Bob Antone: Timberbeast Town

Scott talks with Washington native Bob Antone, musician and storyteller. Bob talks about his history growing up in North Bend, learning music from his time in musical kindergarten, and explains what the heck that is.

Bob has some interesting descriptions of how the local weather affects the creativity of locals and why so much of the local music is dark and brooding. Hint, if you live on the wet side of the mountains, you probably get it. He talks about picking up his family’s violin from the 1800s and beginning that journey. He now plays 13 instruments, and teaches many of those.

Bob describes how his family history affected his songwriting, incorporating legends and folklore reaching back into industrial America building railroads, mining, and interacting with nature. Bob lists musical influences such as Rachmaninoff, Eraser Head, and hobo songs among others for his inspirations.

Bob Antone Timberbeast Town Episode Transcript

Hello, friends, and welcome to the Exploring Washington State podcast. My name is Scott Cowan, and I’m the host of the show. Each episode, I have a conversation with an interesting guest who is living in or from Washington State. These are casual conversations with real and interesting people. I think you’re gonna like the show. So let’s jump right in with today’s guest. My guest today is Bob Antone. Bob was introduced to me by an old college roommate of mine who sent me this text message that says, hey, you need to check this out.

Scott Cowan [00:00:35]:
Well, I checked the link, couldn’t get the link because it was on next door, and I’m not a member of the neighborhood. So he’s blah blah blah blah. He sent me the stuff, and it was because There’s an article about the Oddfellows in Snoqualmie. It didn’t really interest me, but I listened to Bob’s music. So was it 10 years ago, Bob, that you Release this

Bob Antone [00:00:54]:
album? Yeah. So 20 years ago in 2002.

Scott Cowan [00:00:58]:
Okay. So so 20 years ago, Bob released this album, and he he played it at the Oddfields Lodge in Snoqualmie, Washington.

Bob Antone [00:01:05]:
Correct? Kind of. We had a tribute to loggers because Weyerhaeuser Mill,

Scott Cowan [00:01:12]:
that’s right.

Bob Antone [00:01:12]:
Made an announcement that they were shutting down the last of the timber crew. So we had a celebration that was covered in the Seattle Times. And then shortly after that celebration, I wrote and recorded, this album, the same year.

Scott Cowan [00:01:28]:
K. So that’s how I was introduced to Bob. So Bob and I get on the phone as I do with all my guests to Basically, break the ice, say hello, see, you know, see see if there’s a a good fit here for a conversation. And the next thing you know, Bob and I are talking, I don’t know, about an hour. It was supposed to be a 15 minute call. We end up on the phone for about an hour, and Bob’s got all these other areas of interest here. So this conversation, who knows where it’s gonna go, and that’s gonna be half the fun of it. But, Bob, why don’t you say hello to the audience, and you tell them what you want them to know about you?

Bob Antone [00:02:01]:
Alright. So, yeah, I live, in North Bend, Washington, which is 30 miles east of Seattle. My wife, Laura, and I, we have an art studio here, and we live right at the base of Mount Sinai. My family’s been in the Snoqualmie Valley for about a 100 years, And my dad was born at the Mill Hospital, Snoqualmie Falls, in about 1940. My grandmother was a nurse there, and my grandfather worked as a lumber grader at the old mill starting in the twenties Into the thirties. I grew up with storytelling, folklore. My mom’s side of the family goes back To, old Seattle 18/88. But we have relatives all over the Pacific Northwest, many of them in Washington state.

Bob Antone [00:02:53]:
And as you can imagine, have collected quite a few stories and just all kinds of nuggets of information that It’s it’s naturally occurring when you live in one area for a long time. So and many of them very strange, obscure, And, I’m glad to go into that if you are interested.

Scott Cowan [00:03:14]:
Yeah. So let me ask you. So you’re living in North Bend now. You grew up in Snoqualmie, Or did you grow up in North Bend?

Bob Antone [00:03:21]:
I grew up in North Bend. Yeah. Okay. I grew up in North Bend.

Scott Cowan [00:03:23]:
Mhmm. So have you lived your entire life in North Bend? Or did you did you ever when you were younger, did you go Get the bug to travel and go somewhere, or have you always stayed close to home?

Bob Antone [00:03:34]:
I’ve always Been close to home, but I have traveled. I’ve been to Ukraine one time. I’ve been to, you know, other states, other parts of the world.

Scott Cowan [00:03:42]:
Mhmm.

Bob Antone [00:03:43]:
But as far as where I call home, yeah, North Bend has always been, that location. I lived in Kwame, you know, basically the same 15 mile radius for, you know, a long time. But I’ve traveled.

Scott Cowan [00:03:56]:
Yes. Okay. So nothing’s changed in North Bend in Lifetime has it. I mean, it’s still the I’m kidding. It’s North Bend is, like lots of King County. The growth has been Staggering. Yes. Lots of lots of changes.

Scott Cowan [00:04:17]:
Lots of changes. So growing up there let’s let’s let’s start this way. So growing up there, when did you get into music?

Bob Antone [00:04:26]:
I come from a family of musicians. So my mom, sang and played guitar. You know, my dad sang in the choir there With her at the church, our Lady of Sorrows, and my siblings, all of them play music. We come from a history of musicians on both sides, So it came very naturally.

Scott Cowan [00:04:46]:
Yep. What was the 1st instrument you picked up as a

Bob Antone [00:04:50]:
kid? I was in musical kindergarten, and I played piano. Marilyn Haley, whose husband was the mayor of North Bend. She was my piano teacher, and I went to musical kindergarten when I was 5 years

Scott Cowan [00:05:02]:
old. What is musical kindergarten?

Bob Antone [00:05:05]:
Musical kindergarten. It was like daycare with music. Yeah. Basically.

Scott Cowan [00:05:12]:
So my mom tried to get me to play piano when I was a kid, and I she tried to teach me how to play piano, and it just I fought her every step of the way, and I kinda regret that now. But when I was, you know, 6, 7 years old, I I fought her every step of the way. Was that like that for you, or did you take to it right away? Did did did music did you connect with music right away?

Bob Antone [00:05:40]:
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And if you’ve ever been to this part of the world and part of the state, you know that, It’s very dark. It it’s, very, gloomy in the wintertime. And so, naturally, you go inside of yourself. Many people find a way to go insular, and they go into creative pursuits. It’s kind of like a distraction from the weather. You find that sunshine with Within yourself.

