]:
Right. Well, Glenn Oyabe in in one one iteration of the Moberly’s, Lulu in Fastbacks Box is half Japanese like me.
Scott Cowan [01:05:12]:
Okay.
Riki Mafune [01:05:13]:
And I’m not saying that there weren’t any, but there was so few.
Scott Cowan [01:05:16]:
It was a
Riki Mafune [01:05:17]:
a I mean, literally one hand. Cowan. You know?
Scott Cowan [01:05:20]:
Alright. So as we’re recording this now, we’re in Seattle, the umbrella that is Seattle. Right. Okay. I don’t know. Are we in the city limits?
Riki Mafune [01:05:29]:
Yes. We are. Okay. Well, if if if in in this day and age, yes, we are.
Scott Cowan [01:05:32]:
Okay. So here’s the question. Yeah. Where’s a great place for me to go get a cup of coffee? Here? In Seattle area. Where do you what coffee shop can you recommend to me in Seattle?
Riki Mafune [01:05:47]:
Oh goodness.
Scott Cowan [01:05:49]:
The look on her face is meaning that she’s processing too many choices, folks.
Riki Mafune [01:05:53]:
I am. Oh gosh. You know, my favorite place is still and it the the oh my gosh. The name is leaving me now. It’s in the it’s in the alley by behind the old new bookstore.
Scott Cowan [01:06:09]:
Mara?
Riki Mafune [01:06:09]:
No. No. No. No. Gosh. Maybe it’s not there anymore. Yeah.
Scott Cowan [01:06:13]:
I’ve been there years. So
Riki Mafune [01:06:15]:
Okay. Well, now if I was gonna go get a cup of coffee, I’d probably just make it at home because it’s too expensive. Okay. Alright.
Scott Cowan [01:06:24]:
Fair enough. So coffee at home, that’s I feel like we’re playing with the, you know, what’s that show where there’s, like, your name and then, like, there’s 10 things and, you know, or whatever it is. You know, it’s like, coffee at home. Alright. So next question is and is that with my wife? It’s about lunchtime. Okay. So where’s a great place for me to grab luncheons at?
Riki Mafune [01:06:42]:
Oh, gosh. Well, if you want Asian food this side of of of, international district Chinatown, I’d go to Chang’s Gourmet right there where the freeway and, on off ramp is to the express lanes.
Scott Cowan [01:07:00]:
Okay.
Riki Mafune [01:07:00]:
If oh, gosh. What are my faves? There’s a great Thai place right up the street. Okay. Alright.
Scott Cowan [01:07:11]:
There’s no wrong answers. It’s I ask these questions very well because it’s a way of getting a little local flavor.
Riki Mafune [01:07:17]:
Right. You know?
Scott Cowan [01:07:18]:
And I joke, please don’t say Starbucks, you know. I just
Riki Mafune [01:07:20]:
Oh god. No. No. No. No. No. I mean, there’s always dicks. You know?
Scott Cowan [01:07:26]:
The best hamburgers in
Riki Mafune [01:07:27]:
the world.
Scott Cowan [01:07:27]:
I mean, they’re terrible, but they’re awesome.
Riki Mafune [01:07:29]:
That’s you know, they are. They’re they’re not great hamburgers. They’re all dried out, but they’re it’s dicks. They do. Nothing tastes like dicks.
Scott Cowan [01:07:36]:
No. And they’re they’re awesome.
Riki Mafune [01:07:37]:
Okay. Yeah. You can tell me. I I I’m kinda I’m, you know, if I’m a low I’m I’m I’m a low maintenance kinda
Scott Cowan [01:07:44]:
gal. That’s their good good solid choices. Good solid choices. Okay. Last question. You have to answer this question completely.
Riki Mafune [01:07:51]:
Okay. Oh, god. That look in your eye. It’s just you you’re my soul.
Scott Cowan [01:07:55]:
I
Riki Mafune [01:07:56]:
know. I feel it.
Scott Cowan [01:07:57]:
Well, we’ve already answered that you have your your your favorite oldest, your favorite middle, and your favorite youngest. So this is that type of question. Okay. Cake or pie, and why?
Riki Mafune [01:08:07]:
This has changed for me.
Scott Cowan [01:08:09]:
Okay.
Riki Mafune [01:08:09]:
Alright. It used to be cake, but I didn’t like the frosting. So I would eat the cake and people would come up to me and go, you’re not going to eat your frosting. And I’m like, here, have it. Cowan. Now it’s pie because I love fruit.
Scott Cowan [01:08:26]:
K.
Riki Mafune [01:08:26]:
So I like fruit pies.
Scott Cowan [01:08:28]:
What’s what’s your favorite fruit pie?
Riki Mafune [01:08:30]:
Cherry.
Scott Cowan [01:08:31]:
Oh, okay.
Riki Mafune [01:08:32]:
But real cherry, not those funky ass ones
Scott Cowan [01:08:34]:
that
Riki Mafune [01:08:34]:
come in a can that are all jellied. Right. And I love pie crust. I love pie crust. I love a a flaky carb.
Scott Cowan [01:08:44]:
A flaky carb. There you go. That question, the answers that I get are just it’s so much fun for me to ask that question with people and some people have it instantly and you can you will not be able to argue with them their answer. Like, x can’t tell me, but y is good. And other people look at me like, what hand do I have to cut off?
Riki Mafune [01:09:12]:
Yeah. Exactly. What?
Scott Cowan [01:09:14]:
I can’t answer that question.
Riki Mafune [01:09:15]:
I mean, don’t get me wrong. I won’t refuse a piece of cake. Right. But if if if they’re sitting there and
Scott Cowan [01:09:20]:
Right. You can only have one. Right. Push comes to shove. Push comes to shove. Push comes to shove.
Riki Mafune [01:09:24]:
And and and also I think it’s because I’m a decent Cowan, and I’m a decent baker, but I make really shitty pies. So I appreciate a good pie. Okay. I can make a decent cake. I don’t know why, but my pie suck. Okay. So
Scott Cowan [01:09:41]:
Pie game sounds strong.
Riki Mafune [01:09:42]:
Yeah. My pie game is on. I got a pie hole, and I’m gonna fill it.
Scott Cowan [01:09:46]:
K. Thank you so much for taking the time.
Riki Mafune [01:09:48]:
Thank you so much.