Bob Antone [00:06:06]:
And music is one of those ways. So a lot of the music that comes out of this area, you know, is very dark and brooding and

Scott Cowan [00:06:13]:
intense.

Bob Antone [00:06:13]:
Mhmm. And, naturally, People here have to survive. You know, it’s darker. I mean, you literally will drive to Issaquah, Bellevue, Seattle, and you’ll notice it’s like a whole different world. And meanwhile, in North Ben, it’s this windstorm, and, I mean, it feels like the apocalypse here. So it’s different climate in this little valley. Absolutely.

Scott Cowan [00:06:34]:
Okay. So you started with the piano. Mhmm. When did you branch out to other instruments?

Bob Antone [00:06:43]:
Well, there’s a family violin from 18/93. Oh. And it came from old Seattle, and my great grandfather played it. And so in about 1989, I wanted to start, playing the violin Or Fiddle. And I had seen the movie, Darby O’Gill and the Little People. You know that Disney film?

Scott Cowan [00:07:06]:
Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Bob Antone [00:07:07]:
And I just love the way He was playing the music, and those little people were doing backflips, you know, the leprechauns under the mountain. And I was like, I wanna be like him. So so that’s how I got started, with the fiddle or the violin. But, yeah. And that was in about 1989. So my first, yeah, my first teacher I had a teacher, and she was part of the Washington Old Time Fillers Association. Washington old time fillers, and they, you know, preserve traditions in Washington state, especially square dance, contra dance, Irish, You know, polkas, jigs, you name it, any kind of fiddle music played in the state. So she was a member of that.

Bob Antone [00:07:51]:
And then also, She was Eastern European, so I also had some exposure to Eastern European music, you know, folk music from, you know, Hungarian folk music, that kind of thing. So, yeah, that’s how I got started with that instrument.

Scott Cowan [00:08:09]:
Okay. So as of As we’re recording this, I can say 2023. How many instruments do you consider yourself proficient in?

Bob Antone [00:08:20]:
Well, I can play about 13 instruments, and then I I teach about 6 of those.

Scott Cowan [00:08:26]:
Wow. K. So what 6 what 6 are you teaching?

Bob Antone [00:08:31]:
So I teach piano. I teach guitar, ukulele. I teach violin, and I teach banjo as well. I also teach, voice or I, you know, coach, vocal coach. You know, I teach people how to sing. Okay. I think that’s about 6 so far. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:08:51]:
I think you’re I think you’re 6. Yeah. Basic math at Concord 6. Okay. Right on. So where are you teaching at?

Bob Antone [00:08:59]:
We have a studio here along North Bend Way, And we teach right out of our home.

Scott Cowan [00:09:04]:
Mhmm. And

Bob Antone [00:09:05]:
it’s it’s a wonderful job. I just love To, see someone who maybe has never discovered the music before and They become a

Scott Cowan [00:09:18]:
musician Mhmm.

Bob Antone [00:09:19]:
Because of me. You know, I feel so proud when I see, like, a, say, like, a 6 or 7 year old. You just, flourish and become, an artist. You know? Right. Suddenly, you’ve created this musician on planet Earth, and it’s just amazing. And I really enjoy it.

Scott Cowan [00:09:34]:
That’s very cool. And not boy, I I’m gonna break my promise already. I promise I wouldn’t ask anybody about COVID anymore. I’m just trying to put that in the rear view mirror. But How did your musical business navigate the pandemic?

Bob Antone [00:09:48]:
It actually fared pretty well. I was teaching at music and arts In Issaquah, I would commute to Issaquah, and I was a music teacher there for 3 years. And then when, 2020 March of 2020, everything was shut down. And so then my wife and I made the decision to convert everything to virtual online. And so a lot of people, You know, wanted to continue the comfort of music lessons. And so we were able to do that through Zoom and continue going. You know, I I think my numbers were cut in half, you know k. During that time.

Bob Antone [00:10:24]:
I think I went from, like, almost 30 to, you You know, around 15 or 12 or 15. Okay. But now we’re back up to, like, 40 I have, like, 40 students. Wow. And

Scott Cowan [00:10:35]:
yeah. Okay. That’s awesome. So it was I mean, it it well, that’s the thing about the pandemic that’s interesting Is listening to how people, have adapted their lifestyle, their businesses during a period where They didn’t have a choice. You you you you couldn’t meet students in person. We weren’t allowed to. You couldn’t if you had a restaurant, people weren’t coming into your restaurant. So they found other ways of, you know, serving their clients, which is I I find it to be inspiring when I hear how people have navigated it.

Scott Cowan [00:11:12]:
Nothing isn’t wasn’t super challenging because it absolutely was.

Bob Antone [00:11:16]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, go ahead.

Scott Cowan [00:11:18]:
So let’s let’s go so you started with the piano and with violin. Mhmm. When did you start writing your own music?

Bob Antone [00:11:31]:
Let’s see. I think I wrote my 1st songs when I was about 13 or 14. Okay. And I I wrote them on the guitar. You know, my mom is a guitar player. And all through my life, I mentioned my family and folklore and storytelling. I grew up listening to tales of, you know, hopping trains, living in hobo camps, logging camps. My dad would talk about working for the forest service, building trails on the dynamite crew.

Bob Antone [00:12:00]:
My grandmother would talk about being a nurse in the old days, and my aunts and uncles always had, stories and jokes to tell. We came I come from a very rich storytelling family. So a lot of my music was inspired by, I guess legends, local stories, legends, history, heritage, not only from my own family, but from the surrounding community. So Many of my early compositions were inspired by the mountains around here, legends, ancient legends surrounding Rivers and mountains and supernatural beings. My grandfather, used to share tales of invisible beings. Like, He would encounter almost like extraterrestrial or, alien beings when he was hopping trains. He called them his guardian angels. These invisible beings would save his life on many occasions.

Bob Antone [00:12:51]:
And he swore up and down. They were real. And, very interesting, he also saw Lights in the sky over the mountains. And so I grew up with so much of that lore that it naturally became part of, my musical storytelling all throughout my life up until today. So

Scott Cowan [00:13:11]:
So that’s where the the lyrical inspiration comes from. Musically, what was in as a teenager, what was inspiring you music with Sound, not lyric per se, but musically. Like, who we who are we gaining influence from at that point?

Bob Antone [00:13:30]:
Yeah. It’s a very, it’s a very interesting mix. My both of my sisters were, Playing piano at the same time. They were taking from missus Lundquist. I took from missus Lundquist as well. They were playing mostly classical music, but I remember hearing a lot of Rachmaninoff, and I heard a lot of, you know, Bach and Beethoven, Mozart. A lot of classical music was in the household. You know, every day after school, I’d hear both of my sisters practicing classical standards all the time.

Bob Antone [00:14:02]:
Right? So then on the other side of the coin, I would go over to my grandparents’ house. That’s where I am right now in the living room, and my grandfather would sing a hobo song. You know, he was singing the song from Hop and the Trains are working on the Railroad. So there was this rough folk music, this, you know You know, basically, Americana I don’t really like the word Americana, but I just said it. Oh, well. Whoopsie daisy. Anyway, yeah. So it was this mix of classical music and regional folk music.

Bob Antone [00:14:38]:
So, yeah. And like I said, my teacher was part of the Washington Old Time Fiddlers. Uh-huh. So I was just going back and forth. You could almost say like a musical schizophrenic. Wow. Okay. Yeah.

Bob Antone [00:14:51]:
And then some of the some of the jazz music, you know, From the Seattle area, some of the early jazz as well has an influence. And so we can talk more about, You know, the history of regional music if you want at some point.

Scott Cowan [00:15:07]:
But Sure.

Bob Antone [00:15:07]:
Okay. One of my answers, I guess. There you go.

Scott Cowan [00:15:09]:
So so it’s interesting because I I don’t think I’ve ever Talked to a musician who would claim that their, their musical influences was, say, Rachmaninoff and Hobo music. It’s it’s a very intriguing combination. That’s Yes. Yeah.

Bob Antone [00:15:30]:
It gets a little more weird as we go along here, because the other influence, Heavily influenced by avant garde, composers like John Cage. Of course, love David Lynch. Of course, love his film.

Scott Cowan [00:15:47]:
Mhmm.

Bob Antone [00:15:48]:
Work and TV show, I was a fan before 1989, before they came to film here for Twin Peaks, The pilot episode, I was already a fan of Eraserhead. Now Eraserhead

Scott Cowan [00:15:59]:
Oh my gosh.

Bob Antone [00:16:01]:
Okay. Absolutely. I watched I I think I watched that as, You know, when I was 13 years old, and I probably watched it 200 times. And the soundtrack, the mood, the darkness, The surrealism, the dreamlike nature of that movie really influenced me as well, other composers like John Cage. And so the avant garde element is very prominent as well. And sometimes during a song, you’ll hear, I will purposefully create, dissonant noise for maybe 5 or 10 seconds or less. It’s just a splash of that color of the avant garde will come in.

Scott Cowan [00:16:44]:
Yep. That’s really cool. So now I can say Rachmaninoff, Eraser head and hobo music. I don’t ever gonna speak to anybody that’s gonna have those 3 influences. That’s kinda cool. Alright. So as you as you evolved musically Mhmm. When did you start performing publicly?

Bob Antone [00:17:13]:
Okay. So I Performed publicly for the first time in 1989. And yeah. So I’ve been playing out publicly for over 30 years.

Scott Cowan [00:17:25]:
Oh, okay. And of all your 30 years, any memorable performances? Good or

Bob Antone [00:17:33]:
bad? Oh, boy. Memorable performances. Jeez. There’s so many. Okay. Here’s 1. I used to be in a band called The Tiny Kings. The lead singer, his name was Paul Hutzler.

Bob Antone [00:17:52]:
And Paul came from Baltimore, moved to Seattle. I think he still lives in Seattle. Been a few years since I talked with him, but we were playing at a location at Pike Place. It’s now called the rabbit box, But it used to be a lounge. And so I would get a little crazy, you know, during the performances. And Everybody knew that I had this very beautiful violin from 18/93 from my family, my great grandfather, that went back to old Seattle. Everybody knew that was the violin that playing. Right?

Scott Cowan [00:18:25]:
Mhmm.

Bob Antone [00:18:26]:
So back then, I used to have quite a sense of humor. And, you know, at one point in the I still have a sense to humor, but back then, it was a little a little little more wild, I would say. I I put that violin on the floor, And then I told everybody I was like, watch this, guys. And then everybody was like, oh my god. And then everybody thought that I was gonna stomp on my violin during the show, you You know, like some rock star would do, but I basically went and I jumped up in the air, and I saw everybody gasp, but I jumped over the violin. I didn’t I didn’t land on it. And then I go, just kidding.

Scott Cowan [00:19:03]:
See, I’d be terrified that I’d screw that up and land on the family Heirloom, I just, good. Good for you, but I just boy, I couldn’t see me doing that. That is kind of a a good stage gag, though. I could see myself being in the audience and you know? So

Bob Antone [00:19:20]:
alright. I was probably intoxicated at the time are partly intoxicated.

Scott Cowan [00:19:24]:
Somehow that doesn’t surprise me. But okay. I mean, because of the event. Let’s flash forward to 2023, 2022. Music collaborations, things like that, where are you drawing your influence today?

Bob Antone [00:19:42]:
Yeah. Well, it’s it is a accumulation of all of those things that we’ve already mentioned. Plus, Starting in around 2003, actually, 1997. But all through the years, I’ve also had contact with a lot of the local indigenous, music and language. And so added to the mix and, again, it’s a splash. Every once in a while, there’ll be a little splash of a Salish reference. And We’ve had a lot of, you know, ceremonies here at the house, you know, of all different tribes, including the Hmong people From Laos, we’ve had many, tribal members from all over the United States, including, we had a Navajo code talker or code talker that lived here for a week. So musically, over the years, I’ve also been exposed, and my children have been exposed to Tribal music, Native American music, and much of it Pacific Northwest.

Bob Antone [00:20:51]:
K. We don’t outright, Perform it. You know, I don’t perform Salish songs even though I know them. Mhmm. But at times, during the music, There will be a moment when I’m singing or someone’s singing or there’s there’s a melodic phrase, and I feel for a second, like, oh my gosh. I feel the Salish presence. Let’s just say that

Scott Cowan [00:21:13]:
for

Bob Antone [00:21:13]:
a split second or maybe 5

Scott Cowan [00:21:15]:
seconds.

Bob Antone [00:21:15]:
K. So today, we have a band called Tinkum Road. Now Tinkum Road is, all of those styles combined that we’ve talked about

Scott Cowan [00:21:26]:
already. Okay.

Bob Antone [00:21:28]:
I know it’s that’s crazy, but that’s what it is. Okay. And and Tankham Road is an exit off of Interstate 90. Yep. And Tinkem was a surveyor and is accredited by accidentally finding The route over Snoqualmie Pass back in the 18 fifties. He accidentally stumbled across this area. He didn’t mean to. He just kinda wandered through.

Bob Antone [00:21:53]:
And then he finished his journey through the Cedar River watershed, so Down, like, Maple Valley in that way. But he he stumbled over the past, and some say that there were 2, gentlemen of the local tribe that were watching him as he blindly stumbled through the woods, then they reported back to Falls City. And there was a longhouse there in Fall City, and, they told them that they saw this person wandering through the woods At what is previously a secret trail, I ninety used to be a secret trail, seldom used Walking trail. So Tinkham Road is all of those things, including Bigfoot, UFOs. We write songs that celebrate our strange History. The strange history of this state. We have the very first, men in black, sighting, the Maury Island incident. We have the very first UFO reported Maury Island incident and then also the more famous, Mount Rainier, Kenneth Arnold.

Bob Antone [00:23:01]:
Our band performs at, flying saucer festivals. I’m also a speaker, at Bigfoot events occasionally. And I’m also my wife and I are considered paranormal investigators. So the music Actually, it goes hand in hand. It’s like a soundtrack to regional culture. And, obviously, there’s So much here as you

Scott Cowan [00:23:28]:
know. Right. So, man, there’s a lot to unpack there. I

Bob Antone [00:23:33]:
know. I know.

Scott Cowan [00:23:34]:
Tinkum, a a question. Yeah. When Tinkum discovered the the way over the past, you know, where’s the was he heading east to west, or was he heading west to east? Because the way you just described the the the native natives went and reported to Falls City, which is West. So I’m curious. Was Tinkham coming from the East towards the West? Do we know?

Bob Antone [00:24:01]:
Yeah. So The last time I looked into that, from what I understand, he came up over what’s called the Cedar Pack Trail. We have Our drinking water from Chester Morse Lake used to be called Cedar Lake. Right above that

Scott Cowan [00:24:14]:
Mhmm.

Bob Antone [00:24:15]:
There is a trail that goes all the way to Yakima. They also call that the Yakima Pass. I believe, he came over that area. This is all up for speculation.

Scott Cowan [00:24:25]:
Speculation. Okay.

Bob Antone [00:24:27]:
Yeah. Because historians can’t agree. But the last time I looked into it and we were talking to some of the some of our colleagues, the indication is that he came up over the rim of what would be Chester Moritz Lake down, where exit 38 is, kind of above that, maybe exit 32. Just came down the hillside a little bit And then figured out, oh my god. I’m lost. He was coming, I believe, from east to west trying to find a route over Snoqualmie Pass. And that cedar pack trail was probably the most the optimum choice Okay. For a railroad and, for later a freeway.

Bob Antone [00:25:11]:
But so he came up over what’s now I ninety, and then was like, I don’t know where I’m at. The story goes he went back up to Chester Morris Lake down into what would become Rattlesnake Lake. And then the story goes, in the journals that I saw, the journals indicate that he went out the Cedar River watershed that way and out to Seattle that way. So, that’s the story that I was told. And I may Because there’s so much debate on that

Scott Cowan [00:25:45]:
Mhmm.

Bob Antone [00:25:45]:
I may have that wrong.

Scott Cowan [00:25:47]:
Well, we’re gonna quote them on it. Oh, see, it’s it’s it’s the the whole history of it is of the of the area is is fascinating in the stories that, people tell. Now I’m gonna lightly touch on a topic. I don’t wanna go into much detail because I think it is worthy of a a more in-depth conversation. But I would like you to elaborate a little bit. You you you’ve made the statement, And I’m paraphrasing, but the 1st UFO sighting in Maury Island. Right? Mhmm. Is it am I you know, can you elaborate on that?

Bob Antone [00:26:26]:
Yeah. So in 1947, they consider that the summer of the saucers. Now June 21, 1947. The story goes that Harold Dahl and his son, They were salvagers. They would salvage logs on Puget

Scott Cowan [00:26:47]:
Sound. K.

Bob Antone [00:26:48]:
They were out in a boat salvaging logs. And, suddenly, above their head, the story goes, there were 6 donut shaped objects. They look like donuts. Mhmm. K. They flew over the boat, and the center of these objects were glowing, almost like lava, and slag, was dropping out of the center of these objects hitting the water and creating quite a lot of steam because of of the heat. Mhmm. And as it flew over as these 6 objects Flew over their boat.

Bob Antone [00:27:24]:
It started hitting their boat and apparently burning holes to their boat. They had a dog on board, and the dog, unfortunately, perished Because some of those hot metal slag killed the dog, it injured either it was Harold’s or his son’s arm. I can’t remember which one at this time. I I think you can look this up online. Some of it’s online. Anyway, they made an emergency, return to Tacoma. And then the story goes that, a few days later, they got a knock on the door, and there was a man in black standing in there. And that is the very first popular culture reference to men in black is Washington State 1947.

Scott Cowan [00:28:08]:
Now I don’t know that Tommy Lee Jones was old old enough to be just kidding. Yeah. I bet. Yeah. That’s I’ve never heard that story ever ever heard that story. And so the fact that it takes place in In Puget Sound and Tacoma, that’s that’s mind bogg I know we I would like you to be back on and discuss that That whole genre, more. Mhmm. But we’re gonna go back to the whole music thing again.

Scott Cowan [00:28:41]:
So your band, though, your band, is it Am I am I being proper when I say your band kinda celebrates

Bob Antone [00:28:48]:
the the

Scott Cowan [00:28:51]:
Less understood aspects of our

Bob Antone [00:28:56]:
region? You could say that. The other way to the to also describe what we do is creating civic pride. Now every town, you know, has a history. Every neighborhood, you know, has a history. Every family has a history.

Scott Cowan [00:29:11]:
Right.

Bob Antone [00:29:12]:
And and things that they’re proud of. And musical expressions in Washington state, can create A huge amount of civic pride, especially when you can say, hey. This song came from this town. It was written in this year by this person, And you can’t find it anywhere else, or it’s very regional and very specific. And those are a lot of the songs that I like to and we like to focus on because it does create civic pride, and people can surround that song. I mean, if you think about, you know, songs from other states, Blue Moon of Kentucky. I mean, you you think about you know, that’s a good example. Just think about any song that represents a region and and regional pride.

Bob Antone [00:29:55]:
So we have a song called, Little Log Cabin in the Cascade Mountains, and it was written by Harold Weeks in around 1917. Now he married Hattie Taylor, and they were married out in front of the North Bend Washington train depot in around 1917 or so. And then he wrote that or bits of it on his, honeymoon with her, and her dad was the founder of North Bend Washington. Now Little Log Cabin is a great Tin Pan Alley Tune. You know? And we’ve been we’ve been playing it for for quite a few years. Now it was known, you know, 20 years ago, people had uncovered it. You know? Linda Allen in her book, Washington Folk Songs or Washington songs and lore, Linda Allen had included that song. But now our band has created such a, I guess, reintroduction so people can sing along.

Bob Antone [00:30:52]:
People know the song, like, the back of their hand. So it’s now living history. It’s con it’s back in the constant play, constant celebration of that song, You know, and it’s over a 100 years old, and it’s from right here, inspired by life in the Snoqualmie Valley in North Bend, Washington. So

Scott Cowan [00:31:13]:
Let’s talk about your band. How many members are in your band, and what instruments are being played?

Bob Antone [00:31:19]:
Boy, it started out with a few members And, literally, it was October of 2014. I did a solo performance at Cogelo Cellars in is Noqualmie. And the owner liked it, and he came up to me and he says, how would you like to play once a month here? I said, I’d love to. I shook his hand. And so ever since October of 2014, once a month, I would return, and each time, I would bring a few more musicians with me. So I started with 2, with 3, and 4. K. Then we had a core group of about 6 members.

Bob Antone [00:32:05]:
Excuse me. Keep coughing. Apologize. 6 members of the band. And then there were times where not all of the members could make it to the show. So then we would suggest or they would suggest substitute

Scott Cowan [00:32:20]:
players. Okay.

Bob Antone [00:32:22]:
So what happened where the substitute players came in and played, And then everybody loved the substitutes just as much as the core members. And so then we went from 6 to 7 to 8 to 9 to 10, 11 to 12 to 13 to 14. Oh my god. Now we’re we have, I think, 34.

Scott Cowan [00:32:41]:
Wait. 34?

Bob Antone [00:32:43]:
Well, they’re not regular musicians, but they’re we’ve had 34 musicians that have rotated in and out of our band. Wow. And everybody’s fine with it. And And it’s I know it sounds unusual. Usually, you have, you know, a band where you have band meetings, and everybody’s really serious in here at the table. And it’d Probably be a good idea if we had a bad meeting one of these

Scott Cowan [00:33:06]:
days. Yeah.

Bob Antone [00:33:07]:
Yeah. We just have this fluidity where people come and go, and everybody loves it, accepts it. I would say out of the 34 ish musicians, I wanna say a 3rd of those musicians are from the jazz jazz community, jazz

Scott Cowan [00:33:23]:
trained. Mhmm.

Bob Antone [00:33:24]:
I would say another 3rd of those musicians are Folk and bluegrass people, kinda like that, country folk bluegrass. And then we have other musicians who are classical musicians. Alright. And all of these musicians come together and create music. I know it sounds fantastic, but it is the truth. Yep.

Scott Cowan [00:33:44]:
When was the last time you played there? When was your last show?

Bob Antone [00:33:48]:
Our last show was last year, and That was in let’s see. We were it was in November. End of November. Yeah. The weekend after Thanksgiving.

Scott Cowan [00:33:59]:
Yep. Going back to the end of November of 2022, How many how many performers were on stage that night?

Bob Antone [00:34:06]:
Let me see. It was me, Ryan. It was It was it was 4 4 people. Okay.

Scott Cowan [00:34:16]:
Yep. And what instruments were you primarily using that evening?

Bob Antone [00:34:21]:
Okay. So Ryan Donnelly is a is a an amazing bass player, and he plays upright Stand up bass. He’s very much jazz trained, but he can play, you know, blues or bluegrass or country or anything. Mhmm. You can play classical music with the bow as well. Okay. He’s a very talented guy. So Ryan Donnelly, shout out to him.

Bob Antone [00:34:43]:
He likes to play Irish music too because he’s a Donnelly, So that’s good. We play a lot of Irish tunes as well. Yeah.

Scott Cowan [00:34:50]:
Okay.

Bob Antone [00:34:51]:
Ryan on upright bass. Then we had Jason Knight. Jason Knight played his guitar and sings. He owns, a school in Monroe Monroe, Washington. It’s called Alderleaf College. And they teach people how to forage for mushrooms and, you know, build a shelter, survive in the woods, track animals. And he’s a very well known guy, but he’s also an amazing musician. He was one of the founders of the Wilderness Awareness School, And he’s been featured on television, and he, you know, he was a consultant on Captain Fantastic.

Bob Antone [00:35:28]:
You know, he taught the actors how to How to pretend they knew how to survive in the woods for that film. And so he’s in a very amazing guy. He was on guitar. Let’s see. Oh, Then we have Camden Nary on the saxophone. Camden Nary, and he is from Seattle. He lives in Seattle. He’s a jazz player.

Bob Antone [00:35:53]:
He plays tenor and soprano sax. What I really like about him is when he plays, well, I love both instruments, but the soprano sax, especially when we’re playing, turn of the century or Tin Pan Alley or prohibition era, you know, stylings, that soprano sax is Perfect. Because it sounds like a clarinet. It’s a higher end, sax. So and he’s a great player.

Scott Cowan [00:36:19]:
Just a What were you what instrument were you playing?

Bob Antone [00:36:22]:
I was playing guitar, and I was playing the violin and the fiddle. Yeah. And so and and I was singing as well.

Scott Cowan [00:36:29]:
Alright. Now I’m gonna tax your memory. K. You have a rotating crew of almost 3 dozen people. Mhmm. You had 4 people the last show. Mhmm. What’s the biggest number you’ve had perform on stage?

Bob Antone [00:36:49]:
Oh, boy. Let’s see. I think, the biggest number we’ve had At a performance was about 12.

Scott Cowan [00:36:59]:
Okay.

Bob Antone [00:37:00]:
Alright. And then sometimes it’d be 8, and then maybe there’d be a group of 4 that would come up, And then there’d be 6, and then we kinda rotate and switch ensembles up during the 3 hours.

Scott Cowan [00:37:11]:
Yeah. You’re playing for 3 hours. Okay. Yep. That’s alright. Now, like, going back to the very beginning of our conversation or the the intro was that I was introduced, You had released an album in 2002. Mhmm. Let’s talk about that.

Bob Antone [00:37:30]:
Okay. Yeah. So Timberbeast Town is a crazy album, and it’s not for everyone. A lot of people love it. It’s but the reason that I rereleased it, there were so many people that came up to me and said, I really wanna hear that album again. Mhmm. I lost my copy. You know, my CD got scratched.

Bob Antone [00:37:53]:
My CD player is broken. I lost your CD. I used to listen to that every day. In fact, I remember, a few years after I released it, I met a family in Yakima. Here, we’re gonna go to Yakima for just a second. Met this wonderful family in Yakima at the Yakima McDonald’s. And, like, my boys were playing in the the, you know, the play area, and we just started talking. And I gave them one of my CDs.

Bob Antone [00:38:23]:
So then all you know, a couple years later, god, was it 5 or 6 years later? I got this message on Myspace. Oh my god.

Scott Cowan [00:38:32]:
I just said Myspace.

Bob Antone [00:38:38]:
And it was this young lady, and I was like, who is this person? And I just I saw this beautiful smiling face, this beautiful young lady, and She’s she was saying, hey. I’m Carmen. And and then she said, I’m a really big fan of your music. Do you remember you met my parents in Yakima In, you know, in 2003, and I was like, oh my gosh. And at this time, I think she was 18 or 19 when she reached out to me, and I was like, wow. Okay. I was confused. I was really confused.

Bob Antone [00:39:02]:
Anyway, So then I I I remembered, oh, that’s right. It was Diane. And these folks are from the Yakama Nation, Yakama tribe, and Ended up, you know, ended up having a nice long conversation. And then, we worked with, it was a program for for youth with Nike designing shoes, and Carmen and her family were involved in that kind of thing. So But they so Diane, the one that I met in Yakima, she every Sunday, she told me every Sunday, she would put on the CD, and it was cleaning day. And so this family, including Carmen and her brother and mom, they would clean the house from top to bottom, and they would listen to Timberbeast down all the way through. It was their ritual every Sunday. They would listen to my albums, and I thought, wow, that is just so interesting.

Bob Antone [00:39:58]:
So, oh, so interesting. So a lot of people like that people that were like, hey. I used to listen to your album every day. They’re like, you need to rerelease it. I was like, okay. You know, and now that I listen to it again, you know, I’m my ear is way more refined. And I have had so much time with Musicians that are absolutely, you know, 4 or 5 times better than I am, and I’ve refined my ear over many, many years. This is 20 years ago.

Bob Antone [00:40:24]:
So when I listen to that album, you know, I, as a critic of myself, can pick it apart and say, oh, I wish I could’ve done that. But, oh, boy. I wish oh my god. Yeah. But the thing is, the the heart of the matter is when you have something, an expression and I encourage all musicians and artists, Just release it. Just do it. Just do it. Even if it’s not absolutely a 100% perfect, if it’s 90% there, release it because It needs to be heard.

Bob Antone [00:40:53]:
And in order to grow as as a musician, as a human being, you need to put your mistakes out there. You need to release The material. You know? Some people sit on something for years because they can never they feel like it’s never good enough. It’s never good enough. So I was like I was like, I’m gonna just release this album. I know it’s raw. I know it’s crazy. I know some of the lyrics are, like, offensive.

Bob Antone [00:41:16]:
They are Nowadays, 20 years ago, you know, maybe it wasn’t as offensive. But 20 years later, some of these lyrics, you know, boy, If they played them on the radio, they would it would be, probably, it would be a problem. It would be a problem. There’s some colorful language. Let’s just put it that way.

Scott Cowan [00:41:32]:
Okay.

Bob Antone [00:41:33]:
So there you go. That’s I mean, and it makes sense because we’re talking about the we’re talking about timber community Nervous breakdown. It’s like the logging towns of Snoqualmie and North Bend having a complete nervous breakdown. That’s really what the album is.

Scott Cowan [00:41:51]:
Alright. So As an here’s a question for you as an artist. So you mentioned you mentioned, you know, you your your ear is more refined. You’ve been playing music for 20 more years. I’m going to guess that you’re a A better muse technically, a better musician today than you were 20 years ago. You’re okay. You’re more at the technical aspects of it. Right?

Bob Antone [00:42:15]:
Yeah. I would say yes. I have more refinement,

Scott Cowan [00:42:17]:
for sure. Okay. Yep. Mhmm. Would you ever consider rerecording a past project.

Bob Antone [00:42:28]:
Oh, yeah. No. Yeah. Absolutely. Taking a song that was written and recorded, You know, say, 15, 20 years, 25 years ago, then revamping it. Well, maybe

Scott Cowan [00:42:39]:
not maybe okay. You you said when you listen to it, you can pick it apart. Mhmm. So what about and I I, you know, I’ve talked to a lot of musicians. I’ve never really asked this question. And it is So you’ve got this song, and you’ve listened to it 20 years later, and you’re like, oh, I wish I would have done this, or I should have done that, or, oh, that could have been played better here. From an artistic standpoint, is it right to rerecord something? And I there’s no judgment. I mean, that’s not it’s not a black or white answer.

Scott Cowan [00:43:12]:
But, I mean, I guess the question is if you pick 1 of your songs, would would you ever think about Recording it today using contemporary techniques that are available that you didn’t have 20 years ago.

Bob Antone [00:43:26]:
Oh, yeah. No. And and, in fact, we’ve done that. So Tinkum Road, actually, over the years it’s Tinkum Road is now eight 8 years old. K. Over the years, we actually took songs or I took songs that were from Timberbeastown, this album we’ve been talking about. And we redid that, and we rerecorded them. So if you listen to our albums, it echoes, you know, some of these songs that have been recently rereleased.

Bob Antone [00:43:52]:
So the the rereleased are like the original raw, you know, versions. Mhmm. So, yes, Tahoma is one of them. It’s about Mount Rainier. We have Tomorrow Brings Another, which is the name of our album, Tinkum Road. That came from Timberbeast Town. So what’s happening is that Beyond music, all of these elements create a world. They create a a place to visit.

Bob Antone [00:44:19]:
And you have characters. Just like in a film, you have names of characters. And these names keep coming up. And just like Andy Warhol would take an image and then print it, you know, several times in in different colors slightly different

Scott Cowan [00:44:34]:
colors. Mhmm.

Bob Antone [00:44:35]:
This music that we’re talking about in this episode It’s very much like that where characters and names and phrases and melodic phrases, they keep reappearing, but They’re somewhat altered and changed and tweaked, and and they become their own world. They become their own language. It becomes A culture in itself. And that’s what’s exciting to me is after 30 plus years, it’s beyond, you know, being music. It’s now A cultural formation or an association. You know, I have slang that comes that’s regional that we use in our Are, you know, lyrics

Scott Cowan [00:45:13]:
Mhmm.

Bob Antone [00:45:14]:
That you find in Washington history, and it just keeps coming up.

Scott Cowan [00:45:18]:
Alright.

Bob Antone [00:45:20]:
I know it’s a lot, man. I I can barf out a lot of info.

Scott Cowan [00:45:24]:
You you really no. No. Don’t apologize. You really can. And and I think what I’m gonna do Is I’m gonna, like, pump the brakes, gonna ask you some of my stock questions I ask all my guests, and we’re gonna wrap this episode up because I got a couple other ideas where I’ll talk to you with the we’re not recording and then get you back on or at least try to get you back on. I won’t make you commit publicly to saying yes at the moment.

Bob Antone [00:45:48]:
Alright. Okay.

Scott Cowan [00:45:49]:
So here’s my here’s my stock questions I’d love to ask all my guests. Where’s a great place to get a cup of coffee in North Bend?

Bob Antone [00:45:59]:
Alright. It’s a very, very good question. Now if you’re a David Lynch fan or a Mark Frost, Twin Peaks fan, You can get a damn fine cup of coffee at Tweed’s Cafe, also known as the Double R Diner

Scott Cowan [00:46:16]:
Mhmm.

Bob Antone [00:46:17]:
Or the Marti. When I was a kid, it was called the Marti Cafe. You can get a damn fine cup of coffee there. And, most of, Many people that visit the area, tourists will find themselves in that cafe, and it’s on the corner of North Bend Way and Bendigo Boulevard. Mhmm. Other than that, other places to have a really, really, really good cup of coffee, I would say Aroma Coffee in Faltz City, which is about 15 minutes away from here, 10, 15 minutes. Aroma Coffee. And they are situated in a historic building that used to be the very first, Phone operator.

Bob Antone [00:47:02]:
Oh, okay. Yeah. And yeah. For the entire town, there used to be an operator there, Just like in little house in the prairie where they’re, you know, switching people in and out of the phones.

Scott Cowan [00:47:13]:
Yeah. Listening heat on the conversations. Yeah.

Bob Antone [00:47:15]:
Okay. Absolutely. Yep. Alright. Where else? Oh, go ahead.

Scott Cowan [00:47:18]:
I’m sorry. So part 2 of the question is, I’m traveling I’m I’m I’m showing up to North Bend around lunchtime. Where’s a great great place for lunch?

Bob Antone [00:47:29]:
Oh my gosh. Okay. So the Iron Duck, it’s on the corner, right across from the Sure Shot Pub, also known as the Sure Shot

Scott Cowan [00:47:41]:
Tavern Mhmm.

Bob Antone [00:47:42]:
Along North Bend Way. So if you’re at Tweed’s And you walk along the sidewalk toward the east on the south side of North Bend Way. On the corner there, is called the Iron Dock Restaurant. Great food, great atmosphere. Everything about it is awesome. Plus, It is very haunted. It’s got

Scott Cowan [00:48:05]:
ghosts. Okay. Yep. Alright. Last question. I have a hunch I know what your I don’t I have a hunch I know what your answer might be, but I’m gonna and I’ll admit if I’m right or wrong once you answer the question. Cake or pie, and why?

Bob Antone [00:48:25]:
Oh, boy. Well, I know that you I know that the predictable answer. I’m just gonna tell you what the predictable answer

Scott Cowan [00:48:36]:
would be.

Bob Antone [00:48:38]:
Pie, cherry pie, obviously. You already figured that one out.

Scott Cowan [00:48:41]:
That’s that’s okay. So but now for you, truthfully, Bob, cake or pie,

Bob Antone [00:48:49]:
and why? I’m gonna say I’m gonna say pie, but I’m gonna say lemon meringue because Lemon meringue pie, my grandmother, Ella Anton, made the most amazing lemon meringue pie. My mother also Echo that skill, and there you

Scott Cowan [00:49:04]:
go. Okay. That question I stole that question from another podcast host, And I love people’s debate. You can watch them debate mentally with themselves. It’s it’s so it’s a simple question, but the answers get Really conflicted. Alright. So for this episode regarding your music, What didn’t I ask you that I should’ve?

Bob Antone [00:49:39]:
I really have no idea.

Scott Cowan [00:49:41]:
Okay. That’s great. Part 2 of that question or now For you, where can people find your music and find out more about you?

Bob Antone [00:49:54]:
Alright. Yeah. So on YouTube, if you, look up Tinkem Road, just like The Exit. There are 2 full albums available on YouTube. You can find that on, Apple Music as well. You can also find it on Spotify. Yeah. Timberbeast Town, this crazy, You know, the album that we were discussing can be found on Bandcamp.

Bob Antone [00:50:18]:
So if you just simply Google Timberbeast Town, Bob Antone, And it will come right up or go to Bandcamp, and you can download the entire album. But, I have a YouTube channel as well, Bob Antone or Northwest Roots. And on that channel, I post, You know, original songwriting, but also obscure, regional music and unusual music that people might enjoy.

Scott Cowan [00:50:47]:
Awesome. I’ll put links to the to those in the show notes so that people can just click on them too. So to try to make it easy. So I wanna thank ask you Okay. Let me

Bob Antone [00:50:58]:
ask you a question real quick. Yeah. Sorry. I didn’t mean to interrupt you. That was a little awkward, wasn’t it?

Scott Cowan [00:51:03]:
That’s okay. It’s a casual conversation over coffee. It’s supposed to be

Bob Antone [00:51:08]:
awkward. You’ll edit it out later anyway. No.

Scott Cowan [00:51:10]:
No. Probably not.

Bob Antone [00:51:15]:
So out of all of the subjects that we discussed, as the host and, what was the most interesting to you Of what we discussed.

Scott Cowan [00:51:25]:
So a couple of things stand out to me, and and and that doesn’t mean that other things didn’t stand out. But 2 things stood out to me. Number 1, the the The musical influence of of Rachmaninoff and the hobo music, that just seems not Typical. That’s not the right word, but it just a very unlikely pairing of musical influences, k. Which I find to be very intriguing. Number 2, I wanna know which direction Tinkum was going. I wanna know if he’s going east or he’s going west, and your your explanation didn’t answer it for me, which is okay because you don’t know. But the point is there’s some like, I wanna know, was he coming from the Yakima side? Was he coming from Seattle towards Yakima? Or, you know, I mean, what let’s talk because you’re you described it as a, a secret trail that locals were using.

Scott Cowan [00:52:22]:
Right? They and they report back. And I’m curious, Not that we can ever go back in history, right, because we can’t. But I’m curious which direction was this guy going?

Bob Antone [00:52:33]:
Oh, he he was going east to west. And and the people that, Yeah. And the people that reported back to the longhouse, they were they were part of the native community. So they were they were in Western Washington and Falls City.

Scott Cowan [00:52:45]:
Right. So they saw him as he was approaching Fall City then.

Bob Antone [00:52:49]:
Yeah. The the folklore the folklore is that these 2 Native American warriors We’re watching from the brush, and he had no idea that they were there. And they reported back to their chief and said they saw a strange man wandering. And and so yeah. That’s the story that I was told, and and that’s folkloric. Sure. You know? No. And some of it I saw in writing, But some of it’s folk work.

Scott Cowan [00:53:11]:
So It’s just it’s just the the history of the area, the history of the region, it’s it’s full of these stories. The The Maury Island piece is is fascinating. The the thing that you mentioned, and I am purposely not talking about it because I wanna get you back on to talk about it. But the other mentioned that you you you you know, you threw out the word Bigfoot, and that’s an intriguing Story about the area, about the region, the The the what I know very little about it. And Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Yeah. But what I do what I am aware of, and this is, you know, Coming from a a position of limited knowledge.

Scott Cowan [00:54:01]:
Mhmm. This is a very polarizing topic.

Bob Antone [00:54:05]:
Oh my gosh. You are correct on that.

Scott Cowan [00:54:10]:
And I I’m very curious about hearing about it. I Mhmm. You know, we’ve I mean, I’ve I’ve spent my entire life living in Washington state, grew up Grew up in the kind of the Puyallup area by by Mount Rainier, if you will. You know, I it it’s been in the periphery. It’s whispered in the winds, if you will. Right? And it’s intriguing. 1 of my my the producer of the show has talked about it with me. You know? Hi, Todd.

Scott Cowan [00:54:38]:
How are you doing? And, you know, I would love to have you back on. And I was gonna mention this when we weren’t recording, but what the heck? We’ll just do it. You know, I would love to have you back on to talk more about the the the paranormal. The Yeah. I just I’ll leave it at that because I think, especially as it relates to our region and to Washington state, I I I am very confident that there’s an amazing story or group of stories that could be

Bob Antone [00:55:12]:
shared. Oh, yeah. For sure. And then, You know, leading up to that or let’s see. I I could mention really quick. In April, I’m gonna be a speaker at a very special Bigfoot event in Chehalis. What? Washington.

Scott Cowan [00:55:29]:
What what go ahead. Let’s elaborate on that. What’s the what’s it called? Do you know when it

Bob Antone [00:55:34]:
is? Yeah. It’s April 15th, I believe. April 15th, which I believe is also Tax day.

Scott Cowan [00:55:40]:
Oh, yes. Thank you for reminding

Bob Antone [00:55:42]:
us. Great. So, anyway, yeah. So that’s gonna be in Chehalis, Washington, the Lewis County Historical Museum. It the event benefits them financially. There are gonna be speakers presenting information in connection with The Patterson Gremlin film and other, tales of hoaxers. So there’s gonna be a discussion at this event talking about the difference between what it is clearly a hoax and what is not a hoax. And there is evidence that will be presented, and the revelation that day will be so huge.

Bob Antone [00:56:25]:
It’s gonna be so huge because that Patterson Gimlin film is so famous. It’s from Northern California, but it stretches into Washington Because as you know, Bob Gimlin is from Yakima, and so is Roger Patterson. They’re both from Yakima. And I met and we met. I’m not gonna go too much further, but we met Roger Patterson’s grandson, this past summer 2022. So there’s gonna be some major, Major announcements, and I’m gonna do a presentation, about, our local neighborhood here And the difference between what I can say confidently, is a hoax and what is not a hoax When it comes to Bigfoot. So it’s gonna be a pretty solid presentation all

Scott Cowan [00:57:11]:
around. Is there an online Website for this this event, do you

Bob Antone [00:57:18]:
know? What I would do is I would I would, look up Lewis County Historical Museum. It has not been announced officially yet, but I have the flyer. April 15th is is the The set date, and but he hasn’t started the the director has not started advertising or released it to public yet. It’s okay for me to mention it lately. Okay. It’s fine. Okay. But, yeah, I don’t think they’ll find anything yet.

Bob Antone [00:57:44]:
But in a few months within a few months, you will see, on their website, the Lewis County Historical Museum website.

Scott Cowan [00:57:51]:
Yeah. Well, Bob, thank you for spending some time with me today. I appreciate it. I am looking forward to doing even more listening to your to your Your music, I’ve enjoyed everything that I’ve listened to so far, and I’m glad my friend, Ken, thought enough of what you Somehow, I don’t wanna say you posted it, but somehow it was you know, this introduction was completely because of You know, I don’t know that I would’ve when I would’ve stumbled across you under normal circumstances. So it’s many thanks to my friend, Ken Kadu, for doing that. And then Oh. I do you know Ken Kadue? He lives he lives in North Bend. He’s he’s a new resident of North Bend.

Bob Antone [00:58:34]:
You know what? I do not know Ken Kadue. I’d like to meet him. But, again, that’s one thing that I I think is very, flattering is when a stranger, someone you don’t know personally, likes your music or likes your art. It’s definitely a a compliment. So I thank you both.

Scott Cowan [00:58:51]:
Yeah. Well, thank you for being on the show.

Bob Antone [00:58:55]:
Oh, I had a lot of fun. I hope, I hope you did too.